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I guess this means more Amazon Logistics deliveries, which is really a shame because that service sucks. Amazon keeps optimizing for speed but I think for most

by habosa 7y ago

I guess this means more Amazon Logistics deliveries, which is really a shame because that service sucks. Amazon keeps optimizing for speed but I think for most people they're fast enough already. And optimizing more in this one dimension could actually make the overall experience worse. I'd rather 100% reliable 2 day delivery than 85% reliable 1 day delivery but that's not where the trend is going. Reminds me of how apple pursued thin devices until they broke a fundamental part of the experience (MacBook keyboard). Sometimes you're done.

izzydata 7y ago
Reminds me of how mobile phones used to be huge and then they did everything possible to make them smaller until they were way too small and had to double back a bit. Now the same thing is happening with thickness.
- dgzl 7y ago
  Couldn't we just call this a natural way of refining the product?
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > Reminds me of how mobile phones used to be huge and then they did everything possible to make them smaller until they were way too small and had to double back a bit. Is this accurate? I was reading reviews of the Game Boy Micro a few years ago (written when the Game Boy Micro was released in the early 2000s). Many described the product as "as small as a cell phone". I found this funny—it's significantly smaller than smartphones today—including the original iPhone, by the way, which wasn't small when it came out. I'd say the trend has been towards larger phones as we've begun to use them more and more. If you use something most of your day, you don't mind so much if takes up more pocket space. You may be right in terms of thickness, although I think it's too early to call that a trend.
  - izzydata 7y ago
    I believe it to be accurate. If you look at the trend of phone sizes from the first mobile phones up to about 2008 they were only getting smaller. If the trend kept going you could easily create a mobile phone today that is way too small for all practicality. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/35/1d/f7351d374bbbb01da3391bc79c2761f2.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/35/1d/f7351d374bbbb01da339...
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      I think it's really important to separate dumb phones from smartphones (and possibly both from "feature phones"). That phone from 2000 is a perfectly reasonable size for a device that only makes calls, and in fact, it would be nice if it were smaller. Blackberries were never that small, and weren't trending downwards in a significant way.
    - Dunedan 7y ago
      Well, the trend kept going. Nowadays you can get pretty small feature phone, like the following one I just picked randomly from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/L8star-Bluetooth-Headset-Earphone-Support/dp/B07KP82TMB https://www.amazon.com/L8star-Bluetooth-Headset-Earphone-Sup...
- bobajeff 7y ago
  That makes it sound like they went too small and decided that was a mistake. What really happened was Smartphones came out. Which required a certain size just to support the UI. Then Tablets came out to bridge the gap between smartphones and laptops. So people could start using them for watching YouTube/Netflix or reading e-books. Then the Phablet came out. Which was a bridge between the phone and the tablet. So you could still watch movies and stuff but still fit the thing in your pocket.
- tannhaeuser 7y ago
  What era of mobiles do you have in mind? From my PoV, (smart) phones are getting bigger and bigger up until they cease to become all that mobile. It's why I bought an iPhone classic (not iPhone X) just the other week after a decade of Android phones.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    What era of mobiles do you have in mind Probably in the early 2000's when small equaled good. My wife had an LG phone that was so small it fit in the palm of my hand with my fingers closed. Sony sold a phone so small that it had a boom mic that swung down a couple of inches to pick up your voice. I had a SonyEricsson t68i that was 4" x 1¾" x ¾": https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_t68i-325.php https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_t68i-325.php
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    https://www.zdnet.com/product/panasonic-gd55/ https://www.zdnet.com/product/panasonic-gd55/
- mikestew 7y ago
  (EDIT: in re-reading your comment, I see that you're just trying to illustrate a point, and I'm going all pedantic. Apologies.) I currently own a phone so small that it doesn't even have a keyboard[0]. When they get the thing to fit in my ear, then I'll start to worry that they're getting too small. I'm being just a bit facetious, but in seriousness if voice-controlled AI can improve a bit, size might cease to be an issue. [0] Apple Watch, and the only thing keeping from just ditching the phone is a. battery life b. Apple's use case they designed for is not "ditch the phone".
