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Sony's mini air conditioner can fit in your pocket
- saurik 7y agoThe article did not answer for me "but where does the heat go?" :(. (It has a link to a more complete set of marketing materials which may or may not answer that question, but it is all in Japanese.)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- abdullahkhalids 7y agoNote that there are two settings cool and heat, so presumably its an actual heat pump rather than water cooling or something else. I would guess the device tries to pump hot air up and out through the collar and cold air down into the shirt.
- cynix 7y agoIt appears that the device is only cool to the touch and does not generate any cool air, so it's not an air conditioner per se, more like an electric ice pack. The heat will presumably escape via the air vents at the back.
- KozmoNau7 7y agoAnd of course it puts out additional heat into the room, making it slightly more miserable for everyone else. There is some kind of metaphor in that.
- braythwayt 7y agoLet’s walk together through a typical city neighbourhood street today. As we converse, let’s raise our voices to drown out the hum of air conditioners jutting out from windows or affixed to cement pads beside buildings. Some old stores have doors that once had a transom window overhead. In older times, the transom windows were opened on a warm day, and hot air in the room would rise, and then be blows out of the building through the transom window. Today, we close them windows up, creating a box that superheats in the sun. So we stick air conditioners in the old transom windows, and they blow hot air into the street like jet engines. As we walk past these, we must duck. The hot air will eventually rise, but as it erupts from the air conditioner, turbulence brings the heat down to our level, making a hot day even hotter for those walking past. Air conditioning has always been the proposition that “I’m cooling myself at somebody else’s expense.”
- mrep 7y ago> Air conditioning has always been the proposition that “I’m cooling myself at somebody else’s expense. That's not much of an issue though: "For a 2014 paper, Francisco Salamanca and colleagues at Arizona State University modeled the effects of air conditioning on surface air temps in Phoenix. They found a nighttime increase of about 2°F (and nothing much during the day)" [0]. [0]: https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it-hotter-outside/ https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it...
- braythwayt 7y agoAnd yet, as I walk down the street in an older neighborhood with air conditioners in the transoms, I am hit by blasts of superheated air. I likewise also hear the noise (although in my lifetime air conditioners have gotten quieter, I suspect as a side-effect of air conditioners becoming more efficient). I guess I'm trying to say that the expression "at someone else's expense" not just a question of the surface temperature.
- fulafel 7y agoI often wonder the same about the disposable cooling bags.
- wffurr 7y agoIn those bags, the heat goes into chemical bonding energy via an endothermic reaction. So basically into the bag. Eventually it fully reacts and will warm to the touch like any other object.
- mhb 7y agoThis[1] says it uses Peltier devices. They are not very efficient and, of course, also need to get rid of the heat somehow. I'm skeptical about the utility of this. [1] https://www.slashgear.com/sony-reon-pocket-is-a-crowdfunded-wearable-air-conditioner-and-heater-25585239/ https://www.slashgear.com/sony-reon-pocket-is-a-crowdfunded-...
- anotheryou 7y agoPeltier + fan, you can see it here: https://first-flight.sony.com/images/projects/reonpocket/image03.jpg https://first-flight.sony.com/images/projects/reonpocket/ima... Looks like it blows the heat away? So it's really just a spot-cooler, which would be uncool because a cold spot will fool the body in to thinking of an inflamation I think (so you'll get a stiff neck).
- jaclaz 7y ago>Looks like it blows the heat away? ... and possibly just in the face of the guy/gal behind you (I am thinking of a typically crowded Tokyo metro/station).
- londons_explore 7y agoDoes anyone may tiny compressors? I'm thinking a micromachined scroll compressor could be far more efficient, silent, and perhaps fit in a unit the size of a matchbox and still provide a welcome 25 watts of cooling (from ~5 watts of input power, since the input/output temperature difference is small)
- FiatLuxDave 7y agoIf anyone has an answer to this question, I'm definitely interested in a mini compressor. As in, my credit card is ready and waiting.
- londons_explore 7y agoThe best I can find today is something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911065860.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911065860.html Looks like you could combine that with a butane-propane mix as a refrigerant, and make a decent little 2 watt chiller - although it really depends what the efficiency of that compressor is. I wonder if it would be more efficient than a peltier unit?
