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Man, I wish any of that were true. It seems that life is just too random to have that end up being true. Too many things happen that you can't control that then

Man, I wish any of that were true. It seems that life is just too random to have that end up being true. Too many things happen that you can't control that then come along and wreck it all. My SO achieved so much, had it all, got through grad school great, was going to teach at a University I know you have heard of, do amazing research all over the world, help out humanity in a very real way, all that jazz. Then, bam, the pain started up and has never left. The chonic pain disorder my SO has is a real sumbitch. I love my SO, terribly so. But all that my SO had just evaporated into the pain. Just one bad infection, like about 2% of the US gets, and there it all went. No amount of drive is going to fix it. No amount of work. My SO can't work through the pain as it exacerbates the condition. Lord knows my SO spent months and years just trying to ignore it, making it worse the whole while. That pain just winds you, for days at a time. Takes it all. And the shame that my SO feels just kills me. All the desires, all that motivation and drive that my SO had, it's all still there, clawing at my SO's mind, telling itself that my SO is 'just not good enough'. That person is still there, just enveloped with pain, trying to break out and work again. What gave my SO everything, all that honor and accomplishment, is not tearing into my SO and making it all worse. Bukowski isn't wrong, per se, but he is not right either. That fire is dangerous in the wrong circumstances and it's very difficult to tell when you are in the wrong place. One quote that has really changed as it has aged is that Bourdain quote: > “I understand there’s a guy inside me who wants to lay in bed, smoke weed all day, and watch cartoons and old movies. My whole life is a series of stratagems to avoid, and outwit, that guy.” Yet Anthony died by his own hand. That drive, that spark and thumos, it was his undoing as much as it was his making. Would he have been as a sucess if not for that drive? The only person that could tell you is dead. So, sure, sleep on the benches for it, go to jail for it, but remember, there are worse things than just temporary discomforts, mockery, and dishonor waiting in the weeds along that path.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bisRepetita 7y ago
Thanks for writing this.
marktangotango 7y ago
“Worse things” await us all no matter what path we’re on.
- Balgair 7y ago
  Very true, thank you for pointing that out.
jdswain 7y ago
Your SO is very lucky to have your understanding. While personal torment in a situation like this is probably the biggest issue, the fear of others judgement is a very real problem to deal with. So many things that people say are just wrong in these situations, things that are well meaning but misguided. So having the support and understanding of a partner is a great thing, and probably a rare thing. From your comment you appear to have a good understanding of what your SO is going through and that will help keep your relationship strong.
kryogen1c 7y ago
This is just one anecdata, but its really a timeless parable. So much of your life is wildly out of your control and not your doing. Hard work is neither necessary nor sufficient for great success. It is the human condition told by the laws of large numbers. Devilish people prosper and divine people suffer. The only option is to do your best with what you got, and help your community do the same. You gotta keep on keepin' on. Life's a garden, ya dig?
- Aeolun 7y ago
  > Hard work is neither necessary nor sufficient for great success. It does, however, make it a lot more likely. Conversely: Not working hard makes failure a near certainty.
  - trevyn 7y ago
    I think this is only true for certain definitions of success and failure.
  - adventured 7y ago
    It's a point that is universally disregarded in these discussions as though it's not relevant, even though it's at the very core of the discussion. One can easily guess why it's intentionally disregarded: it's inconvenient to the mindset being broadcast (ie it's not a supporting element to the worldview being subscribed to). Success requires luck and doing, action. The odds are strongly against you in most all cases, even with some luck. In the equation of success, those two things cannot be separated, they are bound together in all cases. Not doing, not taking action, guarantees you will not succeed, you will simply never start at all. Luck will have no role in that for you have already reduced the possibilities to none other than no success / no attempt. The more cynical view can be summed up as saying that because luck is a requirement, effort is mostly futile because you can't control everything. It's a personal mindset projection (someone is telling you their bias, giving you insight into their experience, their fears, etc), rather than any kind of useful insight into how you can or can't create something successfully.
  - CM30 7y ago
DevKoala 7y ago
Thank you for this perspective.
esotericn 7y ago
Look after her. And yourself. It sounds like you have a very special bond. Thank you for sharing this.
- dTal 7y ago
