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Amazon will pull the plug on dash buttons
- Scoundreller 7y agoThey seemed to have little value. Cool project though.
- mttjj 7y agoI think I've had 3 physical buttons since they were introduced. Only used one of them one time. It was a novel idea but never really caught on. I'm sure Amazon would rather you just ask Alexa to order things for you now anyway.
- michaelbuckbee 7y agoI've no real love for the intended use of the dash buttons (re-orders of items) but do hope that some other company comes up with a similarly easily hackable wireless button for interactions.
- phlowbieuq 7y agoAs of now, Amazon appears to still be selling their "IOT button" (which is basically a programmable dash button) https://aws.amazon.com/iotbutton/ https://aws.amazon.com/iotbutton/
- Jun8 7y agoYes, but at $19.99 it's pretty expensive. I don't know what the right price point for something like this but, given the fact they are easily lost, definitely < $5, more like $1. HW people on HN, is this impossible at scale?
- mcpherrinm 7y ago$5: probably doable. An esp8266 dev board goes for $2 on AliExpress. That leaves $1 for plastics and $2 for a lipo battery.
- bochoh 7y agoIf you wanted to make it for yourself. A general rule of thumb I've heard several times for makers is to retail at 4x the cost of goods sold - else your business is unsustainable. So for a 5$ retail price you'd have to be somewhere near $1.25 COGS. Going the otherway - 19.99 for a 5$ COGS is perfect.
- dlhavema 7y agoIf you're talking price point $5 would be $0 profit by that bill of items. Was the original/intended purpose to always sell them at cost and make the profits up through increased sales?
- Jun8 7y ago"We lose a little money on every customer, but we make it up on volume." :-) I think in Amazon's case it was just experimentation with a sunk cost. Based on the discussion above it looks like it's impossible to form a company to sell these to turn a profit, at least in the dash button form.
- anbop 7y agoThe original purpose of the “hackable” button was to give a fun piece of experimentation kit that worked with AWS and encouraged people to try it out. I set up my AWS account just to use one.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> If you're talking price point $5 would be $0 profit by that bill of items. negative profit when you count assembly.
- grogenaut 7y agoBeing tangentially involved in this project it was my understanding that the devices were financed in large part by the marketing departments of the brands that had buttons, which is why they were tied to brands.
- jandrese 7y agoThat's zero margin for Amazon though and no budget for assembly. If the materials cost is $5 then $10 is the absolute lowest you could probably hope for. $15 is a more sustainable (profit generating) product.
- ihuman 7y agoThe $15 "1st Generation AWS IoT Button" is out of stock, but the $20 "AWS IoT Enterprise Button" is still in stock. Is there a difference besides the label?
- pmlnr 7y agoAWS IoT Enterprise Button creates a JIRA ticket and sends approval requests as well. /s
- anbop 7y agoThis is the first thing I’ve ever upvoted on Hacker News
- Scoundreller 7y agoUsually the Enterprise version is twice as big, 100x the price and 1/4 as reliable. Better support though.
- deanCommie 7y ago1) Double the lifetime clicks (2000 vs 1000) 2) More tightly integrated with the AWS IoT 1-Click service. (so arguably more restricted, but actually easier to manage and scale if you're an actual enterprise managing thousands of these in the field, rather than one developer building a toy app)
- AnssiH 7y agoThe AWS IoT Button is for the AWS IoT Button service ("Cloud Programmable Dash Button"): https://aws.amazon.com/iotbutton/ https://aws.amazon.com/iotbutton/ The AWS IoT Enterprise Button is for the AWS IoT 1-Click service ("Trigger AWS Lambda functions from simple devices"): https://aws.amazon.com/iot-1-click/ https://aws.amazon.com/iot-1-click/ Notice how the Enterprise button listing (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075FPHHGG https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075FPHHGG) says "This is not the AWS IoT Developer Button" with a link to the other button.
- dhash 7y agoThe first gen ones are able to speak MQTT as well as integrate with AWS IoT core, so they could also fire off lambdas, hit SQS, etc. The new ones are strictly worse, only able to be bound to a Lambda
- victords 7y agoThat's interesting... But does Amazon provide a public API for making purchases?
