7 ms·

Fascinating that the second reply (or second best reply?) is an unreasonably angry response: Who the hell needs all this .. Get lost [angry emoji]

ghaff 7y ago
There are a fair number of people who seem to take personal offense that the US (and to some degree the UK) don't use SI for everyday types of things and add it to their laundry list of grievances about the US generally. Never mind the fact that SI is generally used for engineering and other areas where it has legitimate advantages (which miles vs. kilometers doesn't really in day-to-day life).
- yholio 7y ago
  And there are a fair number of people who seem to take personal offense that SI units exist in any form or fashion, perturbing the natural way of the world. We can't really know to what category this one belongs to.
  - sudmh 7y ago
    The guy seems Indian so he probably belongs to the "confused about existing" category
- nesadi 7y ago
  > that SI is generally used for engineering Except when it isn't? Are you telling me SI is used in engineering everywhere in the US? I've heard too many stories (especially accidents) to believe that in any way.
  - toolslive 7y ago
    don't they still use pounds per square inch ? Now, in Europe (excluding the UK) they also still use some weird units from the past. Calories for example, and horse (!!) power.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      PSI is very commonplace though I'm not in a field where I use it in an engineering way. (I actually had to think for a second to come up with the SI equivalent.) Pounds are one of the real bugbears of imperial in mechanical engineering with lb-f and slugs (i.e. "pounds" conflates mass and weight). Always hated that. I'd convert things to metric and then convert back when I had to work in Imperial. And I still hear stones from time to time in the UK if you really want archaic.
      - Accacin 7y ago
        Yeah, a lot of people in the UK use stones for weight. Even young people in my experience.
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      We still use PSI for tyre pressures in UK, probably some other things too. They're given in N/m^2, but all the petrol station machines are in PSI, probably because the numbers just fall better.
      - xxs 7y ago
        I thought they were given in bars instead of N/m^2.
        pbhjpbhj 7y ago
        Aye, could be. Just checked my manual and they're in KPa and Bar.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      A calorie was originally defined as as the amount of heat required at a pressure of 1 standard atmosphere to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water 1° Celsius. But you're right that is sort of a weird unit from the past insofar as it's related to the SI system but isn't formally part of it. (It's basically now defined by its ratio to joules.)
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Nope. Hence generally. I haven't made a study of it but I assume Imperial units are more common in civil engineering and other areas that converge with local construction and building trades. Metric is pretty standard in my experience more broadly. (Note also that the better known examples of unit conversion accidents are pretty old as far as I know.)
  - regularfry 7y ago
    On the UK railways, I think I'm right in saying that the only place imperial units are used is in measuring the curvature of track, which involves chains.
- jedberg 7y ago
  > which miles vs. kilometers doesn't really in day-to-day life Standard units are much more useful in carpentry. It's a lot easier when you can divide by 2,3,4, and 6.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Yep. Factoring is useful in a lot of cases. Also, although not strictly a debate around metric, the Fahrenheit scale gives you more granularity without going to decimals and requires less use of negative numbers on a day to day basis. And, if one is really concerned about a scientifically relevant temperature scale, we'd be using Kelvin, not Celsius.
    - ciceryadam 7y ago
      Kelvin IS Celsius, only starts at absolute zero. 0 C is 273 Kelvin, and 0 Kelvin is -273 Celsius. You add 273 to any Celsius measurement, and voila, it's Kelvin.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        No. That's actually not quite correct. You add 273.15... The size of the degree is the same of course. My point is that if you want to use a "correct" scientific measurement on a day to day basis you'd use Kelvin. As soon as you're converting, you're converting whether from Celsius or Fahrenheit. ADDED: There's an argument for Celsius vs. Fahrenheit of course in so far as the size of the degree is baked into some other SI measurements. But there's no particular other reason that Celsius is superior on a day to day basis other than familiarity for some. There's some logic to basing easy to remember numerical points around water properties but it's not clear that actually has a lot of advantages for day-to-day questions about how hot or how cold it is.
        drucik 7y ago
        The fact that degree is the same means that energetically 1 degree C is equal to 1K. So when doing scientific calculations, for example to calculate energy needed to change the temp by X, they are the same. The fact that the scale is based on water properties seem to be just so values are easier to relate to. We are water based, after all. Can anyone provide any reason to use Fahrenheit scale, apart from historical ones? Legit question.
- sergioj97 7y ago
  I agree it's not worth the hate, but in my opinion SI units are much more convenient. Using your own example, miles vs kilometers may not feel like a big difference, but the fact that you have proportional units (mm, cm, m, km) for any possible distance has the potential to save you a lot of trouble. Having completely different units for the same thing (land miles / nautical miles for distance), usually not proportional between them, is less practical than the SI at every level. Not only for an engineer but also for home owners and almost everyone of us. I understand why there are some places in the world where they still use systems other than the SI, mainly for legacy reasons. But I think the practical benefits of a more coherent (and standard) unit system exist not only for the engineer.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    That's fair enough. Whatever the advantages of Imperial in some narrow contexts, I'm not sure very many would argue for them absent legacy. On the other hand, it's pretty much an academic debate because a switch isn't happening for mainstream use. The desire and political will just aren't there. The little push that once existed is essentially gone whatever some tech types might want.
    - rocqua 7y ago
      I like arguing for arcane standards, and there are aspects of the imperial system I like. Specifically, I tend to advocate for a base 12 system based arround the inch. Base 12 because the very structured multiplication table, which also makes for easy dividing. The inch because I find my lengtg estimation accuracy to be better captured by inches.
      - Moru 7y ago
        Your length estimation accuracy is dependent on what you used more.
        rocqua 7y ago
        I have never used inches outside screen diagonals. Yet I still feel inches better match my accuracy. My actual accuracy in inches is horrible though, because I never get into contact with them.

