21 ms·

Librem 5 Smartphone Final Specs

419 points by thepete2 7y ago

Tepix 7y ago
Low budget alternative: The Pinephone by Pine64, also with 4 ARM Cortex-A53 cores. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  Cool, I want to get one of those also, but they're not selling it and I don't see any links about when we can buy it, for how much, and when it will ship.
  - megous 7y ago
    Probably by the end of the year. Early prototypes should ship next month, but who knows.
  - redwards510 7y ago
    I can't find the info for the price, but I remember seeing it before and it was very low, like $200, which would make this a very exciting entry into the notAndroidOrIOS market. The Librem 5 was cool at first, until they started delaying it indefinitely and the price is too high for mass adoption. By having a very low price on the Pinephone they are courting a lot more tinkerers to get one and help develop the OS versus the Librem which people would kind of (rightly) expect to be fully-formed at launch. As things stand today, we expect a fully functional prototype in August https://www.pine64.org/2019/06/06/june-2019-news-pinephone-pinebook-pro-and-pinetab/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/06/06/june-2019-news-pinephone-p... https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Project_Don't_be_evil https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Project_Don't_be_evil
    - allana 7y ago
      The Allwinner A64 platform has numerous developers working on it compared to the iMX8, which has really fleshed out fully featured hardware support over the last few years. Running most Linux distros should be a breeze on the Pinephone!
      - megous 7y ago
        That's a bit of an overstatement. It has some interested and active developers, but support is far from fleshed out, especially for the poratble device use. There are lots of patches floating around, that you can apply to the mainline linux tree, to get CPU DVFS, thermal management, to improve I2S support, etc. Suspend to RAM is nowhere to be seen, leaving you with always ON SoC, which will drain the battery in half a day doing nothing. It's all fixable, but let's not pretend A64 has fully fleshed out HW support in the mainline Linux kernel. OTOH, there's a great potential, because Quectel EC25 broadband module also runs Linux and has some potential for being hackable: https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki So there's definitely a lot of fun to be had with the future PinePhone. You'll be able to log in to your broadband module and perhaps modify it: https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki/EC25_Linux https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki/EC...
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      Thank you! I will keep an eye on this.
- floren 7y ago
  I'm extremely excited for the Pinephone and intend to order one as soon as it becomes available. I may resurrect Hellaphone on it (edit: oops fix link https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/wiki/Home https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/wiki/Home) or at the very least start building my own library of no-bullshit phone tools, free from modern phone crap.
  - ThreeFx 7y ago
    The link is dead (404), do you have another one?
    - floren 7y ago
      Sorry, I was typing it from memory and forgot that the repo was named "inferno" not "hellaphone". Fixed.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- craftyguy 7y ago
  The pinephone only has a wifi radio and lacks any cell radios, thus it is incapable of connecting to cellular networks. It's basically an 'internet tablet' and not a phone (at least in the 'traditional' sense) like the name suggests.
  - fabrice_d 7y ago
    I think you are talking about the Necunos device. The pinephone is ... a phone. See https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ where they list the modem being a "Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands".
    - craftyguy 7y ago
      Oops, yea I was thinking of the Necunos.
  - redwards510 7y ago
    Then why does it say this: we also settled on the number, and the implementation of, privacy switches on the phone – there will be 4 switches in total: for the i) BT/Wifi module, ii) the modem, iii) cameras (front/back) and iv) lastly for the microphone. and right on the pinephone page it says it has this chip: https://www.quectel.com/product/eg25g.htm https://www.quectel.com/product/eg25g.htm Key Benefits ● LTE Cat 4 module optimized for M2M and IoT applications ● Worldwide LTE, UMTS/HSPA+ and GSM/GPRS/EDGE coverage ● Multi-constellation GNSS receiver available for applications requiring fast and accurate fixes in any environment ● Feature refinements: supports DFOTA*, eCall and DTMF* ● MIMO technology meets demands for data rate and link reliability in modem wireless communication systems Sounds like a cell radio to me.
- bpye 7y ago
  I definitely intend to pick up a PinePhone. At 200$ I'm not going to be annoyed if the software isn't 100% or it can't replace all functions of my current Android device. For 200$ email, SMS, calling and VoIP are pretty much enough. The $650 Librem are asking, I'm sure is well justified, but is a much harder pill to swallow for something that I am well aware will not be able to replace my current device immediately.
vbezhenar 7y ago
5.7" screen is HUGE. I wish someone would build phone with 3.5-4" screen. It's so handy to operate phone with a single hand.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  It's on par with most other phones, which I agree is huge. Smaller would take a lot more work, so I'm okay with a larger first version.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    Yeah larger screens gives them some more leeway internally but does kind of restrain them a bit too because the larger screen wants more battery which requires a certain amount of space. If you've ever seen a tear down of the iPhone X for example the boards are actually stacked to maximize the space available for battery in the thin form. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+X+Teardown/98975#s182892 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+X+Teardown/98975#s182...
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      I think the larger screen is also beneficial for the interface since it is based on Gnome and not some touch-only gui.
    - jstanley 7y ago
      That's brilliant. That effectively allows them to put components in the middle of a multi-layer PCB.
- markstos 7y ago
  If the phone is narrow enough, you can still operate singlehanded, with a certain amount of sliding the phone up and down.
- berbec 7y ago
  There's a reason the iPhone 5/SE refurbs hit the front page of HN every time the Apple store restock the refurbs.
prolepunk 7y ago
Hmmm, almost exactly half the specs of OnePlus 3, way more expensive than OnePlus 3 when it came out 3 years ago. How this is better than installing lineage Os on oneplus 3? -- https://download.lineageos.org/oneplus3 https://download.lineageos.org/oneplus3 I understand anyone who wants privacy need to pay extra, but is it really justifiable to pay this much for that?
- redwards510 7y ago
  You aren't buying a phone, you are buying an Experience.
  - AgloeDreams 7y ago
    Otherwise known as 'we found a way to charge ~$350 for an Open Source OS.'
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      If it was that easy, then they would have released it months ago. No, it takes work and work costs money.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  It's not an Android variant, it's a Debian variant. Yes.
- ThreeFx 7y ago
  As someone "upgrading" from the OnePlus 3: It isn't about the hardware, and it also isn't about PureOS itself. It's about people caring enough to build an entirely new mobile operating system which actually respects your privacy and gives you tools to ensure it. I'm really amazed at what they got running in the few years this project existed. Of course the phone won't be some spectacular mobile gaming machine, but that's not what I paid for. I paid for a privacy-respecting, secure phone. I paid for getting Linux to run on mobile OSes. That's what is important to me and many others.
canadaduane 7y ago
I love that there are 3 hardware kill switches, and that turning all 3 off "additionally disable[s] IMU+compass & GNSS, ambient light and proximity sensors." There are so many ways in which clever hackers have teased out information from thin streams of always-on sensor data. It would also be kind of cool if they added physical LED lights reflecting hardware activity, normally covered by some physical blinder that you could remove if you're curious--for example, a light indicating WIFI traffic, one for each sensor, etc.
- stinos 7y ago
  I wonder if these are pure hardware switches, like in distinct on/off positions where the off position is wired directly to the sensor's power or similar, or more like buttons with software behind them which then does whatever action (and hence can be changed)?
  - berbec 7y ago
    They say hardware kill switches. 0: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
- cal5k 7y ago
  Exactly. I absolutely detest the fact that my carrier can remotely activate my phone's baseband processor to conduct surveillance. Without a hardware kill switch there's basically no way to prevent this other than, perhaps, using a faraday bag.
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    And if they really wanted to, your phone could record the audio, GPS, etc and then transmit once it's out of the faraday bag.
    - ISL 7y ago
      To be pedantic, a sufficient Faraday cage will block GPS (but not audio, acceleration, etc...)
kapnobatairza 7y ago
I've been looking for a "FOSS" phone that is based purely on AOSP. I don't want a custom ROM, Play Store, cloud, or to have to create any accounts or sign into anything. I just want a simple Android phone with decent specs that I can install APKs on. Does this exist at all? Or do I have to buy/pay for a "full" Android phone and reflash it?
- eptcyka 7y ago
  You could buy a Pixel and put GrapheneOS on it. https://grapheneos.org/#device-support https://grapheneos.org/#device-support
  - zyren 7y ago
    Their website does a pretty horrible job of selling the OS. I was interested until i saw 0 screenshots of what the OS actually looked like. None on their website or github.
    - bubblethink 7y ago
      It looks like AOSP. There is no extra eye candy or frills, and that's not even remotely their focus.
  - craftyguy 7y ago
    > I don't want a custom ROM
  - kop316 7y ago
    I looked at the page, it is interesting, but I have never heard anything about this. They page didn't also say anything about who they were/what they do? Do you have anywhere with more information about this/the folks behind it?
    - Tepix 7y ago
      It's the successor of the Copperhead OS project. Some details at https://liliputing.com/2019/04/grapheneos-is-an-android-based-security-hardened-open-source-operating-system.html https://liliputing.com/2019/04/grapheneos-is-an-android-base...
JoshTriplett 7y ago
