5 ms·

I just come from Mexico (Monterrey) where it was regularly 35+ degrees. And now I'm in Belgium in this heat (40+ today) and it's unimaginable how bad it is here

I just come from Mexico (Monterrey) where it was regularly 35+ degrees. And now I'm in Belgium in this heat (40+ today) and it's unimaginable how bad it is here. Usually in Belgium things turn horrible when it's just 30+ because we have no decent installation to deal with this heat. Almost no places have airco so the best you can hope for is a fan. And that just doesn't help that much. Really hard to concentrate on work in this heat. Plus biking to work (largely uphill) makes me sweat more in a day than usually in a week. Not that pleasant to arrive at work like that either. At least in our home in Mexico there is airco in each room and most places you visit have airco as well. (Though we have the opposite problem in winter. No good heating in our home in Mexico but great heating in Belgium). EDIT: And tomorrow I have to use public transportation. Imagine that, a bus without airco full of people sweating. Just want to rant about this, because for all the promoting they do for public transportation, you'd at least except to not melt.

imesh 7y ago
I don't know how to fix the worlds problems, but I do know that everyone in Europe getting AC isn't going to be the answer to rising temperatures. In tropical places we deal with heat by having open houses that allow breeze. But I don't know that will work in a place with winter. I offer no solutions but increasing energy consumption across Europe isn't one.
- bonzini 7y ago
  Breeze? What is breeze? Air is humid and still until 1 or 2am (last June there was also a heat wave but the nights were nice at least). :-(
- briandear 7y ago
  Why not? Is the solution that everyone boils? We have technology to tame the hot interior of buildings. To many people, it’s like Jehovah’s Witnesses and blood transfusions though — irrational religious opposition to a modern tech that solves a problem. Just suffering through the heat is becoming a martyr for no good reason. It’s hot. Get air conditioning. Build some nuclear plants to make more clean electricity. Problem solved.
  - somethingnot 7y ago
    > Build some nuclear plants to make more clean electricity. Problem solved. It doesn't work that way. Aircons dump unusable waste heat into the environment. On a large enought scale, it creates global warming on it's own. Same with solar panels, they change the albedo of the earth surface, and this will be a huge problem in the future.
    - xyzzyz 7y ago
      > On a large enought scale, it creates global warming on it's own. Any amount of energy we can ever generate from nuclear is trivial compared to the insolation. Average daily insolation on Earth is 6 kWh/m^2. Earth area is 5.1e+14 m^2. This means we get 3e+15 kWh daily from sun, or 1.1e+18 kWh annually. On the other hand, we produce 2e+11 kWh electricity annually. This means that solar insolation is 7 orders of magnitude larger than our electricity production.
      - somethingnot 7y ago
        Which is why I mentioned that it will be a problem in the future, not today. Imagine all of India airconed. And it's also why I mentioned albedo. That will drastically increase the sun insolation effect, today a lot of the suns energy is reflected back into space. This will change, especially with solar panels.
        xyzzyz 7y ago
        No, it won't ever become a problem. 7 orders of magnitude means we get 10 million times more energy from sun than we generate in electricity. Bringing rest of the world energy use to US/Europe standard will at worst result in 100 times more waste heat generation than now (and almost surely much less than that), which is still far cry from 10 million.
        somethingnot 7y ago
        You assume that it's obvious that we can't consume 7 orders of magnitude more energy than now. We already grew our energy consumption 4 orders of magnitude in 300 years. http://bwp.io/blog/2014/thermodynamic-limits-of-human-energy-consumption-imposed-by-the-Earth/ http://bwp.io/blog/2014/thermodynamic-limits-of-human-energy...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- goda90 7y ago
  AC powered by fossil fuels*. AC powered by renewables and nuclear isn't too bad. And heck, it might mean more people staying in their homes, consuming less resources than if they felt the need to go out to escape the heat.
- Insanity 7y ago
