7 ms·

It is 2019, and it is quite surprising - and disappointing - that we STILL haven't universally solved the means to easily, securely, and (yes, I'll use this ter

It is 2019, and it is quite surprising - and disappointing - that we STILL haven't universally solved the means to easily, securely, and (yes, I'll use this term again) universally share files. I wish we could share files in a peer-to-peer fashion securely without hindrance of mobile platform, nor blockage of network MiTM, etc. </sigh>

Fickry 7y ago
What do you expected from a company who even cant made a phone with simple bluetooth file sharing
- big_chungus 7y ago
  Bluetooth file sharing works fine on just about every phone I've used. Bluetooth just isn't built for high-bandwidth applications like this, meaning while it's fine for a photograph, you will have issues with larger transfers. That's not a flaw in the implementation, bluetooth just isn't built for high transfer speeds. It is built to transfer enough data and operate at low power, not to be just another wireless NIC.
  - Fickry 7y ago
    Its maybe slow. But still perfectly work for cross platform sharing file, from old symbian, different computer, printer, speakers...
skrowl 7y ago
https://files.google.com/ https://files.google.com/ is a standard and it works on the vast majority of phone sold this year, by every manufacturer except Apple. Checks all 3 of peer-to-peer, secure, no MiTM network blockage. It's only 11MB. Many popular file manager apps on android have peer-to-peer xfers as well, via WiFi direct, etc. EDIT - As people are pointing out this isn't universal because it doesn't work on Apple devices or desktops / laptops, but it's as close as I can think of currently.
- ahmedfromtunis 7y ago
  Almost. People need to install the app to use its transfer functionality, and it does not work with computers. We're still far from the universal, no-install solution that should've existed for so many years now.
  - iforgotpassword 7y ago
    Well, no install basically means every OS vendor needs to ship a proper and compatible implementation (hah yes that'll surely happen) or you basically need something web based which means it needs an internet connection for bootstrapping.
- thedanbob 7y ago
  > except Apple I wouldn't exactly call that universal...
  - skrowl 7y ago
    Yep, Apple's market share is around 11%, so only 89%(ish) of smartphones. Not 100%, and doesn't include desktops / laptops / etc. Still, about 8x better than AirDrop!
    - untog 7y ago
      Anything that excludes 11% of the market isn't universal at all though, which was the OP's original request.
      - lostgame 7y ago
        Especially when that 11% is a particularly vocal and active part of the market.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      It doesn't matter to me how many Android users there are globally when we're talking about short range file transfers. I'm not bluetoothing files to somebody in India. The US's market share split is more like 55% Android and 45% iOS, so anything that doesn't support both platforms is going to fail half the time here.
staticvoidmaine 7y ago
Rather than the google solution suggested by a sibling comment, I’d suggest a look at send.firefox.com.
- ahmedfromtunis 7y ago
  They don't offer the same solution; Google's works on a peer to peer manner, no internet needed. Firefox's is more like Wetransfer.
- badumtss 7y ago
  I just wish they'd hurry up and make the android app useable. I signed up for the beta and was pretty disappointed as my uploads were cancelled if my screen locked or, horribly enough, rotated ...
  - lostgame 7y ago
    I never understood coders who don't separate UI threads and network calls - which is exactly what it sounds like is happening, here.
  - _underfl0w_ 7y ago
    Willing to bet their devs came from iOS. That would explain the android-specific quirks.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    Android is Linux, you can always just install it the normal way and use it from a terminal. Maybe that's what you mean by unusable (a terminal isn't very user-friendly, but it solves the file transfer / app availability problem). If I remember correctly, you can configure (I don't know what the default is) to power save or even turn off WiFi on Android when you turn off the screen. Are you sure that's not interfering with this beta app?
- skrowl 7y ago
  Send.firefox.com sends files over the internet, not peer-to-peer. If you're somewhere with poor (or no) network connectivity you can still use Google Files or AirDrop (I believe, not 100% sure on AirDrop).
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Opera Unite did it (and that's about the fifth time this year I've mentioned Opera Unite in response to a comment bemoaning a lack in currently embedded internet systems/apps).
cyphar 7y ago
Have you taken a look at magic-wormhole[1]? I've started using it recently and it's insanely easy to use. It does have a centralised signalling server for key exchange between peers, but it does attempt to do peer-to-peer data transfer (only falling back to a TURN-style relay if both clients are behind NATs and aren't on the same local network). An explanation of the cryptography and design was given at PyCon 2016[2]. It also has built-in optional Tor support (though I'm not sure if it attempts to use an onion service for data transfer). [1]: https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole [2]: https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c
- zaroth 7y ago
  I think this project demonstrates quite handily that the problem scope of a seemingly simple task can be quite large. ~1,500 commits in that repo.
- oefrha 7y ago
  I’m a happy user of magic-wormhole myself. It doesn’t solve the problem of sending files to phones, though.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    This is one of many reasons why I have a terminal on my phone, I can just apt install magic-wormhole and use it like on any other system. (The technical reader will note that a terminal does not give you apt, but mentioning that I have Debian running on the phone is more confusing, as it sounds like I replaced Android (which I did not) or maybe that it costs a lot of battery (the tools are idle when not in use, unlike many apps unfortunately...).)
    - oefrha 7y ago
      Sure, I can use wormhole on iSH on my iPhone/iPad if there are no alternatives. But there are alternatives, so I’ll definitely stay the hell away from it given the terrible ergonomics.
  - 7y ago
anderspitman 7y ago
file.pizza has mostly solved this for me. Not ideal UX, but it gets the job done.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  For those who don't know it, I'm not sure if it's clear that this is a link: yes, it really is just file.pizza (https://file.pizza https://file.pizza).
mackrevinack 7y ago
the safe network is making good progress lately.you might be waiting another year or two though
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
Personally I've been using Nitroshare for years in my home network and it works like a charm (between Windows, Linux, and macOS). Android is also supported, but not iOS (I saw someone created an iOS app, but I doubt it works still).
infectoid 7y ago
Isn't that what Bump was all about until Google killed it? http://techland.time.com/2014/01/01/sadly-but-inevitably-google-dumps-bump/ http://techland.time.com/2014/01/01/sadly-but-inevitably-goo...