> 5.7″ IPS TFT screen @ 720×1440 Sad that this didn't end up using a low-power OLED screen. I can live with 720p resolution, but I'm surprised that for the cost an OLED screen wasn't possible. I was hoping that such a screen on an open device would help drive the adoption of dark themes in applications for power-saving reasons. Still looking forward to trying the device, though.
- mrob 7y ago
  I prefer LCD. AFAIK, all OLED screens on the market use PWM brightness control in the 100s of Hz range, which for many people causes phantom array effect during eye movement. LCDs can have DC backlights, avoiding this annoyance.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    Also most OLEDs have purple ghosting and burn-in which is annoying for many.
  - shrimp_emoji 7y ago
    I've never noticed that. What I have noticed is OLED's true blacks. It looks great when reading at night[0] -- it's just the letters floating in darkness. With a backlit LCD, it's a moderately-bright gray rectangle with letters in it. 0: https://i.imgur.com/EpyXoAR.png https://i.imgur.com/EpyXoAR.png (FBReader with Monofonto font; book is one in The Hyperion Cantos series by Dan Simmons)
  - JoshTriplett 7y ago
    First I've heard of that; interesting. From what I can tell, that's something software can potentially mitigate and smooth out on some displays?
    - mrob 7y ago
      100% duty cycle PWM is the same as DC, so you can mitigate it by setting the hardware brightness to maximum and scaling image brightness down in software to compensate. This isn't a good solution because it sacrifices color bit depth, causing banding.
zeveb 7y ago
Ever since I saw the project come out, I've been thinking about what would be required for me to switch from Android. Right now I think that my hard requirements are: - Firefox (pretty sure they have it) - Signal (I use it all the time) I don't know if some kind of TOTP store (think Google Authenticator or andOTP) is a hard requirement or a soft one, but it would surely be useful. I can live without my banking app (there's always the website); I can live without Uber or the Google apps; I can live without Kindle and all my streaming (could always keep a SIMless phone around to use as a media device). As long as it has a browser and Signal, I really think it could be competitive.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  Signals going to be a no go right? From what I remember it needs google services for push notifications. As far as the non mobile version, I think that is an election app that uses a pretty good chunk of ram
  - moosingin3space 7y ago
    Signal can use WebSockets, as their non-FCM version (downloaded from their website) does. I've come to agree with Daniel Micay about the best way to separate apps from Google services: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/b9j6pe/compatibility_layer_for_google_services/ek7hcf1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/b9j6pe/compatib...
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Right, Signal won't be on it at release, maybe ever. They are recommending Matrix as a substitute, so I am getting used to that. Riot.im is the client, and Matrix is a little more capable than Signal (does interest groups), and doesn't demand your phone number or rely on Google Play services, so there's that. As usual, the problem is getting other people to switch, too. A Matrix <-> Signal gateway server somewhere would help a lot of people make the jump.
    - jethro_tell 7y ago
mpnordland 7y ago
So for me, this is roughly what I want in a phone. But the thing is, I bought a phone over two years ago, with better specs for $100 less. That same phone today is priced at $200-$300. The way I see it the real value add for this phone is the software, and this whole mainline Linux, FOSS, run whatever you want approach is very attractive to me. But is it worth $700? Is it worth $700 when my current phone is in great condition and most likely will be usable for several more years? I feel bad, because I do want to support this kind of thing, I'm just not sure that buying __this__ phone is the right decision for me.
- smnplk 7y ago
  I think it's the best decision for future you.
- jraph 7y ago
  From an environmental perspective, it makes sense to keep your current phone as long as possible. I'd love to get rid of this thing full of proprietary stuff though.
  - wiz21c 7y ago
    Same dilemma for me. But I think environment priority is more important because freedom can't exist without environment. (now, it just could happen that my current phone breaks for a very unfortunate, totally unplanned, "accident" :-))
    - swiley 7y ago
      Making the moral decision requires freedom. Look at where the modern PC ecosystem is right now with windows: huge chunks of unusable plastic,fiberglass, and metal with serious software flaws that turn them into useless trash shortly after people buy them. When the community (much less, the individual consumer) can’t deal with broken software that’s tied to their (unupgradable) hardware it all just accumulates in landfills. People accept that you have to buy new phones and laptops every couple years because they have no other practical choice. I’m not sure I could say one should have a higher priority than the other, in fact I’m almost certain I could say they can’t.
MrMember 7y ago
I don't understand how they're still committing to shipping in Q3. From the last monthly update it doesn't look like they're all that close to a final release.
- jstanley 7y ago
  I agree. There's no evidence that they have even a single prototype phone in the final form factor, let alone any tooling to make the cases etc. I've preordered one, and I hope I eventually get it, but I think shipping in Q3 is just not going to happen.
  - Rooster61 7y ago
    What are the application demo videos running on? Is that just a dev board below the screen?
    - jstanley 7y ago
      Yes (or, where it's a screen capture, it's from a dev board or emulator).
Endy 7y ago
I'm sorry, this device profile doesn't really sell me on why I need to upgrade from my Android TracFone; it doesn't even give me confidence that it will work with the networks I need it to. This is part of the problem I've found over the years with consumer Unix-derivatives - too many "figure it out yourself" answers, not enough "just works, or we'll show you how to figure out whether it works or not first". That's the big reason why Microsoft & Apple still are the default desktop OSes, I think.
- moftz 7y ago
  https://puri.sm/faq/supported-networks/ https://puri.sm/faq/supported-networks/ They already have a list of LTE bands that will work depending on if you buy the Europe or US variant. That list is only for the Gemalto PLS8-US and PLS8-E. There is another Broadmobi BM818 module as well. For the US, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile support the 2, 4, 5, and 17 LTE bands that work with the PLS8-US. All of Europe should be supported on the PLS8-E. The BM818 mention doesn't specify which version. On the FCC's website, there is a manual that lists bands 2, 4, 5, and 17 so at least it will work in the US. When buying any sort of unlocked phone, you usually have to check all of the bands with your carrier just in case. When you buying a phone from a carrier, they have already done all of the work for you in terms of checking compatibility.
  - checktheorder 7y ago
    Thanks, that link was helpful. The US version will work on two LTE bands on my carrier in Canada. I was waiting to order until the radio bands were finalized.
  - Endy 7y ago
    Thank you for the link.
  - flukus 7y ago
    I sure hope that page is meant to be a technical spec sheet and not intended for consumers because it's mostly gibberish terms I've never heard of to me even as a technical person. The frequency check site they link to also has a confusing layout, is US centric and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to use it for. It would be much better if they could simplify the chart to display country, network and the variants of their phone. This is a very common problem with phone retailers and why I never order internationally. This is the final checklist item before I pre-order.
amfsn 7y ago
$700 for this? It's gonna flop really hard.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  I doubt it, considering people said the same thing about their laptops, and yet they appear to be successful enough.
leeoniya 7y ago
5.7" is huge. and 720px on a screen that size is going to look seriously underwhelming :( my 2015 sony z5 compact is 4.6" and has a 720px display. hopefully they can get the size down in gen 2 to something i can comfortably EDC/use.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
So we knew about the Gemalto PLS8, and I noted as someone on Verizon that the PLS8 wasn't approved for Verizon but other variants/similar Gemalto chips were. Still no word on an option for those, but the Broadmobi BM818 is new, and I haven't found much about it yet. Most results on search link back to Purism, so it may not be a widely used chip. It got FCC approval last December, and the documents there say it supports LTE on bands 2, 4, and 13, which would technically make it capable of supporting Verizon? But it isn't on Verizon's approved modules list, so it's likely it couldn't be activated at this time. I'd be curious what Purism's thoughts were on the chipset choices and what networks they're supposed to work with.
dewyatt 7y ago
The product page does not completely agree with all of these tech specs: https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
- dewyatt 7y ago
  I just went ahead and placed my order anyways. :)
lousken 7y ago
why no ac wifi? even my 6year old s4 has one
- ThreeFx 7y ago
  Because this isn't a top-of-the-line phone. It's an experiment by Purism bringing Linux and the smartphone world closer together.
  - lousken 7y ago
    I mean sure? But on the other hand it still costs 650$ so if they'd charge me double for the privacy, it should be comparable to at least 300$ which is not
- __d 7y ago
  I think the problem is that 802.11ac requires a non-free software blob? It supports 802.11n, for which a non-blob solution is available.
sgeisler 7y ago
As someone who backed them in 2017 I'm so happy to finally see the specs. It's amazing to follow their progress, I love what they are doing with Gnome/Phosh, that gives me hope that there will be many native apps for the most important tasks and not just some web-app mess. For the people complaining about the price/specs ratio: this phone is no standard off-the-shelve system, it had to be designed with user privacy and openness in mind while having a ridiculously small market. I'm amazed they did it so cheaply. Personally I hope that they will be able to sell enough to continue development. Maybe this will lead to a second generation with multiple models for different market segments. I'd love a librem phone with a good old blackberry keyboard in the <1500$ price range with a little more RAM/CPU power and screws holding the back plate.
- ThreeFx 7y ago
  I'd go even a step further: Since they open-sourced all their work, maybe other vendors can pick up / fork where they left off and we may actually have more than one Linux phone in the future! Two years ago that seemed like wishful thinking to me, but I am very excited about how far Purism got in an even shorter timespan.