  I don't suggest getting AC. It'd be crazy to spend so much money for those 2 weeks it actually gets warm. I don't, however, blame people for wanting AC in places where it's actually warm year-round.
  - bonzini 7y ago
    You can use it in spring too as a heat pump, especially if you don't stay at home during the day so you only need to heat and cool the living room. Really the main issue in Northern Europe is that houses do not even have blinds. In Italy or Greece it's not too common to have AC either, but people live just fine by shutting the blinds during the day.
    - Insanity 7y ago
      Every house I know has blinds in Belgium. Are you perhaps talking more modern like Sweden?
      - bonzini 7y ago
        I've almost always seen indoor blinds, which are useless in keeping heat outside the windows. In Southern Europe blinds are outdoor and keep solar radiation outside the glass, and there are separate curtains inside for privacy when the blinds are open. Compare Antwerpen[0] or Brussels[1] with Milan[2] or Crete[3] or Barcelona[4] [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.219842,4.4006387,3a,75y,64.86h,102.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipP_pc0G_kr1vWXp7ff2QBV0ZKjx-AvY_kJFDxpv!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP_pc0G_kr1vWXp7ff2QBV0ZKjx-AvY_kJFDxpv%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya185.42642-ro-0-fo100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.219842,4.4006387,3a,75y,64.8... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8398344,4.3562283,3a,75y,90.13h,113.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZS1bUdmNbl1JN7FSHm1njjrHwxrELAuNppVs1!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZS1bUdmNbl1JN7FSHm1njjrHwxrELAuNppVs1%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-27.239157-ya125.71511-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8398344,4.3562283,3a,75y,90.... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4558029,9.1837501,3a,75y,29.21h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se33UyZf29M1GZ8sVGEC63Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3De33UyZf29M1GZ8sVGEC63Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D208.03574%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4558029,9.1837501,3a,75y,29.... [3] https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3266049,25.1255372,3a,75y,340.47h,100.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHpK5phtDtNzBe9dgaJ-Q9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3266049,25.1255372,3a,75y,34... [4] https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3880801,2.1358851,3a,75y,256.3h,111.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4HUOZeOD05XhdUq27Xhs7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3880801,2.1358851,3a,75y,256...
- bluedino 7y ago
  Everyone getting AC allowed the southwest US to populate
  - azinman2 7y ago
    Interesting. Can you say more about that? People have lived in hot environments like Arabia for centuries.
  - devchix 7y ago
    99% Invisible made the argument that it also changed the US electoral map. "And the ubiquity of AC has had a serious impact on how and maybe most profoundly where we live. Hot places like Arizona and Florida saw huge influxes of residents. A mass migration to the so-called “Sunbelt” changed the political map, too, as electoral college seats moved with citizens. And since a lot of these new southward migrants were conservative retirees, they voted Republican, forming a key target demographic in Reagan’s election in 1980." https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/
- wjnc 7y ago
  In the Netherlands we are moving from gas powered heating to heat pumps that, with adequate design of the rest of the house (so only for new buildings) can keep a house cool for the fraction of the electricity of AC. It's honestly one of the reasons we are considering buying a new home (which are massively overpriced). I think the climate will only become more extreme.
  - fulafel 7y ago
    Traditional AC is heat pumps, they're the same thing and no efficiency difference.
- tdb7893 7y ago
  I spent some of my life in Hawaii and open breezy houses work great until they don't. The times where it get really hot and there is no breeze it's absolutely miserable. I survived it fine but with how hot and still the summer is where I live in the Midwest I'm glad I have AC now.
briandear 7y ago
