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> “I realized that my team simply did not have much to say on the issue of police brutality. This was odd—mostly because I’d watched them debate countless other

> “I realized that my team simply did not have much to say on the issue of police brutality. This was odd—mostly because I’d watched them debate countless other topics, newsworthy and not, with a proud deftness and alacrity,” the memo reads. “From disappearing Malaysian airplanes to the spread of Ebola to the marriages and divorces of celebrities I’d never heard of, my teammates always had something to say about everything. But when it came to the violent policing of black bodies, they were silent.” I don't think it's reasonable to expect your co-workers to openly protest any issue. People have families to take care of, paychecks to earn and rent to pay. They for the most part, want to do their job with minimum of drama. I'm sure there are a million issues that the memo author was not openly protesting that other co-workers may have cared deeply about. I would hope they wouldn't hold that against the author. I'm not questioning whether this person experienced racism at Google, as that seems likely in an organization of that size. I just don't think it's ok to be upset about your co-workers not being openly vocal in the workplace about a political issue you feel strongly about. There seems to be a strong push to politicize silence that seems very unhealthy. You don't know how people feel and act outside of work and the public sphere. Silence on an issue is not a political statement.

Barrin92 7y ago
>They for the most part, want to do their job with minimum of drama I think this here is the point where the author would disagree. Google employees and the staff at many larger tech companies produces their fair share of drama on virtually any political topic, and that's what makes this more off-putting. I'm not black but I come from a fairly poor background, and in the tech field obviously that is rather the exception than the norm and I've noticed a similar thing when it comes to class issues. You have people who start political mailing lists on gender pronouns and technicalities that nobody on the street has ever thought about, but then that same person talks about homeless people in front of the office with a sort of callousness and elitism that is pretty breathtaking. If we were just talking about your random corporate culture where everybody just sips their coffee and comments on nothing then in a way that'd make these things much less noticeable. But when you have workforces that are hyper-vigilant and politically correct show disregard on topics that touch a really wide population, like the African American community in the US in this case, that makes for a stark contrast.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I'm also from a poor background and agree with a lot of this. It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. No one will be happy in the end. They should have stayed focused on being excited about making the best technology they can, background and politics aside. Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch.
  - echelon 7y ago
    > It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. I wasn't aware this was a thing. Did Google openly support one candidate or party? How did they promote politics in the workplace? > Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch. How? What do new companies change or do differently? Are the FANGY companies doomed by a toxic culture they can't undo? And why can't they? I'm curious.
    - keiferski 7y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-video-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-...
      - kajecounterhack 7y ago
        Just read the article. FWIW when conservatives are "afraid to share their views" it's different than when progressives do, because a lot of conservative views will run counter to a code of conduct. Corporations need to be inclusive environments where all competent people have the space to do their work. Rejecting intolerance in the workplace is the only rational thing to do. If you let people be racist, sexist, or otherwise make another person feel threatened, that's not OK. If you feel threatened because you're a racist or sexist, well the onus is on you to grow up and recognize what's really broken here.
wavefunction 7y ago
I find it interesting that you've reacted so emotionally and read so much to what is a simple observation of the behavior of his coworkers.
zajd 7y ago
> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. Sure it is
WhyKill 7y ago
If you have the ability to speak out for an oppressed class of people but do not you are de facto supporting the dominant regime. Silence is collaboration with the status quou. It's subtle but it IS racism. If you have the time to talk about social issued with your co workers, you have the ability and time to stand up for truth, justice, and freedom from oppression. If you don't get back to work. It's precisely the silence that is deafening.
- jcims 7y ago
  This is an unsustainable position, you can’t fight every battle.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- the_snooze 7y ago
  >If you have the ability to speak out for an oppressed class of people but do not you are de facto supporting the dominant regime. Shaming others into action isn't sustainable. At best, they'll join you begrudgingly but drag their feet doing so and not recruit the next set of allies on your behalf. At worst, you persuade them to join your opposition.