  - dastx 7y ago
    > fork It'll probably be a closed source fork. Defeating the whole purpose of Librem.
    - mbowcutt 7y ago
      I think the Librem5 will have a CC-by-SA 4.0 license, aka copyleft, so it'd have to be open source.
      - meruru 7y ago
        That's a weird statement. Why would they use a CC license, rather than a software license like the GPL?
andrewflnr 7y ago
The only real obstacle for me is that a large fraction of what I do with my phone is listen to Spotify. It's not clear to me whether or how well it will be supported. (More research: looks like I would have to install Ubuntu Touch and a third party app?) That said, I'm tempted to go for it anyway.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  I don't use that service, but it looks like they have a player for the web browser, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
  - lvl4x 7y ago
    You probably won't have the option to store your playlists locally though, and streaming music with mobile net could get expensive. The other big apps without good mobile web versions are Whatsapp, Signal, and Telegram. Those could be show-stoppers for some people.
    - chupasaurus 7y ago
      Telegram Desktop would run fine on Librem 5 on Plasma Mobile (magic of QT) and clunky on Gnome (but I might be wrong), as well as APKs on Android emulator like Anbox.
  - ptx 7y ago
    It might require DRM? (Mystery binary blobs running in your browser to enable DRM is in the web standards.) There is an open source client library for Spotify Premium though, it seems: https://github.com/librespot-org/librespot/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/librespot-org/librespot/blob/master/READM...
- jdillaaa 7y ago
  Spotify has a linux client that runs on electron. The Librem 5 runs a full Debian OS. So you should be able to run electron on it without any issues.
leetbulb 7y ago
Would be nice if it had a hardware kill switch for other sensors (especially MEMS-based) such as accelerometer: Edit: It does. Nice. https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/mems-accelerometers-as-acoustic-pickups.html https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/mems-acce... https://dl.packetstormsecurity.net/papers/general/traynor-ccs11.pdf https://dl.packetstormsecurity.net/papers/general/traynor-cc...
- Tepix 7y ago
  Kill switches are just an addendum if you don't trust the software. Of course the OS can also prevent apps from accessing parts of the phones like the accelerometer if the user configures it that way.
  - OrgNet 7y ago
    there's always bugs in software even if you trust the developers...
- zecken 7y ago
  It says in this post that the IMU is killed when all 3 other skill switches are off
  - leetbulb 7y ago
    Wow, I totally skipped over that. Wasn't familiar enough with the acronym. Very nice.
azinman2 7y ago
Why no LTE?
- thepete2 7y ago
  It does have 4G, which I think is the same
remlov 7y ago
> OpenGL/ES 3.1, Vulkan, OpenCL 1.2 How would they address these with Etnaviv? Is that a WIP?
xorcist 7y ago
While I really appreciate an enthusiast product (and is a proud owner of similar devices), I think Purism bit off a bit more than was necessary. Something a little bit closer to mainstream hardware would have gotten a device out earlier, and in the hands of more potential developers faster, with more time to implement whatever bits and pieces were unsatisfying. The Pinephone has a fraction of the cost and have the potential to bigger developer mindshare. The specs are worse but that's not why you buy any of these things anyway. Phones hardware have peaked and that makes it all the more interesting for someone interested in software and what it can do. Next year will be interesting.
- swiley 7y ago
  I’m not convinced. None of the mainstream hardware I’ve seen could run wayland or X acceptably due to screwy graphics drivers and documentation hidden behind NDAs (yay Qualcomm.) If you’re going to bother putting work into something at least pick something that 1) isn’t actively fighting you 2) actually does what you want. (Unless you meant SBC hardware, there’s plenty of IMX stuff out there not the least of which were the kindles.)
pgcj_poster 7y ago
This phone has a higher screen resolution than my laptop. It also has almost as much memory, but I guess that's a prerequisite for running Gnome. Why didn't they go for Xmonad?
- ptx 7y ago
  They replaced GNOME's shell/window manager/compositor with their own (phosh/phoc).
novaRom 7y ago
I like they use main processing unit from a Dutch company; is its ROM open source or/and can be accessed? All ARM-based Sytem-on-Chips do have a proprietary ROM, which is used mainly for boot-up and multicore management. But there's no access to check if it may do something else. >> The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware this is another vulnerability
- floatboth 7y ago
  The immutable ROM that finds firmware and jumps to it is indeed usually proprietary, but since it's tiny and immutable, it's considered "part of hardware" and is okay even for the FSF "Respects your Freedom" certification. The one mutable/loadable blob the i.MX8 requires is firmware for the DDR4 PHY (not training code you run on the CPU, but something that runs on the PHY apparently??) and they're using an embedded tiny cortex-M4 core to just load it: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurdle/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurd... (IMO, that's a silly requirement from the FSF, I think keeping the main CPU free of blobs that it doesn't run i.e. blobs for other things does not have any meaningful benefits)
  - als0 7y ago
    > (IMO, that's a silly requirement from the FSF, I think keeping the main CPU free of blobs that it doesn't run i.e. blobs for other things does not have any meaningful benefits) Depends on how privileged the peripheral or subsystem is. And what data it is trusted with. If it can't harm the main CPU and is properly confined then it's fine in my book.
- mkesper 7y ago
  >> The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware > this is another vulnerability That's why there's a hardware kill switch on it.
Animats 7y ago
early bird discounted price of $649 And people used to say iPhones were overpriced.
- rchaud 7y ago
  The response to that has always been, people will pay the Apple premium because to them it's worth it, for the camera, for iMessage, for ease of use, etc. Why can't the same principle apply here, but with respect to user-toggle-able hardware switches and replaceable batteries?
- jandrese 7y ago
  iPhones are over $1000 now.
bufferoverflow 7y ago
You lost me at the resolution. 720p is ridiculous in 2019. Also 32GB of internal storage is extremely restricting (even with the SD card, apps like to install on the main storage).
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  > apps like to install on the main storage This isn't Android. It's a computer and any partition you put on a secondary storage device, can be done on this computer that makes phone calls.
- swiley 7y ago
  I’ve owned laptops running the upstream OS with that much storage, it’s fine as long as you don’t install any really poorly done closed software. Re: “main storage” there’s no reason for that, it’s just more android brokenness.
- messo 7y ago
  I have put my root folder on a 32GB M.2 in my X220 and that has been more than enough storage for all of the different distros I have run the last 5 years. I expect to replace my current laptop with the Librem 5 as my daily driver. Having a real linux-distro on my phone is a dream come true, especially when I can dock it with my monitor at home and use it as a regular laptop.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    Same here. I've been occasionally hitting 32GB with my / when I let my system grow really messy, but a quick look at big and unused packages was enough to clean it up. For a GNU/Linux system, 32GB is a lot. It would still be nice to have more for added comfort, but it's not like it's a big deal.
brakmic 7y ago
Excellent intentions, but technological garbage.
jdofaz 7y ago
I wouldn't pre-order something like this because I don't yet know if it will be reliable. I see the value in what they are offering but it isn't battle tested yet. I don't want to relive the early smartphone days where the phone crashes when I'm trying to answer a phone call.
- sgeisler 7y ago
  I think this first model is for enthusiasts who can afford it and want to fund the development. It won't be perfect yet. If you think about it as a donation it makes a lot more sense.
dustfinger 7y ago
Will Librem 5 provide a way to turn off SMT? EDIT It looks like Librem5 has a serial port [1] so you can build PureOS and flash your phone with a custom build. In that case you can configure the kernel and turn off SMT if desired. Nice :-) [1] https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Hardware_Reference.html#usb https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Hardware_Reference.html#us...
- dan1234 7y ago
  I assuming SMT mean Surface Mount Technology, in this context? It would be nice if people expanded their TLAs once in a while!
  - dustfinger 7y ago
    I was referring to Symmetric Multi-Processing kernel support. Since the Librem 5 has a serial port via usb, the kernel can be easily customized to suit an individual's needs. If you mess up you can just flash the last known good. It is hacker friendly :-)
    - dan1234 7y ago
      Ok, wouldn’t that be SMP, rather than SMT?
      - aquabeagle 7y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading
        dustfinger 7y ago
        That's it! Thanks for correcting me :-)
      - dustfinger 7y ago
        Sorry, it is actually called Simultaneous multithreading (SMT).
shmerl 7y ago
So little RAM?
INTPenis 7y ago
I just found out they didn't use AOSP. Ok so it's based on Linux but isn't anyone worried that they're re-inventing some wheels by not using AOSP? Or is there a licensing issue I'm not aware of? Edit: Sorry but my cynicism stems from backing a lot of open source attempts, including N900 with Maemo, ZTE Blade and Jolla. I ended up giving away two of those and the last is rotting in storage.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  My understanding is open-sourcs vs closed-source (the binary driver blobs that other phones require).
  - chupasaurus 7y ago
    Exactly this. Also no one could block adding the hardware support into AOSP's HAL, so that option is possible.
- swiley 7y ago
  No, AOSP reinvented the wheel and gave us a broken mess as an excuse to push us into using google software. There’s nothing the phone really needs that hasn’t already been written, the only reinventing is them writting yet another palm pilot home screen knockoff.
Rooster61 7y ago
One thing that isn't clear to me. The phone clearly supports GPS in terms of hardware, but does it actually do anything with it? It won't have access to Google or Apple navigation, and that is certainly something I use my current phone's GPS for.
- bennofs 7y ago
  You can use Google maps navigation via a web browser
  - Casseres 7y ago
