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Bananas are the prime cautionary tale against monoculture. The number of native breeds which are now gone for the sake of promotion of one particular breed lead

by sn41 7y ago

Bananas are the prime cautionary tale against monoculture. The number of native breeds which are now gone for the sake of promotion of one particular breed leads to less resilience against disease and pests. Just in my corner of India, there are various varieties. [1] However, in the U.S., the only variety you often get to see is the insipid Cavendish, whose only merit seems to be shelf-life. If you travel in the tropics, do try out local varieties. It is an amazing fruit (?). [1] http://mywordsnthoughts.com/myworld/all-about-kerala/different-types-of-banana-available-in-kerala/ http://mywordsnthoughts.com/myworld/all-about-kerala/differe...

latchkey 7y ago
I currently live in Vietnam, but was recently traveling around Laos by motorbike. The bananas there are almost inedible... they taste awful. I found it fascinating how different they were compared with Vietnamese bananas. That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationalist news.
- JackDrury 7y ago
  Are you sure they weren't cooking bananas (plantains)?
  - latchkey 7y ago
    Yes
- himlion 7y ago
  Interesting, I was just going to say how varied and incredibly tasty the local Lao bananas are. I wonder if we have different taste or you've tried different ones than I have. The ones I like best are the very small "good smelling bananas" (ກ້ວຍຫອມ).
  - latchkey 7y ago
    I found that when you first bite into the outside, it was good, but as you got into the center, it had a very bad taste that ruined the experience of the outside. It was a weird and totally unexpected thing for me since I normally love bananas. I tried stopping at several different vendors (stands) on the roadside to make sure it wasn't just one. I was mostly north of Vientiane, so maybe the southern ones are better.
    - fouc 7y ago
      There's definitely a few different strains of bananas in asia, it's not uncommon to see 2-3 different types of bananas being sold right next to each other in the markets. The most obvious indicator to me is the size of the individual bananas, the smaller ones taste pretty weird to me. OH, and also I assume there's a bit of a taste difference with the bananas we're used to because they weren't dosed in Ethlyene to hasten the ripening. (In western countries the grocery warehouse has a room for spraying bananas in ethlyene before delivering to the grocery stores)
      - ferzul 7y ago
        2-3 doesn't sound like much, even in australia we have that
        abrugsch 7y ago
        In the UK we don't. you have to hunt pretty hard to find a banana that isn't a cavendish (or a plantain) In fact I don't think I've ever seen a second variety since i've started looking... (probably in the wrong markets, but that's kind of my point)
        tempguy9999 7y ago
        Sure they do. I live in london. Go to shepherd's bush market[0] and you can find cooking bananas like plantain, bluggo and matoke (my fave), and for desert bananas you can find fig/monkey bananas, red bananas and I think I've seen more. Go somewhere caribbean oriented and you'll have a better chance. Plus you'll find other unusual stuff too. [0] worth it just for being the polar opposite of a sterile, well ordered, monoculture of a supermarket. It's fab. (Edit: I didn't read your comment properly so my reply isn't so relevant)
- onion2k 7y ago
  That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationalist news. "I can't see the problem with my own eyes so I don't think there's a problem." is exactly the sort of thinking that leads to climate denial and anti-vaxx nonsense. Unless you've spent a lot of time and effort understanding the banana industry you simply aren't qualified to make that judgement.
  - latchkey 7y ago
    Wow, that is a stretch to loop my thinking in with both of those movements. I am not even close to that nonsense. Of course I'm no expert, but this whole banana disappearance story has been going on for many years, yet we still have bananas. There is not even close to a shortage of bananas. It reminds me of the Helium is running out stories. Let me also remind you that the story is talking about a specific strain and my comment was clearly not about that strain. I could also say... unless you've driven 8500km all over Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos and seen first hand the millions of banana trees, your thinking might be constrained to some one sitting behind a keyboard.
    - javert 7y ago