This is why I chuckle when Europeans lament Americans and their air conditioning. In Texas, this is called “summer.” I am in Rome right now and it’s pretty hot, but luckily there is air conditioning in most places. The bike-to-work crowd suggests that everywhere should use bikes instead of cars, however, what you experience in Belgium now — imagine that everyday in traditionally hot climate. It can be nice to bike to work in most California cities, but in the midst of a hot summer in hot and humid climates, it’s unnecessarily third-world to do that when we have cars with air conditioning.
- Insanity 7y ago
  Absolutely, biking to work is great in Belgium because the weather is 'okay'. Texas gets pretty warm but you don't notice it that much to be honest. Don't think I've been to a restaurant there that didn't have airco. Likewise my in-laws (San Antonio) have airco at home so it's pretty great. I don't blame anyone for using air conditioning with that climate :)
- Balero 7y ago
  Where I am gets quite hot in the summer (at least for me!). This can be offset by having shower facilities at work. Gets rid of the sweat, and turn it colder to lower your body temperature back to normal.
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Absolutely! Most places I have worked offered showers but it's not always the best experience. (Busy, not comfortable with lenses, ..)
- Izkata 7y ago
  Yeah, not sure why you're downvoted. Hitting 100 F in July is a pretty regular occurrence here, and in the suburb I grew up in (west of Chicago), the average is usually high 80s, not mid 70s as the article says about London.
jacquesm 7y ago
> Almost no places have airco so the best you can hope for is a fan. I am wondering if there is 'windchill' is there also 'windroast'? After all if the body cools down by air streaming along it evaporating the sweat then the evaporation process will speed up but the dry skin will then be exposed to air that is hotter than the skin itself. So if 10 below + windchill can make it feel like -20 below is it possible for 40 + windroast to make it feel like 50?
- lordnacho 7y ago
  There absolutely is. A friend in Arizona has this problem, that cycling down a hill makes you hotter, not cooler. And of course that's why your oven has a fan.
- adventured 7y ago
  My experience in Nevada and Arizona has been that when it's 40/43 or more, the wind doesn't make it any worse in terms of how hot it feels. At least in regards to normal activity. Wind is a bit annoying - disappointing - when it's that hot, you expect the wind to feel cooling and it's not.
- Insanity 7y ago
  Today when biking downhill the warm wind against my eyes was much more annoying / irritating than 'cool wind'. Can't say if it also made me feel warmer, but definitely annoyed my eyes more.
- ignoramous 7y ago
  > windroast I've been roasted by the Loo winds [0] quite regularly. Not a pleasant experience. Also see: Heat Index [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loo_(wind) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loo_(wind) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Up to some absurd temperature (i.e this probably isn't true if you're standing in a bunch of exhaust from a jet engine or a metal casting operation) increased airflow will make sweating more efficient enabling you to shed heat faster than the difference between static and moving air heats you up. Even before air conditioning fans were (and still are) popular in the tropics for this reason. Feel free to go up in your attic or some other 100+deg (freedom degrees, obviously with a box fan if you don't believe me. I assure you it will be more pleasant with the box fan.
ghuddrsew 7y ago
> Really hard to concentrate on work in this heat. This reminds me of Singapore's founding father, Lee Kuan Yew, who said, “Air conditioning was a most important invention for us, perhaps one of the signal inventions of history. It changed the nature of civilization by making development possible in the tropics. Without air conditioning you can work only in the cool early-morning hours or at dusk. The first thing I did upon becoming prime minister was to install air conditioners in buildings where the civil service worked. This was key to public efficiency.” [1] 1. vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew-air-conditioning
LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
Improvise. Add plastig bags to a suit of your choice. Add Ice. Your fridge is now your AC.