- tbdr 7y agolike Puck-JS https://www.puck-js.com/ https://www.puck-js.com/ ?
- michaelbuckbee 7y agoThat's an interesting project but not quite the same - the Dash buttons use wifi to connect (instead of bluetooth) which lets them operate more independently.
- dlhavema 7y agoThey're also roughly 2x the cost of the dash enterprise buttons. Granted they have more functionality
- roel_v 7y agoNot as cheap, but Fibaro has a ZWave button like this. Registers double clicks and some other behaviors too.
- m-p-3 7y agoI guess you could make and program your own with an ESP8266.
- TillE 7y agoIt was always baffling to make non-trivial custom hardware in an age of universal smartphone ownership. Does Amazon even have any good apps? Seems like easy subscription management and re-ordering is something they could do there.
- nerdjon 7y agoAmazon already has their Subscribe and Save program. I actually really liked the dash buttons for those items that I did not use as regularly, but the number of items like that are pretty low to warrant having more than 2 or 3 of these things. Then when I rebuilt my wireless network I just did not care to move them over.
- maxerickson 7y agoReally liking them and abandoning them anyway is a pretty solid indictment of the idea.
- nerdjon 7y agoI will say this is an issue with iot devices in general right now. When I rebuilt my wireless network, every smarthome device has to be modified and that was the worst part about it. At least these were basically free anyways (you bought them for $5 and then got a $5 credit on your first purchase with them) so I did not feel a need to switch them over.
- bduerst 7y agoThe IoT market is a testing bed for custom hardware ideas. For every 20 dash buttons you eventually get a Nest. It just doesn't seem that way because of survivor bias.
- walrus01 7y agoFor anyone interested in weird low cost embedded devices, I suggest googling for Amazon dash button teardowns. There's some interesting choices made in their components and spec. https://mpetroff.net/2016/07/new-amazon-dash-button-teardown-jk29lp/ https://mpetroff.net/2016/07/new-amazon-dash-button-teardown... https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4460866/Teardown--Designing-the-second-generation-Amazon-Dash-Button- https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4460866/Teardown--Design... There is also this thing, the Amazon wand: https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4460319/Teardown--Amazon-Dash-Wand-with-Alexa https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4460319/Teardown--Amazon...
- asd 7y agoSurely they will announce a Dash button recycling program. Right? Edit: Read rest of article and have my answer. Sorry! Don’t spank me.
- gmoore 7y agoit was announced in the article!
- sct202 7y agoI never really got the point of them since they were usually for things that stored really well and get used up at a relatively constant rate so it's usually not a surprise when you run out, so like why would I need to rush and blindly push the button to buy more detergent/toothpaste of a certain brand without knowing the price when I'd just eventually buy it in my normal shopping run/order.
- gdulli 7y agoIt's not for your benefit, it's for Amazon's. It's for them to train people to lower both the cognitive and physical barriers to buying. And specifically, buying from them by default without exercising the thought process of evaluating other vendors, noticing price increases, etc.
- beatgammit 7y agoI've started only using Amazon as a last option, not a first option, because I've noticed that their process aren't really any better and buying through them can make some things more difficult (warranties, refunds on reduced price items, etc). That being said, it's very easy to just default to Amazon and not bother looking elsewhere.
- prepend 7y agoThey were fun. I bought a few back when they were $1. It’s more fun to press the red bull button than to say “computer, order more Red Bull.” I didn’t really use them that much because amazon’s prices got a lot worse so I ordered my Red Bull and batteries from other places. I hope I can repurpose them for other iot signals.
- close04 7y agoI think most buttons were actually used for other purposes (so for the hardware) instead of for Amazon purchases. In some countries selling something without showing the price at the time of purchase is not entirely legal.
- mtmail 7y agoAmazon was no longer allowed to sell them in Germany earlier this year. Consumer protection agency said the button isn't a clear enough buying agreement (here payment forms need to make clear it costs money to click, exact price, what you buy). Amazon allowed itself to change the product, e.g. amount of washing liquid.