    Does it do turn-by-turn? I currently use Google Maps on my Android phone for its navigation. That's important to me, but another user is saying there are Linux apps that do that already, so for me, that's even better!
    - yepthatsreality 7y ago
      You can but the UI is super hostile: 1. asks if you want to install google maps app 2. link to get it to do turn by turn is a button called "Preview" This was my experience using safari on ios.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  PureMaps, Navit, GNOME Maps, Marble, TangoGPS, various OSM web UIs... There's plenty of GNU/Linux apps, some of them providing online and offline turn-by-turn navigation, and some of them even already working well on mobile form factors. The software will surely need some time in order to get polished enough to be used by a total newbie out-of-the-box, but it's not like there's no software for that at all.
  - Rooster61 7y ago
    Excellent to hear. Thanks. I was unaware of these applications. GPS navigation is a sticking point for me.
- 7y ago
Havoc 7y ago
Nice effort, but seems limited to the super privacy conscious. I don't see anyone else making those price/hardware trade-offs.
drngdds 7y ago
I love the idea of a phone that isn't built by Apple or a spyware company, but I'd be worried about software stability and support. GNU/Linux on the desktop has always been flaky for me, and flakiness is not an acceptable characteristic for a phone.
fataliss 7y ago
While I like underdogs and developing a 3 player in the smartphone OS market. That $700 seems like high cost to contribute to R&D.
- chupasaurus 7y ago
  It's a small (2.5k to 3k) batch and unusual tech specs (i.e. last time completely detached from SoC cellular/wi-fi modems were made in 2012 according to Purism). If there was a demand for 100k batch, it would be cost closer to $350 I believe.
  - fataliss 7y ago
    That makes sense. I guess there is always a community of Early adopters with disposable income willing to pay high dollar to play with the phone and contribute to it's development. Guess my idealistic mind wants to shortcut to the part where the phone is in an iPhone hardware/UI polish level with a linux OS solution, at which point I'd be happy to pay top dollar for it!
jnbiche 7y ago
These specs are really impressive. I'm actually in the market for a phone upgrade, and the $700 price is not an objection, given what I'd be supporting. What does concern me is the apparent lack of a verified boot option for the phone. I'm not sure, but it appears there's no trusted boot option to use signed firmware and OS. Android and iPhone have had verified boot for years now. Given Librem's focus on privacy and security, and assuming my understanding of the phone's current capabilities is correct, I'm surprised that Librem wasn't able to come up with some solution, particularly given their innovative approaches to firmware security in laptops. And I jumping to the wrong conclusion? Did they end up implementing a verified boot feature? Last I checked, it wasn't looking very likely. They had pretty much ruled out TPM. Regardless, a big congratulation to librem. They've accomplished a very difficult goal. I'm guessing that if they don't have a verified boot currently, they're working on it for future versions of the phone.
- dewyatt 7y ago
  Hmm maybe they'll add something later. It does have smartcard support, so that may be one approach.
curioussavage 7y ago
I have wanted this phone for months but right now I kind of wish somebody would do a crowdfunding campaign to get one of the postmarketOS phones to great support. Pick a newer phone and a desktop , either plasma or phosh and do a crowdfunding campaign and just spend all the money on getting things working as perfectly as possible. Buy a bunch of refurbished phones of that model and sell them with the software pre installed. Like purism you could bundle it with a subscription or partner with a company and take a cut.
hajile 7y ago
Can someone tell me why they opted for the imx8m with 4 A53 cores rather than the imx8 which adds 2 A72 cores (3-6x faster) and 2x the GPU performance? A $35 raspberry pi 4 has way more computing power than this phone while being 20x cheaper.
- ryukafalz 7y ago
  Battery life, probably. Faster isn't always better on a device that has to worry about its power budget. Heat was probably a consideration too. It's all well and good to compare this thing to a Pi 4, but I'm not sure you'd want to hold that Pi under load.
XorNot 7y ago
Not thrilled about that horizontal screen resolution. 720 is a bit too few pixels.
IloveHN84 7y ago
My comment might be controversial, but for 649$, the hardware specs are felt like a smartphone of 2-3 years ago (or even more). They could have invested in a octa-core phone and more RAM or a better rear camera. 13Mpixels cameras are there since the Samsung Galaxy S4, for instance. When the phone will come out, I will be already old. Sure, the final user isn't the typical iOS/Android one, but the lack of fundamental applications and a real app ecosystem should led them thinking of reducing their tag price.
foobar_ 7y ago
Has anyone used rasberry pi as a phone ?
Arbalest 7y ago
Looks like the best option is the EU radio if you're in Australia. However, that won't support Telstra's 3G, which might cut you out of voice calls. If you have the option of provider, go Optus, that will give you most of the 3G and 4G bands they have on the EU Radio. US radio only supports Telstra 3G and Vodafone 4G, and nothing else.
- vinay427 7y ago
  It's rather unfortunate for those who travel as well. Most mid-tier or high-end smartphones on the market today seem to work fine for LTE and voice calls on nearly every major carrier worldwide.
gradschool 7y ago
It's great to see this project coming to fruition. My main reservation about owning a smartphone has always been the idea of a device that knows everything about me under the control of God knows who. This phone partially addresses that issue, but can anyone here who's knowledgeable about encryption comment on that aspect? Without some form of encrypted storage it would seem like game-over when a well resourced adversary gains physical possession.
- ThreeFx 7y ago
  That is correct, in that case you need to encrypt either the files you want to be safe, or use full-disk encryption. I have no idea whether Purism will support selective file encryption or FDE out of the box, but it'd be pretty cool if they did. That said, under the hood your phone is basically a Linux device, so doing this yourself might need some basic know-how of Linux administration, but shouldn't be too hard (regarding file encryption, FDE may be trickier).
  - yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
    Yeah, FDE is hard, but encfs or ext4-native encryption it easy enough.
codedokode 7y ago
But it is pretty expensive. There are Chinese phones with 4 cores, similar amount of memory and same screen size that are 4 times cheaper. Would not it be better to take any of them and replace the firmware instead of making their own platform?
- nsajko 7y ago
  Hardware kill switches were designed into the phones.
gpjanik 7y ago
In the "about" (our story) section there's some bs and a picture of a girl with blurred city background, file titled: https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-blurred-background-1239291-1.jpg https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-... I mean... How can people still do this in 2019
- CogitoCogito 7y ago
  > In the "about" (our story) section there's some bs and a picture of a girl with blurred city background, file titled: > https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-.. https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-.... > I mean... How can people still do this in 2019 What is the main thing you take issue with? The filename? The fact that the picture is not directly related to the project? The fact that the woman in the picture is attractive?
exabrial 7y ago
This is incredible! I can live workout wireless charging for the moment. An ip rating would be important to me though (lightly resistant to rain/dust). I imagine that's incredibly hard to design with replaceable batteries. I'll let the reviewers take a gander at the camera and quality and I might give this a go.
brendyn 7y ago
I saw a demo of the test board on video and the touch interface latency was very high. is it the hardware or the software? has it improved? It was quite frustratingly slow by the looks of it.
- thepete2 7y ago
  That was a driver issue IIRC and has since been solved. At least here [1] it looks okay to me. Not great, but okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9X53UGdvX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9X53UGdvX8
collyw 7y ago
Whats the software selection going to be like for this phone? I bought an Ubuntu phone, and while the phone was nice enough, the lack of apps made it a bit crap. No Whatsapp (I was happy enough using telegram, but my friends were not). The maps application was web based, so didn't launch unless you had internet connection.
wpdev_63 7y ago
It will be curious to see if these will be vulnerable to electronic device interceptions with the NSA TAO[0]. I'd imagine they are already working on building a replacement PCB to drop in and image. There's alot people including journalists, whistleblowers, high level execs, people being targeted(T.I.'s) etc. would easily pay triple MSRP for a secure phone from government entities. It would be interesting to see if they can do it on a software level anyways. [0]:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa...
WhooisWhoo 7y ago
Not everyone agrees with the privacy marketing of the Librem 5 > The Librem 5 is a phone that is falsely marketed as a secure and private device. This is not true. > The Librem 5 does nothing for privacy. Installing a Linux distro is no more private than just using an ungooglified ROM. The mic kill switch is useless as they don't block access to the sensors so audio can still be gotten. The camera kill switch is also useless as you could just cover the camera with tape. > They also weaken security. They use old hardware which doesn't have many hardware security features such as a hardware backed keystore. > They aren't shipping firmware updates. Now your firmware will be outdated and insecure. > Instead of using Android, they use PureOS which is a massive security decrease as you won't have kernel hardening, SELinux, seccomp filters, verified boot etc. like Android already has. PureOS doesn't even have a proper app sandbox. > https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/cje7vg/dont_use_pureos_or_the_librem_5/?limit=500 https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/cje7vg/dont_use_pu...
8881 7y ago
The key question here is : can the phone be booted from the removable storage card ? Without such final control of your data, you can be pressed to decrypt your internal disk by any repressive acting party - and those are rising steadily. Hence the only save way to give users REAL control of their data, privacy - and safety from torture, repression etc, is a removable storage which holds the OS and user data. Anything less looks like cosmetic pseudo privacy and security.Can Librem boot the OS from the sd card, then ?

