7 ms·

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Smal

• samhh 7y ago
  I began working from home and essentially opted out of it. I feel more and more like Larry David in Curb every day.
• patch_collector 7y ago
  Personally, I like to find what people are interested in, and let them talk about that. I tend to learn things that I didn't know before, which is always interesting. For example, yesterday I was sitting by a guy who started talking about watching the British Open. I don't care about golf. At all. Never played, never even watched it on TV. But through chatting with him, I learned that it's technically just 'The Open' (and then we Americans started calling it 'British' to differentiate it from our newer version), that bunkers there tend to be much deeper than in the US (since they're by the ocean, and the strong winds would blow sand out of shallow ones), and a few other things. I found it interesting, even if it's not knowledge I'm likely to use, because he was interested in it. If you try and peel back a layer of what you think is most important, but they don't care about it at all, you won't find anything worth hearing. There's nothing there, because they've probably never bothered to think about it. So find something that they have bothered to think about, and learn what you can about that. You do have to avoid judging others, though. If you decide someone's interest has no worth, then it's going to be a boring conversation. It takes either empathy, so you can see the world through other's eyes and understand why they're interested in it, or just having a view that any learning is worthwhile.
  • salixrosa 7y ago
    > If you try and peel back a layer of what you think is most important, but they don't care about it at all, you won't find anything worth hearing. I came looking for someone who'd already said this. I think you hit the nail on the head. Even the stoners I worked with in food service could have some interesting perspectives on, say, why different video games have such different communities. I mean, yeah, I get it. Kids make me downright uncomfortable, and that alone is often a huge chunk of what people talk about. There are quite simply differences in interests. But then the question is, what are you trying to get out of an interaction? In this context, I'd say, find out what that person's goals / difficulties are. Are they trying to switch to a different department? Are they trying to get their kid into a particular private school? Remodeling their house? I think keeping track of this sort of information, checking back in on how their efforts are going or giving any small useful anecdotes/advice ("Yeah, I really got screwed by that moving company -- I wish I'd packed my TV more carefully,") does way more, I think, thank talking about sports. And the great thing is, even if we were all machines, those would be great things to talk about. I've gained incredibly useful information about home ownership just from listening to my coworkers.
• Roritharr 7y ago
  Start respecting the fact that intellectual development & progress is only one axis on the map that is the human experience. One can find interest, happiness and satisfaction by pursuing passions where scientific knowledge may only be of slight advantage instead of the absolute focus. Being a Musicians, touching the emotions of a whole crowd in a live performance is such a passion. Deeply complex, hugely important, some would say powerful, but science will only be a minor help if at all. If you find other people boring ask yourself why you are too boring to see the ways they aren't. Sure there are people that are ignorant, one-dimensional etc. but speaking from anecdote, i've yet to meet someone that didn't atleast had one experience that was interesting to listen too. Life is too complex to disregard people that easily.
  • elevenoh 7y ago
    >Start respecting the fact that intellectual development & progress is only one axis on the map that is the human experience. Excellent all too overlooked view IMO.
    • chronic7382 7y ago
      >> Start respecting the fact that intellectual development & progress is only one axis on the map that is the human experience. > Excellent all too overlooked view IMO. Intellectual development and logical reasoning serve as the basis for proper personal health, family nucleation, social improvement, and other axes on the human experience map. Without being able to think, how can you improve your health, friend, family, or financial standing? This is why most of America is overweight, poor, and doesn't care for anyone other than themselves (as shown by both democratic and Republican political platforms) -- they simply don't have the intellectual capacity to care.
      • hjanssen 7y ago
        This is only true up to a certain degree. A Phd will almost certainly not help you with your health or your social development. It is true that there is a minimum of basic education needed to find these things worthy of your time, but it's definitly not needed and you are talking about people who never experienced that basic education. I also think the second part of your comment incredibly dismissive, because it asserts that those people will never "be smart enough" to care about this things. You mix up education and intelligence which are not the same thing.
• brankoB 7y ago
  The same way they put up with it when you ramble about the things you find interesting. People have different tastes - you might find exploring the limits of human knowledge interesting, while some might find analyzing their favourite sports teams performance interesting.
• isoprophlex 7y ago
  Don't you envy people that never overthink things? People that enjoy the sensory experience of slobbering on a glass of wine? Playing sports for the sake of it? Try empathy. These are humans too. They have their reasons for living their 'distasteful' lives. I think it's you who's only got one note on their tune, not everyone around you. If, in traffic, everybody is honking at you, do you think all of them are bad drivers, or could it be you?
  • username90 7y ago
    > Try empathy. Empathy sucks, I am pretty sure I would be a lot nicer and outgoing if I were less empathetic. You see people struggle with things all the time but you can't do anything about it. All empathy leads to in those situations is suffering because you feel their emotions. In my opinion people who are outgoing and friendly often have low empathy, they ignore basically everything and just put on their default happy face. It can feel nice, but then you realize that they are super shallow so nothing they say really matters.
    • pimmen 7y ago
      Being very empathetic doesn’t mean that you have to be overly sympathetic. You can understand without feeling someone else’s emotions.
    • InvaderFizz 7y ago
      I'm not religious, but I find the following an incredibly useful quote that becomes easier to accept with age: "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference."
