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"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered a

by anm89 7y ago

"Over the decades, as versions of this housewife’s setup have eliminated dining rooms, pass-throughs, and farmhouse tables, the open-concept kitchen, centered around an island visible from all sides, has become not a labor-saving device but a stage on which (mostly) women are forced to perform." I gave up here. This is so stupid that I'm not sure what is the premise that I should critique. Also Im a guy who cooks in a kitchen with an island and I love it.

mraudiobook_com 7y ago
You must just hate women and like "putting them on display".
JasonFruit 7y ago
This was exactly my reaction: I love my island, and I think the kids would eat there every meal if I didn't like to make a sit-down meal now and then. I've never found that the island acted as a stage, or that it interfered with my convenient triangle of sink-counter-stove. I don't know what kind of poppycock this is trying to be, but there is no excuse for it.
- wingerlang 7y ago
  I don't own a house, but I keep notes for what I will eventually (hopefully) look for and this kind of island is quite high on my wants-list.
- the_seraphim 7y ago
  I don't have an island, but man would I enjoy performing the dance of the steak...
goto11 7y ago
TV shows and movies love kitchen islands because because you can have people moving around while interacting and the camera moving around them. The article is not about interior design per se though, it is about characters in the HBO TV series "Big Little Lies", characterized through their homes. If you haven't seen the show the article probably makes little sense.
DoreenMichele 7y ago
There's an excellent book about the history of domestic technology called "More work for mother." It details how the more domestic tech we created, the more work shifted from the man of the house to the lady of the house and standards were raised Three hundred years ago, full-time wives did about 60 hours/week of housework. Today, with all our modern appliances, they still do about 60 hours/week of housework. In most families, as women begin working outside the home, they still do 40 hours/week of housework. The men mostly have not picked up the difference. I'm a former homemaker. I got divorced and got a corporate job. My adult special needs sons continued to live with me. Co-workers would express pity anout how I worked full-time and also had to go home and cook dinner. They were flabbergasted to learn my oldest son did the cooking. Given that I was working at a Fortune 200 company, these were presumably some of the most privileged "ordinary" women on the planet. Even the highest ranking woman in my department whose husband moved to let her accept the promotion was not comfortable learning about my arrangement at home because she apparently still did most of the women's work at home while having a VIP job.
- IshKebab 7y ago
  60 hours a week? You think housewives are doing 8½ hours of solid house work every single day? Yeah, no.
  - Chris_Chambers 7y ago
    It seems like she's shifted to spending 60 hours a week posting comments on HN non-stop. There should really be some kind of broader rate limiting to prevent people like DoreenMichelle and tptacek from polluting so many comment sections on HN. We check comment sections hoping to see a wide variety of opinions, not two people's blogs.
  - jraines 7y ago
    Are programmers doing 60 hrs of work a week? Yes, if you count planning, talking about work to be done, thinking about work to be done, commuting (s/buying groceries, shuttling kids), mentoring, dealing with other people’s complaints & personal issues, dealing with red tape (forms to be signed, reports to review & give feedback on), etc, etc, etc You can say those analogues fall outside of “housework” ... sure, but then it’s like “hey programmer, you’ve got 60 hours in the week, why isn’t that feature done yet?”
tjr225 7y ago
I had the same reaction at the exact same point in the article. Are couples out there really not sharing chore responsibilities? Maybe my wife just got lucky. Whatever. In any case I don't see what the kitchen island could possibly have to do with it. I initially clicked on the article because I, a male, am excited about getting an island so that I can use it to cook for my family!
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  I agree with you and the parent post. I'm a husband who does most of the cooking and cleaning, and I couldn't live without a kitchen island. Also, I love having a big, open, combined cooking/dining/socializing space. My wife, and my mother (who does 100% of the cooking and cleaning in her family) both agree on all counts. I do, however, think the author is making a reasonable point in general - but the specific example and the tone misfired.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
I think you're focusing too much on the women part? I see it as criticising the stage aspect: instead of being able to be secluded and focus on the task at hand in a practically small space, you are instead performing in a space visible to everyone which is much too big to be good for the actual task.
- pixl97 7y ago
  Much too big? Have you ever cooked for more than 5 people? Ya, maybe a gigantic layout isnt great for family dinners in the evening, but the moment you have a party it provides a great space to prep and layout finished foods.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Practically everyone I know would rather have a larger kitchen and have conversation going on around the cooking. Who wants to be out there alone cooking? It's a nice activity together.
viburnum 7y ago
Good lord man, you are so defensive about this, you might benefit from working out your issues with a good therapist.
WillyF 7y ago
I stopped at the same exact point.
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vectorEQ 7y ago
i'm with you, despite that fact i've never in my life seen a kitchen island. i was opening the article to find an actual island :< got greeted to this dribble. :'D

by anm89 7y ago

mraudiobook_com 7y ago

You must just hate women and like "putting them on display".