mieseratte 7y ago
One thing I “look forward” to seeing is safety as these Amazon trucks become more widespread. The ones in my area drive like absolute maniacs. Worst thing I’ve seen UPS and FedEx do is block a bike lane.
- briandear 7y ago
  Many of those Amazon trucks are part of fairly small (compared to Fedex,) mom and pop delivery companies: they don’t have the years of process and training that Fedex has. They are essentially franchises.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    Here's a video that explains a bit about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6CveRk4N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6CveRk4N0 tl;dw: people think they're going to be "Amazon Business Partners" more like you're another cost center being squeezed as much as possible
  - heywire 7y ago
    The FedEx Ground trucks around here are also franchises, but I'm sure FedEx strictly enforces driver training, etc., since their name is on the side of the truck.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Amazon deliveries here recently transitioned from random guy's car to Amazon-branded vans. Maybe that will help.
    - howard941 7y ago
      The FedEx ground franchisees in W Central Fla are a dangerous menace. My development has a 20mph speed limit routinely flaunted @ 40mph: Without exception (we have speed cameras to prove it). Beyond, bicyclists are no obstacle. If they were employees and shared liability with FedEx these issues might not exist. But they do exist, and if Amazon can do no worse it'll be a wash for pedestrians and cyclists. At least in this part of Floriduh.
tjr 7y ago
I placed an order with Amazon last week, on Friday. Just got free shipping, no Prime, nothing. It was delivered two days later, on Sunday. Cool, thanks, but I really didn't need or expect it that fast, and I kinda feel bad for whoever may have had to work extra to get me my Friday order on Sunday...
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  On the other hand, the delivery driver who got paid to make that Sunday delivery may be grateful for the income.
  - nroach 7y ago
    ... if incremental income is tied to number of deliveries. If the driver was contractually obligated to work that day anyway, and the incremental load simply increased the time at work without an increase in compensation, then maybe not.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      I am not sure exactly how Amazon structures the pay for drivers, but even if it is time-based instead of package-based, there have to be >0 packages to deliver for the driver to get paid anything that day.
  - tjr 7y ago
    I hope so! Thanks for the alternate perspective.
- Theodores 7y ago
  If you have to deliver a parcel anyway, why delay? In the UK Second Class post is just held back a bit. It isn't like it gets sent by pack horse instead of by truck. Now you are a good sort, but your neighbour might be on the phone to them on Sunday evening saying 'I ordered this Friday, moan, moan, moan...' if it was not delivered so promptly. This would incur 20 to 30 minutes of customer service time and could possibly lose them as a customer, for them to write negative reviews and bad mouth the company. It is less work to do deliveries really promptly and have no queue to manage. Don't feel bad for the people that work to achieve this, imagine how much more miserable they would be if they had a backlog, a veritable mountain of stuff to deliver on Monday, for them to not get it all done and to be going home fretting about it. I am no fan of Amazon but I can see what they are doing.
ohples 7y ago
I tried to get something delivered to my office (I work in a office tower in the downtown of a city). We have a loading dock, logistics team, etc. Normally Fedex, UPS, etc work out the details to get the code to access the loading dock, etc and the logistics team handles getting packages to me. I got a call once from a Amazon guys saying he had my package, I went down to the lobby to see he was basically unloading a pallet of packages in our fancy lobby. Needless to say our logistics team has tried to work with Amazon to get stuff delivered right, but we still seem to have issues.
res0nat0r 7y ago
I live in an apartment complex, and just yesterday my 1 day delivery was marked as delivered and "left in parcel locker", but it isn't in my mailbox (it is too big anyway), and I have no auto-email unlock code for the Amazon locker type service they have setup in the common area, but it was marked delivered on the website. I have no way of giving feedback that the delivery drivers here are lazy and marking packages as delivered to keep up their metrics and then actually delivering them the next day. It is very annoying.
- ptmcc 7y ago