- gwbas1c 7y agoIn the US, I looked at them with a high degree of skepticism. How do I know that I'm getting the same product, at the best price? In the US, quite frequently the same product is sold in different packaging, and the best price often varies between the packaging. Sometimes the 20-pack of toilet paper is cheapest. Sometimes the 30-pack is cheapest. Besides, on the mobile app, it doesn't take that long to figure out the best deal.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- donatj 7y agoI’m probably alone but I’m pretty bummed about this. I regularly used them to order detergent and Clorox wipes when we were getting low. Haven’t been fully out of either in a couple years. How much work would it honestly be for them just to keep the existing ones going.
- pmlnr 7y ago"Alexa, add X to my shopping list"
- Touche 7y agoWell you can directly buy the same products with Alexa, which is what I'll probably do.
- kaypro 7y agoNot alone. We have half a dozen of these scattered around the house and use them often. We'll eventually get used to asking Alexa to re-order items but the buttons will be missed. Much less friction than having to ask Alexa and going through the verbal confirmation back and forth. No clue as to why they would discontinue existing buttons. Very odd.
- driverdan 7y agoI don't understand why you'd need it. It's not like detergent is something you need to order every week. It takes me over a year to use a large jug of laundry detergent. All you have to do is get two containers, one open and one backup. When you use up the first buy another one the next time you go grocery shopping.
- donatj 7y ago> It's not like detergent is something you need to order every week That's exactly why this is useful. It's something I forget to buy at the store because I run out so rarely. Right now while I'm doing my laundry if I notice I'm below about a third I'll hit the button. Before I'd almost always realize I was out of detergent mid-washing, undoubtedly the night before some important meeting, and have to run to the store in the middle of the night.
- jpm_sd 7y agoThese were the ":CueCat" of 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat I wonder what today's equivalent is?
- magic_beans 7y agoToday's equivalent is scanning a QR code with your phone.
- pmlnr 7y agoNot of cuecat literally; the failure of cuecat in 2019.
- libria 7y ago(following this tangent) My impression of QR's problem was: 1) High ergonomics barrier; the user needed to install a QR app from the appstore or find the icon for it and start it. 2) People who are not on HN don't know what it is anyway. Now that it's built in to most Android/iPhone cameras, #1 is solved. Now that #1 is solved, #2 is self-solving. QR gets a lot of jank but when I use it, it's very handy.
- bduerst 7y agoProbably more accurate an analogy than you think: https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/ https://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/
- k1t 7y agoRather than pressing a button when you run out, I think (totally anecdotally of course) people just use subscriptions. Send me 12 rolls of kitchen roll, every 3 months, a bag of cat food every month, etc..
- k__ 7y agoThey are ahead of their time. If I pressed one and <1h delivery would happen it would be great. But we aren't there yet.
- I_am_neo 7y agoRelegated to the parts bin. Usefulness perhaps in a second life... https://hackaday.com/tag/amazon-dash-button/ https://hackaday.com/tag/amazon-dash-button/
- spookthesunset 7y agoBiggest problem I had with them is the products you could order were hard coded to the device itself. If the product you want to order doesn't have its own dash button, the whole system was useless.
- reaperducer 7y agoI had a few, but stopped using them because the pricing was erratic. Push a button for pistachios, and a pound bag shows up for $8.99. Push the same button two weeks later, and get charged $17.99. I liked the idea, though. It would have been good if it had been incorporated into the whole Whole Foods thing.
- javiramos 7y agoSame problem here. We used to use it at my company to order paper towels when we were running low. It was super convenient but the pricing varied so much - the same paper towel bundle could range from $22 to $37 depending on the day.
- 420codebro 7y agoWTF? How many paper towel rolls are we talking about??
- fencepost 7y agoI've advised clients to be cautious about Amazon "subscriptions" for toner and such because I've seen crazy looking pricing that seems designed to take advantage of such automatic orders, such as a 3-pack of toner for 4-5x the price of individual ones. I'm sure that at some point it was less expensive....