- makoz 7y ago
  Can't this logic be spread to a bunch of other injustices in the world? If I interact with some party who is contributing some injustice to a group of people, whether in terms of work conditions, lack of political voice and so forth does that mean I'm collaborating/supporting their regime? An example is the current situations happening in Hong Kong and Uyghur. And the fact that everything we buy on a day to day basis is "supporting" this oppression.
- malandrew 7y ago
  I don't care what the issue is, but whenever someone makes this argument, it instantly makes me care that much less about whatever they are advocating. Everyone has a right to silence and non-involvement without having their motives questioned.
paggle 7y ago
And debate isn’t what the author wants. How would the author feel about a debate about whether black people are statistically more likely or not to experience police brutality? People feel like they can debate what happened to MH17 or who Angelia Jolie will date. But for these issues there is only one sanctioned viewpoint. Forgive me for not standing in a circle while we all chant it.
- Jim_Heckler 7y ago
  Ok, here's some https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 - Police departments disproportionately killed black people, who were 41% of victims despite being only 20% of the population living in these cities. - 41 of the 60 police departments disproportionately killed black people relative to the population of black people in their jurisdiction. - 14 police departments killed black people exclusively in 2015, 100% of the people they killed were black. For only 5 police departments were 100% of those killed white.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Again, the statistics are about more the 'being black'. They are about neighborhood, economics, social norms. Resulting in altercations between mostly-white police and black citizens getting out of hand. Its not right; I'm not arguing that. But until we understand the actual reasons behind the statistics, its just a shouting contest.
  - alfromspace 7y ago
    How many more black people than white people per capita commit crimes, and have interactions and altercations with the police? I can show you the answer for New York City: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2018-enforcement-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_... The crime of shooting is very striking: Only 2.2% of perpetrators are white.
  - paggle 7y ago
    Thanks but it was just illustrative. I was not trying to start that debate. Only to highlight that the “conversations” that the author wants to see are largely just echoes of the same opinion, not an actual lively debate about who Sansa Stark will marry. I’d rather argue for an hour about whether Tom Brady or Joe Montana was better than sit in a drum circle and see who can say Black Lives Matter the loudest.
jcims 7y ago
I used to think that real estate prices/cost of living would drive companies to start looking to base operations outside of the bay area. I’m starting to think that a high maintenance workforce culture is going to beat prices to the punch.
human20190310 7y ago
His co-workers were openly vocal about the impact of the Eric Garner-related protests (blocked traffic) but silent on the issue itself. I think that's worthy of criticism, even if it is human nature to avoid issues until they impact you directly.
- Chazprime 7y ago
  Why is that worthy of criticism? I think that it's also human nature to refrain from talking politics at work. Personally, political issues are usually reserved for friends & family...I don't bring them into the workplace.
  - jayventura 7y ago
    The workplace is the perfect place for politics. Imagine if nobody every asked: "Should blacks, LGBTQ+, women even deserve to work these types of jobs or be promoted?" Taking that even further, imagine if nobody ever asked: "Should we be using slaves?" If you don't have to think about politics in the workplace, then you have a very special privilege-- and I think you should consider how you can share that power with others so they too can simply think about getting a paycheck.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      If nobody ever asked "should we be using slaves?" perhaps slavery would not have emerged in the first place.
stonogo 7y ago
> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. Of course it is; it's merely an ambiguous one. It either means "I am happy with the status quo" or "I am too afraid to express opposition to the status quo."
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  Or "I am focused on other things and not giving this topic my consideration."
  - stonogo 7y ago
    That falls under "I am happy with the status quo." There are people who are not fortunate enough to be able to ignore these things.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      There are many more issues to be solved than there are seconds in a day. Being unable to focus on everything does not mean you are happy with it.
      - samfriedman 7y ago
        At the very least it signals that your ranking of importance for a given issue may be lower than someone else's.
        rootusrootus 7y ago
        Which is totally expected. No two people align 100% on priorities.
    - seattle_spring 7y ago