- rasz 7y agopeltier + radiator + fan + battery + BT controller, shirt has a pocket directly over lower neck. Its one of those so obviously useless things even a 11 old could come up with it https://www.cbsnews.com/news/this-11-year-old-texas-boy-invented-a-device-to-prevent-hot-car-deaths/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/this-11-year-old-texas-boy-inve...
- spodek 7y ago> The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the sweltering heat. How about we change customs that are historical relics and now just feed global warming with unnecessary air conditioning? Can't one leader in the banking industry. government, or other influential position point out the futility of sustaining that tradition and start a trend to change? I'm sure they can find other ways to show their status that don't require wearing multiple layers of wool even in nearly tropical places like Hong Kong that need expensive, chemically intensive cleaning.
- Maxious 7y agoThe Japanese Government actually has a "Cool Biz" campaign to reduce office air conditioning energy usage by relaxing traditional dress code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Biz_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Biz_campaign
- zygimantasdev 7y agoUgh, in my experience, 28C is way too much to think/code in a productive manner
- GordonS 7y agoWoah, 28C is way too hot, even if I'm naked! For me, 21-22C is comfortable, but anything more than that will have me sweating and affect my productivity. But even if I'm an outlier (I don't think I am?), 28C is surely too hot for most?
- spodek 7y agoWow, someone is doing it. Glad to see. I look forward to this trend continuing and spreading.
- lm28469 7y agoYeah it's baffling. To me it really shows the current belief that "tech will solve everything", even when much simpler alternative can do the trick.
- tessellated 7y ago>The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the sweltering heat. How to get rich using idiots 101. Brought to you by Sony Kickstarter.
- GrumpyNl 7y ago"This device can keep you cool or warm using a smartphone app" Why? A scroll button from high to low will do all you need.
- junipertea 7y agoit's on your back
- jdnenej 7y agoRecently I saw that you can buy a vest that holds an ice pack and uses a pump to circulate ice water around you. I was wondering if this would end up cheaper than air conditioning since you don't have to cool the whole room
- GordonS 7y agoThat sounds like it would be bulky, and I'd be worried about leaks. I also wonder how long such a (presumably) small quantity of water would stay cool for - do you have any more info or links about this?
- aaron695 7y agoSo it obviously won't work, cooling takes a lot of energy, der. (Heated jackets exist, but why not just pay for more down, than a complicated battery) But it doesn't even have an open exhaust so a child should see the issue. Is it even worthy of a takedown on YouTube? https://qz.com/quartzy/1674873/sonys-new-reon-pocket-is-an-in-shirt-air-conditioner/amp/ https://qz.com/quartzy/1674873/sonys-new-reon-pocket-is-an-i...
- squarefoot 7y agoNo way it can work. Peltier cells are relatively inefficient heat pumps, that is, they move heat from say side A to side B, and lose some power into heat, so they need a big heatsink and possibly associated fan on side B to get to interesting low temperatures on side A. That little box shown in the photo will never work unless they give it a way to expel the heat in excess in a way that doesn't affect who is wearing them ("Hey, that thing lowered my underpants temperature by 10 degrees C; too bad it also released 20 degrees C hotter air in my shirt!" - numbers pulled from you-know-where, just to illustrate the point). That inefficiency also creates one more problem: assuming they solve the getting-rid-of-hot-air one, this thing will work as an heater for the room in which it works, because some power is always lost into heat, which will turn in less efficiency for the heat pump since it is now working in a hotter environment. And there's power consumption too: peltier devices of decent size draw amperes, not milliamperes, so a pocket sized device like that one, assuming they can change the laws of physics and solve all other problems, won't offer any benefit for more than maybe a couple hours at half power. My conclusion is that toy is no more than a marketing gimmick that will never work, but (thanks to Sony's name too) as with all non working gimmicks that rely on 1% of correct-but-not-usable-here science and 99% of marketing, it will be cloned and produced in quantities by far east companies to be sold for cheap online, only to be immediately thrown away in some landfill.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jws 7y agoNot saying it works, but it is in the ballpark. An idle human dissipates something like 100 watts. Heat and humidity interfere with your mammalian superpowers and you start having trouble getting rid of your 100 watts. A device which moves a faction of 100 watts can get you out of the horrible parts of the mammal powers (sweating buckets). To compare to CPU cooling, a human is a small CPU in terms of power production. Peltier CPU coolers are not popular because they tend to be less efficient than big air heat exchangers… but… A Peltier CPU cooler is an "instead of" device. A Peltier cooler bolted on to your fanny is an "in addition to" cooling device.