  Why do you assume OP's SO is female? OP went to great lengths to avoid pronouns.
trevyn 7y ago
I read something different into that Bukowski quote. Specifically, I read it as a warning against voluntarily putting your destiny and satisfaction in the hands of other humans or organizations; it is a call to independence of thought and action. Your SO’s situation is an unfortunate roll of the dice. Any of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But these seem orthogonal to Bukowski’s point.
milchek 7y ago
Well said. Really this kind of discussion and debate tends to revolve around whether people assign importance to the destination or the journey. If you're constantly striving and chasing some personal goal, ie. "once I achieve this, THEN I'll be happy" then there are two major risks. The first is that you'll fail - the fallout from this is obvious since your happiness was a self-imposed condition of achieving said goal. The second risk is that you do not live to see your goal, or, unfortunately as you've described in your personal story, the goal will become worthless for one reason or another - such as a major personal crisis or illness. That's not to say you shouldn't strive for great things or have lofty goals and plans. I personally don't have the answers on the "key to happiness and success", but I do know that always chasing and never stopping to reflect or enjoy what you actually have can't be healthy either. I suppose that's where a lot of the power of things like meditation and mindfulness come from; because they're about being in the moment. Personally, I think it's important to take each day as it comes and aim to be the best version of yourself you can be that day. You win some, you lose some, but hopefully, the cumulative effect of more good days outweigh the bad, and you can one day reflect on that without too much regret and with some sense of happiness. On another note, Bukowski's requested that "Don't Try" is engraved on his tombstone. Some feel it is a comment about being authentic, not pursuing or pushing for something that isn't you, and about letting the work you naturally enjoy flow from you, as opposed to forcing it - or trying too hard.
- ohazi 7y ago
  > "once I achieve this, THEN I'll be happy" Sometimes people achieve their goal only to realize that happiness didn't follow. Of all the people I know who have made a similar statement and then found success, this was the most common outcome. Being happy can be a surprising amount of work, and there aren't any instructions. It's better to figure out how you can be happy while also spending time on the goals you think are worthwhile. If you need them, there are other tricks you can use to motivate yourself that don't involve deliberately sabotaging your own well-being.
- xwdv 7y ago
  Chasing personal goals is more or less how I fucked up my life. I thought I was doing the right things, I trusted that someday I’d feel happy and fulfilled if I achieved them. And I did achieve many of them, but instead of feeling happy, I just kind of felt like an asshole. I tried way too hard, I faked it till I made it, and when I looked back, I saw I basically lived a fake life, and had no one I could connect with on a genuine level. I had no “journey”, my journey was all about faking my journey, reflecting on it was just thinking about how I was thinking of getting to my destination.
goldfeld 7y ago
That fire really is dangerous. But some sort of other drive may help put it out. Look into Ayurveda and the source of inflammation (infection), i.e. pitta energy, and the sorts of anti inflammatory diets she could pursue, or reply for some links and pointers. Alexander the Great was going to create the most cultured empire out of a seat in ancient Babylon but then died of the fire, a fever after too many military campaigns and Indus conquest. Incredibly ironic too, since Aristotle was his personal tutor and Ayurveda (from India or the ancient Indus valley vedas) was the basis for Aristotle and other Greek natural philosophy, but they lost contact with the sources. If geniuses like Alexander and Mozart had known about these philosophies out of India they might not have died on the prime of their third decade of life. But as you put it, the human condition is not so simple as only having drive. Also avoid prolonged screen time, look for kindle or paper books and conducting work or research out of plain (or fancy) old notebooks as much as possible.
erikpukinskis 7y ago
Relentlessness doesn’t mean “keep doing the same things you always did forever and get your fantasy life”. It means “pick one game, keep playing even when you have every reason to think you already lost the game, and you just might win it”. No disrespect, I don’t want to diminish the utter torture that is chronic pain, but nothing you mentioned sounds like it’s preventing your SO from maintaining a posture of relentlessness every day until she dies. It might not be what she wants, it would probably destroy her relationships and her mind, it would probably require her to do things that she abhors, but the door is still there.
- Balgair 7y ago
  > it would probably destroy her relationships and her mind What then is left of a person?
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    Something new can be made. Some things can’t be lost.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bisRepetita 7y ago