      > Let me also remind you that the story is talking about a specific strain and my comment was clearly not about that strain. Since TR4 has reportedly been present in Southeast Asia for quite a while, sighting a ton of TR4-vulnerable bananas growing there would be evidence that the story is sensationalized. But if the bananas you saw are TR4-resistant, your anecdote isn't really relevant at all. In that case, or if you don't know which case it is, you really can't justifiably say that the article is sensationalized.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      There is not even close to a shortage of bananas. IANABE (I am not a banana expert) but I know that no one suggested there is a shortage right now. What's threatened is the world's supply of Cavendish bananas which is what every Western country imports. Prior to that everyone ate Gros Michel bananas, but practically all plantations growing that particular crop were wiped out in the space of 30 years by Panama Disease. Cavendish was the response - it was Panama Disease resistant, but about 15 years ago the disease started attacking Cavendish crops. The concern is that this means we're a decade or two away from losing Cavendish and we don't have a suitable replacement (because, as people have said in this thread, other bananas aren't as tasty to Western palettes). To post "Nah, there's no problem" shows you don't quite understand that problem, and to cite that you've seen a few big banana plantations as evidence that the problem isn't a real one just compounds the issue. If Panama Disease mutates to attack the plantations you saw they could all be gone in a decade. That's how virulent the disease is. It is a problem.
- DennisP 7y ago
  Are those Cavendish bananas in Vietnam? If they're another variety consumed locally, that wouldn't contradict the article's claims: > Although thousands of banana varieties grow around the world, only a few have the precise characteristics necessary to withstand the rigors of large-scale commercial cultivation, long-distance transport, and international marketing. A banana with those characteristics, a taste and appearance similar to the beloved Cavendish, and resistance to TR4 does not exist.
ptah 7y ago
yip, and they are about to become a cautionary tale about GMO it seems. monoculture was once the height of scientific farming techniques. unintended consequences seems to be an unknown consequence of scientism, the religious zealotry that some have for science
- chr1 7y ago
  They have potential to become the first widely used GMO, as it will be easy to add immunity to this fungus with a small CRISPR edit.
  - ptah 7y ago
    that edit will have other consequences for the plant as well as there is no gene that specifically controls susceptibility to this fungus
  - Retric 7y ago
    Many GMO’s are very common already. 1/2 of all soybeans are GMO.
    - ptah 7y ago
      hopefully it won't lead to catastrophe https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin-says-black-swan-author-e8836fa7d78 https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/genetically-modifi...
iacutone 7y ago
Platanos de la isla in Peru have an interesting flavor.
omaranto 7y ago
I don't get all this talk about "insipid Cavendish". Am I the only one that thinks Cavendish bananas are delicious? Yes, it's true that every other variety I've tried is better (I live in Mexico and we have several varieties of banana and plantain available), but even being the worst kind of banana I still think the Cavendish is very tasty. When people say it's insipid do they just mean compared to other bananas (in which case I agree)? Are they not eating them ripe or something? Or am I just too easy to please fruit-wise?
- deadmetheny 7y ago
  In my experience it's just that other varieties just taste better. The Cavendish isn't bad, strictly speaking, it's just grown because it ships and stores very well.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  > Yes, it's true that every other variety I've tried is better What was the question again? You might want to place those Cavendish ones on the oven with a little of butter, or to fry them. They are unbeatable on that format, but are pretty bland otherwise.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    We used to wrap them in tin foil and put them on the barbecue while we ate the main course. Lovely.
  - omaranto 7y ago
    For both baking and frying in butter, I prefer plantains (so I wouldn't say Cavendish is unbeatable in those formats).
- yardie 7y ago
  > Am I the only one that thinks Cavendish bananas are delicious? I don't have a problem with them. But they way they are grown is highly hit or miss. Yes, Cavendishes may all look similar. But the worst and best tasting banana I've ever had was in highschool and from a local grocer. I don't think most people have had a proper ripe cavendish. They get what the supermarket has told them is a ripe cavendish. And this yellow, starchy, pulp really is a banana. So they assume the Cavendish is not a good tasting banana.
coliveira 7y ago
This is something that got me surprised when I came to the US: every banana is the same kind. Back home I used to have several kinds of bananas, each kind tasting like real fruits. US bananas have a bland taste, and always seem like they're still green (which is the case, because they become ripe by chemical processes).

