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Wouldn't that be easy to discover using the same method the NYT used to find this in the first place [1]? > DoorDash offers a guaranteed minimum for each job.

Wouldn't that be easy to discover using the same method the NYT used to find this in the first place [1]? > DoorDash offers a guaranteed minimum for each job. For my first order, the guarantee was $6.85 and the customer, a woman in Boerum Hill who answered the door in a colorful bathrobe, tipped $3 via the app. But I still received only $6.85. > Here’s how it works: If the woman in the bathrobe had tipped zero, DoorDash would have paid me the whole $6.85. Because she tipped $3, DoorDash kicked in only $3.85. She was saving DoorDash $3, not tipping me. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/nyregion/doordash-ubereats-food-app-delivery-bike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/nyregion/doordash-ubereat...

gringoDan 7y ago
In that case, DoorDash will guarantee $3.85, knowing full well you'll make $6.85 for the order. Edit - I'd expect they'll show something like the below Total pay: $6.85 Guaranteed base pay: $3.85 Tip: $3.00
unreal37 7y ago
But that's OK. They should lower the amount that they offer for a delivery to not include the tip. And then drivers will refuse to work for them and they'll be forced to increase it. Supply and demand.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  No, they shouldn't. If these were actual employees, that would be theft. The only reason it's not is that DoorDash has decided to classify them as "independent contractors", which don't receive the same protections.
  - RHSeeger 7y ago
    It's not theft. It's the exact same way that it works for waiters. From a post elsewhere In a restaurant - The waiter is guaranteed normal minimum wage. - The owner guarantees they will pay a minimum of <whatever waiter minimum wage is; less than normal minimum wage> - The waiter gets tips from patrons, which generally brings them over normal minimum wage - If the waiter's tips do not bring them above minimum wage, then the owner is required to pay them an amount that would bring them up to minimum wage. With DD, it works more or less the same way, with the difference being that the minimums (upper and lower) are per delivery, not per hour. If fact, odds are the DD deliverers are going to be worse off now, because DD isn't going to guarantee them a minimum amount; rather, they'll present "we pay you X + you get the tip which is likely around Y". And if the tip isn't enough, the deliverer winds up making less. Unlike before where they got the minimum.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      Restaurants give you an hourly wage that is less than minimum wage, and if that wage plus tips is still less than minimum wage, they're required to pay you the difference. If your hourly wage + tips is more than minimum wage, restaurants cannot reduce your hourly wage to compensate. My understanding is that DoorDash was doing the opposite: giving you a guaranteed wage and then subtracting the tips from that. It's as if a restaurant were paying you an hourly wage without tips, and then accepting tips on your behalf. If a customer had tipped 100% of the guaranteed pay, do you think the deliverer would have seen any of that tip? Or would it all have counted against the guaranteed pay?
      - RHSeeger 7y ago
        My understanding is that - DD provides a guaranteed wage of $1 per delivery, similar to a restaurtant's "under minimum wage" wage. - DD provides a "you will make at least this much" rate. This is a parallel to normal minimum wage - If the (<tip> + $1) is not at least <this much>, DD covers the difference - If the (<tip> + $1) is more than <this much>, DD pays only (<tip> + $1) The only real differences between that and a restaurant are - The numbers are all per delivery instead of per hour - The sub-minimum wage is $1 instead of whatever it is for wait staff ($2.50 or so?). How these numbers compare depends on how many jobs per hour there are. - The "you will make at least this much" amount varies by the delivery, vs waitstaff where it's a set number for all. If you consider the "you will make at least this much" number to be "if you don't get tipped enough to make this much, we'll make sure to cover the difference for you", it's more clear how it's the same as for wait staff.
      - unreal37 7y ago
        That's not the way DoorDash worked actually. They offered $1 per delivery plus tips, and would increase the wage if the tips didn't meet the expectation. If you tipped the driver $100, the driver would get $101. If you tipped the driver $0, the driver would get $4 - $7 because DD would make up for that.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Contractors also have benefits employees do not, such as only working when they choose to.
SkyBelow 7y ago
> Here’s how it works: If the woman in the bathrobe had tipped zero, DoorDash would have paid me the whole $6.85. Because she tipped $3, DoorDash kicked in only $3.85. She was saving DoorDash $3, not tipping me. But that is tipping. A waiter makes $7.25 an hour. If they receive $2 in tips, the business only has to pay them $5.25 for that hour instead. There is a lower limit (around $2, I forget the exact amount), and tipping over that limit goes to the employee, but any tips under that limit effectively go to the company.
- mullingitover 7y ago
  > A waiter makes $7.25 an hour. If they receive $2 in tips, the business only has to pay them $5.25 for that hour instead. This is false. Only a subset of states allow this corrupt practice, here's a handy list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage#State_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage#State_law
  - bena 7y ago
    He was saying that's how it effectively works, and he's right. The federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2-ish with the caveat that if an employee isn't making on average $7.25 for the pay period when factoring in tips, the employer is legally obligated to make up the difference. So if an employee's tips average out to the difference between tipped minimum wage and regular minimum wage, then all you've done is save the restaurant money. The employee was going to get that amount regardless. It's only when the tipped amount exceeds the difference on average does the employee come out ahead.
  - SkyBelow 7y ago
    I counted only 7 states where it is not true based on the state laws and 1 state where it was not true for large employees. It is generally true in most states in practice, and is how tipping works per federal laws. I should have probably have mentioned I was speaking to the federal law and local/state/city laws can work differently in some areas.
    - 7y ago