• patch_cable 7y ago
  No matter how we live our lives, we're ultimately limited in how much we will experience by our natural life spans. I see every interaction with someone else as an opportunity to peer into another life. A life I didn't live. A path I didn't take. Even if that path feels to you completely pedestrian, there is still a whole life there that you didn't live. Even if they haven't examined or reflected on their life, you can (with respect, and perhaps best silently to yourself :-) ).
• elevenoh 7y ago
  >all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. Your self-examination hasn't yet led you to realize this ain't 'all you really want'?
• wolco 7y ago
  It sounds like every conversation has to be a learning event for you and the average person isn't interesting enough. You need to learn how to entertain yourself and start seeing more complexity.
• profalseidol 7y ago
  Might be a good idea to find a place with lots of PhD folks. I think I know what you mean since I prefer to talk to friends who are genuinely interested in programming and not just a job. Colleagues who are just here for the job I still talk to them but with other topics which I usually learn from as well - as long as you are willing to listen despite what you may think of them.
  • arethuza 7y ago
    "find a place with lots of PhD folks" Well, academia is full of them and I found it to be the worst place for petty office politics and daft rivalries, as the old saying goes: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law
• brokenmachine 7y ago
  >I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. >Nearly every time I work up the motivation to try to really get to know someone who I think I may have judged too quickly I find religiosity, passive consumerism, an unexamined life, something so distasteful that it takes ages before I can do it again. Unfortunately in my experience that's mostly true. I'm no bastion of social virtue but I try to give most people a chance. Usually I'm disappointed but every now and then I get a nice surprise. I've met some people with unique outlooks on life and sometimes that's really refreshing. I work with a lot of very intelligent people. Most of those are in a different field of expertise than myself, but I find intelligence and a sense of humour really go together.
  • nprateem 7y ago
    > I find intelligence and a sense of humour really go together. I once heard it said that humour is about taking two disparate ideas and relating them together, or taking something common and interpreting it in an unexpected way. Tool-making or invention is similar.
• ethnologica 7y ago
  Thanks for being that open. I agree. Is there a way to get in touch with you? ;)
• gafferongames 7y ago
  Are you a sociopath?
  • world32 7y ago
    Its possible. More likely is that this attitude is a defense mechanism for this person to feel better about their lack of emotional and social intelligence. A stereotypical jock/lad will look down on guys who are not athletic or can't get girls and make fun of the nerd who prefers reading books and contemplating philosophy. A stereotypical nerd (like the commenter here) will look down on guys who only talk about sports and girls and will write posts like this on hacker news about how dull these people are. The reality is that all of these aspects of life are important. Knowledge is important for reasons which will be obvious to most HN readers. But so is sport - all humans need physical exercise, the body and mind do not function well without it. So are attractions to the opposite sex - do I need to explain how new humans come to being? So to say that somebody is dull for wanting to talk about sports or kids is as narrow-minded as it is to say that your dull for wanting to read books.
• arvinsim 7y ago
  No matter who much highly one thinks of one self, there will always be some knowledge, experience or perspective that they lack. That's part of being finite and human. I always view meeting new people as opportunities to think outside of my own worldview. One doesn't have to accept or agree to other viewpoints.
• world32 7y ago
  Consider that you might not be as intelligent as you think you are. I'm sure you are aware that there is more than one kind of intelligence right? Although you might have a PhD and be very knowledgeable in many subjects, you sound like you are severely lacking in many other kinds of intelligence. So maybe you are not so different from the "dull" people you speak so poorly of?
  • squish78 7y ago
    Oh boy. I grew up in a family of PhDs and professors, and was immersed in intellectual academic culture from a young age. I love my family, but most of that culture is a bunch of insufferable twats stroking off their egos. After moving out and skipping college, working service industry and 'blue collar' jobs, I realized that (outside of their narrow specialty) PhDs aren't nearly as smart as they think they are. Your philosophical musings are just mental masturbation.
• mikkelam 7y ago
  Why not just avoid these people altogether? If it makes you more happy to be around PhD's, find a setting where there's a bunch of them.
• teekert 7y ago
  I had a colleague like that, he was diagnosed with Asperger. He genuinely wanted to be interested in others but wasn't... At least until we discussed bitcoin, or Isaac Arthur, or Scifi audio books with interesting concepts, or his body building diet... I think he just had little in common with the family people at work. I told him, most people have something you can learn from them and if not, just be polite and it's ok. I can tell you (and I have a PhD if this helps you accept my answer) that intelligence has very little to do with having a PhD so you are ignoring a lot of interesting, smart people right there. You know, some people that you would consider simpletons are intensely happy due to their attitude in life and I for one am always interested in those people. People with a drive to explore the world or to make their loved ones happy. To me you sound pretty ignorant if you claim that you can peel back a layer on something as complex as a human mind and then claim to find it empty. If you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you will learn the things you never knew you never knew. Though you seem to feel like you know what you don't know. And I'd consider that a somewhat boring attitude, although I'd be interested in how you came to feel that way.
  • dougmwne 7y ago
    I think this is pretty spot and this is a telling quote from GP: >It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. Oh, but there is something there. People are not paper shells, but if you perceive them that way then you reveal your own blindness. Most non-ASD people find the emotional and experiential lives of others to be endlessly fascinating. Talking through a well-worn topic is a chance to see it new again through the other person's eyes and get a new flavor for it as you understand their own experience. So I think my advice to GP would be lose the attitude. Others can smell it from a mile away and will treat you accordingly. Holding such a negative belief about others will make your professional life much more difficult and you will lose opportunities. It might be difficult to perceive these inner emotional lives of the people around you, but what you can't see exists all the same. People, even the ones who seem lazy or stupid at first glance are awe-inspiringly capable. We all run on similar hardware, and so each of us has a few PhDs worth of hidden depths.
