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This finding is in line with my intuition. Social exclusion triggers an instinct in the male brain: become something, something higher status, or die. It is “ev
by mjfl 7y ago
This finding is in line with my intuition. Social exclusion triggers an instinct in the male brain: become something, something higher status, or die. It is “evolutionarily accurate” - socially excluded males do not reproduce. Men who are okay with being excluded literally died out. This instinct probably drives productivity around the world, causes men to be startup founders as well as terrorists and school shooters.
- rexpop 7y agoIf by the "male" brain, you mean the "male-socialized" brain, and not "instinct" but socialization, then we're in agreement. It certainly impugns the societal value of "productivity". > If men were natural-born killers, hardwired by biology and destiny to take life, then there would be no need for patriarchal socialization to turn them into killers. > In patriarchal culture males are not allowed simply to be who they are and to glory in their unique identity. Their value is always determined by what they do. In an antipatriarchal culture males do not have to prove their value and worth. — bell hooks
- ummonk 7y agoNo, GP means male brain and instinct. Male-socialized female brains don't act the same way, because they have different instincts.
- rexpop 7y agoYou're wrong about brains. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035246030500061184.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035246030500061184.html
- username90 7y agoThe argument is that men are hard wired to create a splash, not to kill. Murder creates a huge splash, but you can do it in other ways such as saving lives, getting rich, becoming a leader, mastering a craft or furthering human knowledge.
- watwut 7y agoThe article is about extremists, not about mass shooters. Most of them wont murder, they do day to day organizing work for few murderers.
- marvin 7y agoBut even so, hard though it is to admit for us children of peace-time, being an accomplished killer of «the enemy» is a high-status achievement in itself, in time of war. Enough so that it’s easy to imagine an evolutionary tendency that can be triggered under extreme distress. You just have to go back to WWII (if that!) to find obvious examples of this. Killers such as Richard Winters and Ronald Speirs are celebrated in history and fiction even today, 70 years later. And convicted (male) mass-murderers have a tendency to receive an unexpected amount of attention from certain women, so even from that perspective this seems like an understandable evolutionary adaption. Certainly not morally defensible, but nature doesn’t give a shit. It’s horrifying, but not incomprehensible.
- watwut 7y agoWhat does that have to do with ordinary extremist that is cog in a machine, does no splash whatsoever and have no status whatsoever? And yes, in societies that reward cruelty and killing, cruelty will be high and so will killings. Convicted male mass-murderers and soldiers are not really comparable. Convicted male mass murderers were not all that succesfull in having and keeping girlfriends until caught and locked. Just about only having a lot of children were the ones that run cult too.
- malcolmgreaves 7y agoHow is this at all unique to one sex? Any excluded human would die out and not reproduce. Any high quality evidence for your large claim that purports a biological-only difference in social patterns between male and female humans?
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y agoThe theory is that females find it much easier to initiate reproduction (although the process is far more work for them once started). Also through large parts of human history females were treated as chattel and weren't subjected to the same pressures as males.
- BadassFractal 7y agoSomething about how only one in two males reproduce, but on average every human female has offspring?
- chii 7y agoso this implies that some men reproduce with more women than they "should", thus causing problems?
- hombre_fatal 7y agoIt refers to the fact that there are men excluded who are left to yearn from the sidelines.
- chosenbreed37 7y agoIt could also point to the possibility (and in some some cases a confirmed fact) that some men are raising kids that they didn't sire.
- david-cako 7y agoOne piece of evidence is that men have a flatter distribution of outcomes and more often than women are falling off either end of the chart, for better and worse. All it takes is a look at those OkCupid studies for rating distributions to see how much larger the difference is between success and failure for men. This problem is not exclusive to men, but affects more men. Women more often have an expectation of mating upwards, and high status women have a similar problem of finding themselves excluded.
- xwdv 7y agoI have found myself socially excluded most of my life. I see the world mostly as a hostile place, and easily get a feeling that people do not like me. Though I have obtained a good status in life by some metrics, what good is it if the world is so toxic to me?
- david-cako 7y agoVery good question, and the only justification I can come up with is the opportunity to beam truth out from within. This at some times more than others seems like enough, if no one else takes responsibility. We are hard wired to seek meaning and protect the will.
- alexis_fr 7y agoI’ve sold my first startup and the second is a great success, multimillionaire and I have a Youtube channel talking about men’s issues where dozens of thousands of boys (and benevolent women) learn and talk about men’s issues. But the only people I wanted to be listened by were my family, for support in dealing with women, and that will never happen. I have the exact same vision as you: I can’t work in a company because I feel directly hated by the diversity programs (funnily enough, I hire women). Success and money is not happiness and life is... very ironic sometimes.