Thanks for writing this.

marktangotango 7y ago

“Worse things” await us all no matter what path we’re on.

Balgair 7y ago
Very true, thank you for pointing that out.

jdswain 7y ago

Your SO is very lucky to have your understanding. While personal torment in a situation like this is probably the biggest issue, the fear of others judgement is a very real problem to deal with. So many things that people say are just wrong in these situations, things that are well meaning but misguided. So having the support and understanding of a partner is a great thing, and probably a rare thing. From your comment you appear to have a good understanding of what your SO is going through and that will help keep your relationship strong.

kryogen1c 7y ago

This is just one anecdata, but its really a timeless parable. So much of your life is wildly out of your control and not your doing. Hard work is neither necessary nor sufficient for great success. It is the human condition told by the laws of large numbers. Devilish people prosper and divine people suffer. The only option is to do your best with what you got, and help your community do the same. You gotta keep on keepin' on. Life's a garden, ya dig?

Aeolun 7y ago
> Hard work is neither necessary nor sufficient for great success. It does, however, make it a lot more likely. Conversely: Not working hard makes failure a near certainty.
- trevyn 7y ago
  I think this is only true for certain definitions of success and failure.
- adventured 7y ago
  It's a point that is universally disregarded in these discussions as though it's not relevant, even though it's at the very core of the discussion. One can easily guess why it's intentionally disregarded: it's inconvenient to the mindset being broadcast (ie it's not a supporting element to the worldview being subscribed to). Success requires luck and doing, action. The odds are strongly against you in most all cases, even with some luck. In the equation of success, those two things cannot be separated, they are bound together in all cases. Not doing, not taking action, guarantees you will not succeed, you will simply never start at all. Luck will have no role in that for you have already reduced the possibilities to none other than no success / no attempt. The more cynical view can be summed up as saying that because luck is a requirement, effort is mostly futile because you can't control everything. It's a personal mindset projection (someone is telling you their bias, giving you insight into their experience, their fears, etc), rather than any kind of useful insight into how you can or can't create something successfully.
- CM30 7y ago

DevKoala 7y ago

Thank you for this perspective.

esotericn 7y ago

Look after her. And yourself. It sounds like you have a very special bond. Thank you for sharing this.

dTal 7y ago
Why do you assume OP's SO is female? OP went to great lengths to avoid pronouns.

trevyn 7y ago

I read something different into that Bukowski quote. Specifically, I read it as a warning against voluntarily putting your destiny and satisfaction in the hands of other humans or organizations; it is a call to independence of thought and action. Your SO’s situation is an unfortunate roll of the dice. Any of us could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But these seem orthogonal to Bukowski’s point.

milchek 7y ago

Well said. Really this kind of discussion and debate tends to revolve around whether people assign importance to the destination or the journey. If you're constantly striving and chasing some personal goal, ie. "once I achieve this, THEN I'll be happy" then there are two major risks. The first is that you'll fail - the fallout from this is obvious since your happiness was a self-imposed condition of achieving said goal. The second risk is that you do not live to see your goal, or, unfortunately as you've described in your personal story, the goal will become worthless for one reason or another - such as a major personal crisis or illness. That's not to say you shouldn't strive for great things or have lofty goals and plans. I personally don't have the answers on the "key to happiness and success", but I do know that always chasing and never stopping to reflect or enjoy what you actually have can't be healthy either. I suppose that's where a lot of the power of things like meditation and mindfulness come from; because they're about being in the moment. Personally, I think it's important to take each day as it comes and aim to be the best version of yourself you can be that day. You win some, you lose some, but hopefully, the cumulative effect of more good days outweigh the bad, and you can one day reflect on that without too much regret and with some sense of happiness. On another note, Bukowski's requested that "Don't Try" is engraved on his tombstone. Some feel it is a comment about being authentic, not pursuing or pushing for something that isn't you, and about letting the work you naturally enjoy flow from you, as opposed to forcing it - or trying too hard.

ohazi 7y ago
> "once I achieve this, THEN I'll be happy" Sometimes people achieve their goal only to realize that happiness didn't follow. Of all the people I know who have made a similar statement and then found success, this was the most common outcome. Being happy can be a surprising amount of work, and there aren't any instructions. It's better to figure out how you can be happy while also spending time on the goals you think are worthwhile. If you need them, there are other tricks you can use to motivate yourself that don't involve deliberately sabotaging your own well-being.
xwdv 7y ago
Chasing personal goals is more or less how I fucked up my life. I thought I was doing the right things, I trusted that someday I’d feel happy and fulfilled if I achieved them. And I did achieve many of them, but instead of feeling happy, I just kind of felt like an asshole. I tried way too hard, I faked it till I made it, and when I looked back, I saw I basically lived a fake life, and had no one I could connect with on a genuine level. I had no “journey”, my journey was all about faking my journey, reflecting on it was just thinking about how I was thinking of getting to my destination.

goldfeld 7y ago

That fire really is dangerous. But some sort of other drive may help put it out. Look into Ayurveda and the source of inflammation (infection), i.e. pitta energy, and the sorts of anti inflammatory diets she could pursue, or reply for some links and pointers. Alexander the Great was going to create the most cultured empire out of a seat in ancient Babylon but then died of the fire, a fever after too many military campaigns and Indus conquest. Incredibly ironic too, since Aristotle was his personal tutor and Ayurveda (from India or the ancient Indus valley vedas) was the basis for Aristotle and other Greek natural philosophy, but they lost contact with the sources. If geniuses like Alexander and Mozart had known about these philosophies out of India they might not have died on the prime of their third decade of life. But as you put it, the human condition is not so simple as only having drive. Also avoid prolonged screen time, look for kindle or paper books and conducting work or research out of plain (or fancy) old notebooks as much as possible.

erikpukinskis 7y ago

Relentlessness doesn’t mean “keep doing the same things you always did forever and get your fantasy life”. It means “pick one game, keep playing even when you have every reason to think you already lost the game, and you just might win it”. No disrespect, I don’t want to diminish the utter torture that is chronic pain, but nothing you mentioned sounds like it’s preventing your SO from maintaining a posture of relentlessness every day until she dies. It might not be what she wants, it would probably destroy her relationships and her mind, it would probably require her to do things that she abhors, but the door is still there.

Balgair 7y ago
> it would probably destroy her relationships and her mind What then is left of a person?
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Something new can be made. Some things can’t be lost.