      If I checked your comment history, would I see you fighting for fixing the outsized amount of suicides committed by men in the USA? If not, do you think it'd be reasonable to assume you're happy with the current state of affairs in that arena?
Chazprime 7y ago
> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. At the very least, one should not make assumptions on someone's stance on a subject based on their silence. A lot of people lately seem quick to ascertain intent based on little or no context, and that's not a good way to deal with others.
jayventura 7y ago
Where would we be today if people stayed silent about discrimination in the workplace and society at large (racial, gender, sexual orientation)? Silence is a privilege. Silence is what perpetuates power inequity. Silence says to me: "My six figure paycheck is more important to me than having an opinion on something that is negatively impacting my colleague and their demographic." Silence is something oppressed communities do not have the privilege of. Black people simply cannot be silent when they fear for their lives at every traffic stop. LGBTQ+ people cannot be silent when politicians are constantly trying to undermine their human rights in the name of religious freedom. Women cannot be silent when politicians do the same to their bodies, and the workplace constantly undermines their value.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  > Silence is a privilege One could easily argue that having the freedom to express an opinion on topics for which only one opinion is acceptable is much more privileged position to be in.
rayiner 7y ago
That is a very weird example for the article to lead with. He's talking about the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. What kind of "debate" can a primarily white and asian group of people have about those events? The whole fun of nerd debates is taking dueling positions on low-stakes issues--something that would be way out of line with respect to those issues.
- southphillyman 7y ago
  >my teammates always had something to say about everything. But when it came to the violent policing of black bodies, they were silent Debate is probably the wrong term, seems he was just looking for an acknowledgement of the problem. After one of those police shooting incidents I came into work and all of my coworkers, all white and asian, were talking about how bad the incident was. People at work come together and talk about major traumatic news stories all the time. A consistent absence of that when it relates to a specific topic might seem....strange.
  - danShumway 7y ago
    Honestly, it sounds like even acknowledgement was not the problem. Their coworkers did speak up -- to criticize the protesters and claim they weren't accomplishing anything. If I were in this person's position, silence would make me feel a little weird. My coworkers actively deriding the protest that I'm about to go join would make me feel a lot more weird. I don't think people are lying when they say that tech employees have their own biases and blind spots, and it doesn't necessarily surprise me to learn that race is one of them.
kelnos 7y ago
The article author stopped quoting too soon[0]. > Until they weren't. > ... > "These protestors aren't going to solve anything ," she said. "Like, what are those people even trying to do? Seriously. What are they trying to do? Make people mad about getting stuck in traffic? Piss people off because they can't get to Grand Central? It's annoying . I just can't stand it." > She rattled off a couple of other disparaging comments about the peaceful protestors I was preparing to join, repeatedly referring to them as those people before a chorus of my team’s nodding heads, each bobbing affirmingly behind their desk. I agree that you shouldn't expect your co-workers to openly protest anything in particular, or anything at all. But I think it's just common sense to not shit on a bunch of people protesting police brutality committed on a black man... when one of your black co-workers is sitting a few feet away. At best it's insensitive. [0] https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6278613/The-Weight-of-Silence-Reflecting-on-D-I-at-Google.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6278613/The-Weigh...
- arcticbull 7y ago
  > "These protestors aren't going to solve anything ," she said. "Like, what are those people even trying to do? Seriously. What are they trying to do? Make people mad about getting stuck in traffic? Piss people off because they can't get to Grand Central? It's annoying . I just can't stand it." Yes. That's how protests work. You're trying piss people off enough to notice and take action. It doesn't matter what they're mad at so long as they're mad enough to take action. I don't care if they're pissed off that I'm wearing dark pants that they make the social change I'm after, so long as it gets made.
  - patrickmcnamara 7y ago
    It's unfortunate how many people want others' problems to be as ignorable as possible.
    - the_snooze 7y ago
      It's dangerous (and quite condescending) to assume that people are ignoring your plight out of ignorance or malice. Don't ask "why aren't they listening to me?" Ask instead "how am I making my point relatable and appealing to them?" If you're pissing off the very people you're trying to win over to your side, then you have little reason to be surprised when they turn against you.