- tmikaeld 7y agoThere's a few of these peltier coolers on the market already [1][2]. The theory is that since we are cooling using direct-skin-contact and utilizing blood-flow to cool the body it is much more efficient than air cooling. [1] https://embrlabs.com https://embrlabs.com [2] https://www.dhamainnovations.com https://www.dhamainnovations.com [3] (DYI) https://www.instructables.com/id/Wrist-Cooling-System https://www.instructables.com/id/Wrist-Cooling-System
- rasz 7y agoFirst two look like marketing scams too, too small to do anything. You need good skin contact AND a way to prevent body from fighting the temp difference by drawing blood away from cold spot, aka Vacuum. https://news.stanford.edu/2012/08/29/cooling-glove-research-082912/ https://news.stanford.edu/2012/08/29/cooling-glove-research-... https://www.rtxcorecontrol.com.au/ https://www.rtxcorecontrol.com.au/ earlier prototype from 2007 https://www.wired.com/2007/05/corecontrol-rtx/ https://www.wired.com/2007/05/corecontrol-rtx/ I remember seeing this one on Discovery TV
- tmikaeld 7y agoThe cooling glove you linked seem to be aimed at cooling at a much more faster speed than just casually cooling off though, they mention Athletes, firefighters and soldiers. Embrlabs spun out of an MIT project called Wristify and have a patented wave-like cooling, which is supposed to prevent the body from going into cold-spot-prevention mode. There's a lot of reviews, including pictures, where the vast majority says it's working as advertised https://embrlabs.com/embr-wave/#yotpo-reviews https://embrlabs.com/embr-wave/#yotpo-reviews but under-powered for some users.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoRegarding the Embr, while I'm not actually insinuating foul play per se, I generally ignore reviews that appear on the manufacturer's own website, for obvious reasons. If anyone has first-hand experience with these devices, I'd love to hear it! There doesn't seem to be a ton of critic coverage, and what there was didn't really go over how well it works in detail. I'd readily buy one if I trusted that it could actually be effective.
- z92 7y agoNote that air conditioners are basically heat pumps. To cool one side it MUST throw the heat on another side. It "moves" the heat. Which is why a pocket air conditioner that blasts off cool air on one side is impossible. It has to have another long duct attached with it to throw the hot air considerably far, so that both hot and cold air doesn't cancel each other out. How this device handles this task is unclear.
- benbristow 7y agoWhy is Sony crowdfunding? Surely they've got the money already being a massive corporation....
- brokenkebab 7y agoI suppose it indicates the project has only advertising goals.
- DanHulton 7y agoYeah, that part infuriated me. I guess Sony - you know that scrappy little company trying to make it in this world - just can't put together the resources to build this world-changing gadget without OUR HELP, you know?
- daniel_reetz 7y agoThe idea is to get market validation before launching new products.
- imglorp 7y agoAnd hip social buzz. Oops, here we are talking about it now.
- benbristow 7y agoCouldn't that be achieved with a 'like' button? I guess put your money where your mouth is...
- Xylakant 7y agoMany people will like a product but not buy it later. This is more like preordering it with no promise that it’s built. Contains a stronger commitment.
- krick 7y agoRight, because Sony doesn't already make almost any imaginable electronic device, many of which were introduced to the market for the first time by Sony. And it's not that good way to check anyway, I might realistically buy the device depending on the price and post-release real-user reviews, but no way I'm gonna fund it for Sony.
- edent 7y ago> The shirts come in a men's small, medium or large. Because women never get hot, right?
- schrodinger 7y agoWomen don’t have the traditional social pressure to wear suits.
- gshdg 7y agoIn professions where a suit is de rigeur (law, banking, consulting, etc.) they sure as hell do.