by sn41 7y ago

latchkey 7y ago

I currently live in Vietnam, but was recently traveling around Laos by motorbike. The bananas there are almost inedible... they taste awful. I found it fascinating how different they were compared with Vietnamese bananas. That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationalist news.

JackDrury 7y ago
Are you sure they weren't cooking bananas (plantains)?
- latchkey 7y ago
  Yes
himlion 7y ago
Interesting, I was just going to say how varied and incredibly tasty the local Lao bananas are. I wonder if we have different taste or you've tried different ones than I have. The ones I like best are the very small "good smelling bananas" (ກ້ວຍຫອມ).
- latchkey 7y ago
  I found that when you first bite into the outside, it was good, but as you got into the center, it had a very bad taste that ruined the experience of the outside. It was a weird and totally unexpected thing for me since I normally love bananas. I tried stopping at several different vendors (stands) on the roadside to make sure it wasn't just one. I was mostly north of Vientiane, so maybe the southern ones are better.
  - fouc 7y ago
    There's definitely a few different strains of bananas in asia, it's not uncommon to see 2-3 different types of bananas being sold right next to each other in the markets. The most obvious indicator to me is the size of the individual bananas, the smaller ones taste pretty weird to me. OH, and also I assume there's a bit of a taste difference with the bananas we're used to because they weren't dosed in Ethlyene to hasten the ripening. (In western countries the grocery warehouse has a room for spraying bananas in ethlyene before delivering to the grocery stores)
    - ferzul 7y ago
      2-3 doesn't sound like much, even in australia we have that
      - abrugsch 7y ago
        In the UK we don't. you have to hunt pretty hard to find a banana that isn't a cavendish (or a plantain) In fact I don't think I've ever seen a second variety since i've started looking... (probably in the wrong markets, but that's kind of my point)
        tempguy9999 7y ago
        Sure they do. I live in london. Go to shepherd's bush market[0] and you can find cooking bananas like plantain, bluggo and matoke (my fave), and for desert bananas you can find fig/monkey bananas, red bananas and I think I've seen more. Go somewhere caribbean oriented and you'll have a better chance. Plus you'll find other unusual stuff too. [0] worth it just for being the polar opposite of a sterile, well ordered, monoculture of a supermarket. It's fab. (Edit: I didn't read your comment properly so my reply isn't so relevant)
onion2k 7y ago
That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationalist news. "I can't see the problem with my own eyes so I don't think there's a problem." is exactly the sort of thinking that leads to climate denial and anti-vaxx nonsense. Unless you've spent a lot of time and effort understanding the banana industry you simply aren't qualified to make that judgement.
- latchkey 7y ago
  Wow, that is a stretch to loop my thinking in with both of those movements. I am not even close to that nonsense. Of course I'm no expert, but this whole banana disappearance story has been going on for many years, yet we still have bananas. There is not even close to a shortage of bananas. It reminds me of the Helium is running out stories. Let me also remind you that the story is talking about a specific strain and my comment was clearly not about that strain. I could also say... unless you've driven 8500km all over Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos and seen first hand the millions of banana trees, your thinking might be constrained to some one sitting behind a keyboard.
  - javert 7y ago
    > Let me also remind you that the story is talking about a specific strain and my comment was clearly not about that strain. Since TR4 has reportedly been present in Southeast Asia for quite a while, sighting a ton of TR4-vulnerable bananas growing there would be evidence that the story is sensationalized. But if the bananas you saw are TR4-resistant, your anecdote isn't really relevant at all. In that case, or if you don't know which case it is, you really can't justifiably say that the article is sensationalized.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    There is not even close to a shortage of bananas. IANABE (I am not a banana expert) but I know that no one suggested there is a shortage right now. What's threatened is the world's supply of Cavendish bananas which is what every Western country imports. Prior to that everyone ate Gros Michel bananas, but practically all plantations growing that particular crop were wiped out in the space of 30 years by Panama Disease. Cavendish was the response - it was Panama Disease resistant, but about 15 years ago the disease started attacking Cavendish crops. The concern is that this means we're a decade or two away from losing Cavendish and we don't have a suitable replacement (because, as people have said in this thread, other bananas aren't as tasty to Western palettes). To post "Nah, there's no problem" shows you don't quite understand that problem, and to cite that you've seen a few big banana plantations as evidence that the problem isn't a real one just compounds the issue. If Panama Disease mutates to attack the plantations you saw they could all be gone in a decade. That's how virulent the disease is. It is a problem.
DennisP 7y ago
Are those Cavendish bananas in Vietnam? If they're another variety consumed locally, that wouldn't contradict the article's claims: > Although thousands of banana varieties grow around the world, only a few have the precise characteristics necessary to withstand the rigors of large-scale commercial cultivation, long-distance transport, and international marketing. A banana with those characteristics, a taste and appearance similar to the beloved Cavendish, and resistance to TR4 does not exist.