imesh 7y ago

I don't know how to fix the worlds problems, but I do know that everyone in Europe getting AC isn't going to be the answer to rising temperatures. In tropical places we deal with heat by having open houses that allow breeze. But I don't know that will work in a place with winter. I offer no solutions but increasing energy consumption across Europe isn't one.

bonzini 7y ago
Breeze? What is breeze? Air is humid and still until 1 or 2am (last June there was also a heat wave but the nights were nice at least). :-(
briandear 7y ago
Why not? Is the solution that everyone boils? We have technology to tame the hot interior of buildings. To many people, it’s like Jehovah’s Witnesses and blood transfusions though — irrational religious opposition to a modern tech that solves a problem. Just suffering through the heat is becoming a martyr for no good reason. It’s hot. Get air conditioning. Build some nuclear plants to make more clean electricity. Problem solved.
- somethingnot 7y ago
  > Build some nuclear plants to make more clean electricity. Problem solved. It doesn't work that way. Aircons dump unusable waste heat into the environment. On a large enought scale, it creates global warming on it's own. Same with solar panels, they change the albedo of the earth surface, and this will be a huge problem in the future.
  - xyzzyz 7y ago
    > On a large enought scale, it creates global warming on it's own. Any amount of energy we can ever generate from nuclear is trivial compared to the insolation. Average daily insolation on Earth is 6 kWh/m^2. Earth area is 5.1e+14 m^2. This means we get 3e+15 kWh daily from sun, or 1.1e+18 kWh annually. On the other hand, we produce 2e+11 kWh electricity annually. This means that solar insolation is 7 orders of magnitude larger than our electricity production.
    - somethingnot 7y ago
      Which is why I mentioned that it will be a problem in the future, not today. Imagine all of India airconed. And it's also why I mentioned albedo. That will drastically increase the sun insolation effect, today a lot of the suns energy is reflected back into space. This will change, especially with solar panels.
      - xyzzyz 7y ago
        No, it won't ever become a problem. 7 orders of magnitude means we get 10 million times more energy from sun than we generate in electricity. Bringing rest of the world energy use to US/Europe standard will at worst result in 100 times more waste heat generation than now (and almost surely much less than that), which is still far cry from 10 million.
        somethingnot 7y ago
        You assume that it's obvious that we can't consume 7 orders of magnitude more energy than now. We already grew our energy consumption 4 orders of magnitude in 300 years. http://bwp.io/blog/2014/thermodynamic-limits-of-human-energy-consumption-imposed-by-the-Earth/ http://bwp.io/blog/2014/thermodynamic-limits-of-human-energy...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
goda90 7y ago
AC powered by fossil fuels*. AC powered by renewables and nuclear isn't too bad. And heck, it might mean more people staying in their homes, consuming less resources than if they felt the need to go out to escape the heat.
Insanity 7y ago
I don't suggest getting AC. It'd be crazy to spend so much money for those 2 weeks it actually gets warm. I don't, however, blame people for wanting AC in places where it's actually warm year-round.
- bonzini 7y ago
  You can use it in spring too as a heat pump, especially if you don't stay at home during the day so you only need to heat and cool the living room. Really the main issue in Northern Europe is that houses do not even have blinds. In Italy or Greece it's not too common to have AC either, but people live just fine by shutting the blinds during the day.
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Every house I know has blinds in Belgium. Are you perhaps talking more modern like Sweden?
    - bonzini 7y ago
      I've almost always seen indoor blinds, which are useless in keeping heat outside the windows. In Southern Europe blinds are outdoor and keep solar radiation outside the glass, and there are separate curtains inside for privacy when the blinds are open. Compare Antwerpen[0] or Brussels[1] with Milan[2] or Crete[3] or Barcelona[4] [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.219842,4.4006387,3a,75y,64.86h,102.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipP_pc0G_kr1vWXp7ff2QBV0ZKjx-AvY_kJFDxpv!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP_pc0G_kr1vWXp7ff2QBV0ZKjx-AvY_kJFDxpv%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya185.42642-ro-0-fo100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.219842,4.4006387,3a,75y,64.8... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8398344,4.3562283,3a,75y,90.13h,113.13t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMZS1bUdmNbl1JN7FSHm1njjrHwxrELAuNppVs1!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMZS1bUdmNbl1JN7FSHm1njjrHwxrELAuNppVs1%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-27.239157-ya125.71511-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8398344,4.3562283,3a,75y,90.... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4558029,9.1837501,3a,75y,29.21h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se33UyZf29M1GZ8sVGEC63Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3De33UyZf29M1GZ8sVGEC63Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D208.03574%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4558029,9.1837501,3a,75y,29.... [3] https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3266049,25.1255372,3a,75y,340.47h,100.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHpK5phtDtNzBe9dgaJ-Q9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3266049,25.1255372,3a,75y,34... [4] https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3880801,2.1358851,3a,75y,256.3h,111.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4HUOZeOD05XhdUq27Xhs7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3880801,2.1358851,3a,75y,256...
bluedino 7y ago
Everyone getting AC allowed the southwest US to populate
- azinman2 7y ago
  Interesting. Can you say more about that? People have lived in hot environments like Arabia for centuries.
- devchix 7y ago
  99% Invisible made the argument that it also changed the US electoral map. "And the ubiquity of AC has had a serious impact on how and maybe most profoundly where we live. Hot places like Arizona and Florida saw huge influxes of residents. A mass migration to the so-called “Sunbelt” changed the political map, too, as electoral college seats moved with citizens. And since a lot of these new southward migrants were conservative retirees, they voted Republican, forming a key target demographic in Reagan’s election in 1980." https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/
wjnc 7y ago
In the Netherlands we are moving from gas powered heating to heat pumps that, with adequate design of the rest of the house (so only for new buildings) can keep a house cool for the fraction of the electricity of AC. It's honestly one of the reasons we are considering buying a new home (which are massively overpriced). I think the climate will only become more extreme.
- fulafel 7y ago
  Traditional AC is heat pumps, they're the same thing and no efficiency difference.
tdb7893 7y ago
I spent some of my life in Hawaii and open breezy houses work great until they don't. The times where it get really hot and there is no breeze it's absolutely miserable. I survived it fine but with how hot and still the summer is where I live in the Midwest I'm glad I have AC now.