419 points by thepete2 7y ago

Low budget alternative: The Pinephone by Pine64, also with 4 ARM Cortex-A53 cores. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

RandomBacon 7y ago
Cool, I want to get one of those also, but they're not selling it and I don't see any links about when we can buy it, for how much, and when it will ship.
- megous 7y ago
  Probably by the end of the year. Early prototypes should ship next month, but who knows.
- redwards510 7y ago
  I can't find the info for the price, but I remember seeing it before and it was very low, like $200, which would make this a very exciting entry into the notAndroidOrIOS market. The Librem 5 was cool at first, until they started delaying it indefinitely and the price is too high for mass adoption. By having a very low price on the Pinephone they are courting a lot more tinkerers to get one and help develop the OS versus the Librem which people would kind of (rightly) expect to be fully-formed at launch. As things stand today, we expect a fully functional prototype in August https://www.pine64.org/2019/06/06/june-2019-news-pinephone-pinebook-pro-and-pinetab/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/06/06/june-2019-news-pinephone-p... https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Project_Don't_be_evil https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Project_Don't_be_evil
  - allana 7y ago
    The Allwinner A64 platform has numerous developers working on it compared to the iMX8, which has really fleshed out fully featured hardware support over the last few years. Running most Linux distros should be a breeze on the Pinephone!
    - megous 7y ago
      That's a bit of an overstatement. It has some interested and active developers, but support is far from fleshed out, especially for the poratble device use. There are lots of patches floating around, that you can apply to the mainline linux tree, to get CPU DVFS, thermal management, to improve I2S support, etc. Suspend to RAM is nowhere to be seen, leaving you with always ON SoC, which will drain the battery in half a day doing nothing. It's all fixable, but let's not pretend A64 has fully fleshed out HW support in the mainline Linux kernel. OTOH, there's a great potential, because Quectel EC25 broadband module also runs Linux and has some potential for being hackable: https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki So there's definitely a lot of fun to be had with the future PinePhone. You'll be able to log in to your broadband module and perhaps modify it: https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki/EC25_Linux https://projects.osmocom.org/projects/quectel-modems/wiki/EC...
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    Thank you! I will keep an eye on this.
floren 7y ago
I'm extremely excited for the Pinephone and intend to order one as soon as it becomes available. I may resurrect Hellaphone on it (edit: oops fix link https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/wiki/Home https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/wiki/Home) or at the very least start building my own library of no-bullshit phone tools, free from modern phone crap.
- ThreeFx 7y ago
  The link is dead (404), do you have another one?
  - floren 7y ago
    Sorry, I was typing it from memory and forgot that the repo was named "inferno" not "hellaphone". Fixed.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
craftyguy 7y ago
The pinephone only has a wifi radio and lacks any cell radios, thus it is incapable of connecting to cellular networks. It's basically an 'internet tablet' and not a phone (at least in the 'traditional' sense) like the name suggests.
- fabrice_d 7y ago
  I think you are talking about the Necunos device. The pinephone is ... a phone. See https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ where they list the modem being a "Quectel EG-25G with worldwide bands".
  - craftyguy 7y ago
    Oops, yea I was thinking of the Necunos.
- redwards510 7y ago
  Then why does it say this: we also settled on the number, and the implementation of, privacy switches on the phone – there will be 4 switches in total: for the i) BT/Wifi module, ii) the modem, iii) cameras (front/back) and iv) lastly for the microphone. and right on the pinephone page it says it has this chip: https://www.quectel.com/product/eg25g.htm https://www.quectel.com/product/eg25g.htm Key Benefits ● LTE Cat 4 module optimized for M2M and IoT applications ● Worldwide LTE, UMTS/HSPA+ and GSM/GPRS/EDGE coverage ● Multi-constellation GNSS receiver available for applications requiring fast and accurate fixes in any environment ● Feature refinements: supports DFOTA*, eCall and DTMF* ● MIMO technology meets demands for data rate and link reliability in modem wireless communication systems Sounds like a cell radio to me.
bpye 7y ago
I definitely intend to pick up a PinePhone. At 200$ I'm not going to be annoyed if the software isn't 100% or it can't replace all functions of my current Android device. For 200$ email, SMS, calling and VoIP are pretty much enough. The $650 Librem are asking, I'm sure is well justified, but is a much harder pill to swallow for something that I am well aware will not be able to replace my current device immediately.

vbezhenar 7y ago

5.7" screen is HUGE. I wish someone would build phone with 3.5-4" screen. It's so handy to operate phone with a single hand.

RandomBacon 7y ago
It's on par with most other phones, which I agree is huge. Smaller would take a lot more work, so I'm okay with a larger first version.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Yeah larger screens gives them some more leeway internally but does kind of restrain them a bit too because the larger screen wants more battery which requires a certain amount of space. If you've ever seen a tear down of the iPhone X for example the boards are actually stacked to maximize the space available for battery in the thin form. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+X+Teardown/98975#s182892 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+X+Teardown/98975#s182...
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    I think the larger screen is also beneficial for the interface since it is based on Gnome and not some touch-only gui.
  - jstanley 7y ago
    That's brilliant. That effectively allows them to put components in the middle of a multi-layer PCB.
markstos 7y ago
If the phone is narrow enough, you can still operate singlehanded, with a certain amount of sliding the phone up and down.
berbec 7y ago
There's a reason the iPhone 5/SE refurbs hit the front page of HN every time the Apple store restock the refurbs.

prolepunk 7y ago

Hmmm, almost exactly half the specs of OnePlus 3, way more expensive than OnePlus 3 when it came out 3 years ago. How this is better than installing lineage Os on oneplus 3? -- https://download.lineageos.org/oneplus3 https://download.lineageos.org/oneplus3 I understand anyone who wants privacy need to pay extra, but is it really justifiable to pay this much for that?

redwards510 7y ago
You aren't buying a phone, you are buying an Experience.
- AgloeDreams 7y ago
  Otherwise known as 'we found a way to charge ~$350 for an Open Source OS.'
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    If it was that easy, then they would have released it months ago. No, it takes work and work costs money.
RandomBacon 7y ago
It's not an Android variant, it's a Debian variant. Yes.
ThreeFx 7y ago
As someone "upgrading" from the OnePlus 3: It isn't about the hardware, and it also isn't about PureOS itself. It's about people caring enough to build an entirely new mobile operating system which actually respects your privacy and gives you tools to ensure it. I'm really amazed at what they got running in the few years this project existed. Of course the phone won't be some spectacular mobile gaming machine, but that's not what I paid for. I paid for a privacy-respecting, secure phone. I paid for getting Linux to run on mobile OSes. That's what is important to me and many others.

canadaduane 7y ago

I love that there are 3 hardware kill switches, and that turning all 3 off "additionally disable[s] IMU+compass & GNSS, ambient light and proximity sensors." There are so many ways in which clever hackers have teased out information from thin streams of always-on sensor data. It would also be kind of cool if they added physical LED lights reflecting hardware activity, normally covered by some physical blinder that you could remove if you're curious--for example, a light indicating WIFI traffic, one for each sensor, etc.

stinos 7y ago
I wonder if these are pure hardware switches, like in distinct on/off positions where the off position is wired directly to the sensor's power or similar, or more like buttons with software behind them which then does whatever action (and hence can be changed)?
- berbec 7y ago
  They say hardware kill switches. 0: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
cal5k 7y ago
Exactly. I absolutely detest the fact that my carrier can remotely activate my phone's baseband processor to conduct surveillance. Without a hardware kill switch there's basically no way to prevent this other than, perhaps, using a faraday bag.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  And if they really wanted to, your phone could record the audio, GPS, etc and then transmit once it's out of the faraday bag.
  - ISL 7y ago
    To be pedantic, a sufficient Faraday cage will block GPS (but not audio, acceleration, etc...)

kapnobatairza 7y ago

I've been looking for a "FOSS" phone that is based purely on AOSP. I don't want a custom ROM, Play Store, cloud, or to have to create any accounts or sign into anything. I just want a simple Android phone with decent specs that I can install APKs on. Does this exist at all? Or do I have to buy/pay for a "full" Android phone and reflash it?

eptcyka 7y ago
You could buy a Pixel and put GrapheneOS on it. https://grapheneos.org/#device-support https://grapheneos.org/#device-support
- zyren 7y ago
  Their website does a pretty horrible job of selling the OS. I was interested until i saw 0 screenshots of what the OS actually looked like. None on their website or github.
  - bubblethink 7y ago
    It looks like AOSP. There is no extra eye candy or frills, and that's not even remotely their focus.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  > I don't want a custom ROM
- kop316 7y ago
  I looked at the page, it is interesting, but I have never heard anything about this. They page didn't also say anything about who they were/what they do? Do you have anywhere with more information about this/the folks behind it?
  - Tepix 7y ago
    It's the successor of the Copperhead OS project. Some details at https://liliputing.com/2019/04/grapheneos-is-an-android-based-security-hardened-open-source-operating-system.html https://liliputing.com/2019/04/grapheneos-is-an-android-base...

