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Norway was lucky to be a very developed society before oil was discovered. In most countries oil is a curse
by buboard 7y ago
Norway was lucky to be a very developed society before oil was discovered. In most countries oil is a curse
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ptero 7y agoI would even make a more general statement: in most countries excess money is usually spent quickly (and usually inefficiently) on the scare-of-the-day. Developed countries are not immune to this. For example, in late 1990s and early 2000 US budget deficits were falling, then budget went into growing surpluses. But those surpluses were quickly spent on tax breaks and war on terror and US went back into large deficits. Politics :(
- lordnacho 7y agoI wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society? In a lot of places people will immediately get suspicious if you say you're setting up a government fund to hold everyone's money. For the benefit of society, of course.
- buboard 7y ago> I wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society? Thats a virtuous loop. You institutions work because you trust that strangers trust your institutions.
- imtringued 7y agoYes, that is how trust works.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y agoIt's about Norwegian climate: you don't work - you freeze to death in winter. In a dozen of generations an idea that everyone must work hard becomes an obvious thing.
- achillesheels 7y agoI would expect similarly: if you are vocationally dishonest you will freeze to death.
- varjag 7y agoNorwegian climate in the most populated areas isn't particularly harsh.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y agoSnow and ice 5-7 months of the year in Oslo...
- varjag 7y agoIf by 5-7 you mean 3-4 in a good year, sure.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y agoNo I mean 5-7. The skiing is rubbish until January but the ground is frozen by the end of October and defrosts in late March/early April. Lots of places have colder winters than here but they do drag on.
- varjag 7y agoI can't really recall when there was snow in Oslo for half a year. Some years were nearly snowless. Officially, the winter period in Oslo is 119 days. And well north of the city/further from the sea you can feel proper winter better, sure. Even so close as Lillestrøm it's crisper. But again, nothing unusual by North/central European standards.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago2 winters ago... Last winter was very mild though.
- ckris 7y agoProbably high-trust, but those who support the Nordic model would argue that this trust is developed. One of the goals is to have cohesion. That is the idea behind for example having universal systems. This trust arguably didn't exist when ~25% of both countries population left the United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway for the United States. (I wouldn't be sure Norway could do this today either).
- rcpt 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
- munk-a 7y agoThis could use a bit more explanation and CGP Grey actually has a very good video out called "The Rules for Rulers" which touches on one of the reasons this really is a terrible situation. Whenever funds are diverted to the common good the party in power is, by definition, kicking less money into cronyism than is possible - in a setting with a poorly activated public, where power ends up being concentrated into the hands of the few, there is a constant pressure from those in power to divert more money to those representative voices from the voices you're unaccountable to - this makes it more likely that even a well intentioned leader will be ousted in a coup.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- stingraycharles 7y agoBut to have the restraint of not spending the money and putting it into a fund is a whole different level. Being from the Netherlands, which has/had large gas fields, it makes me jealous our government didn’t have a similar foresight.
- collyw 7y agoWasn't most of the middle east pretty undeveloped before oil?
- kyruzic 7y agoThe US and Canada (Alberta) both were as well. Yet both have massive debt instead of huge amounts of money.
- endorphone 7y agoIn the US, and to a lesser extent Canada, the idea of the state benefiting too much is seen as lefty socialism (Canada briefly flirted with economic nationalism with the creation of Petro-Canada, but this was vehemently opposed by US energy companies). So we have a classic situation where the profits are privatized to the very few, and the costs are socialized (climate change, abandoned wells, pollution, etc).
- buboard 7y agoas mentioned elsewhere, they don't export nearly as much oil
- djsumdog 7y agoThe Dictators Handbook is a great book that talks about how natural resources can lead to autocracy a lot of times, because leaders can extract resources, sell them to get money/power and not give a damn about individuals. Countries that have fewer resources tend to need support from a larger selectorate and tend to (not always) lead to more democratic societies. So that does go with what you said (I don't know their oil history, but I assume they build a society that was culturally western European before they discovered and started extracting oil resources).
- aussiegreenie 7y agoThere is/was more oil in the UK controlled North Sea and England has nothing from the resource. Australia is the largest exporter of LNG and gets about 3% of the Royalties that Qatar earns. it is simply incompetence and corruption.
- imtringued 7y agoI'm sure some England has something from the resource but most of the wealth probably accumulated in the hands of one or two people.
- agiri 7y agoNorway was a poor country prior to the discovery of oil, mostly farmers and fishermen