Barrin92 7y ago

>They for the most part, want to do their job with minimum of drama I think this here is the point where the author would disagree. Google employees and the staff at many larger tech companies produces their fair share of drama on virtually any political topic, and that's what makes this more off-putting. I'm not black but I come from a fairly poor background, and in the tech field obviously that is rather the exception than the norm and I've noticed a similar thing when it comes to class issues. You have people who start political mailing lists on gender pronouns and technicalities that nobody on the street has ever thought about, but then that same person talks about homeless people in front of the office with a sort of callousness and elitism that is pretty breathtaking. If we were just talking about your random corporate culture where everybody just sips their coffee and comments on nothing then in a way that'd make these things much less noticeable. But when you have workforces that are hyper-vigilant and politically correct show disregard on topics that touch a really wide population, like the African American community in the US in this case, that makes for a stark contrast.

malvosenior 7y ago
I'm also from a poor background and agree with a lot of this. It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. No one will be happy in the end. They should have stayed focused on being excited about making the best technology they can, background and politics aside. Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch.
- echelon 7y ago
  > It was a huge mistake for Google (and other valley companies) to politicize the workplace. I wasn't aware this was a thing. Did Google openly support one candidate or party? How did they promote politics in the workplace? > Pandora's box is open now and I don't think they'll be able to reign it in. Thankfully, this leaves an opportunity for another generation of companies to return to a technology first message and eat the large, politically quagmired megacorp's lunch. How? What do new companies change or do differently? Are the FANGY companies doomed by a toxic culture they can't undo? And why can't they? I'm curious.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-video-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/technology/leaked-google-...
    - kajecounterhack 7y ago
      Just read the article. FWIW when conservatives are "afraid to share their views" it's different than when progressives do, because a lot of conservative views will run counter to a code of conduct. Corporations need to be inclusive environments where all competent people have the space to do their work. Rejecting intolerance in the workplace is the only rational thing to do. If you let people be racist, sexist, or otherwise make another person feel threatened, that's not OK. If you feel threatened because you're a racist or sexist, well the onus is on you to grow up and recognize what's really broken here.

wavefunction 7y ago

I find it interesting that you've reacted so emotionally and read so much to what is a simple observation of the behavior of his coworkers.

zajd 7y ago

> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. Sure it is

WhyKill 7y ago

If you have the ability to speak out for an oppressed class of people but do not you are de facto supporting the dominant regime. Silence is collaboration with the status quou. It's subtle but it IS racism. If you have the time to talk about social issued with your co workers, you have the ability and time to stand up for truth, justice, and freedom from oppression. If you don't get back to work. It's precisely the silence that is deafening.

jcims 7y ago
This is an unsustainable position, you can’t fight every battle.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
the_snooze 7y ago
>If you have the ability to speak out for an oppressed class of people but do not you are de facto supporting the dominant regime. Shaming others into action isn't sustainable. At best, they'll join you begrudgingly but drag their feet doing so and not recruit the next set of allies on your behalf. At worst, you persuade them to join your opposition.
makoz 7y ago
Can't this logic be spread to a bunch of other injustices in the world? If I interact with some party who is contributing some injustice to a group of people, whether in terms of work conditions, lack of political voice and so forth does that mean I'm collaborating/supporting their regime? An example is the current situations happening in Hong Kong and Uyghur. And the fact that everything we buy on a day to day basis is "supporting" this oppression.
malandrew 7y ago
I don't care what the issue is, but whenever someone makes this argument, it instantly makes me care that much less about whatever they are advocating. Everyone has a right to silence and non-involvement without having their motives questioned.

paggle 7y ago

And debate isn’t what the author wants. How would the author feel about a debate about whether black people are statistically more likely or not to experience police brutality? People feel like they can debate what happened to MH17 or who Angelia Jolie will date. But for these issues there is only one sanctioned viewpoint. Forgive me for not standing in a circle while we all chant it.