JoshTriplett 7y ago

> 5.7″ IPS TFT screen @ 720×1440 Sad that this didn't end up using a low-power OLED screen. I can live with 720p resolution, but I'm surprised that for the cost an OLED screen wasn't possible. I was hoping that such a screen on an open device would help drive the adoption of dark themes in applications for power-saving reasons. Still looking forward to trying the device, though.

mrob 7y ago
I prefer LCD. AFAIK, all OLED screens on the market use PWM brightness control in the 100s of Hz range, which for many people causes phantom array effect during eye movement. LCDs can have DC backlights, avoiding this annoyance.
- Avamander 7y ago
  Also most OLEDs have purple ghosting and burn-in which is annoying for many.
- shrimp_emoji 7y ago
  I've never noticed that. What I have noticed is OLED's true blacks. It looks great when reading at night[0] -- it's just the letters floating in darkness. With a backlit LCD, it's a moderately-bright gray rectangle with letters in it. 0: https://i.imgur.com/EpyXoAR.png https://i.imgur.com/EpyXoAR.png (FBReader with Monofonto font; book is one in The Hyperion Cantos series by Dan Simmons)
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  First I've heard of that; interesting. From what I can tell, that's something software can potentially mitigate and smooth out on some displays?
  - mrob 7y ago
    100% duty cycle PWM is the same as DC, so you can mitigate it by setting the hardware brightness to maximum and scaling image brightness down in software to compensate. This isn't a good solution because it sacrifices color bit depth, causing banding.

zeveb 7y ago

Ever since I saw the project come out, I've been thinking about what would be required for me to switch from Android. Right now I think that my hard requirements are: - Firefox (pretty sure they have it) - Signal (I use it all the time) I don't know if some kind of TOTP store (think Google Authenticator or andOTP) is a hard requirement or a soft one, but it would surely be useful. I can live without my banking app (there's always the website); I can live without Uber or the Google apps; I can live without Kindle and all my streaming (could always keep a SIMless phone around to use as a media device). As long as it has a browser and Signal, I really think it could be competitive.

jethro_tell 7y ago
Signals going to be a no go right? From what I remember it needs google services for push notifications. As far as the non mobile version, I think that is an election app that uses a pretty good chunk of ram
- moosingin3space 7y ago
  Signal can use WebSockets, as their non-FCM version (downloaded from their website) does. I've come to agree with Daniel Micay about the best way to separate apps from Google services: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/b9j6pe/compatibility_layer_for_google_services/ek7hcf1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/b9j6pe/compatib...
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Right, Signal won't be on it at release, maybe ever. They are recommending Matrix as a substitute, so I am getting used to that. Riot.im is the client, and Matrix is a little more capable than Signal (does interest groups), and doesn't demand your phone number or rely on Google Play services, so there's that. As usual, the problem is getting other people to switch, too. A Matrix <-> Signal gateway server somewhere would help a lot of people make the jump.
  - jethro_tell 7y ago

mpnordland 7y ago

So for me, this is roughly what I want in a phone. But the thing is, I bought a phone over two years ago, with better specs for $100 less. That same phone today is priced at $200-$300. The way I see it the real value add for this phone is the software, and this whole mainline Linux, FOSS, run whatever you want approach is very attractive to me. But is it worth $700? Is it worth $700 when my current phone is in great condition and most likely will be usable for several more years? I feel bad, because I do want to support this kind of thing, I'm just not sure that buying __this__ phone is the right decision for me.

smnplk 7y ago
I think it's the best decision for future you.
jraph 7y ago
From an environmental perspective, it makes sense to keep your current phone as long as possible. I'd love to get rid of this thing full of proprietary stuff though.
- wiz21c 7y ago
  Same dilemma for me. But I think environment priority is more important because freedom can't exist without environment. (now, it just could happen that my current phone breaks for a very unfortunate, totally unplanned, "accident" :-))
  - swiley 7y ago
    Making the moral decision requires freedom. Look at where the modern PC ecosystem is right now with windows: huge chunks of unusable plastic,fiberglass, and metal with serious software flaws that turn them into useless trash shortly after people buy them. When the community (much less, the individual consumer) can’t deal with broken software that’s tied to their (unupgradable) hardware it all just accumulates in landfills. People accept that you have to buy new phones and laptops every couple years because they have no other practical choice. I’m not sure I could say one should have a higher priority than the other, in fact I’m almost certain I could say they can’t.

MrMember 7y ago

I don't understand how they're still committing to shipping in Q3. From the last monthly update it doesn't look like they're all that close to a final release.

jstanley 7y ago
I agree. There's no evidence that they have even a single prototype phone in the final form factor, let alone any tooling to make the cases etc. I've preordered one, and I hope I eventually get it, but I think shipping in Q3 is just not going to happen.
- Rooster61 7y ago
  What are the application demo videos running on? Is that just a dev board below the screen?
  - jstanley 7y ago
    Yes (or, where it's a screen capture, it's from a dev board or emulator).

Endy 7y ago

I'm sorry, this device profile doesn't really sell me on why I need to upgrade from my Android TracFone; it doesn't even give me confidence that it will work with the networks I need it to. This is part of the problem I've found over the years with consumer Unix-derivatives - too many "figure it out yourself" answers, not enough "just works, or we'll show you how to figure out whether it works or not first". That's the big reason why Microsoft & Apple still are the default desktop OSes, I think.

moftz 7y ago
https://puri.sm/faq/supported-networks/ https://puri.sm/faq/supported-networks/ They already have a list of LTE bands that will work depending on if you buy the Europe or US variant. That list is only for the Gemalto PLS8-US and PLS8-E. There is another Broadmobi BM818 module as well. For the US, AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile support the 2, 4, 5, and 17 LTE bands that work with the PLS8-US. All of Europe should be supported on the PLS8-E. The BM818 mention doesn't specify which version. On the FCC's website, there is a manual that lists bands 2, 4, 5, and 17 so at least it will work in the US. When buying any sort of unlocked phone, you usually have to check all of the bands with your carrier just in case. When you buying a phone from a carrier, they have already done all of the work for you in terms of checking compatibility.
- checktheorder 7y ago
  Thanks, that link was helpful. The US version will work on two LTE bands on my carrier in Canada. I was waiting to order until the radio bands were finalized.
- Endy 7y ago
  Thank you for the link.
- flukus 7y ago
  I sure hope that page is meant to be a technical spec sheet and not intended for consumers because it's mostly gibberish terms I've never heard of to me even as a technical person. The frequency check site they link to also has a confusing layout, is US centric and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to use it for. It would be much better if they could simplify the chart to display country, network and the variants of their phone. This is a very common problem with phone retailers and why I never order internationally. This is the final checklist item before I pre-order.

amfsn 7y ago

$700 for this? It's gonna flop really hard.

RandomBacon 7y ago
I doubt it, considering people said the same thing about their laptops, and yet they appear to be successful enough.

leeoniya 7y ago

5.7" is huge. and 720px on a screen that size is going to look seriously underwhelming :( my 2015 sony z5 compact is 4.6" and has a 720px display. hopefully they can get the size down in gen 2 to something i can comfortably EDC/use.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

So we knew about the Gemalto PLS8, and I noted as someone on Verizon that the PLS8 wasn't approved for Verizon but other variants/similar Gemalto chips were. Still no word on an option for those, but the Broadmobi BM818 is new, and I haven't found much about it yet. Most results on search link back to Purism, so it may not be a widely used chip. It got FCC approval last December, and the documents there say it supports LTE on bands 2, 4, and 13, which would technically make it capable of supporting Verizon? But it isn't on Verizon's approved modules list, so it's likely it couldn't be activated at this time. I'd be curious what Purism's thoughts were on the chipset choices and what networks they're supposed to work with.

dewyatt 7y ago

The product page does not completely agree with all of these tech specs: https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

dewyatt 7y ago
I just went ahead and placed my order anyways. :)

lousken 7y ago

why no ac wifi? even my 6year old s4 has one

ThreeFx 7y ago
Because this isn't a top-of-the-line phone. It's an experiment by Purism bringing Linux and the smartphone world closer together.
- lousken 7y ago
  I mean sure? But on the other hand it still costs 650$ so if they'd charge me double for the privacy, it should be comparable to at least 300$ which is not
__d 7y ago
I think the problem is that 802.11ac requires a non-free software blob? It supports 802.11n, for which a non-blob solution is available.

sgeisler 7y ago

As someone who backed them in 2017 I'm so happy to finally see the specs. It's amazing to follow their progress, I love what they are doing with Gnome/Phosh, that gives me hope that there will be many native apps for the most important tasks and not just some web-app mess. For the people complaining about the price/specs ratio: this phone is no standard off-the-shelve system, it had to be designed with user privacy and openness in mind while having a ridiculously small market. I'm amazed they did it so cheaply. Personally I hope that they will be able to sell enough to continue development. Maybe this will lead to a second generation with multiple models for different market segments. I'd love a librem phone with a good old blackberry keyboard in the <1500$ price range with a little more RAM/CPU power and screws holding the back plate.

ThreeFx 7y ago
I'd go even a step further: Since they open-sourced all their work, maybe other vendors can pick up / fork where they left off and we may actually have more than one Linux phone in the future! Two years ago that seemed like wishful thinking to me, but I am very excited about how far Purism got in an even shorter timespan.
- dastx 7y ago
  > fork It'll probably be a closed source fork. Defeating the whole purpose of Librem.
  - mbowcutt 7y ago
    I think the Librem5 will have a CC-by-SA 4.0 license, aka copyleft, so it'd have to be open source.
    - meruru 7y ago
      That's a weird statement. Why would they use a CC license, rather than a software license like the GPL?

andrewflnr 7y ago

The only real obstacle for me is that a large fraction of what I do with my phone is listen to Spotify. It's not clear to me whether or how well it will be supported. (More research: looks like I would have to install Ubuntu Touch and a third party app?) That said, I'm tempted to go for it anyway.