gringoDan 7y ago

In that case, DoorDash will guarantee $3.85, knowing full well you'll make $6.85 for the order. Edit - I'd expect they'll show something like the below Total pay: $6.85 Guaranteed base pay: $3.85 Tip: $3.00

unreal37 7y ago

But that's OK. They should lower the amount that they offer for a delivery to not include the tip. And then drivers will refuse to work for them and they'll be forced to increase it. Supply and demand.

jakelazaroff 7y ago
No, they shouldn't. If these were actual employees, that would be theft. The only reason it's not is that DoorDash has decided to classify them as "independent contractors", which don't receive the same protections.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  It's not theft. It's the exact same way that it works for waiters. From a post elsewhere In a restaurant - The waiter is guaranteed normal minimum wage. - The owner guarantees they will pay a minimum of <whatever waiter minimum wage is; less than normal minimum wage> - The waiter gets tips from patrons, which generally brings them over normal minimum wage - If the waiter's tips do not bring them above minimum wage, then the owner is required to pay them an amount that would bring them up to minimum wage. With DD, it works more or less the same way, with the difference being that the minimums (upper and lower) are per delivery, not per hour. If fact, odds are the DD deliverers are going to be worse off now, because DD isn't going to guarantee them a minimum amount; rather, they'll present "we pay you X + you get the tip which is likely around Y". And if the tip isn't enough, the deliverer winds up making less. Unlike before where they got the minimum.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    Restaurants give you an hourly wage that is less than minimum wage, and if that wage plus tips is still less than minimum wage, they're required to pay you the difference. If your hourly wage + tips is more than minimum wage, restaurants cannot reduce your hourly wage to compensate. My understanding is that DoorDash was doing the opposite: giving you a guaranteed wage and then subtracting the tips from that. It's as if a restaurant were paying you an hourly wage without tips, and then accepting tips on your behalf. If a customer had tipped 100% of the guaranteed pay, do you think the deliverer would have seen any of that tip? Or would it all have counted against the guaranteed pay?
    - RHSeeger 7y ago
      My understanding is that - DD provides a guaranteed wage of $1 per delivery, similar to a restaurtant's "under minimum wage" wage. - DD provides a "you will make at least this much" rate. This is a parallel to normal minimum wage - If the (<tip> + $1) is not at least <this much>, DD covers the difference - If the (<tip> + $1) is more than <this much>, DD pays only (<tip> + $1) The only real differences between that and a restaurant are - The numbers are all per delivery instead of per hour - The sub-minimum wage is $1 instead of whatever it is for wait staff ($2.50 or so?). How these numbers compare depends on how many jobs per hour there are. - The "you will make at least this much" amount varies by the delivery, vs waitstaff where it's a set number for all. If you consider the "you will make at least this much" number to be "if you don't get tipped enough to make this much, we'll make sure to cover the difference for you", it's more clear how it's the same as for wait staff.
    - unreal37 7y ago
      That's not the way DoorDash worked actually. They offered $1 per delivery plus tips, and would increase the wage if the tips didn't meet the expectation. If you tipped the driver $100, the driver would get $101. If you tipped the driver $0, the driver would get $4 - $7 because DD would make up for that.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- TylerE 7y ago
  Contractors also have benefits employees do not, such as only working when they choose to.

SkyBelow 7y ago

> Here’s how it works: If the woman in the bathrobe had tipped zero, DoorDash would have paid me the whole $6.85. Because she tipped $3, DoorDash kicked in only $3.85. She was saving DoorDash $3, not tipping me. But that is tipping. A waiter makes $7.25 an hour. If they receive $2 in tips, the business only has to pay them $5.25 for that hour instead. There is a lower limit (around $2, I forget the exact amount), and tipping over that limit goes to the employee, but any tips under that limit effectively go to the company.

mullingitover 7y ago
> A waiter makes $7.25 an hour. If they receive $2 in tips, the business only has to pay them $5.25 for that hour instead. This is false. Only a subset of states allow this corrupt practice, here's a handy list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage#State_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage#State_law
- bena 7y ago
  He was saying that's how it effectively works, and he's right. The federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2-ish with the caveat that if an employee isn't making on average $7.25 for the pay period when factoring in tips, the employer is legally obligated to make up the difference. So if an employee's tips average out to the difference between tipped minimum wage and regular minimum wage, then all you've done is save the restaurant money. The employee was going to get that amount regardless. It's only when the tipped amount exceeds the difference on average does the employee come out ahead.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  I counted only 7 states where it is not true based on the state laws and 1 state where it was not true for large employees. It is generally true in most states in practice, and is how tipping works per federal laws. I should have probably have mentioned I was speaking to the federal law and local/state/city laws can work differently in some areas.
  - 7y ago