Jim_Heckler 7y ago
Ok, here's some https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 - Police departments disproportionately killed black people, who were 41% of victims despite being only 20% of the population living in these cities. - 41 of the 60 police departments disproportionately killed black people relative to the population of black people in their jurisdiction. - 14 police departments killed black people exclusively in 2015, 100% of the people they killed were black. For only 5 police departments were 100% of those killed white.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Again, the statistics are about more the 'being black'. They are about neighborhood, economics, social norms. Resulting in altercations between mostly-white police and black citizens getting out of hand. Its not right; I'm not arguing that. But until we understand the actual reasons behind the statistics, its just a shouting contest.
- alfromspace 7y ago
  How many more black people than white people per capita commit crimes, and have interactions and altercations with the police? I can show you the answer for New York City: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2018-enforcement-report.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_... The crime of shooting is very striking: Only 2.2% of perpetrators are white.
- paggle 7y ago
  Thanks but it was just illustrative. I was not trying to start that debate. Only to highlight that the “conversations” that the author wants to see are largely just echoes of the same opinion, not an actual lively debate about who Sansa Stark will marry. I’d rather argue for an hour about whether Tom Brady or Joe Montana was better than sit in a drum circle and see who can say Black Lives Matter the loudest.

jcims 7y ago

I used to think that real estate prices/cost of living would drive companies to start looking to base operations outside of the bay area. I’m starting to think that a high maintenance workforce culture is going to beat prices to the punch.

human20190310 7y ago

His co-workers were openly vocal about the impact of the Eric Garner-related protests (blocked traffic) but silent on the issue itself. I think that's worthy of criticism, even if it is human nature to avoid issues until they impact you directly.

Chazprime 7y ago
Why is that worthy of criticism? I think that it's also human nature to refrain from talking politics at work. Personally, political issues are usually reserved for friends & family...I don't bring them into the workplace.
- jayventura 7y ago
  The workplace is the perfect place for politics. Imagine if nobody every asked: "Should blacks, LGBTQ+, women even deserve to work these types of jobs or be promoted?" Taking that even further, imagine if nobody ever asked: "Should we be using slaves?" If you don't have to think about politics in the workplace, then you have a very special privilege-- and I think you should consider how you can share that power with others so they too can simply think about getting a paycheck.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    If nobody ever asked "should we be using slaves?" perhaps slavery would not have emerged in the first place.

stonogo 7y ago

> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. Of course it is; it's merely an ambiguous one. It either means "I am happy with the status quo" or "I am too afraid to express opposition to the status quo."

rootusrootus 7y ago
Or "I am focused on other things and not giving this topic my consideration."
- stonogo 7y ago
  That falls under "I am happy with the status quo." There are people who are not fortunate enough to be able to ignore these things.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    There are many more issues to be solved than there are seconds in a day. Being unable to focus on everything does not mean you are happy with it.
    - samfriedman 7y ago
      At the very least it signals that your ranking of importance for a given issue may be lower than someone else's.
      - rootusrootus 7y ago
        Which is totally expected. No two people align 100% on priorities.
  - seattle_spring 7y ago
    If I checked your comment history, would I see you fighting for fixing the outsized amount of suicides committed by men in the USA? If not, do you think it'd be reasonable to assume you're happy with the current state of affairs in that arena?