RandomBacon 7y ago
I don't use that service, but it looks like they have a player for the web browser, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
- lvl4x 7y ago
  You probably won't have the option to store your playlists locally though, and streaming music with mobile net could get expensive. The other big apps without good mobile web versions are Whatsapp, Signal, and Telegram. Those could be show-stoppers for some people.
  - chupasaurus 7y ago
    Telegram Desktop would run fine on Librem 5 on Plasma Mobile (magic of QT) and clunky on Gnome (but I might be wrong), as well as APKs on Android emulator like Anbox.
- ptx 7y ago
  It might require DRM? (Mystery binary blobs running in your browser to enable DRM is in the web standards.) There is an open source client library for Spotify Premium though, it seems: https://github.com/librespot-org/librespot/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/librespot-org/librespot/blob/master/READM...
jdillaaa 7y ago
Spotify has a linux client that runs on electron. The Librem 5 runs a full Debian OS. So you should be able to run electron on it without any issues.

leetbulb 7y ago

Would be nice if it had a hardware kill switch for other sensors (especially MEMS-based) such as accelerometer: Edit: It does. Nice. https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf https://crypto.stanford.edu/gyrophone/files/gyromic.pdf https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/mems-accelerometers-as-acoustic-pickups.html https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/mems-acce... https://dl.packetstormsecurity.net/papers/general/traynor-ccs11.pdf https://dl.packetstormsecurity.net/papers/general/traynor-cc...

Tepix 7y ago
Kill switches are just an addendum if you don't trust the software. Of course the OS can also prevent apps from accessing parts of the phones like the accelerometer if the user configures it that way.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  there's always bugs in software even if you trust the developers...
zecken 7y ago
It says in this post that the IMU is killed when all 3 other skill switches are off
- leetbulb 7y ago
  Wow, I totally skipped over that. Wasn't familiar enough with the acronym. Very nice.

azinman2 7y ago

Why no LTE?

thepete2 7y ago
It does have 4G, which I think is the same

remlov 7y ago

> OpenGL/ES 3.1, Vulkan, OpenCL 1.2 How would they address these with Etnaviv? Is that a WIP?

xorcist 7y ago

While I really appreciate an enthusiast product (and is a proud owner of similar devices), I think Purism bit off a bit more than was necessary. Something a little bit closer to mainstream hardware would have gotten a device out earlier, and in the hands of more potential developers faster, with more time to implement whatever bits and pieces were unsatisfying. The Pinephone has a fraction of the cost and have the potential to bigger developer mindshare. The specs are worse but that's not why you buy any of these things anyway. Phones hardware have peaked and that makes it all the more interesting for someone interested in software and what it can do. Next year will be interesting.

swiley 7y ago
I’m not convinced. None of the mainstream hardware I’ve seen could run wayland or X acceptably due to screwy graphics drivers and documentation hidden behind NDAs (yay Qualcomm.) If you’re going to bother putting work into something at least pick something that 1) isn’t actively fighting you 2) actually does what you want. (Unless you meant SBC hardware, there’s plenty of IMX stuff out there not the least of which were the kindles.)

pgcj_poster 7y ago

This phone has a higher screen resolution than my laptop. It also has almost as much memory, but I guess that's a prerequisite for running Gnome. Why didn't they go for Xmonad?

ptx 7y ago
They replaced GNOME's shell/window manager/compositor with their own (phosh/phoc).

novaRom 7y ago

I like they use main processing unit from a Dutch company; is its ROM open source or/and can be accessed? All ARM-based Sytem-on-Chips do have a proprietary ROM, which is used mainly for boot-up and multicore management. But there's no access to check if it may do something else. >> The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware this is another vulnerability

floatboth 7y ago
The immutable ROM that finds firmware and jumps to it is indeed usually proprietary, but since it's tiny and immutable, it's considered "part of hardware" and is okay even for the FSF "Respects your Freedom" certification. The one mutable/loadable blob the i.MX8 requires is firmware for the DDR4 PHY (not training code you run on the CPU, but something that runs on the PHY apparently??) and they're using an embedded tiny cortex-M4 core to just load it: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurdle/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurd... (IMO, that's a silly requirement from the FSF, I think keeping the main CPU free of blobs that it doesn't run i.e. blobs for other things does not have any meaningful benefits)
- als0 7y ago
  > (IMO, that's a silly requirement from the FSF, I think keeping the main CPU free of blobs that it doesn't run i.e. blobs for other things does not have any meaningful benefits) Depends on how privileged the peripheral or subsystem is. And what data it is trusted with. If it can't harm the main CPU and is properly confined then it's fine in my book.
mkesper 7y ago
>> The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware > this is another vulnerability That's why there's a hardware kill switch on it.

Animats 7y ago

early bird discounted price of $649 And people used to say iPhones were overpriced.

rchaud 7y ago
The response to that has always been, people will pay the Apple premium because to them it's worth it, for the camera, for iMessage, for ease of use, etc. Why can't the same principle apply here, but with respect to user-toggle-able hardware switches and replaceable batteries?
jandrese 7y ago
iPhones are over $1000 now.

bufferoverflow 7y ago

You lost me at the resolution. 720p is ridiculous in 2019. Also 32GB of internal storage is extremely restricting (even with the SD card, apps like to install on the main storage).

RandomBacon 7y ago
> apps like to install on the main storage This isn't Android. It's a computer and any partition you put on a secondary storage device, can be done on this computer that makes phone calls.
swiley 7y ago
I’ve owned laptops running the upstream OS with that much storage, it’s fine as long as you don’t install any really poorly done closed software. Re: “main storage” there’s no reason for that, it’s just more android brokenness.
messo 7y ago
I have put my root folder on a 32GB M.2 in my X220 and that has been more than enough storage for all of the different distros I have run the last 5 years. I expect to replace my current laptop with the Librem 5 as my daily driver. Having a real linux-distro on my phone is a dream come true, especially when I can dock it with my monitor at home and use it as a regular laptop.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  Same here. I've been occasionally hitting 32GB with my / when I let my system grow really messy, but a quick look at big and unused packages was enough to clean it up. For a GNU/Linux system, 32GB is a lot. It would still be nice to have more for added comfort, but it's not like it's a big deal.

brakmic 7y ago

Excellent intentions, but technological garbage.

jdofaz 7y ago

I wouldn't pre-order something like this because I don't yet know if it will be reliable. I see the value in what they are offering but it isn't battle tested yet. I don't want to relive the early smartphone days where the phone crashes when I'm trying to answer a phone call.

sgeisler 7y ago
I think this first model is for enthusiasts who can afford it and want to fund the development. It won't be perfect yet. If you think about it as a donation it makes a lot more sense.

dustfinger 7y ago

Will Librem 5 provide a way to turn off SMT? EDIT It looks like Librem5 has a serial port [1] so you can build PureOS and flash your phone with a custom build. In that case you can configure the kernel and turn off SMT if desired. Nice :-) [1] https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Hardware_Reference.html#usb https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Hardware_Reference.html#us...

dan1234 7y ago
I assuming SMT mean Surface Mount Technology, in this context? It would be nice if people expanded their TLAs once in a while!
- dustfinger 7y ago
  I was referring to Symmetric Multi-Processing kernel support. Since the Librem 5 has a serial port via usb, the kernel can be easily customized to suit an individual's needs. If you mess up you can just flash the last known good. It is hacker friendly :-)
  - dan1234 7y ago
    Ok, wouldn’t that be SMP, rather than SMT?
    - aquabeagle 7y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading
      - dustfinger 7y ago
        That's it! Thanks for correcting me :-)
    - dustfinger 7y ago
      Sorry, it is actually called Simultaneous multithreading (SMT).

shmerl 7y ago

So little RAM?

INTPenis 7y ago

I just found out they didn't use AOSP. Ok so it's based on Linux but isn't anyone worried that they're re-inventing some wheels by not using AOSP? Or is there a licensing issue I'm not aware of? Edit: Sorry but my cynicism stems from backing a lot of open source attempts, including N900 with Maemo, ZTE Blade and Jolla. I ended up giving away two of those and the last is rotting in storage.

RandomBacon 7y ago
My understanding is open-sourcs vs closed-source (the binary driver blobs that other phones require).
- chupasaurus 7y ago
  Exactly this. Also no one could block adding the hardware support into AOSP's HAL, so that option is possible.
swiley 7y ago
No, AOSP reinvented the wheel and gave us a broken mess as an excuse to push us into using google software. There’s nothing the phone really needs that hasn’t already been written, the only reinventing is them writting yet another palm pilot home screen knockoff.