Fickry 7y ago

What do you expected from a company who even cant made a phone with simple bluetooth file sharing

big_chungus 7y ago
Bluetooth file sharing works fine on just about every phone I've used. Bluetooth just isn't built for high-bandwidth applications like this, meaning while it's fine for a photograph, you will have issues with larger transfers. That's not a flaw in the implementation, bluetooth just isn't built for high transfer speeds. It is built to transfer enough data and operate at low power, not to be just another wireless NIC.
- Fickry 7y ago
  Its maybe slow. But still perfectly work for cross platform sharing file, from old symbian, different computer, printer, speakers...

skrowl 7y ago

https://files.google.com/ https://files.google.com/ is a standard and it works on the vast majority of phone sold this year, by every manufacturer except Apple. Checks all 3 of peer-to-peer, secure, no MiTM network blockage. It's only 11MB. Many popular file manager apps on android have peer-to-peer xfers as well, via WiFi direct, etc. EDIT - As people are pointing out this isn't universal because it doesn't work on Apple devices or desktops / laptops, but it's as close as I can think of currently.

ahmedfromtunis 7y ago
Almost. People need to install the app to use its transfer functionality, and it does not work with computers. We're still far from the universal, no-install solution that should've existed for so many years now.
- iforgotpassword 7y ago
  Well, no install basically means every OS vendor needs to ship a proper and compatible implementation (hah yes that'll surely happen) or you basically need something web based which means it needs an internet connection for bootstrapping.
thedanbob 7y ago
> except Apple I wouldn't exactly call that universal...
- skrowl 7y ago
  Yep, Apple's market share is around 11%, so only 89%(ish) of smartphones. Not 100%, and doesn't include desktops / laptops / etc. Still, about 8x better than AirDrop!
  - untog 7y ago
    Anything that excludes 11% of the market isn't universal at all though, which was the OP's original request.
    - lostgame 7y ago
      Especially when that 11% is a particularly vocal and active part of the market.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    It doesn't matter to me how many Android users there are globally when we're talking about short range file transfers. I'm not bluetoothing files to somebody in India. The US's market share split is more like 55% Android and 45% iOS, so anything that doesn't support both platforms is going to fail half the time here.