ptah 7y ago

yip, and they are about to become a cautionary tale about GMO it seems. monoculture was once the height of scientific farming techniques. unintended consequences seems to be an unknown consequence of scientism, the religious zealotry that some have for science

chr1 7y ago
They have potential to become the first widely used GMO, as it will be easy to add immunity to this fungus with a small CRISPR edit.
- ptah 7y ago
  that edit will have other consequences for the plant as well as there is no gene that specifically controls susceptibility to this fungus
- Retric 7y ago
  Many GMO’s are very common already. 1/2 of all soybeans are GMO.
  - ptah 7y ago
    hopefully it won't lead to catastrophe https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin-says-black-swan-author-e8836fa7d78 https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/genetically-modifi...

iacutone 7y ago

Platanos de la isla in Peru have an interesting flavor.

omaranto 7y ago

I don't get all this talk about "insipid Cavendish". Am I the only one that thinks Cavendish bananas are delicious? Yes, it's true that every other variety I've tried is better (I live in Mexico and we have several varieties of banana and plantain available), but even being the worst kind of banana I still think the Cavendish is very tasty. When people say it's insipid do they just mean compared to other bananas (in which case I agree)? Are they not eating them ripe or something? Or am I just too easy to please fruit-wise?

deadmetheny 7y ago
In my experience it's just that other varieties just taste better. The Cavendish isn't bad, strictly speaking, it's just grown because it ships and stores very well.
marcosdumay 7y ago
> Yes, it's true that every other variety I've tried is better What was the question again? You might want to place those Cavendish ones on the oven with a little of butter, or to fry them. They are unbeatable on that format, but are pretty bland otherwise.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  We used to wrap them in tin foil and put them on the barbecue while we ate the main course. Lovely.
- omaranto 7y ago
  For both baking and frying in butter, I prefer plantains (so I wouldn't say Cavendish is unbeatable in those formats).
yardie 7y ago
> Am I the only one that thinks Cavendish bananas are delicious? I don't have a problem with them. But they way they are grown is highly hit or miss. Yes, Cavendishes may all look similar. But the worst and best tasting banana I've ever had was in highschool and from a local grocer. I don't think most people have had a proper ripe cavendish. They get what the supermarket has told them is a ripe cavendish. And this yellow, starchy, pulp really is a banana. So they assume the Cavendish is not a good tasting banana.

coliveira 7y ago

This is something that got me surprised when I came to the US: every banana is the same kind. Back home I used to have several kinds of bananas, each kind tasting like real fruits. US bananas have a bland taste, and always seem like they're still green (which is the case, because they become ripe by chemical processes).