    • 7y ago
• gridlockd 7y ago
  > I find almost everyone intensely boring. You're probably projecting. All your hyper-specific interests are intensely boring to ordinary people, so you retaliate by declaring them boring. It maintains your self-image. People aren't boring, they're extremely interesting creatures that can be studied endlessly. Unlike the other great apes, you can even interact with them with human speech! So many possibilities, yet you're sitting here wasting it all. You'd probably counter this by saying that looking at people this way is somehow immoral. I'm not going to argue with that, it's a useless argument to have. > Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. You don't have to feign interest, just let them talk about themselves and stay polite until you get what you want, which is either that the moment of conversation has passed, or something about them (or people in general) that is interesting. Either way, you're not going to be stuck in the conversation forever. Childhood behavior in particular is an interesting topic, as is the decision to have (or not have) children. I know, you're not going to have children, but you have a rationale for that. What's that rationale? It's probably something highly misanthropic, outside the overton window of the ordinary person. Isn't it fun to see people's reaction to that? Well, perhaps not the best thing to do at work, but fun nonetheless. > I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. Really? That's what you want to talk about over a coffee break? Come on... > Nearly every time I work up the motivation to try to really get to know someone who I think I may have judged too quickly I find religiosity, passive consumerism, an unexamined life, something so distasteful that it takes ages before I can do it again. Yeah, maybe don't be such a judgemental person. You clearly haven't examined yourself enough to recognize that this is a ridiculous attitude. You need to realize that this is a defense mechanism of your brain to save your fragile little ego from getting hurt. The flip side is that if you're overly judgemental, you'll be overly judgemental regarding yourself, as you clearly are. > How do people put up with it? Routine.
• boohoojangles 7y ago
  > How do people put up with it? I was a bit like that. Things have happened in my life that made me unable to continue being happy only looking life in one way. Luckily, I developed hobbies and extra activities that allowed me see how many skills are out there that I can develop and learn from people by just watching and having those simple interactions. I still like philosophical debates but I find also amazing that some people can influence other people just with smiles and genuine happiness. Life can be broad too.
• admg 7y ago
  People bond/interact over shared experiences. You mention kids, I used to become extremely bored over listening to other peoples stories about their kids. Now that I'm a father myself I don't listen to the story about their kid with any more interest but I understand that they just want to talk about the trial's they may be going through at any particular point. On passive consumerism, unexamined life... I'd suggest trying to understand who it is you're talking to. Sometimes that will be a fair judgement, othertimes you'll find that people are trying their best to earn for their families, look after others and simply want some luxury to unwind before getting back to whatever takes most of their waking hours. However without knowing who you're talking to thats all speculation. On a practical level, I would suggest you should surround yourself with like minded people. Either work in academia or aim for companies with a higher bar to enter, that should help.
• ismail 7y ago
  1. Realise, that you are judging people on what is important to you, and not them. "No reflection, no relevant context, no mirror provided by an intimate knowledge of history or literature ... just nothing." These are things important to you, and it is perfectly fine to make this choice on who to associate with. Realise it is a choice, and this does not mean other values are less "important" 2. Realise, that it is impossible for each person to have complete knowledge. We are limited in what we can know and do. Therefore knowledge is distributed. If knowledge is distributed, every single person could have some gift to provide the world (and you) based on their own unique circumstance and history. The question then becomes: are you paying attention? and is it relevant? "The use of knowledge in society" written in 1945, makes a compelling case for the distribution of knowledge in society: https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw.html https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw.html
• IvyMike 7y ago
  “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. I mean everybody. All of the people in the whole world, I mean everybody — no matter how dull and boring they are on the outside. Inside them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds... Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands, maybe.” - Neil Gaiman
• 420codebro 7y ago
  Did you ever consider the fact that you may simply be an insufferable asshole?
• kkwteh 7y ago
  I do agree that most people are boring if you don't try and figure out what's interesting about them. Discovering what's interesting about someone is an art. The totality of people you will meet have a much wider variety of experience than you could ever accumulate on your own. When I meet someone new, the first thing I try to find out is what it is they have done that I have not, and then I ask them about that. Often, I learn something new and interesting. In general, people will never realize on their own what you'll find interesting about them, so you have to seek it out actively.
• collyw 7y ago
  If you find everyone else around you, I would suggest that perhaps you are the problem. You really can't find anything in common with someone that you find interesting to talk about?
• koliber 7y ago
  You need to recognize, that just like some people find wine, sports, their kids, or gardening to be an interesting topic of conversation, you find introspection, philosophy, history, and/or literature to be the things that interest you most in discussion. Is there an objective ranking of those topics? Are some of them universally better or worse? Some people think so. This causes them to feel disdain for the others who don't share their topics of interest. Some people are truly awful conversationalists and it is difficult having a flowing conversation with them. I've found that the topic is not the issue. The person's conversation skills are. At times I feel that I am the bad conversationalist, not knowing anything about the finer details of this year's soccer lineup. If I did not try to be interested and engaged in such a conversation, the other person could plausibly find me dull. I get to decide how to proceed and what experience they get to base their judgement on. When I do so, I do sometimes find myself learning a lot about things I knew nothing about, and sometimes pleasantly engaged in a conversation about a topic I would generally consider to be not interesting to me.