Chazprime 7y ago

> Silence on an issue is not a political statement. At the very least, one should not make assumptions on someone's stance on a subject based on their silence. A lot of people lately seem quick to ascertain intent based on little or no context, and that's not a good way to deal with others.

jayventura 7y ago

Where would we be today if people stayed silent about discrimination in the workplace and society at large (racial, gender, sexual orientation)? Silence is a privilege. Silence is what perpetuates power inequity. Silence says to me: "My six figure paycheck is more important to me than having an opinion on something that is negatively impacting my colleague and their demographic." Silence is something oppressed communities do not have the privilege of. Black people simply cannot be silent when they fear for their lives at every traffic stop. LGBTQ+ people cannot be silent when politicians are constantly trying to undermine their human rights in the name of religious freedom. Women cannot be silent when politicians do the same to their bodies, and the workplace constantly undermines their value.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
commandlinefan 7y ago
> Silence is a privilege One could easily argue that having the freedom to express an opinion on topics for which only one opinion is acceptable is much more privileged position to be in.

rayiner 7y ago

That is a very weird example for the article to lead with. He's talking about the deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown. What kind of "debate" can a primarily white and asian group of people have about those events? The whole fun of nerd debates is taking dueling positions on low-stakes issues--something that would be way out of line with respect to those issues.

southphillyman 7y ago
>my teammates always had something to say about everything. But when it came to the violent policing of black bodies, they were silent Debate is probably the wrong term, seems he was just looking for an acknowledgement of the problem. After one of those police shooting incidents I came into work and all of my coworkers, all white and asian, were talking about how bad the incident was. People at work come together and talk about major traumatic news stories all the time. A consistent absence of that when it relates to a specific topic might seem....strange.
- danShumway 7y ago
  Honestly, it sounds like even acknowledgement was not the problem. Their coworkers did speak up -- to criticize the protesters and claim they weren't accomplishing anything. If I were in this person's position, silence would make me feel a little weird. My coworkers actively deriding the protest that I'm about to go join would make me feel a lot more weird. I don't think people are lying when they say that tech employees have their own biases and blind spots, and it doesn't necessarily surprise me to learn that race is one of them.

kelnos 7y ago

The article author stopped quoting too soon[0]. > Until they weren't. > ... > "These protestors aren't going to solve anything ," she said. "Like, what are those people even trying to do? Seriously. What are they trying to do? Make people mad about getting stuck in traffic? Piss people off because they can't get to Grand Central? It's annoying . I just can't stand it." > She rattled off a couple of other disparaging comments about the peaceful protestors I was preparing to join, repeatedly referring to them as those people before a chorus of my team’s nodding heads, each bobbing affirmingly behind their desk. I agree that you shouldn't expect your co-workers to openly protest anything in particular, or anything at all. But I think it's just common sense to not shit on a bunch of people protesting police brutality committed on a black man... when one of your black co-workers is sitting a few feet away. At best it's insensitive. [0] https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6278613/The-Weight-of-Silence-Reflecting-on-D-I-at-Google.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6278613/The-Weigh...

arcticbull 7y ago
> "These protestors aren't going to solve anything ," she said. "Like, what are those people even trying to do? Seriously. What are they trying to do? Make people mad about getting stuck in traffic? Piss people off because they can't get to Grand Central? It's annoying . I just can't stand it." Yes. That's how protests work. You're trying piss people off enough to notice and take action. It doesn't matter what they're mad at so long as they're mad enough to take action. I don't care if they're pissed off that I'm wearing dark pants that they make the social change I'm after, so long as it gets made.
- patrickmcnamara 7y ago
  It's unfortunate how many people want others' problems to be as ignorable as possible.
  - the_snooze 7y ago
    It's dangerous (and quite condescending) to assume that people are ignoring your plight out of ignorance or malice. Don't ask "why aren't they listening to me?" Ask instead "how am I making my point relatable and appealing to them?" If you're pissing off the very people you're trying to win over to your side, then you have little reason to be surprised when they turn against you.