  This sort of crap happens at least 50% of the time when I get something delivered by Amazon's delivery people. Those guys are just blatantly lying about when they deliver packages, and it is getting worse not better. Very rarely ever have any issues with FedEx, UPS, or USPS. OnTrac is pretty garbage, but still better than Amazon Logistics.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Contact customer service and tell them you didn’t get it. You’ll get some credit and if this keeps happening they’ll either do something or you’ll get lots of free stuff.
  - thinkmassive 7y ago
    I agree they should contact CS, however I wouldn’t get my hopes up for credit or lots of free stuff. After many similar issues (caused by both Amazon & FedEx), and multiple hours on the phone w/Amazon CS, the best I ended up with was having them flag my account to avoid Amazon Logistics deliveries whenever possible. Now they’re usually fulfilled by UPS, and I don’t recall any issues since having the flag added.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > the best I ended up with was having them flag my account to avoid Amazon Logistics deliveries whenever possible. IIRC, Amazon.com customer support can only request the flag, but it can be denied. That's what happened to me, and I still get stuff delivered by Amazon Logistics. At least their service has improved somewhat since then.
srj 7y ago
As a customer I don't like this as I've had these guys leave packages in my driveway in pouring rain when the covered front deck was only 20 feet away. They also frequently deliver my packages to my neighbor's house and speed around like maniacs. On a societal level it's a shame that jobs that could actually support a person or family are being replaced by hustle economy types. My own parents never went to college and have worked service jobs their whole life, but could still own a house and eat dinner with us every night. They even bought a computer when I was a teenager in the 90s. I think in today's world they'd be driving for Lyft all night and I'd have grown up in a different town with a worse school system. "Your margin is my opportunity." -Jeff Bezos
- bduerst 7y ago
  I thought we were the only ones - they've left boxes sitting outdoors our apartment building even though they, like fedex and USPS, have codes to come in and put in front of our doors. What's even worse is that management put up a sign on the building entrance telling to put deliveries inside the building and they started leaving deliveries outside right in front of the sign.
- fetus8 7y ago
  I had a similar experience recently, and contacted Amazon. I talked to two separate people in two different departments, one that was supposedly a delivery logistics group. I was able to provide a statement regarding where to leave packages from now on. It's seemingly working so far, but we'll see what happens in a month or so.
  - verbatim 7y ago
    I made a similar call after an Amazon courier recently left two packages on the roadside nowhere near my house (where they are normally left at the door). They added instructions to my account indicating which door the packages should be left at. So far, about 50% of the deliveries have been at a different door, but at least they've made it to the house.
    - 7y ago
joncrane 7y ago
>Amazon keeps optimizing for speed I think they are optimizing for cost/customer satisfaction, not speed.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > I think they are optimizing for cost/customer satisfaction, not speed. Ha! I'm pretty sure they're optimizing for cost and precisely as much customer dissatisfaction that customers can take before they leave for competitors. My experiences with Amazon Logistics have not been good. Their processes and staff are inferior to USPS and UPS at least.
MikeTheGreat 7y ago
I think you're right (at least for me). I wonder if Amazon is preemptively competing with AliExpress, Alibaba, etc. Once people realize you can get stuff _even_cheaper_ from the Chinese version of Amazon it's going to be really tempting to go there instead. Pretty much the only advantage Amazon has is that they're state-side and can compete on ridiculous speed (which is gonna be really tough for people on other continents to do)
soperj 7y ago
>Reminds me of how apple pursued thin devices until they broke a fundamental part of the experience (MacBook keyboard). Sometimes you're done. For me it was when they had to solder in the ram. As soon as you can't fix or change your own device, it's a device i don't want to own.
- elsonrodriguez 7y ago
  The trend for electronics is more integration. How do I change the ram on a solid piece of smart-glass that the Sci-fi movies are promising me?
  - camelNotation 7y ago
    You don't, but the smart glass of science fiction probably doesn't have an actual stick of RAM in it either. I think the point was that the ram is still being created as a separate unit and they didn't have to solder it, but did anyway.
bsiddhant 7y ago
Amazon Logistics is still a better option than OnTrac.
- ptmcc 7y ago
  I've had a slightly better track record with OnTrac than Amazon Logistics, but they are both exceedingly terrible. Truly awful, both of them.
stcredzero 7y ago