• nprateem 7y ago
  You should read Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. Sounds like you could use some.
• codingdave 7y ago
  You can get along with people without liking them. In particular at work, being able to work well and effectively with people you don't like is practically required. And that doesn't mean you have to engage in small talk. Just avoid being actively hostile, and cooperate with them. I'd also recommend trying to respect that people may disagree with you on what is important. It is quite possible for someone to have examined their life as much as you expect, and have decided that they like religion and consumerism and other things that you dislike. People are different. That doesn't make them less valid as human beings. You also may want to think about whether people are hiding their true selves from you. It is clear that you judge people for what they tell you. Did it ever occur to you that you may have a reputation for doing that? People may actively avoid opening up to you because of your own attitudes and behaviors. It may be known that conversations with you become mini-trials of their personal values. There is far more depth to most people than they are willing to show to their co-workers, and if you are known for disrespecting that, people will hide their true selves from you.
  • alexhutcheson 7y ago
    In US business culture, if you don’t engage in small talk you are probably coming across as hostile, or at least aloof. It doesn’t need to be a lot, but you definitely need to at least go through the motions of “Good morning! How are you?”, etc.
• pepper_sauce 7y ago
  Have you considered that people reveal different sides of themselves to varying degrees based on context? Most people have something interesting to say, if they don't share it with you it's either because they're not comfortable with you or not comfortable sharing it in that place. Bob from Accounting isn't going to talk to you about his intricate love of Georgian architecture at the work BBQ.
• wired8 7y ago
  You sound a lot like my father. In social situations he would rather sit in a corner and read his book. To him everyone else is boring, his words, not mine.
• trabant00 7y ago
  First and most importantly: forget the internet and books. And words in general. Find people similar to yourself and observe what works and doesn't work for them. But since we're already here, what I think worked for me (40y old and it's gotten better with age): be yourself. Yep, that old shit. But the why and how is more important. Being 100% sincere with yourself and others will free you of tedious interactions with people who enjoy things you don't. And when you exaggerate in the PhD direction (because trust me, you do) the sincerity will cause feedback loops that will get the interaction to an equilibrium much faster than if any or both parties are pretending.
• ibeckermayer 7y ago
  Where do you live? Do you actively try meeting people with common interests?
• lorepieri 7y ago
  I understand perfectly what you mean. Contrary to other comments, I think that this can be ok, you should spend the majority of your time with folks that you find interesting. Not easy, and indeed I'm working on something to make this simpler. Feel free to reach me for a chat. My Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenzo-pieri-a638b9a6/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenzo-pieri-a638b9a6/
  • pimmen 7y ago
    That is however not what the parent asked about, the question was ”how do I cope?” not ”is this ok?”. Of course it’s ok to feel that way, most of the other comments are about how to cope instead of ”you don’t, give up and go someplace else”. I often feel like talking about esoteric topics like math even though I’m surrounded by people who would gladly kill to never do math ever again. I however want to get along with these people, just like the original poster who wants to progress through people skills. If I was only surrounded by people who value the same things as me this would not be an issue, which is why answers like ”just go where other people are exactly like you” is not productive.
• ozim 7y ago
  But if there is defect anywhere it is not in them, but in your expectations of what they should be able to do or talk about. Real life is intensely boring. It is constant grind for everyone, getting food, cleaning, takes most of their time. I just had to accept it, as it is. Because most people are struggling with getting their life running, not with "boundaries of human knowledge". Then I started accepting my own shortcomings, there is much more daily easy problems to be solved here and now. Then when you reflect on it, calling it all distasteful is just wrong on so many levels, because when you try to chase "boundaries of human knowledge" you fail at basic understanding of fellow humans.
• paulcole 7y ago
  Are you able to recognize that you are intensely boring? That you’re interested in dull pedestrian things? That when you peel back your own layers, there’s nothing there? If not, do that first. You’re no different from everybody else.
• shoes_for_thee 7y ago
  It's less about sharing their interest in those things -- sports, wine, kids -- and more about being interested in the person: "why did you find yourself interested in wine?" "what was it like having kids?" etc. learning to ask very open-ended questions is really helpful here. you don't need to have knowledge of their interests to share in their interests.
  • Jach 7y ago
    This is what peeling back a single layer is. I can only understand and sympathize with the GP's position to some extent, a lot of these "check yourself" replies seem very well put, but it's absolutely the case that there are people who for lack of a better term can be called unthinking. A more insulting turn of phrase might be "NPC". "Why did you find yourself interested in wine?" Not unrealistic answer: "Haha I dunno I just like the flavors, was introduced to it by x." Circle around to the topic again, they'll repeat that, and might not even remember you already talked about it. Trying to decompose "flavors" with them (whether you care or not) is unlikely to bear fruit. Talking about their relationship with X is a logical follow on, of course, and has more fruit-bearing potential. I think one can have interesting conversations with everyone and it's important to converse with a variety of humans (fellow office workers of any profession being a tiny sample) but sometimes you can only hope to go for breadth, not so much depth. It takes the patience and training of a clinical psychologist to get anywhere with some people, and it's not often worth it.
• have_faith 7y ago
  > feigning interest I used to have a similar attitude to yourself. I have a lot of niche interests that most people I come into contact with have little interest in. I learned that having an interest in building relationships with people not built on interests has a vast amount of value that is not immediately obvious if you are emotionally distant, on the autistic spectrum, ADD or something similar. It wasn't until I purposely and thoughtfully corrected for it in day to day life did I appreciate these other kinds of values that I did not find intuitive to value before. If you only feign interest, then you are not getting to know someone as they can tell you are not genuinely interested and they will not peel back any layers for you. The fact that the average person doesn't ponder subjects you consider deep does not make them shallow.
