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On the surface it appears Google is spending millions of dollars to expose flaws in competitor's products.
by sixothree 7y ago
On the surface it appears Google is spending millions of dollars to expose flaws in competitor's products.
- runeks 7y agoI’m not sure why you received downvotes. Looks like people are a bit sensitive on this subject. You are exactly right.
- foobiekr 7y agoGood. Because the competitors aren’t.
- root_axis 7y agoSounds great for consumers.
- ziddoap 7y agoWords are wonderful. Try saying it this way: Google is spending millions of their own dollars to freely help other companies (and themselves!) enhance their security and close holes malicious actors can exploit. Now replace "Google" with any other company or independent researcher of your choice. If you're no longer angry, you're being biased solely because its Google and not someone you like.
- sildur 7y agoI replaced Google with Microsoft, Oracle and SCO, and the feeling is the same.
- 0x6c6f6c 7y agoSo, you're not okay with white hats or security researchers at all then
- kiallmacinnes 7y agoI suspect it's large companies, given the names provided. Really, I don't get peoples hatred for Project Zero. Sure, hate the companies, but can you seriously argue that companies spending money on security research is a bad thing? Even if gasp they might get some good publicity from that research?
- qarlow 7y agoI don't think it is much more complicated than that some of us don't want to grant even more power to companies like Google.
- kiallmacinnes 7y agoPower? I don't see much power being granted here. And if you rule out "all companies like Google", you've basically ruled out everyone with enough capital to donate to research, depending on your definition of "like Google". And really, it absolutely is a donation. The ROI on Project Zero is likely 50x or more less than if that money went to the marketing team.
- qarlow 7y ago> Power? I don't see much power being granted here. And I am not going try to convince you in a popularity based forum, but that is generally the objection.
- gmanley 7y agoIf you don't want to engage in discussion why are you even commenting here in the first place? You are saying that this gives more power to google and someone asked if you could elaborate on why you think that. Not everyone has the same background and what may be obvious power to you may not be to others. This forum is supposed to be participated in with good faith.
- 7y ago
- mehrdadn 7y agoWhat if your replace it with, say, Stripe?
- ziftface 7y agoWhat about the NSA, or GRU? Because they're doing this research too, except they're not publishing it.
- ctrl-j 7y agoMy biggest question would be how many security vulnerabilities Google uncovered and disclosed on their own platform. If they are being good and helping other companies - great! But if they're also profiting by FUD'ing them - then we should call them something other than white hats.. grey hats maybe?
- FireBeyond 7y agohttps://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/ https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/ Plenty of uncovered and disclosed vulnerabilities for Android and Chrome there.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kps 7y ago> My biggest question would be how many security vulnerabilities Google uncovered and disclosed on their own platform. 130.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoGoogle fixes its shit before the 90 day deadline. Apple could hire the talent it needs to do the same.
- slavak 7y agoIt also absolutely discloses its shit after they patch it.
- scarface74 7y agoWell, Apple released a patch for all phones back to the 4s released in 2011. What are the chances that security patches for Android phones make it to phones released even two years ago? Even Microsoft released a patch recently to a security vulnerability found in Windows XP.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
- jschwartzi 7y agoOf course I'm biased. Google is a huge multinational corporation with a vested interest in keeping me on their platform. They're not researching vulnerabilities in Apple's products out of the goodness of their hearts, and although I agree that they're probably doing the right thing in this case, the fact that they're releasing the vulnerabilities at all probably has some ulterior motives.
- DannyBee 7y agoThis is you, projecting, based on how you would operate. Unless you have actual evidence, don't put that on them.
- gravelordnito 7y agoA security company doing this (disclosing apple/ms vulnerabilities) wouldn't be going after their competitors. > you're being biased solely because its Google and not someone you like. We should be biased against Google, in everything.
- sixothree 7y agoWhat I said should have conveyed no opinion. Why would you change the words?
- johnday 7y ago"Expose" is a loaded term in many cultures. In particular it means to reveal something which the other party was trying to hide, usually in an adversarial way.
- TotempaaltJ 7y agoYour message shows how this situation can be framed to create a negative opinion towards Google. The wording of "on the surface it appears" implies that showing that was the purpose of the message.
- ziddoap 7y agoThe other folk have given some (correct) reasons why I read an opinion in your message. But, here was my thought process. If I was wrong in how I understood your message, my apologies. >On the surface it appears This implies an ulterior motive. >expose flaws As mentioned, "expose" is an emotionally charged word with negative connotation. >in competitor's products. P0 does not just focus on competitors products, by any stretch. Your statement also fails to convey that they notified Apple with industry accepted disclosure practices in order to fix the vulnerabilities, rather than just "expose flaws".
- saagarjha 7y agoThey spend millions to find flaws in popular software projects, some of which are their own.
- bilbo0s 7y agoWell of course they are. So what? Hopefully Apple does the same thing and obliges Google to operate with a whole lot more security. (Not that anyone should use Google in any case because of the industry leading flagrance of their privacy issues. But I digress.)
- garrettr_ 7y agoProject Zero also regularly publishes on flaws in Google's own products. Check out https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com: they do a fair amount of reports on Chrome, ChromeOS, Android, etc.
- mda 7y agoSo that they are fixed? What is wrong with you people?
- sbahr001 7y agoI find it all funny because one of the biggest reasons people don't switch from iOS is because of iMessage. It is nice to see that Google is helping Apple in finding the exploits and not exploiting it themselves as far as we know.
- wnevets 7y agoBetter google than Russia
- bun_at_work 7y agoOr China, where the iPhone is wildly popular (even if the popularity has been decreasing recently).
- gravelordnito 7y agoI'm far more afraid of google.
- wnevets 7y agoIf Google is responsively disclosing the issues to vendors, why? I would find it hard to believe totalitarian governments like Russia or China would do the same.
- AJ007 7y agoIt is the entities spending millions of dollars to find exploits but then not disclosing them that we should be concerned about. This makes Apple stronger not weaker.
- ummonk 7y agoThey are spending millions to do free security research for their competitors.
- Phemist 7y agoIt really is brilliant. As others have pointed out, Google finds both vulnerabilities in its own products with project zero, as well in its competitors' products. There is no reason to assume project zero is biased if one considers second order effects of this security research. What kind of press releases get picked up by the media 9 out of 10 times? Not the ones about google finding flaws in google products. Google just makes clever use of the medias' bias for conflict.
- masklinn 7y agoProject Zero regularly exposes flaws in Google products, as well as non-competitor's products (e.g. AV, Tavis Ormandy's AV rants are always enjoyable). I'm not a fan of Google at all and don't use their products unless I absolutely have to, but everything I've seen so far about P0 has been stellar technically and ethically.
- philwelch 7y agoPerhaps their competitors should spend money to expose flaws in Google's products, too. That would be better for everyone.
- UncleMeat 7y agoThat's why vulns have been reported in all sorts of products that have nothing to do with Google's offerings and also in Google's own products, right?