Reminds me of how apple pursued thin devices until they broke a fundamental part of the experience (MacBook keyboard). Sometimes you're done. Sometimes, you have to know when to get out to end on a high note. American television is notorious for this. Game of Thrones and House of Cards are recent examples. The American television industry is the one that gave rise to the proto-meme of "Jumping the Shark." (On the other hand, the Japanese anime industry is notorious for often leaving people wanting more.) On the other end, Apple's biggest successes involved knowing when to wait, and when to move, so that they didn't release something which wasn't ready. Apple didn't release the first MP3 player. They didn't release the first smartphone or the first tablet. So I doubt that Amazon is "done" at 2 day delivery. However, given my experience with new Amazon services, I'd say that they've created an incentive structure for internal groups to be first, even when they're not ready to the point where they somewhat damage the brand.
- dec0dedab0de 7y ago
  They didn't release the first smartphone or the first tablet. Was there something before the Newton?
  - stcredzero 7y ago
    Yes, according to Wikipedia. Also, there's a reason why Jobs killed the Newton.
- dmix 7y ago
  I thought you were going to talk about Television industrial design (not the shows) which is another product category that's getting ridiculous because it won't get flatter. It's even starting to abandon technology/design, which they've fully tapped for variation, and is trying to make into art work these days which I guess is the end goal of all product design assuming it maintains its full utility. Some people just want a TV not a 60" framed piece of art sitting in the middle of their living room. Product differentiation for the sake of differentiation is always a dangerous game. Someone posted here the other day about "peak products" where the product reaches an ideal state which is an interesting concept! The problem is an obsession with constant newness misses stuff like privacy, customer support, longevity, etc. But they care more about having a new flashy SKU for next season which looks different. Edit: the Wikipedia for "Jumping the shark" is excellent, apparently from when Fonzie jumped over a shark in water skiis as part of a promotional gimmick on Happy Days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
chaostheory 7y ago
UPS and USPS are still mostly reliable for now. FedEx has not been reliable because they've already started to transition to 3rd party contractors a few years back. Many times FedEx shipped items are marked as "delivered" when in reality, the item is still at the warehouse.
geegoo 7y ago
I wish Amazon would add a $1-3 variable shipping charge to 2 day shipping (which is already very cheap) which gets pooled and awarded to the delivery people based on performance metrics (complaints, delivery times, damaged packages).
- qroshan 7y ago
  classic HackerNews discussing how business is run. Elitist at best.
derefr 7y ago
Amazon Logistics works just fine... when they're delivering to an Amazon Locker. I really get the impression that Locker delivery is 90% of what Amazon Logistics was built to achieve (since anything delivered to an Amazon Locker has to go through Amazon Logistics), and home delivery is just a sideline use-case that they haven't put much optimization work into. I started getting things delivered to a Locker near my office because delivery to my apartment consistently sucked regardless of carrier (drivers never tried to buzz in; stuff always ended up at the post office or back at the delivery depot.) Now that I've tried it I'm not going back. Just the fact that I can guarantee where the thing will be (no misdeliveries; no chance of theft from my front door), and pick it up immediately (no waiting in line) at any time of day (since the lockers tend to be street-accessible), makes so much difference. And that's leaving aside the fact that I've never found anything delivered to a locker to be late (on the last-mile logistics side of things, at least.) In fact, as long as such a shipment enters the country on time, I've found it to arrive faster than its projected delivery time more-often-than-not. Amazon has a solid experience with Logistics+Locker, but they haven't really marketed it very hard. Kind of surprising, really; the improved delivery experiences might do wonders for their customer retention at a time when fake Marketplace sellers are scaring customers away.
- nesadi 7y ago
  Do these lockers not exist in the US aside from the ones by Amazon? DHL lockers are everywhere in Germany.
  - kn0where 7y ago
    No, other than some apartment complexes now have their own automated lockers.
outworlder 7y ago
Hey, at least Amazon Logistics is not UPS.
sb8244 7y ago
I have had the worst experiences with Amazon logistics. Packages marked as "can not deliver" at 930pm to a building with a front desk (two days in a row). I asked them about never sending me something with Amazon logistics again and they indicated that they flipped a flag to remove it as a shipping method.