• morphle 7y ago
  I tend to want to teach these people, point them to books and knowledge so they can learn and be less shallow. That is a sure way to piss almost all of them off (unless they become your students), which rarely happens. Alan Kay describes and analyses why the majority of humanity act like you describe in many of his lectures. He answers and explains most of your points. Its hard to recommend these talks, the good bits are spread around 50 lectures. I'll be happy to discuss with you which bits you'll like. A first suggestion is [1][2]. >I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. I love to talk to such people also, so I search for them in the (scientific) crowd and befriend them so we can have those interesting conversations. Please contact me (morphle @ ziggo dot nl) and lets find out if we can have such a meaningful and satisfying exchange. [1] http://esug.org/data/Videos/Alan%20Kay/StateFarm-Kay-2009-10-22b.wmv http://esug.org/data/Videos/Alan%20Kay/StateFarm-Kay-2009-10... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9c7_8Gp7gI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9c7_8Gp7gI
• michaelmior 7y ago
  > I find religiosity I find it interesting that you seem to contrast religiosity with your definition of intelligence. In my experience, the two are not inversely correlated. Disclaimer: I have a PhD in computer science and I am a practicing Christian, so I'm clearly biased here :)
  • VvR-Ox 7y ago
    In my experience intelligent people don't believe in gods. They take responsibility for their own actions, thoughts and speech.
    • michaelmior 7y ago
      The two things are not mutually exclusive. By believing in God, I don't abdicate responsibility for my actions, thoughts and speech. On the contrary, I feel my beliefs give me a stronger responsibility over those things. However, I also believe that I am incapable of anything good of my own accord and only by the work of Jesus Christ within me. Side note: Donald Knuth is also a Christian. You can read some of his musings in "Things a Computer Scientist Rarely Talks About", a sample of which is publicly available. (Unfortunately, I haven't yet devoted the time to read this myself, so I wouldn't consider this an endorsement.) https://www.amazon.com/Things-Computer-Scientist-Rarely-Lecture/dp/157586326X https://www.amazon.com/Things-Computer-Scientist-Rarely-Lect... http://web.stanford.edu/group/cslipublications/cslipublications/pdf/1575863278.pdf http://web.stanford.edu/group/cslipublications/cslipublicati...
• blablablerg 7y ago
  Dude really.. small talk and day-to-day communication is more about connecting than the subject itself.
• 131012 7y ago
  I'll use another angle: If people are paper shells, remember that somebody (in fact, a lot of people) has written on it. Generic human psyche can be rather simple (monkeys with smartphones), but the structures we collectively impose on this material are fascinating. Next time you find someone boring, try to understand what made them this way. And I swear the answers is more complex than "it's capitalism/neoliberalism/consumerism/religion/whateverisyourfavoriteevil, stupid!"
• sametmax 7y ago
  I'll take a wild guess and say it's because your intellect is way more developed than your affect. Nothing wrong with that, but life is easier if you learn to use emotions instead of just living them. It helps with making friends, negotiating, having sex, taking care of your health and overall improves the feeling of well-being. After all, if you perceive the world through mostly logic, it's easy to become cynical or be overwhelmed. Meditation and psychedelics can help learning that if it's something you wish to invest in. Psychoanalysis as well. They all have different time frames, costs and shapes, so it's worth testing all of them. From several sources, given the huge difference in nature and quality of the providers. It's a long process anyway, but 10 years in, I found it worth it for myself.
  • blaser-waffle 7y ago
    > I'll take a wild guess and say it's because your intellect is way more developed than your affect. Interesting. I like that phrase. > Meditation and psychedelics can help learning that if it's something you wish to invest in. Meditation maybe, but I wouldn't recommend psychedelics to someone unless they knew what they were getting into. I knew some folks who had rough trips and were likely NOT BETTER people for the experience -- just DIFFERENT people.
    • sametmax 7y ago
      > From several sources, given the huge difference in nature and quality of the providers. Set and setting is very important.
• bart_spoon 7y ago
  No offense, but I mean this, earnestly: get over yourself. If you talk to a person, and the conversation is dull, they might be a boring person. If most of the people you talk to seem boring, then you are the boring person. You bemoan that you find almost everyone a "paper shell". And yet you are the one who has restricted your opinion of interesting people and topics with a PhD attached to it. You dismiss pursuits that have spanned all of human history like sports, family, food, religion as "pedestrian". That is indicative of an incredibly shallow and one-dimensional person. If you "peel back" the layers of people and frequently find nothing, that doesn't mean their is nothing there, it means you don't have the perception or ability to find it. You say "all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge", and those with "reflection" or "relevant context", and yet you seem to have done little to no reflection, have limited relevant context outside your very limited definition of what is interesting, and have little to no self-awareness. You have constructed a fantasy where everyone else is inferior and uninteresting rather than accept the reality that you are likely a dull, uninteresting person who isn't nearly as intelligent as you believe. I strongly recommend you take a step back, and seriously challenge your current beliefs about your relative intelligence and depth, and ask if the problem is not that others are dull, but rather you are a shallow, uninteresting person without the breadth of interests or life experience to relate to others. Doing so may open up avenues you have closed to yourself previously and help you relate to others more easily.