Rooster61 7y ago

One thing that isn't clear to me. The phone clearly supports GPS in terms of hardware, but does it actually do anything with it? It won't have access to Google or Apple navigation, and that is certainly something I use my current phone's GPS for.

bennofs 7y ago
You can use Google maps navigation via a web browser
- Casseres 7y ago
  Does it do turn-by-turn? I currently use Google Maps on my Android phone for its navigation. That's important to me, but another user is saying there are Linux apps that do that already, so for me, that's even better!
  - yepthatsreality 7y ago
    You can but the UI is super hostile: 1. asks if you want to install google maps app 2. link to get it to do turn by turn is a button called "Preview" This was my experience using safari on ios.
seba_dos1 7y ago
PureMaps, Navit, GNOME Maps, Marble, TangoGPS, various OSM web UIs... There's plenty of GNU/Linux apps, some of them providing online and offline turn-by-turn navigation, and some of them even already working well on mobile form factors. The software will surely need some time in order to get polished enough to be used by a total newbie out-of-the-box, but it's not like there's no software for that at all.
- Rooster61 7y ago
  Excellent to hear. Thanks. I was unaware of these applications. GPS navigation is a sticking point for me.
7y ago

Havoc 7y ago

Nice effort, but seems limited to the super privacy conscious. I don't see anyone else making those price/hardware trade-offs.

drngdds 7y ago

I love the idea of a phone that isn't built by Apple or a spyware company, but I'd be worried about software stability and support. GNU/Linux on the desktop has always been flaky for me, and flakiness is not an acceptable characteristic for a phone.

fataliss 7y ago

While I like underdogs and developing a 3 player in the smartphone OS market. That $700 seems like high cost to contribute to R&D.

chupasaurus 7y ago
It's a small (2.5k to 3k) batch and unusual tech specs (i.e. last time completely detached from SoC cellular/wi-fi modems were made in 2012 according to Purism). If there was a demand for 100k batch, it would be cost closer to $350 I believe.
- fataliss 7y ago
  That makes sense. I guess there is always a community of Early adopters with disposable income willing to pay high dollar to play with the phone and contribute to it's development. Guess my idealistic mind wants to shortcut to the part where the phone is in an iPhone hardware/UI polish level with a linux OS solution, at which point I'd be happy to pay top dollar for it!

jnbiche 7y ago

These specs are really impressive. I'm actually in the market for a phone upgrade, and the $700 price is not an objection, given what I'd be supporting. What does concern me is the apparent lack of a verified boot option for the phone. I'm not sure, but it appears there's no trusted boot option to use signed firmware and OS. Android and iPhone have had verified boot for years now. Given Librem's focus on privacy and security, and assuming my understanding of the phone's current capabilities is correct, I'm surprised that Librem wasn't able to come up with some solution, particularly given their innovative approaches to firmware security in laptops. And I jumping to the wrong conclusion? Did they end up implementing a verified boot feature? Last I checked, it wasn't looking very likely. They had pretty much ruled out TPM. Regardless, a big congratulation to librem. They've accomplished a very difficult goal. I'm guessing that if they don't have a verified boot currently, they're working on it for future versions of the phone.

dewyatt 7y ago
Hmm maybe they'll add something later. It does have smartcard support, so that may be one approach.

curioussavage 7y ago

I have wanted this phone for months but right now I kind of wish somebody would do a crowdfunding campaign to get one of the postmarketOS phones to great support. Pick a newer phone and a desktop , either plasma or phosh and do a crowdfunding campaign and just spend all the money on getting things working as perfectly as possible. Buy a bunch of refurbished phones of that model and sell them with the software pre installed. Like purism you could bundle it with a subscription or partner with a company and take a cut.

hajile 7y ago

Can someone tell me why they opted for the imx8m with 4 A53 cores rather than the imx8 which adds 2 A72 cores (3-6x faster) and 2x the GPU performance? A $35 raspberry pi 4 has way more computing power than this phone while being 20x cheaper.

ryukafalz 7y ago
Battery life, probably. Faster isn't always better on a device that has to worry about its power budget. Heat was probably a consideration too. It's all well and good to compare this thing to a Pi 4, but I'm not sure you'd want to hold that Pi under load.

XorNot 7y ago

Not thrilled about that horizontal screen resolution. 720 is a bit too few pixels.

IloveHN84 7y ago

My comment might be controversial, but for 649$, the hardware specs are felt like a smartphone of 2-3 years ago (or even more). They could have invested in a octa-core phone and more RAM or a better rear camera. 13Mpixels cameras are there since the Samsung Galaxy S4, for instance. When the phone will come out, I will be already old. Sure, the final user isn't the typical iOS/Android one, but the lack of fundamental applications and a real app ecosystem should led them thinking of reducing their tag price.

foobar_ 7y ago

Has anyone used rasberry pi as a phone ?

Arbalest 7y ago

Looks like the best option is the EU radio if you're in Australia. However, that won't support Telstra's 3G, which might cut you out of voice calls. If you have the option of provider, go Optus, that will give you most of the 3G and 4G bands they have on the EU Radio. US radio only supports Telstra 3G and Vodafone 4G, and nothing else.

vinay427 7y ago
It's rather unfortunate for those who travel as well. Most mid-tier or high-end smartphones on the market today seem to work fine for LTE and voice calls on nearly every major carrier worldwide.

gradschool 7y ago

It's great to see this project coming to fruition. My main reservation about owning a smartphone has always been the idea of a device that knows everything about me under the control of God knows who. This phone partially addresses that issue, but can anyone here who's knowledgeable about encryption comment on that aspect? Without some form of encrypted storage it would seem like game-over when a well resourced adversary gains physical possession.

ThreeFx 7y ago
That is correct, in that case you need to encrypt either the files you want to be safe, or use full-disk encryption. I have no idea whether Purism will support selective file encryption or FDE out of the box, but it'd be pretty cool if they did. That said, under the hood your phone is basically a Linux device, so doing this yourself might need some basic know-how of Linux administration, but shouldn't be too hard (regarding file encryption, FDE may be trickier).
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  Yeah, FDE is hard, but encfs or ext4-native encryption it easy enough.

codedokode 7y ago

But it is pretty expensive. There are Chinese phones with 4 cores, similar amount of memory and same screen size that are 4 times cheaper. Would not it be better to take any of them and replace the firmware instead of making their own platform?

nsajko 7y ago
Hardware kill switches were designed into the phones.

gpjanik 7y ago

In the "about" (our story) section there's some bs and a picture of a girl with blurred city background, file titled: https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-blurred-background-1239291-1.jpg https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-... I mean... How can people still do this in 2019

CogitoCogito 7y ago
> In the "about" (our story) section there's some bs and a picture of a girl with blurred city background, file titled: > https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-.. https://puri.sm/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beautiful-beauty-.... > I mean... How can people still do this in 2019 What is the main thing you take issue with? The filename? The fact that the picture is not directly related to the project? The fact that the woman in the picture is attractive?

exabrial 7y ago

This is incredible! I can live workout wireless charging for the moment. An ip rating would be important to me though (lightly resistant to rain/dust). I imagine that's incredibly hard to design with replaceable batteries. I'll let the reviewers take a gander at the camera and quality and I might give this a go.

brendyn 7y ago

I saw a demo of the test board on video and the touch interface latency was very high. is it the hardware or the software? has it improved? It was quite frustratingly slow by the looks of it.

thepete2 7y ago
That was a driver issue IIRC and has since been solved. At least here [1] it looks okay to me. Not great, but okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9X53UGdvX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9X53UGdvX8

collyw 7y ago

Whats the software selection going to be like for this phone? I bought an Ubuntu phone, and while the phone was nice enough, the lack of apps made it a bit crap. No Whatsapp (I was happy enough using telegram, but my friends were not). The maps application was web based, so didn't launch unless you had internet connection.

wpdev_63 7y ago

It will be curious to see if these will be vulnerable to electronic device interceptions with the NSA TAO[0]. I'd imagine they are already working on building a replacement PCB to drop in and image. There's alot people including journalists, whistleblowers, high level execs, people being targeted(T.I.'s) etc. would easily pay triple MSRP for a secure phone from government entities. It would be interesting to see if they can do it on a software level anyways. [0]:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa...

WhooisWhoo 7y ago

Not everyone agrees with the privacy marketing of the Librem 5 > The Librem 5 is a phone that is falsely marketed as a secure and private device. This is not true. > The Librem 5 does nothing for privacy. Installing a Linux distro is no more private than just using an ungooglified ROM. The mic kill switch is useless as they don't block access to the sensors so audio can still be gotten. The camera kill switch is also useless as you could just cover the camera with tape. > They also weaken security. They use old hardware which doesn't have many hardware security features such as a hardware backed keystore. > They aren't shipping firmware updates. Now your firmware will be outdated and insecure. > Instead of using Android, they use PureOS which is a massive security decrease as you won't have kernel hardening, SELinux, seccomp filters, verified boot etc. like Android already has. PureOS doesn't even have a proper app sandbox. > https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/cje7vg/dont_use_pureos_or_the_librem_5/?limit=500 https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/cje7vg/dont_use_pu...

8881 7y ago

The key question here is : can the phone be booted from the removable storage card ? Without such final control of your data, you can be pressed to decrypt your internal disk by any repressive acting party - and those are rising steadily. Hence the only save way to give users REAL control of their data, privacy - and safety from torture, repression etc, is a removable storage which holds the OS and user data. Anything less looks like cosmetic pseudo privacy and security.Can Librem boot the OS from the sd card, then ?