by habosa 7y ago

izzydata 7y ago

Reminds me of how mobile phones used to be huge and then they did everything possible to make them smaller until they were way too small and had to double back a bit. Now the same thing is happening with thickness.

dgzl 7y ago
Couldn't we just call this a natural way of refining the product?
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> Reminds me of how mobile phones used to be huge and then they did everything possible to make them smaller until they were way too small and had to double back a bit. Is this accurate? I was reading reviews of the Game Boy Micro a few years ago (written when the Game Boy Micro was released in the early 2000s). Many described the product as "as small as a cell phone". I found this funny—it's significantly smaller than smartphones today—including the original iPhone, by the way, which wasn't small when it came out. I'd say the trend has been towards larger phones as we've begun to use them more and more. If you use something most of your day, you don't mind so much if takes up more pocket space. You may be right in terms of thickness, although I think it's too early to call that a trend.
- izzydata 7y ago
  I believe it to be accurate. If you look at the trend of phone sizes from the first mobile phones up to about 2008 they were only getting smaller. If the trend kept going you could easily create a mobile phone today that is way too small for all practicality. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/35/1d/f7351d374bbbb01da3391bc79c2761f2.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/35/1d/f7351d374bbbb01da339...
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I think it's really important to separate dumb phones from smartphones (and possibly both from "feature phones"). That phone from 2000 is a perfectly reasonable size for a device that only makes calls, and in fact, it would be nice if it were smaller. Blackberries were never that small, and weren't trending downwards in a significant way.
  - Dunedan 7y ago
    Well, the trend kept going. Nowadays you can get pretty small feature phone, like the following one I just picked randomly from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/L8star-Bluetooth-Headset-Earphone-Support/dp/B07KP82TMB https://www.amazon.com/L8star-Bluetooth-Headset-Earphone-Sup...
bobajeff 7y ago
That makes it sound like they went too small and decided that was a mistake. What really happened was Smartphones came out. Which required a certain size just to support the UI. Then Tablets came out to bridge the gap between smartphones and laptops. So people could start using them for watching YouTube/Netflix or reading e-books. Then the Phablet came out. Which was a bridge between the phone and the tablet. So you could still watch movies and stuff but still fit the thing in your pocket.
tannhaeuser 7y ago
What era of mobiles do you have in mind? From my PoV, (smart) phones are getting bigger and bigger up until they cease to become all that mobile. It's why I bought an iPhone classic (not iPhone X) just the other week after a decade of Android phones.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  What era of mobiles do you have in mind Probably in the early 2000's when small equaled good. My wife had an LG phone that was so small it fit in the palm of my hand with my fingers closed. Sony sold a phone so small that it had a boom mic that swung down a couple of inches to pick up your voice. I had a SonyEricsson t68i that was 4" x 1¾" x ¾": https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_t68i-325.php https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_t68i-325.php
- kgwgk 7y ago
  https://www.zdnet.com/product/panasonic-gd55/ https://www.zdnet.com/product/panasonic-gd55/
mikestew 7y ago
(EDIT: in re-reading your comment, I see that you're just trying to illustrate a point, and I'm going all pedantic. Apologies.) I currently own a phone so small that it doesn't even have a keyboard[0]. When they get the thing to fit in my ear, then I'll start to worry that they're getting too small. I'm being just a bit facetious, but in seriousness if voice-controlled AI can improve a bit, size might cease to be an issue. [0] Apple Watch, and the only thing keeping from just ditching the phone is a. battery life b. Apple's use case they designed for is not "ditch the phone".

mieseratte 7y ago

One thing I “look forward” to seeing is safety as these Amazon trucks become more widespread. The ones in my area drive like absolute maniacs. Worst thing I’ve seen UPS and FedEx do is block a bike lane.