  • TheArcane 7y ago
    This is the only proper response to OP's throwaway rant. If you find a problem with most people you meet, the problem's probably with you.
    • ak39 7y ago
      Well, there are only two ways to respond to such comments: 1. The inky "proper" way (as you say) 2. Complete and utter lack of words to respond. Is there anything in between? Doubt it.
      • 7y ago
• mixmastamyk 7y ago
  An interesting person once said, "if you're bored, you're boring."
• JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  > How do people put up with it? When I talk to people like this, I hold back. They get the first layer; everyone does. I can sense the attitude and I give them nothing after that. It is quite possible that is why you see nothing. Nobody wants to show you more.
• jccalhoun 7y ago
  I hate kids and I hate talking about sports. I don't know anything about wine. So I let them talk for a bit and then change the subject. I find something that we can talk about that we are both interested in. If all they want to talk about is kids or sports then get better friends.
• ak39 7y ago
  "I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge." Yikes.
• sjg007 7y ago
  You can dive pretty deep into sports: strategy, execution, training, statistics etc... You can dive pretty deep into kids: educational, behavioral, development etc... You can dive pretty deep into wine: flavors, style, type, region, economics, science. You can dive pretty deep into religion, especially if you are interested in the "examined" life. A bunch of philosophers did this, one famous example is Nietzsche. Make it a challenge to find out one interesting thing about every new person you meet.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• phry 7y ago
  You sound like a sociopath.
• kaitai 7y ago
  To find interestingness in others is a skill you can develop. There are things of interest in every topic. Have you ever really tasted wine, with others? tried to figure out the different components? I had a friend tell me a few days ago that grape tannins and oak tannins are felt in different parts of the mouth (tongue vs cheeks); I'll have to check into this. I know for a fact that I taste wine differently than my husband -- we taste sweetness differently and bitterness differently. Why is that? Can it be quantified? What are the dimensions along which you'd want to get subjective ratings if you wanted to map peoples' tastes? We could have a party and taste a bunch of wines and rate them and then do a singular value decomposition to find similarity between different tasters and between different wines; maybe then we could form a hypothesis, especially if we had some chemical data... Listen, if you want to get nerdy, you can make anything nerdy. Kids = child development, Chomsky's hypotheses about syntax, the fact that babies' noses are designed to get squashed in when they fall on their faces and then designed to pop out (if your kid's nose doesn't pop out you can gently pull it into shape). Evolution, the microbiome, whatever. Gardening -> mycorrhizae, the game theory or economics of mycorrhizae, pollinators, seed banking, GMOs, edible plants, what is a weed. And there is so much in recent science that is bearing out what "uneducated" but knowledgeable practitioners have been saying for years. Maybe it would help to consider your "boring people" as practitioners of arts that you have not been educated in. Or you can work backward from their actions and thoughts to uncover the assumptions by which they construct their worldview, and then put it into a larger geopolitical context. Or maybe you're just burned out and tired, and need to recover. Your curiosity antennae are turned off. Good luck.
• EGreg 7y ago
  This is one way: by having an active goal for listening https://www.holstee.com/blogs/reflections/being-interested-is-interesting https://www.holstee.com/blogs/reflections/being-interested-i... Try to explore a person like you’d explore another world. Consider that this person had just as much time as you in the day, and they filled it up with other stuff. Why did they choose to focus on X, what do they find so appealing about X, what nuances or locations do you not know but they have intimately experienced? Adult people, after all, did a lot in their life. Why not get new perspectives? It also seems you don’t do a lot of physical activity, sports, or developing yourself in that way. You may motivate yourself by looking up to people in an area you truly would like to improve in. “We are all idiots, just on different subjects” - who was that?
• ryeguy_24 7y ago
  Sounds like you assign value to people who are pushing on the boundaries of human knowledge and/or have a PhD. That’s fine but many other people have many other ways of valuing people and relationships (for example people who value helping people). My wife doesn’t have a PhD nor has she made any groundbreaking leaps forward in human knowledge but my interest in her and the immense value I place on her in my life is something that cannot be quantified. And separately, there are some amazing PhDs out there but I’ve also met tons of PhD that weren’t anything close to impressive. And conversely, have met some people in my industry that could run intellectual circles around other PhDs (seriously). I think you may get more out of life with a more open mindset. Things may surprise you. That being said, you value what you value, we don’t have to like it or agree with it.
• ddayday 7y ago
  I can relate in a sense but I remind myself often that I should be very grateful that the legacy of the enlightenment period meant there was a greater chance I would live a fulfilling life with a good education. I'm grateful to the people who worked to share knowledge and education through the intervening centuries. I'm grateful those people didn't think of those less fortunate to be paper shells not worthy of their time. If I'm not trying to live up to that standard, at least in how I treat others, or if I'm unable to learn a lesson about peoples potential from that, then I am probably not seeing the bigger picture.
• tdb7893 7y ago
  It sounds like you have a very narrow set of interests and are calling other people boring for not having the same interests. You either need to broaden your interests, which sounds unlikely to me, or just accept the fact that you'll never be that personable and this advice isn't for you. Edit: I find people generally interesting so it's easier for me to find specific people interesting. If you dig a layer deeper and try to figure out why people have that religiosity or consumerism it can be fascinating.
• ryanmercer 7y ago
  >I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell Wow, so wasting years and years of your life studying texts and churning out reworded content about those texts, instead of having life experiences makes someone more interesting to you?
