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The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting w

The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
> now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service. Only until Uber and Lyft run out of cash (a few more quarters based on cash on hand), at which point taxi fares will rise to properly reflect the actual cost of the service. People will choose a combination of walking, public transit, traditional cab companies, and perhaps an e-scooter and/or bicycle. We lived before Uber and Lyft, we'll live after them. Fun experiment while it lasted.
- beeneuf 7y ago
  After my experiences having grown up with cabs, I am honestly willing to pay a significant premium to use Uber and Lyft. It is not an understatement to say that I hate traditional taxis. I hate the terrible service. I hate having them refuse fares based on where I'm going. I hate calling to schedule a pickup in advance and the driver just not bothering to show up. I hate being pressured to pay in cash instead of credit card and having them berate and insult me when I insist on card. I hate having to be on alert to see if they're taking a deliberately longer route or running up the meter. I hate the verbal and sexual harassment they have doled out to me and my friends with no consequences, because there is absolutely nothing in their business model that provides them any incentive to treat their customers with courtesy and respect. I want to see taxis crash and burn, I want to see them fail, I want to see them removed from my experience on this earth. I don't think I'm alone in that, and I will continue to use Uber and Lyft and pay far more than taxis because they provide an exceptionally better service. Also Uber Pool/Lyft Line are brilliant and taxis will never bother to replicate that kind of efficiency.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    With all due respect (I can appreciate paying more for quality, I do so myself!), there are not enough of you to justify rideshare valuations (which are based on taking over the world, not being a boutique transportation network for the discerning mobility user).
    - beeneuf 7y ago
      Agreed, their current valuations cannot be justified. I'd argue the same can be said of most tech companies right now, though. At some point the markets are going to have to acknowledge that taking over the world/infinite growth is just not going to happen for all (or any) of the companies promising it, and some incredibly disappointing and painful market adjustments will have to be made. I am hoping some rideshare companies - or similar competitors - can ride it out and eventually settle into something more realistic with higher fares, because I believe the market is there. I think the world in general needs to start thinking about what it looks like to make sustainable companies instead of cancer-like world-conquering monoliths. It may not be a reasonable dream, though - Uber is definitely too far gone. I'm less certain about Lyft.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - switch007 7y ago
    In the past month, I and friends/family have experienced the following with Uber: - Accusations of racism - Dangerous driving - Detours/no idea where they're going - Being held hostage (took 4 very strong demands to be let out) - Given a lecture because the driver couldn't find the address and told if you don't like the service to get out. The grass isn't always greener
    - standardUser 7y ago
      I take rideshare services multiple times per week with zero problems. Maybe it has something to do with the region/city? I've had the occasional issues, and in a few cases I've gotten out and called another car. But around 98% of the time it's completely frictionless.
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  I don't believe that Uber/Lyft/Someone can't operate a ride sharing service at a profit. Taxis have done it for decades and now that the technologies have been invented, I don't see any reason Uber/Lyft can't ever be profitable. They may not be profitable enough to justify the amount of investment they've received, but they'll likely still exist in some for or another. The cat is out of the bag. Nobody is going back to taxis.
itake 7y ago
I think what he is saying is the demand for Lyft / Uber was manufactured by low prices. Now that they are more expensive, people are using public transit more.
- jonknee 7y ago
  Except total rides on both platforms are at all time highs?
  - jeromegv 7y ago
    Well they are covering more markets internationally. Wonder what happened in mature market (ie: big north american cities)
  - awakeasleep 7y ago
    So is public transit ridership
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
> People were willing to pay taxi rates all along Baloney. The market size of people willing to pay taxi rates for transportation is much smaller that the market sizes currently implied by Uber and Lyft's valuation. Before Uber and Lyft, most people I know would only take taxis very occasionally, for special occasions or emergencies. Once Uber and Lyft started offering such good rates they would use ride sharing much more often.
- TuringNYC 7y ago
  Consider pool rides -- which were never part of the traditional offerings. Pool rides from Uber/Lyft lowered cost while expanding the market. Consider all the places where you needed a taxi but wouldnt know how to hail one -- Uber/Lyft expanded the market here. I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market got expanded. It isnt all about cost.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Uber/Lyft are also great when you can expense your trips. Not having to deal with (local) cash or a constantly “broken” credit card machine are also pluses.
    - nradov 7y ago
      Uber and Lyft can now feed receipts directly into corporate expense reporting systems which is a major time saver for frequent business travelers.
      - Scoundreller 7y ago
        There are some hospital EHRs that integrate too, so you can book your patients a ride to/from. If they get there late or don’t arrive, it’s a big cost.
      - inferiorhuman 7y ago
acchow 7y ago
Uber Pool and Lyft Line opened up a new product price point for a huge number of consumers that taxis couldn't hit.
holler 7y ago
> they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service. Not sure if I agree. The convenience of the Uber/Lyft app's is still superior to a taxi service in most cases. The only time I'll take a cab is if it happens to be right in front of me and I'm in a hurry.
dcchambers 7y ago
I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features that Uber/Lyft have (card payment via app, car-tracking, etc). It's still a win for the consumer, even if you're using old school cab companies.
- zippergz 7y ago
  This is 100% true for me as well. I am, in fact, willing to pay MORE for an Uber- or Lyft-like service than for a traditional cab, because the experience is generally much better. However, I also have to acknowledge that I think I'm an outlier, because I have many friends (most of whom could easily afford it) who complain about prices every time this topic comes up. I think that as a society we'd be better off if people could truly internalize the truth of "you get what you pay for," and stop buying solely based on price, but that's not the world we live in.
- apta 7y ago
  Question is, which cab app are you going to download, especially when you're traveling? If you use Uber/Lyft (especially the former), you're practically guaranteed that you'll be able to use it at your destination.
  - vasco 7y ago
    Lyft only operates in the US, so that seems like it's not true at least for one of the two.
    - xeromal 7y ago
      Most of American's day to day travel is in the US though. The majority of us "might" travel outside the US for a week or two, but otherwise it's safe to say lyft is in the city you're traveling to.
refurb 7y ago
I agree with this. Even if rates went up to what cabs were (still cheaper in SF in my experience), I wouldn't switch back to cabs. I'd still user Uber/Lyft for the convenience and higher quality product.
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  I'm confused about people mentioning "higher quality product" and others sharing stories about riding in cars with big holes in the floor, drivers peeing in bottles, etc. Are those stories very uncommon, or does the cab market in SF etc. manage to be even less quality? Round here, a cab is at worst an 8 year old Toyota Prius, at best a new Mercedes or a Tesla, and the cab companies all have apps that let you book rides and see where the car picking you up is right now.
  - fgonzag 7y ago
    I still see some Crown Vics rolling around in El Paso
- ummonk 7y ago
  Not many people were using cabs for regular travel before Uber and Lyft though.