briandear 7y ago
Many of those Amazon trucks are part of fairly small (compared to Fedex,) mom and pop delivery companies: they don’t have the years of process and training that Fedex has. They are essentially franchises.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Here's a video that explains a bit about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6CveRk4N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6CveRk4N0 tl;dw: people think they're going to be "Amazon Business Partners" more like you're another cost center being squeezed as much as possible
- heywire 7y ago
  The FedEx Ground trucks around here are also franchises, but I'm sure FedEx strictly enforces driver training, etc., since their name is on the side of the truck.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Amazon deliveries here recently transitioned from random guy's car to Amazon-branded vans. Maybe that will help.
  - howard941 7y ago
    The FedEx ground franchisees in W Central Fla are a dangerous menace. My development has a 20mph speed limit routinely flaunted @ 40mph: Without exception (we have speed cameras to prove it). Beyond, bicyclists are no obstacle. If they were employees and shared liability with FedEx these issues might not exist. But they do exist, and if Amazon can do no worse it'll be a wash for pedestrians and cyclists. At least in this part of Floriduh.

tjr 7y ago

I placed an order with Amazon last week, on Friday. Just got free shipping, no Prime, nothing. It was delivered two days later, on Sunday. Cool, thanks, but I really didn't need or expect it that fast, and I kinda feel bad for whoever may have had to work extra to get me my Friday order on Sunday...

rootusrootus 7y ago
On the other hand, the delivery driver who got paid to make that Sunday delivery may be grateful for the income.
- nroach 7y ago
  ... if incremental income is tied to number of deliveries. If the driver was contractually obligated to work that day anyway, and the incremental load simply increased the time at work without an increase in compensation, then maybe not.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    I am not sure exactly how Amazon structures the pay for drivers, but even if it is time-based instead of package-based, there have to be >0 packages to deliver for the driver to get paid anything that day.
- tjr 7y ago
  I hope so! Thanks for the alternate perspective.
Theodores 7y ago
If you have to deliver a parcel anyway, why delay? In the UK Second Class post is just held back a bit. It isn't like it gets sent by pack horse instead of by truck. Now you are a good sort, but your neighbour might be on the phone to them on Sunday evening saying 'I ordered this Friday, moan, moan, moan...' if it was not delivered so promptly. This would incur 20 to 30 minutes of customer service time and could possibly lose them as a customer, for them to write negative reviews and bad mouth the company. It is less work to do deliveries really promptly and have no queue to manage. Don't feel bad for the people that work to achieve this, imagine how much more miserable they would be if they had a backlog, a veritable mountain of stuff to deliver on Monday, for them to not get it all done and to be going home fretting about it. I am no fan of Amazon but I can see what they are doing.

ohples 7y ago

I tried to get something delivered to my office (I work in a office tower in the downtown of a city). We have a loading dock, logistics team, etc. Normally Fedex, UPS, etc work out the details to get the code to access the loading dock, etc and the logistics team handles getting packages to me. I got a call once from a Amazon guys saying he had my package, I went down to the lobby to see he was basically unloading a pallet of packages in our fancy lobby. Needless to say our logistics team has tried to work with Amazon to get stuff delivered right, but we still seem to have issues.

res0nat0r 7y ago

I live in an apartment complex, and just yesterday my 1 day delivery was marked as delivered and "left in parcel locker", but it isn't in my mailbox (it is too big anyway), and I have no auto-email unlock code for the Amazon locker type service they have setup in the common area, but it was marked delivered on the website. I have no way of giving feedback that the delivery drivers here are lazy and marking packages as delivered to keep up their metrics and then actually delivering them the next day. It is very annoying.