• jpwgarrison 7y ago
  > It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. I'd like you to consider that something in your manner of "peeling back" is causing people to block you out If I get the impression someone has pre-judged me or is generally disagreeable, I don't feed the bear. I just don't care what they think and if looking dumb gets me out of that conversation quickly that is fine by me.
• vectorEQ 7y ago
  getting along with people and linking them or finding them interesting is different things. getting along with people at work generally entails (for everyone) to laugh at jokes you don't find funny, and be ok with behaviours you wouldn't accept from 'friends'. That's life, learning to live with people daily. it's one of the most valuable things you can learn, to get along with people even if you don't like them or have no interest in them. Just remember being nice and helpful doesn't mean you need to be someone's friend. you can be nice and helpful to everyone you meet and still dislike them or find them uninteresting. it's just making life easier / causing less friction daily.
• whiddershins 7y ago
  Hey I’ll respond not using a throwaway. I feel that way too a lot of the time. When I was younger I was incredibly misanthropic in many aspects of my thinking, and hell ... even though I am less so as I age, there’s a certain realistic cynicism about human motivation that I’ve gained access to that means I actually have a worse picture of people than I did 20 years ago. All I can say is, first have some empathy for yourself. Stuff is boring. People kinda suck. That realization is not profound and can’t be just willed away. Second, there may be some aspects of yourself you haven’t developed yet, and if you really engage in developing your own wider potential, you will find commonality with far more people. No one, no matter how smart, is pure intellect. Wishing all your interactions with people would happen on that level is a bad framework for enjoying people and for a rich human life. I can think of any number of people who when I first met them I felt I had nothing in common with them, and really just didn’t like them, who became important figures in my life. Seriously. I think high IQ low IQ or whatever ... any kind of nuerodivergence makes it more of a challenge to relate and empathize with people. It’s possible to find richness in interaction. People are much less boring than you might think, when you learn how to conduct yourself in such a way that they feel safe talking to you frankly about their experience, their dreams, their passions. People can be ridiculously insightful when you least expect it. Your challenge is to make people want to talk to you in a real way. Start by removing the assumption that you are anywhere near as correct or as profound as you quite reasonably think you are. This self picture is an illusion. I don’t care who you are, it is an illusion. I used to think humility and gratitude were just dumb concepts. You need humility. Not to “bring you down to other people’s level” but to enable psychological health and functioning, and ultimately happiness and connection and to become a more complete person.
• Allower 7y ago
  > It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. No reflection, no relevant context, no mirror provided by an intimate knowledge of history or literature ... just nothing. NAILED IT
• kamaal 7y ago
  >>How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Simple. You don't. People like frauds. Even though they fall victims over and over again, they just can't help but like them. You are doing nothing wrong in being what they like you to be.
• mncharity 7y ago
  If anyone is having difficulty empathizing with the parent's perspective, perhaps reflect on how often you've heard people dismiss infants and young children with something like vaguely like "all they do is sleep, eat and poop". They're "not interesting". You "can't have a conversation with them". It's like there's a lack of background knowledge or observational skills or available attention or interest or systems skills or something or something else, to perceive someone's awesome cognitive and emotional life struggle to fruitfully engage with the world, and the associated opportunities to learn from them and maybe help out a bit. Or alternately, perhaps there is some sense in which that "not interesting" reflects a useful metric, and perhaps some folks might then find it useful to apply to one's self? ;) And such application might be mutual, or transient, or topical, or situational, or ... any of the many things that throttle the attention and empathy of people and groups, unavoidably or otherwise.
• jdance 7y ago
  People want to make social stuff work. It doesnt work, its founded on a crazy foundation of playing a role and escaping who we really are. Real passion in PhD like stuff can pierce such roleplay, which is why it is stimulating. There are other things and contexts where this is possible, but in regular society it is rare. Take responsibility for that you have different needs then most people and find these contexts. For me its a couple of close friends, some zen meditation circles, some carefully selected coworkers in my own business, hacker news sometimes. The world really is asleep, mostly :) Nothing wrong with that per se, but yeah its very very boring to converse with, and it has taken me a long time to find a comfortable place in it.
• naasking 7y ago
  > Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. There is overlap between PhD-level conversations and all of these topics. Off the cuff, if someone talks about kids, you can ask about genetics vs. nurture, what sorts of behaviours the parents have seen at what ages/genders, etc. There's a lot of detailed chemistry in wine making and wine pairing. Sports involve complex game theory. Religion has complex social dynamics and interplay with morality and neurology, etc. The point being, if you can't find overlap with your interests in any conversation topic, you either need to work on your imagination, or you need to let go of the preconception that there are boring topics with no common ground, which inherently limits your engagement in a conversation.
• jknoepfler 7y ago
  I think you've completely missed the meaning of the term "unexamined life." Socrates chose death, you've chosen exile.
• pier25 7y ago
  > It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. There has to be something even if it is a primal behavior motivated by survival and reproduction. Anyway, the vast majority of people care about something. Maybe you can sympathize with that if not with their lack of reflection, imagination, and eloquence.
• goostavos 7y ago
  Have you tried hanging out with the people on /r/iamverysmart? During your downtime, I'd also recommend this show called Rick and Morty. It can only truly be enjoyed by someone with a deep grasp of the boundaries of human knowledge on all subjects.
• mikorym 7y ago
  Even a PhD does not mean that I would want to have a conversation with that person.