The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

> now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service. Only until Uber and Lyft run out of cash (a few more quarters based on cash on hand), at which point taxi fares will rise to properly reflect the actual cost of the service. People will choose a combination of walking, public transit, traditional cab companies, and perhaps an e-scooter and/or bicycle. We lived before Uber and Lyft, we'll live after them. Fun experiment while it lasted.

beeneuf 7y ago
After my experiences having grown up with cabs, I am honestly willing to pay a significant premium to use Uber and Lyft. It is not an understatement to say that I hate traditional taxis. I hate the terrible service. I hate having them refuse fares based on where I'm going. I hate calling to schedule a pickup in advance and the driver just not bothering to show up. I hate being pressured to pay in cash instead of credit card and having them berate and insult me when I insist on card. I hate having to be on alert to see if they're taking a deliberately longer route or running up the meter. I hate the verbal and sexual harassment they have doled out to me and my friends with no consequences, because there is absolutely nothing in their business model that provides them any incentive to treat their customers with courtesy and respect. I want to see taxis crash and burn, I want to see them fail, I want to see them removed from my experience on this earth. I don't think I'm alone in that, and I will continue to use Uber and Lyft and pay far more than taxis because they provide an exceptionally better service. Also Uber Pool/Lyft Line are brilliant and taxis will never bother to replicate that kind of efficiency.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  With all due respect (I can appreciate paying more for quality, I do so myself!), there are not enough of you to justify rideshare valuations (which are based on taking over the world, not being a boutique transportation network for the discerning mobility user).
  - beeneuf 7y ago
    Agreed, their current valuations cannot be justified. I'd argue the same can be said of most tech companies right now, though. At some point the markets are going to have to acknowledge that taking over the world/infinite growth is just not going to happen for all (or any) of the companies promising it, and some incredibly disappointing and painful market adjustments will have to be made. I am hoping some rideshare companies - or similar competitors - can ride it out and eventually settle into something more realistic with higher fares, because I believe the market is there. I think the world in general needs to start thinking about what it looks like to make sustainable companies instead of cancer-like world-conquering monoliths. It may not be a reasonable dream, though - Uber is definitely too far gone. I'm less certain about Lyft.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- switch007 7y ago
  In the past month, I and friends/family have experienced the following with Uber: - Accusations of racism - Dangerous driving - Detours/no idea where they're going - Being held hostage (took 4 very strong demands to be let out) - Given a lecture because the driver couldn't find the address and told if you don't like the service to get out. The grass isn't always greener
  - standardUser 7y ago
    I take rideshare services multiple times per week with zero problems. Maybe it has something to do with the region/city? I've had the occasional issues, and in a few cases I've gotten out and called another car. But around 98% of the time it's completely frictionless.
RandallBrown 7y ago
I don't believe that Uber/Lyft/Someone can't operate a ride sharing service at a profit. Taxis have done it for decades and now that the technologies have been invented, I don't see any reason Uber/Lyft can't ever be profitable. They may not be profitable enough to justify the amount of investment they've received, but they'll likely still exist in some for or another. The cat is out of the bag. Nobody is going back to taxis.