ghaff 7y ago

There are a fair number of people who seem to take personal offense that the US (and to some degree the UK) don't use SI for everyday types of things and add it to their laundry list of grievances about the US generally. Never mind the fact that SI is generally used for engineering and other areas where it has legitimate advantages (which miles vs. kilometers doesn't really in day-to-day life).

yholio 7y ago
And there are a fair number of people who seem to take personal offense that SI units exist in any form or fashion, perturbing the natural way of the world. We can't really know to what category this one belongs to.
- sudmh 7y ago
  The guy seems Indian so he probably belongs to the "confused about existing" category
nesadi 7y ago
> that SI is generally used for engineering Except when it isn't? Are you telling me SI is used in engineering everywhere in the US? I've heard too many stories (especially accidents) to believe that in any way.
- toolslive 7y ago
  don't they still use pounds per square inch ? Now, in Europe (excluding the UK) they also still use some weird units from the past. Calories for example, and horse (!!) power.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    PSI is very commonplace though I'm not in a field where I use it in an engineering way. (I actually had to think for a second to come up with the SI equivalent.) Pounds are one of the real bugbears of imperial in mechanical engineering with lb-f and slugs (i.e. "pounds" conflates mass and weight). Always hated that. I'd convert things to metric and then convert back when I had to work in Imperial. And I still hear stones from time to time in the UK if you really want archaic.
    - Accacin 7y ago
      Yeah, a lot of people in the UK use stones for weight. Even young people in my experience.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    We still use PSI for tyre pressures in UK, probably some other things too. They're given in N/m^2, but all the petrol station machines are in PSI, probably because the numbers just fall better.
    - xxs 7y ago
      I thought they were given in bars instead of N/m^2.
      - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
        Aye, could be. Just checked my manual and they're in KPa and Bar.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    A calorie was originally defined as as the amount of heat required at a pressure of 1 standard atmosphere to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water 1° Celsius. But you're right that is sort of a weird unit from the past insofar as it's related to the SI system but isn't formally part of it. (It's basically now defined by its ratio to joules.)
- ghaff 7y ago
  Nope. Hence generally. I haven't made a study of it but I assume Imperial units are more common in civil engineering and other areas that converge with local construction and building trades. Metric is pretty standard in my experience more broadly. (Note also that the better known examples of unit conversion accidents are pretty old as far as I know.)
- regularfry 7y ago
  On the UK railways, I think I'm right in saying that the only place imperial units are used is in measuring the curvature of track, which involves chains.
jedberg 7y ago
> which miles vs. kilometers doesn't really in day-to-day life Standard units are much more useful in carpentry. It's a lot easier when you can divide by 2,3,4, and 6.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Yep. Factoring is useful in a lot of cases. Also, although not strictly a debate around metric, the Fahrenheit scale gives you more granularity without going to decimals and requires less use of negative numbers on a day to day basis. And, if one is really concerned about a scientifically relevant temperature scale, we'd be using Kelvin, not Celsius.
  - ciceryadam 7y ago
    Kelvin IS Celsius, only starts at absolute zero. 0 C is 273 Kelvin, and 0 Kelvin is -273 Celsius. You add 273 to any Celsius measurement, and voila, it's Kelvin.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      No. That's actually not quite correct. You add 273.15... The size of the degree is the same of course. My point is that if you want to use a "correct" scientific measurement on a day to day basis you'd use Kelvin. As soon as you're converting, you're converting whether from Celsius or Fahrenheit. ADDED: There's an argument for Celsius vs. Fahrenheit of course in so far as the size of the degree is baked into some other SI measurements. But there's no particular other reason that Celsius is superior on a day to day basis other than familiarity for some. There's some logic to basing easy to remember numerical points around water properties but it's not clear that actually has a lot of advantages for day-to-day questions about how hot or how cold it is.
      - drucik 7y ago
        The fact that degree is the same means that energetically 1 degree C is equal to 1K. So when doing scientific calculations, for example to calculate energy needed to change the temp by X, they are the same. The fact that the scale is based on water properties seem to be just so values are easier to relate to. We are water based, after all. Can anyone provide any reason to use Fahrenheit scale, apart from historical ones? Legit question.
sergioj97 7y ago
I agree it's not worth the hate, but in my opinion SI units are much more convenient. Using your own example, miles vs kilometers may not feel like a big difference, but the fact that you have proportional units (mm, cm, m, km) for any possible distance has the potential to save you a lot of trouble. Having completely different units for the same thing (land miles / nautical miles for distance), usually not proportional between them, is less practical than the SI at every level. Not only for an engineer but also for home owners and almost everyone of us. I understand why there are some places in the world where they still use systems other than the SI, mainly for legacy reasons. But I think the practical benefits of a more coherent (and standard) unit system exist not only for the engineer.
- ghaff 7y ago
  That's fair enough. Whatever the advantages of Imperial in some narrow contexts, I'm not sure very many would argue for them absent legacy. On the other hand, it's pretty much an academic debate because a switch isn't happening for mainstream use. The desire and political will just aren't there. The little push that once existed is essentially gone whatever some tech types might want.
  - rocqua 7y ago
    I like arguing for arcane standards, and there are aspects of the imperial system I like. Specifically, I tend to advocate for a base 12 system based arround the inch. Base 12 because the very structured multiplication table, which also makes for easy dividing. The inch because I find my lengtg estimation accuracy to be better captured by inches.
    - Moru 7y ago
      Your length estimation accuracy is dependent on what you used more.
      - rocqua 7y ago
        I have never used inches outside screen diagonals. Yet I still feel inches better match my accuracy. My actual accuracy in inches is horrible though, because I never get into contact with them.