briandear 7y ago

This is why I chuckle when Europeans lament Americans and their air conditioning. In Texas, this is called “summer.” I am in Rome right now and it’s pretty hot, but luckily there is air conditioning in most places. The bike-to-work crowd suggests that everywhere should use bikes instead of cars, however, what you experience in Belgium now — imagine that everyday in traditionally hot climate. It can be nice to bike to work in most California cities, but in the midst of a hot summer in hot and humid climates, it’s unnecessarily third-world to do that when we have cars with air conditioning.

Insanity 7y ago
Absolutely, biking to work is great in Belgium because the weather is 'okay'. Texas gets pretty warm but you don't notice it that much to be honest. Don't think I've been to a restaurant there that didn't have airco. Likewise my in-laws (San Antonio) have airco at home so it's pretty great. I don't blame anyone for using air conditioning with that climate :)
Balero 7y ago
Where I am gets quite hot in the summer (at least for me!). This can be offset by having shower facilities at work. Gets rid of the sweat, and turn it colder to lower your body temperature back to normal.
- Insanity 7y ago
  Absolutely! Most places I have worked offered showers but it's not always the best experience. (Busy, not comfortable with lenses, ..)
Izkata 7y ago
Yeah, not sure why you're downvoted. Hitting 100 F in July is a pretty regular occurrence here, and in the suburb I grew up in (west of Chicago), the average is usually high 80s, not mid 70s as the article says about London.

jacquesm 7y ago

> Almost no places have airco so the best you can hope for is a fan. I am wondering if there is 'windchill' is there also 'windroast'? After all if the body cools down by air streaming along it evaporating the sweat then the evaporation process will speed up but the dry skin will then be exposed to air that is hotter than the skin itself. So if 10 below + windchill can make it feel like -20 below is it possible for 40 + windroast to make it feel like 50?

lordnacho 7y ago
There absolutely is. A friend in Arizona has this problem, that cycling down a hill makes you hotter, not cooler. And of course that's why your oven has a fan.
adventured 7y ago
My experience in Nevada and Arizona has been that when it's 40/43 or more, the wind doesn't make it any worse in terms of how hot it feels. At least in regards to normal activity. Wind is a bit annoying - disappointing - when it's that hot, you expect the wind to feel cooling and it's not.
Insanity 7y ago
Today when biking downhill the warm wind against my eyes was much more annoying / irritating than 'cool wind'. Can't say if it also made me feel warmer, but definitely annoyed my eyes more.
ignoramous 7y ago
> windroast I've been roasted by the Loo winds [0] quite regularly. Not a pleasant experience. Also see: Heat Index [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loo_(wind) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loo_(wind) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Up to some absurd temperature (i.e this probably isn't true if you're standing in a bunch of exhaust from a jet engine or a metal casting operation) increased airflow will make sweating more efficient enabling you to shed heat faster than the difference between static and moving air heats you up. Even before air conditioning fans were (and still are) popular in the tropics for this reason. Feel free to go up in your attic or some other 100+deg (freedom degrees, obviously with a box fan if you don't believe me. I assure you it will be more pleasant with the box fan.

ghuddrsew 7y ago

> Really hard to concentrate on work in this heat. This reminds me of Singapore's founding father, Lee Kuan Yew, who said, “Air conditioning was a most important invention for us, perhaps one of the signal inventions of history. It changed the nature of civilization by making development possible in the tropics. Without air conditioning you can work only in the cool early-morning hours or at dusk. The first thing I did upon becoming prime minister was to install air conditioners in buildings where the civil service worked. This was key to public efficiency.” [1] 1. vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew-air-conditioning

LifeLiverTransp 7y ago

Improvise. Add plastig bags to a suit of your choice. Add Ice. Your fridge is now your AC.