itake 7y ago

I think what he is saying is the demand for Lyft / Uber was manufactured by low prices. Now that they are more expensive, people are using public transit more.

jonknee 7y ago
Except total rides on both platforms are at all time highs?
- jeromegv 7y ago
  Well they are covering more markets internationally. Wonder what happened in mature market (ie: big north american cities)
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  So is public transit ridership

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

> People were willing to pay taxi rates all along Baloney. The market size of people willing to pay taxi rates for transportation is much smaller that the market sizes currently implied by Uber and Lyft's valuation. Before Uber and Lyft, most people I know would only take taxis very occasionally, for special occasions or emergencies. Once Uber and Lyft started offering such good rates they would use ride sharing much more often.

TuringNYC 7y ago
Consider pool rides -- which were never part of the traditional offerings. Pool rides from Uber/Lyft lowered cost while expanding the market. Consider all the places where you needed a taxi but wouldnt know how to hail one -- Uber/Lyft expanded the market here. I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market got expanded. It isnt all about cost.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Uber/Lyft are also great when you can expense your trips. Not having to deal with (local) cash or a constantly “broken” credit card machine are also pluses.
  - nradov 7y ago
    Uber and Lyft can now feed receipts directly into corporate expense reporting systems which is a major time saver for frequent business travelers.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      There are some hospital EHRs that integrate too, so you can book your patients a ride to/from. If they get there late or don’t arrive, it’s a big cost.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago

acchow 7y ago

Uber Pool and Lyft Line opened up a new product price point for a huge number of consumers that taxis couldn't hit.

holler 7y ago

> they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service. Not sure if I agree. The convenience of the Uber/Lyft app's is still superior to a taxi service in most cases. The only time I'll take a cab is if it happens to be right in front of me and I'm in a hurry.

dcchambers 7y ago

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work." Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features that Uber/Lyft have (card payment via app, car-tracking, etc). It's still a win for the consumer, even if you're using old school cab companies.

zippergz 7y ago
This is 100% true for me as well. I am, in fact, willing to pay MORE for an Uber- or Lyft-like service than for a traditional cab, because the experience is generally much better. However, I also have to acknowledge that I think I'm an outlier, because I have many friends (most of whom could easily afford it) who complain about prices every time this topic comes up. I think that as a society we'd be better off if people could truly internalize the truth of "you get what you pay for," and stop buying solely based on price, but that's not the world we live in.
apta 7y ago
Question is, which cab app are you going to download, especially when you're traveling? If you use Uber/Lyft (especially the former), you're practically guaranteed that you'll be able to use it at your destination.
- vasco 7y ago
  Lyft only operates in the US, so that seems like it's not true at least for one of the two.
  - xeromal 7y ago
    Most of American's day to day travel is in the US though. The majority of us "might" travel outside the US for a week or two, but otherwise it's safe to say lyft is in the city you're traveling to.

refurb 7y ago

I agree with this. Even if rates went up to what cabs were (still cheaper in SF in my experience), I wouldn't switch back to cabs. I'd still user Uber/Lyft for the convenience and higher quality product.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago
I'm confused about people mentioning "higher quality product" and others sharing stories about riding in cars with big holes in the floor, drivers peeing in bottles, etc. Are those stories very uncommon, or does the cab market in SF etc. manage to be even less quality? Round here, a cab is at worst an 8 year old Toyota Prius, at best a new Mercedes or a Tesla, and the cab companies all have apps that let you book rides and see where the car picking you up is right now.
- fgonzag 7y ago
  I still see some Crown Vics rolling around in El Paso
ummonk 7y ago
Not many people were using cabs for regular travel before Uber and Lyft though.