- bduerst 7y agoA simple solution would have been an e-ink screen that listed the price per unit/press, but that probably would have increased button costs by an order of magnitude. Also more users probably would become aware of price variance (as you have) and changed their shopping habits, which is not good for business.
- fragmede 7y agoThe simpler solution, is to just not price-gouge customers and hope they don't notice, while trying to build a subscription-based business. If Amazon isn't able to offer any level of price stability, then don't offer the subscription. Toilet paper is convenient to get on a subscription basis, but that convenience isn't worth paying $5/roll.
- dfeojm-zlib 7y agoAmazon's :CueCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat https://hackaday.com/tag/dash-button/ https://hackaday.com/tag/dash-button/
- grendelt 7y agoThose CueCat scanners were a great way to scan used textbooks when I was selling them in college. They just magically spit out a text string followed by a <CR> when scanning a barcode. They were going for dirt cheap on eBay for a number of years. In college, on finals week I'd get $100-200 cash and go to the bookstore. I'd hear they were buying back certain popular textbooks for next to nothing. I'd offer the seller $10 cash right there on the spot. "Sell to them or sell to me, it's the same price. Here's a $10 bill." After getting a stack of those (or when profs were cleaning out their bookshelves), I'd lug them home, scan with my CueCat and sell them for a substantial markup on half.com (RIP). One semester I found a stack of books outside faculty offices labeled "free" - sold those for $500 that weekend.
- iwalton3 7y agoI wonder if anyone has gotten the Wi-Fi pairing process to work outside of the Amazon app. Otherwise, you can't change your wireless password without bricking any buttons you might be misusing for other DIY uses after Amazon kills support.
- esotericn 7y agoI don't understand the appeal behind ordering something without knowing the price. The only thing I ever buy without knowing the cost is a drink in a pub, and that's some sort of strange anachronism. And in that situation, if the bartender turns around and tells me 25 quid or whatever after pouring it, I'd just walk off. The economy doesn't work properly if you just blindly pay whatever.
- schristou88 7y agoDuring setup of the dash button you tell amazon what you want the button to purchase. When setting up the button you get a few choices to choose and you pick one to link, so whenever the button is pressed it will order that exact product. When you pick the product you’re also told the price.
- esotericn 7y agoThe price changes.
- jaclaz 7y ago>The price changes. And in some cases you won't like the change. I have noticed on other "platforms" (I don't use Amazon, so it may be different on it) that vendors must be using some (evidently crappy) software to "re-align" their prices automatically to market/competitors/whatever and this makes from time to time some egregious mistake. Recent anecdata, a couple weeks ago I bookmarked a plastic bench that I might have been interested in buying but had no "urgent" need for, I found a vendor selling it for 148.50 Euro (there were a number of other ones selling the same article ranging from 150 to 170 Euro). Last week I accessed the bookmark and found that the price was now 1,148.50 Euro (and I just checked, it is still at that). But I have seen it happen several times. Not that anyone would have a dash button for that, but I suspect that the same can happen for common, ordinary house supplies.
- tzs 7y agoA lot of the products seem to be small household items, like razor blades, trash bags, water filters, and the like, that when you run out you are (1) probably going to want to replace with the same brand, (2) probably don't want to put off replacing to wait for a bargain, and (3) probably will still buy even if the price is a little more than the last time, but within the normal Amazon price variation. Also, according to their documentation, pressing the button queues the order and sends you an email, which includes price information. You can cancel the order before it ships. I'd expect that the normal flow for most people is to press the button when they notice they are running out of something, and then check the order details when they next deal with email.
- PunksATawnyFill 7y agoI've added up all the shits that are given, and the stunning total is... zero.
- PascalW 7y agoDoes anyone know of any programmable alternatives that are not tight to AWS?
- aiddun 7y agoMakes sense with the ubiquity of Alexa/Echos in homes. Why quantize consumer selection to a finite number of items when one can be able to order anything with the same seamlessness.