- Roritharr 7y agoNot sure why you are downvoted. Thank you for sharing, I don't think you troll as some of my younger employees shared the same feeling of disenfranchisment in their 1:1's. Even if the view of being othered by diversity programs etc. is a little bit skewed, it's definitely having an impact in their psychology, as it's an easy scapegoat for why a raise was not given, a talk got rejected, etc. etc. The actual cases numbers of these things happening must be much much smaller, but that's beside the point, as it's the psychological aspect that's ruining their perception of themselves and what society expects from them.
- pavlov 7y agoIf someone's perception of themself is ruined by the notion that they're not the center of the world and people of other backgrounds deserve consideration too, then it sounds like these people need to be exposed to more diversity programs, not less.
- Causality1 7y agoStudies on the flattened bell curve for male achievement would seem to support your intuition.
- hos234 7y agoTop mind at work here. How can we isolate it and increase world productivity?
- chii 7y agothe old, tried and true way was to introduce slavery. The men work, and work, and after a long enough time, and having worked long enough, is granted a women to reproduce with (and their offspring is also a slave - thus perpetuating the cycle). Modern sensibilities cannot accept this method of increasing productivity.
- throwaway3627 7y agoThere seems to be a common mania state of irrational exuberance with unrealistic hopefulness. It has many examples: people in love, positive/devout Christians, big-idea startup startup and even residents of Raqqa under the Islamic State playing in the river Tigris, unreasonably hopeful about their future. To bring the point home, unrealistic hopefulness or hopelessness sets a person up for failure. Whether they internalize any resulting failures into bitter anomie and desire for omni/suicide depends on an individual's coping skills, ideology and social support (or lack of each thereof). Combine a lack of hope, opportunities and many negative experiences leads to angry people who take their pain and loneliness, and wish to lash out.
- buboard 7y agoI m not entirely convinced if the pressure is evolutionary or social. There seems to be a range of attitudes, from social rejection of the unmarried, to indifference and demographic catastrophe
- dwd 7y agoI have a theory (half-formed) that we are seeing the results of our always connected society, and a shrinking crowded world and there's no way to escape. Where a young man could once pack his bags and leave on a grand adventure and start a new life where noone knew him are long gone. He could join the military or sail the seas and see the world and noone cared where he came from and there was no way to know either. But that time is past.
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoI don't believe it is, but it requires one to disconnect from the internet - and their families / social circles. But I get what you mean, it used to be there was no way to contact the people you left behind except for maybe letters or a phonecall from time to time. Nowadays there's a satellite internet connection with the home front when you're deployed out there.
- dwd 7y agoMaybe a one-way trip to Mars could be the way to start a new life if your current situation sucks?
- crankylinuxuser 7y agoMost of the time, when you run from your problems, the problems run just as fast. The problems are with your own state of mind. They are issues you haven't adequately addressed. And no amount of running will get them to 'go away'. I know, cause I had similar, and had to confront them head on. And, I was successful.
- dwd 7y agoThat is true to an extent, but to solve some problems a change of location can make a difference. Breaking destructive habits is one as they can be triggered by returning to the location where you previously engaged in that activity. Sure, return once you've got a new habit/routine in place and can confidently confront the old.
- _0ffh 7y agoI'm sure I once read about a study that indicated something related: The more things I shove into your face that I have (and you don't) the more likely you are to become criminal to get them too.
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoFOMO? It's definitely a thing, a big one is piracy - a feeling that you HAVE to watch e.g. Game of Thrones as soon as possible because else you're missing out on the hype, the ability to talk with people about it, and if you're not fast (or disconnected from social media) you'll get major spoilers hitting you unexpectedly. I mean I haven't watched Endgame yet because my family is still catching up but I've had all of the major plot points already spoiled thanks to my Reddit addiction. That kinda sucks.
- vintermann 7y agoA good example of where reaching for biological explanations for behavior is unnecessary, because the logic of the situation already does a perfectly adequate job of explaining the behavior. A woman facing the same pressures is plenty capable of "burning down villages to feel their warmth" too. Maybe a few percent less? Who cares? "We act this way because our ancestors were hunted by sabre-toothed tigers" might sound deep, but what if the sabre-toothed tigers are still around? If so, then maybe it's better to do something about the sabre-toothed tigers, than to expect people to change their behaviour.