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Well templates do let you do just about everything being a meta-programming language - however libraries rarely use them and they are very complicated to implem

Well templates do let you do just about everything being a meta-programming language - however libraries rarely use them and they are very complicated to implement yourself. I've not found static typing to be a big productivity win. I think it disallows a small subset of bugs. Like most people I've been a C++ programmer because it was the highest performance language with the best support for operating and window systems. I'm gleefully looking forward to it playing a smaller and smaller part of my programming work.

timr 18y ago
These strong-typing/weak-typing debates are the programmer's equivalent of skirt-length trends. The strong type system of C++ was a direct reaction to the deficiencies of the cast-happy, C-style of coding that came before; now we're back to dynamic typing. Ten years from now, after this generation of college grads has been burned while using the latest silver bullet for real projects, we'll be back to something more static. And around we go... Anyone who experienced the C->C++ transition can tell horror stories about problems due to the (ab)use of C's type system in real code...and C wasn't even that weak! Even Perl coders have learned this lesson the hard way (hence the introduction of "use strict"). But I digress. Maybe you're right, and strong typing doesn't matter that much for the new generation of apps. My instinct however, is that the current hipness of dynamic typing is a (somewhat justified) over-reaction to the ugliness of C++. Meanwhile, a lot of babies are being thrown out with a little bit of bathwater....
- greendestiny 18y ago
  Wasn't really my point, I just took the diversion to talk about static typing. If static typing comes back as the thing I think C++ will still be crap. I think the productivity gains in the language I mentioned have everything to do with built in list types, first class functions, closures and anonymous functions. Good libraries built on those things help a lot as well.
- jimbokun 18y ago
  I think better type inferencing may bring strong typing back in vogue. I think what really makes programming in a "dynamic" language significantly more pleasant is not having to type (on the keyboard) type (int, Object, etc.) declarations. A strictly, statically typed language with a good type inferencing engine, like Scala or Haskell, makes a lot of this go away. I understand (though don't have enough experience to verify) that there are times that the type inferencing occasionally makes things harder when you get a type error and can't identify its source. But certainly a win overall compared to explicit types everywhere.

timr 18y ago

These strong-typing/weak-typing debates are the programmer's equivalent of skirt-length trends. The strong type system of C++ was a direct reaction to the deficiencies of the cast-happy, C-style of coding that came before; now we're back to dynamic typing. Ten years from now, after this generation of college grads has been burned while using the latest silver bullet for real projects, we'll be back to something more static. And around we go... Anyone who experienced the C->C++ transition can tell horror stories about problems due to the (ab)use of C's type system in real code...and C wasn't even that weak! Even Perl coders have learned this lesson the hard way (hence the introduction of "use strict"). But I digress. Maybe you're right, and strong typing doesn't matter that much for the new generation of apps. My instinct however, is that the current hipness of dynamic typing is a (somewhat justified) over-reaction to the ugliness of C++. Meanwhile, a lot of babies are being thrown out with a little bit of bathwater....

greendestiny 18y ago
Wasn't really my point, I just took the diversion to talk about static typing. If static typing comes back as the thing I think C++ will still be crap. I think the productivity gains in the language I mentioned have everything to do with built in list types, first class functions, closures and anonymous functions. Good libraries built on those things help a lot as well.
jimbokun 18y ago
I think better type inferencing may bring strong typing back in vogue. I think what really makes programming in a "dynamic" language significantly more pleasant is not having to type (on the keyboard) type (int, Object, etc.) declarations. A strictly, statically typed language with a good type inferencing engine, like Scala or Haskell, makes a lot of this go away. I understand (though don't have enough experience to verify) that there are times that the type inferencing occasionally makes things harder when you get a type error and can't identify its source. But certainly a win overall compared to explicit types everywhere.