ptmcc 7y ago
This sort of crap happens at least 50% of the time when I get something delivered by Amazon's delivery people. Those guys are just blatantly lying about when they deliver packages, and it is getting worse not better. Very rarely ever have any issues with FedEx, UPS, or USPS. OnTrac is pretty garbage, but still better than Amazon Logistics.
mikeash 7y ago
Contact customer service and tell them you didn’t get it. You’ll get some credit and if this keeps happening they’ll either do something or you’ll get lots of free stuff.
- thinkmassive 7y ago
  I agree they should contact CS, however I wouldn’t get my hopes up for credit or lots of free stuff. After many similar issues (caused by both Amazon & FedEx), and multiple hours on the phone w/Amazon CS, the best I ended up with was having them flag my account to avoid Amazon Logistics deliveries whenever possible. Now they’re usually fulfilled by UPS, and I don’t recall any issues since having the flag added.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > the best I ended up with was having them flag my account to avoid Amazon Logistics deliveries whenever possible. IIRC, Amazon.com customer support can only request the flag, but it can be denied. That's what happened to me, and I still get stuff delivered by Amazon Logistics. At least their service has improved somewhat since then.

srj 7y ago

As a customer I don't like this as I've had these guys leave packages in my driveway in pouring rain when the covered front deck was only 20 feet away. They also frequently deliver my packages to my neighbor's house and speed around like maniacs. On a societal level it's a shame that jobs that could actually support a person or family are being replaced by hustle economy types. My own parents never went to college and have worked service jobs their whole life, but could still own a house and eat dinner with us every night. They even bought a computer when I was a teenager in the 90s. I think in today's world they'd be driving for Lyft all night and I'd have grown up in a different town with a worse school system. "Your margin is my opportunity." -Jeff Bezos

bduerst 7y ago
I thought we were the only ones - they've left boxes sitting outdoors our apartment building even though they, like fedex and USPS, have codes to come in and put in front of our doors. What's even worse is that management put up a sign on the building entrance telling to put deliveries inside the building and they started leaving deliveries outside right in front of the sign.
fetus8 7y ago
I had a similar experience recently, and contacted Amazon. I talked to two separate people in two different departments, one that was supposedly a delivery logistics group. I was able to provide a statement regarding where to leave packages from now on. It's seemingly working so far, but we'll see what happens in a month or so.
- verbatim 7y ago
  I made a similar call after an Amazon courier recently left two packages on the roadside nowhere near my house (where they are normally left at the door). They added instructions to my account indicating which door the packages should be left at. So far, about 50% of the deliveries have been at a different door, but at least they've made it to the house.
  - 7y ago

joncrane 7y ago

>Amazon keeps optimizing for speed I think they are optimizing for cost/customer satisfaction, not speed.

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> I think they are optimizing for cost/customer satisfaction, not speed. Ha! I'm pretty sure they're optimizing for cost and precisely as much customer dissatisfaction that customers can take before they leave for competitors. My experiences with Amazon Logistics have not been good. Their processes and staff are inferior to USPS and UPS at least.

MikeTheGreat 7y ago

I think you're right (at least for me). I wonder if Amazon is preemptively competing with AliExpress, Alibaba, etc. Once people realize you can get stuff _even_cheaper_ from the Chinese version of Amazon it's going to be really tempting to go there instead. Pretty much the only advantage Amazon has is that they're state-side and can compete on ridiculous speed (which is gonna be really tough for people on other continents to do)

soperj 7y ago

>Reminds me of how apple pursued thin devices until they broke a fundamental part of the experience (MacBook keyboard). Sometimes you're done. For me it was when they had to solder in the ram. As soon as you can't fix or change your own device, it's a device i don't want to own.

elsonrodriguez 7y ago
The trend for electronics is more integration. How do I change the ram on a solid piece of smart-glass that the Sci-fi movies are promising me?
- camelNotation 7y ago
  You don't, but the smart glass of science fiction probably doesn't have an actual stick of RAM in it either. I think the point was that the ram is still being created as a separate unit and they didn't have to solder it, but did anyway.

bsiddhant 7y ago

Amazon Logistics is still a better option than OnTrac.

ptmcc 7y ago
I've had a slightly better track record with OnTrac than Amazon Logistics, but they are both exceedingly terrible. Truly awful, both of them.