staticvoidmaine 7y ago

Rather than the google solution suggested by a sibling comment, I’d suggest a look at send.firefox.com.

ahmedfromtunis 7y ago
They don't offer the same solution; Google's works on a peer to peer manner, no internet needed. Firefox's is more like Wetransfer.
badumtss 7y ago
I just wish they'd hurry up and make the android app useable. I signed up for the beta and was pretty disappointed as my uploads were cancelled if my screen locked or, horribly enough, rotated ...
- lostgame 7y ago
  I never understood coders who don't separate UI threads and network calls - which is exactly what it sounds like is happening, here.
- _underfl0w_ 7y ago
  Willing to bet their devs came from iOS. That would explain the android-specific quirks.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  Android is Linux, you can always just install it the normal way and use it from a terminal. Maybe that's what you mean by unusable (a terminal isn't very user-friendly, but it solves the file transfer / app availability problem). If I remember correctly, you can configure (I don't know what the default is) to power save or even turn off WiFi on Android when you turn off the screen. Are you sure that's not interfering with this beta app?
skrowl 7y ago
Send.firefox.com sends files over the internet, not peer-to-peer. If you're somewhere with poor (or no) network connectivity you can still use Google Files or AirDrop (I believe, not 100% sure on AirDrop).

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

Opera Unite did it (and that's about the fifth time this year I've mentioned Opera Unite in response to a comment bemoaning a lack in currently embedded internet systems/apps).

cyphar 7y ago

Have you taken a look at magic-wormhole[1]? I've started using it recently and it's insanely easy to use. It does have a centralised signalling server for key exchange between peers, but it does attempt to do peer-to-peer data transfer (only falling back to a TURN-style relay if both clients are behind NATs and aren't on the same local network). An explanation of the cryptography and design was given at PyCon 2016[2]. It also has built-in optional Tor support (though I'm not sure if it attempts to use an onion service for data transfer). [1]: https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole [2]: https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c

zaroth 7y ago
I think this project demonstrates quite handily that the problem scope of a seemingly simple task can be quite large. ~1,500 commits in that repo.
oefrha 7y ago
I’m a happy user of magic-wormhole myself. It doesn’t solve the problem of sending files to phones, though.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  This is one of many reasons why I have a terminal on my phone, I can just apt install magic-wormhole and use it like on any other system. (The technical reader will note that a terminal does not give you apt, but mentioning that I have Debian running on the phone is more confusing, as it sounds like I replaced Android (which I did not) or maybe that it costs a lot of battery (the tools are idle when not in use, unlike many apps unfortunately...).)
  - oefrha 7y ago
    Sure, I can use wormhole on iSH on my iPhone/iPad if there are no alternatives. But there are alternatives, so I’ll definitely stay the hell away from it given the terrible ergonomics.
- 7y ago

anderspitman 7y ago

file.pizza has mostly solved this for me. Not ideal UX, but it gets the job done.

lucb1e 7y ago
For those who don't know it, I'm not sure if it's clear that this is a link: yes, it really is just file.pizza (https://file.pizza https://file.pizza).

mackrevinack 7y ago

the safe network is making good progress lately.you might be waiting another year or two though

dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago

Personally I've been using Nitroshare for years in my home network and it works like a charm (between Windows, Linux, and macOS). Android is also supported, but not iOS (I saw someone created an iOS app, but I doubt it works still).

infectoid 7y ago

Isn't that what Bump was all about until Google killed it? http://techland.time.com/2014/01/01/sadly-but-inevitably-google-dumps-bump/ http://techland.time.com/2014/01/01/sadly-but-inevitably-goo...