- pavon 7y agoThe fact that they are targeting this toward suit-wearers makes even more snake oil. This thing will be cooling a small patch on the back of your neck, while dumping far more heat into the air gap between your shirt and suit.
- dade_ 7y agoIt's related, because men are usually wearing suits, women tend to complain it is too cold. In the summer, the A/C is too high and in the winter, the heat is set too low. Generally women were told to put up with it and wear a sweater, now it looks like men just need to just go wear an air conditioner.
- truculent 7y agoThanks, I hate it. Maybe there are better (& more sustainable ways) to adapt to heat? Say, wearing different clothes?
- PorterDuff 7y agoNot everyone spends 24/7 in a conditioned environment. There's a world beyond the keyboard.
- ValentineC 7y agoPhysics concerns aside, this reminds me of [founding Prime Minister of Singapore] Lee Kuan Yew's oft-mentioned quote on air-conditioned underwear [1]: > The humble air conditioner has changed the lives of people in the tropical regions. Before air-con, mental concentration and with it the quality of work deteriorated as the day got hotter and more humid. After lunch, business in many tropical countries stopped until the cooler hours of the late afternoon. > Historically, advanced civilizations have flourished in the cooler climates. Now lifestyles have become comparable to those in temperate zones, and civilization in the tropical zones need no longer lag behind. > The ideal invention would be a light polyester air-conditioned undergarment, enclosed around the neck, wrists and ankles and battery operated. Everyone can then work at his optimum temperature and civilization can spread across all climates. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB915764828134990000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB915764828134990000 (non-paywalled: https://outline.com/d3TYvW https://outline.com/d3TYvW)
- indogooner 7y ago> Historically, advanced civilizations have flourished in the cooler climate I can think of a couple of advanced civilizations which developed in warmer climes immediately (Indus valley and Egyptian). Would like to believe climate contributed much lesser (unless extreme like Tundras) to advancement of civilization vs other factors - easier transport/availability of water/natural resources.
- ianai 7y agoPeople are heat machines. We definitely get more done around an optimal temperature.
- adventured 7y agoInteresting consideration. It's true that the overwhelming share of the most productive economies [1] are not at the extreme in terms of heat. [2] Among the 70 hottest countries, only three make the list in terms of economic output per capita: Qatar, UAE, Singapore. Among the 100 hottest countries, only four make the list (Saudi Arabia is added to the prior group at #71). It's a rather staggering data point. Basically all the best economies are in the coolest half block. Only Singapore exists in the hottest 100, as a non-resource state. The best economies group starts near avg ~15 celsius and on down on the list, with Portugal and Greece. Israel and Australia are outliers at 19c & 21c. In the bottom ~66 coolest, you have this group: US, China, Japan, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Switzerland, Portugal, Greece, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, South Korea, New Zealand, Belgium, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Austria, Ireland, Netherlands, Czech, Slovakia, Slovenia, Iceland, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Russia, Turkey, Chile. Uruguay just missed that list, they're #70 coolest and have a per capita output ($17k) comparable to Latvia, Hungary and Chile. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_yearly_temperature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_y...
- billfruit 7y agoDoes Sony have any experience in designing and selling air conditioners? I've never heard of a Sony air-conditioner product before.
- SwellJoe 7y agoSince it's a peltier device rather than a compressor/blower design, it is more aligned with Sony's historic electronics experience, I think. Then again, Sony has made tons of electromechanical devices over the years, I don't think they'd be unprepared to build a traditional air conditioner, either.
- Havoc 7y ago>Sony is crowdfunding the gadget. Maybe one day Sony will grow big & strong and be able to foot the cost of developing a device. ...oh wait. This whole thing smells like BS
- fortran77 7y ago> The shirts come in a men's small, medium or large. > The target demographic is business people who have to wear suits in the sweltering heat. If these were to sell in the U.S., where far fewer men wear suits, the target demographic would need larger sizes; many overweight people suffer badly in the heat.
- LogicX 7y agoTECs are a pretty awesome tech - I plan to build a cooling pad for my dog in my camper van which water cools the hot side to a radiator mounted under the floor, outside. Modeled on this YouTube video where he makes a freezer: https://youtu.be/RkSR4rTl2GY https://youtu.be/RkSR4rTl2GY