stcredzero 7y ago

Reminds me of how apple pursued thin devices until they broke a fundamental part of the experience (MacBook keyboard). Sometimes you're done. Sometimes, you have to know when to get out to end on a high note. American television is notorious for this. Game of Thrones and House of Cards are recent examples. The American television industry is the one that gave rise to the proto-meme of "Jumping the Shark." (On the other hand, the Japanese anime industry is notorious for often leaving people wanting more.) On the other end, Apple's biggest successes involved knowing when to wait, and when to move, so that they didn't release something which wasn't ready. Apple didn't release the first MP3 player. They didn't release the first smartphone or the first tablet. So I doubt that Amazon is "done" at 2 day delivery. However, given my experience with new Amazon services, I'd say that they've created an incentive structure for internal groups to be first, even when they're not ready to the point where they somewhat damage the brand.

dec0dedab0de 7y ago
They didn't release the first smartphone or the first tablet. Was there something before the Newton?
- stcredzero 7y ago
  Yes, according to Wikipedia. Also, there's a reason why Jobs killed the Newton.
dmix 7y ago
I thought you were going to talk about Television industrial design (not the shows) which is another product category that's getting ridiculous because it won't get flatter. It's even starting to abandon technology/design, which they've fully tapped for variation, and is trying to make into art work these days which I guess is the end goal of all product design assuming it maintains its full utility. Some people just want a TV not a 60" framed piece of art sitting in the middle of their living room. Product differentiation for the sake of differentiation is always a dangerous game. Someone posted here the other day about "peak products" where the product reaches an ideal state which is an interesting concept! The problem is an obsession with constant newness misses stuff like privacy, customer support, longevity, etc. But they care more about having a new flashy SKU for next season which looks different. Edit: the Wikipedia for "Jumping the shark" is excellent, apparently from when Fonzie jumped over a shark in water skiis as part of a promotional gimmick on Happy Days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

chaostheory 7y ago

UPS and USPS are still mostly reliable for now. FedEx has not been reliable because they've already started to transition to 3rd party contractors a few years back. Many times FedEx shipped items are marked as "delivered" when in reality, the item is still at the warehouse.

geegoo 7y ago

I wish Amazon would add a $1-3 variable shipping charge to 2 day shipping (which is already very cheap) which gets pooled and awarded to the delivery people based on performance metrics (complaints, delivery times, damaged packages).

qroshan 7y ago
classic HackerNews discussing how business is run. Elitist at best.

derefr 7y ago

Amazon Logistics works just fine... when they're delivering to an Amazon Locker. I really get the impression that Locker delivery is 90% of what Amazon Logistics was built to achieve (since anything delivered to an Amazon Locker has to go through Amazon Logistics), and home delivery is just a sideline use-case that they haven't put much optimization work into. I started getting things delivered to a Locker near my office because delivery to my apartment consistently sucked regardless of carrier (drivers never tried to buzz in; stuff always ended up at the post office or back at the delivery depot.) Now that I've tried it I'm not going back. Just the fact that I can guarantee where the thing will be (no misdeliveries; no chance of theft from my front door), and pick it up immediately (no waiting in line) at any time of day (since the lockers tend to be street-accessible), makes so much difference. And that's leaving aside the fact that I've never found anything delivered to a locker to be late (on the last-mile logistics side of things, at least.) In fact, as long as such a shipment enters the country on time, I've found it to arrive faster than its projected delivery time more-often-than-not. Amazon has a solid experience with Logistics+Locker, but they haven't really marketed it very hard. Kind of surprising, really; the improved delivery experiences might do wonders for their customer retention at a time when fake Marketplace sellers are scaring customers away.

nesadi 7y ago
Do these lockers not exist in the US aside from the ones by Amazon? DHL lockers are everywhere in Germany.
- kn0where 7y ago
  No, other than some apartment complexes now have their own automated lockers.

outworlder 7y ago

Hey, at least Amazon Logistics is not UPS.

sb8244 7y ago

I have had the worst experiences with Amazon logistics. Packages marked as "can not deliver" at 930pm to a building with a front desk (two days in a row). I asked them about never sending me something with Amazon logistics again and they indicated that they flipped a flag to remove it as a shipping method.