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Godspeed. These companies have proven themselves morally reprehensible time and time again. I'd love to see serious criminal charges for the executives though

Godspeed. These companies have proven themselves morally reprehensible time and time again. I'd love to see serious criminal charges for the executives though.

HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
Why is this marketing worse? It's all mind hacks.
bongobongo 7y ago
Serious question: why just the executives? I know everybody needs a job to get by, but there’s an expression for getting by by getting kids hooked on harmful drugs: being a shitbum drug dealer. There should be some consequences when it comes to earning your living by damaging the health of children.
- liability 7y ago
  > Serious question: why just the executives I never said 'just', but you've got to start somewhere and there is nowhere better to start than at the top. When people lower down the food chain are the first targets, there is a nasty tendency for the matter to stop there. (First rule of plumbing: shit flows downhill...)
  - bongobongo 7y ago
    Can’t disagree with you there. I don’t know how these people sleep at night. The taint should extend to any firm that consults for them. I don’t care how many adults really do use them as cessation devices, they are clearly intended to be used by children.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    I mean - I feel like it's textbook that you start low and then roll the higher ups. But of course that would never be done seriously in a corporation.
Pinckney 7y ago
Then call your representative and tell them to pass a law that makes e-cigarettes illegal.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  So kids go back to smoking non-e cigarettes like in the good ole days?
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    In recent years, teen vaping rates have increased far more than teen smoking rates have dropped. https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/tim-kaine/has-vaping-wiped-out-progress-reducing-youth-smoki/ https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t...
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      That still doesn’t excuse making e-cigarettes illegal and not normal cigarettes as well. Also, you have to compare against marijuana and other drugs as well if we are accounting for what teens are doing to act out.
      - solveit 7y ago
        Sure it does, we (should) decide policy based on what is possible, not what adheres to some God-given set of moral consistency conditions. A ban on e-cigarettes is probably politically feasible, a ban on cigarettes is not. Anyway, I still disagree with banning e-cigarettes because it seems they're so much less harmful than regular cigarettes that even if the marketing was so effective that everyone started vaping, I'm not sure the harms would outweigh the gains from smokers quitting.
      - jakelazaroff 7y ago
        Maybe, but the point is that banning e-cigarettes won't result in all the e-cigarette users going back to normal cigarettes. E-cigarettes have grown the market, not simply captured a subset of existing smokers. I'd also point out that the problem isn't "acting out". It's the act of smoking cigarettes itself, which is objectively harmful. Marijuana is much safer. E-cigarettes seem to be as well, but the jury is still out.

Godspeed. These companies have proven themselves morally reprehensible time and time again. I'd love to see serious criminal charges for the executives though.

HNcantBtrustd 7y ago

Why is this marketing worse? It's all mind hacks.

bongobongo 7y ago

Serious question: why just the executives? I know everybody needs a job to get by, but there’s an expression for getting by by getting kids hooked on harmful drugs: being a shitbum drug dealer. There should be some consequences when it comes to earning your living by damaging the health of children.

liability 7y ago
> Serious question: why just the executives I never said 'just', but you've got to start somewhere and there is nowhere better to start than at the top. When people lower down the food chain are the first targets, there is a nasty tendency for the matter to stop there. (First rule of plumbing: shit flows downhill...)
- bongobongo 7y ago
  Can’t disagree with you there. I don’t know how these people sleep at night. The taint should extend to any firm that consults for them. I don’t care how many adults really do use them as cessation devices, they are clearly intended to be used by children.
- MiroF 7y ago
  I mean - I feel like it's textbook that you start low and then roll the higher ups. But of course that would never be done seriously in a corporation.

Pinckney 7y ago

Then call your representative and tell them to pass a law that makes e-cigarettes illegal.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
So kids go back to smoking non-e cigarettes like in the good ole days?
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  In recent years, teen vaping rates have increased far more than teen smoking rates have dropped. https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/tim-kaine/has-vaping-wiped-out-progress-reducing-youth-smoki/ https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t...
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    That still doesn’t excuse making e-cigarettes illegal and not normal cigarettes as well. Also, you have to compare against marijuana and other drugs as well if we are accounting for what teens are doing to act out.
    - solveit 7y ago
      Sure it does, we (should) decide policy based on what is possible, not what adheres to some God-given set of moral consistency conditions. A ban on e-cigarettes is probably politically feasible, a ban on cigarettes is not. Anyway, I still disagree with banning e-cigarettes because it seems they're so much less harmful than regular cigarettes that even if the marketing was so effective that everyone started vaping, I'm not sure the harms would outweigh the gains from smokers quitting.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      Maybe, but the point is that banning e-cigarettes won't result in all the e-cigarette users going back to normal cigarettes. E-cigarettes have grown the market, not simply captured a subset of existing smokers. I'd also point out that the problem isn't "acting out". It's the act of smoking cigarettes itself, which is objectively harmful. Marijuana is much safer. E-cigarettes seem to be as well, but the jury is still out.