JasonFruit 7y ago

This was exactly my reaction: I love my island, and I think the kids would eat there every meal if I didn't like to make a sit-down meal now and then. I've never found that the island acted as a stage, or that it interfered with my convenient triangle of sink-counter-stove. I don't know what kind of poppycock this is trying to be, but there is no excuse for it.

wingerlang 7y ago
I don't own a house, but I keep notes for what I will eventually (hopefully) look for and this kind of island is quite high on my wants-list.
the_seraphim 7y ago
I don't have an island, but man would I enjoy performing the dance of the steak...

goto11 7y ago

TV shows and movies love kitchen islands because because you can have people moving around while interacting and the camera moving around them. The article is not about interior design per se though, it is about characters in the HBO TV series "Big Little Lies", characterized through their homes. If you haven't seen the show the article probably makes little sense.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

There's an excellent book about the history of domestic technology called "More work for mother." It details how the more domestic tech we created, the more work shifted from the man of the house to the lady of the house and standards were raised Three hundred years ago, full-time wives did about 60 hours/week of housework. Today, with all our modern appliances, they still do about 60 hours/week of housework. In most families, as women begin working outside the home, they still do 40 hours/week of housework. The men mostly have not picked up the difference. I'm a former homemaker. I got divorced and got a corporate job. My adult special needs sons continued to live with me. Co-workers would express pity anout how I worked full-time and also had to go home and cook dinner. They were flabbergasted to learn my oldest son did the cooking. Given that I was working at a Fortune 200 company, these were presumably some of the most privileged "ordinary" women on the planet. Even the highest ranking woman in my department whose husband moved to let her accept the promotion was not comfortable learning about my arrangement at home because she apparently still did most of the women's work at home while having a VIP job.

IshKebab 7y ago
60 hours a week? You think housewives are doing 8½ hours of solid house work every single day? Yeah, no.
- Chris_Chambers 7y ago
  It seems like she's shifted to spending 60 hours a week posting comments on HN non-stop. There should really be some kind of broader rate limiting to prevent people like DoreenMichelle and tptacek from polluting so many comment sections on HN. We check comment sections hoping to see a wide variety of opinions, not two people's blogs.
- jraines 7y ago
  Are programmers doing 60 hrs of work a week? Yes, if you count planning, talking about work to be done, thinking about work to be done, commuting (s/buying groceries, shuttling kids), mentoring, dealing with other people’s complaints & personal issues, dealing with red tape (forms to be signed, reports to review & give feedback on), etc, etc, etc You can say those analogues fall outside of “housework” ... sure, but then it’s like “hey programmer, you’ve got 60 hours in the week, why isn’t that feature done yet?”

tjr225 7y ago

I had the same reaction at the exact same point in the article. Are couples out there really not sharing chore responsibilities? Maybe my wife just got lucky. Whatever. In any case I don't see what the kitchen island could possibly have to do with it. I initially clicked on the article because I, a male, am excited about getting an island so that I can use it to cook for my family!

happytoexplain 7y ago
I agree with you and the parent post. I'm a husband who does most of the cooking and cleaning, and I couldn't live without a kitchen island. Also, I love having a big, open, combined cooking/dining/socializing space. My wife, and my mother (who does 100% of the cooking and cleaning in her family) both agree on all counts. I do, however, think the author is making a reasonable point in general - but the specific example and the tone misfired.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago

I think you're focusing too much on the women part? I see it as criticising the stage aspect: instead of being able to be secluded and focus on the task at hand in a practically small space, you are instead performing in a space visible to everyone which is much too big to be good for the actual task.

pixl97 7y ago
Much too big? Have you ever cooked for more than 5 people? Ya, maybe a gigantic layout isnt great for family dinners in the evening, but the moment you have a party it provides a great space to prep and layout finished foods.
scarejunba 7y ago
Practically everyone I know would rather have a larger kitchen and have conversation going on around the cooking. Who wants to be out there alone cooking? It's a nice activity together.

viburnum 7y ago

Good lord man, you are so defensive about this, you might benefit from working out your issues with a good therapist.

WillyF 7y ago

I stopped at the same exact point.

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deleted 7y ago

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vectorEQ 7y ago

i'm with you, despite that fact i've never in my life seen a kitchen island. i was opening the article to find an actual island :< got greeted to this dribble. :'D