• pulkitsh1234 7y ago
  I had a similar line of thought, but reading about Introspection Illusion (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion), really opened my eyes. It was not others who were uninteresting but it was me who felt that how others think is somewhat "inferior" (unless they are interested in topics that I like).
• logfromblammo 7y ago
  It's not a good idea to make human empathy your dump stat. Look into a mirror, and imagine that the person in the mirror is a different person. Try to discern how that other person feels about looking at and talking to you. Now imagine that you are the reflection, and that you actually do not exist when the real person is not looking into the mirror. What could you do for your person to keep them looking into your mirror longer, and therefore allow you to exist longer? Once you have mastered that perspective shift, remove the mirror, and instead stand in front of another person. Imagine that you are their reflection, and they are yours. What would it take for the person and person-reflection that you both are together to be happier in that moment? There are no NPCs in real life. Everyone wants to believe that their existence has value, even when all they ever do is useless, dull, pedestrian things all day and all night. Maybe they are that way from lack of intelligence or ability. Maybe they once had hopes and dreams of usefulness that were ground down and rounded off by the endless tides of banality and mediocrity, until everything they once wanted to be, or to do, is now beyond their reach. Maybe they discovered that intellectualism was a false promise, and that those who pursued it became lost in self-delusion, believing themselves to be better and more important than others, when in reality they were all just walking slabs of meat that hadn't died yet, just like everyone else. When someone gazes into the void, they feel that fear--the fear that nothing really matters, that everyone you have ever known or loved or heard about will die, and everything everyone has ever done will be forgotten and lost to entropy. The one thing that salves it for the moment just may be that knowledge that someone out there knows your story, today. If you can submerge your ego, for just a moment, to stand and listen to someone's boring-ass story about some trivial part of their stupid life, without showing on your face or with body language that it is excruciatingly dull, then that person will no longer be empty. You will have put a small reflection of them inside of you, and that might make them happy for a bit. You won't advance the boundaries of human knowledge, but you will make humanity a tiny bit more connected and eusocial. Is that important? No. Not at all. Everyone you have ever known or loved or heard about will die, and everything everyone has ever done will be forgotten and lost to entropy. Billions of people have lived, died, rotted, and disintegrated, with little more left of them now than a damaged strand of DNA in a fragment of a tooth. And so will you. Any illusion you may have that you, or the things you do, are greater or more important than other people is just preventing you from connecting with those you see as lesser. All that crap you cannot stand in other people--their irrational beliefs and practices--may be their attempt to avoid even glancing at the screaming black maw of nihilism, so it doesn't eat away all their sanity and motivation. They might only be doing it because no one cares to know their story, today. And if you wish to be seen as important, isn't that just your desire to put a tiny reflection of yourself in as many other people as possible? I put up with people talking about kids and gods and sportsball and food, not because it is important to me, but because it is apparently important to them. I can stand between them and the void, because I'm not scared of it any more. I can help people pretend that their life has meaning, and I don't need to pretend that mine has more meaning than theirs--because zero equals zero. If you only have to peel back one layer to find the empty, is that better than peeling back two, or five, or ten? Is the value of a person in the number of hollow shells they have around their nothing at all? I personally don't need to be considered important or remembered any more. And that makes me boring, because I generally don't talk about myself, or my niche interests, unless someone asks. Nobody ever asks. So instead, I put on a distracting performance, with the existential black hole of the inevitability of utter annihilation by time and entropy as my backdrop. Get over yourself. You are as individually important as a raindrop in a hurricane. Take the opportunity to dance in the wind before falling back into the ocean. When life itself has no inherent meaning, what you choose to do anyway becomes performance art.
• cnees 7y ago
  Ask not how they can give you a rich experience, but how you can try to give them one.
• brailsafe 7y ago
  Get off your own pedastal and take others off the imaginary pedastal you've put them on. Everyone is a pedestrian. Everyone can only ever be a person with human interests and the same limits of human capabilities. I realized this about others early on, but it takes a real moment of reflection to realize this yourself. Being conceited is not an admirable quality. I've very much been there, I know this, but don't remember what it's like. I do remember, that it's a tool. It's a tool and a copout for understanding the human context that you're in and being vulnerable. In addition, if you haven't found what makes someone interesting or can't conceive of it, you haven't looked past the outermost level. Once I started sitting down with people, setting my ego aside, and listening to what they're interested in, I was way happier and realized that the small world I placed myself in—this artificial bubble of grandeur—was kind of depressing, and pure intellectual pursuits alone aren't enough to live a fullfilling life. You have to find balance. I trade long diatribes about urban development with meandering tales from the theater industry or discover the background I didn't know existed in the colleage that I've been working with. I'll concede that in a vast, vast minority of cases I can't find a thread to go deeper on. It's usually because they've put up a wall for some reason or another, or their current set of pursuits or passions or romances is just pretty vanilla, and that's okay. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but you gotta explore the human connection. If I didn't take this approach, I would have written off everyone in my life, including one specific developer I know who had a very similar attitude. Through time, I found the value in those people and it's super rewarding to me that they remember my name after a year being gone from a relatively new city. We're just people passing through this world, and everyone has something different and interesting about them... if you let your gaurd down.
• shmooth 7y ago
  I love this comment I love it because it feels angry, so at least someone out there is alive I often feel this way but it’s not constant I dig social situations and banter and all that often But If I’m at work I’m often thinking HOW DO WE CRUSH THE COMPETITION MORE AND FASTER FORGET YOUR VACUUM CLEANER’S INABILITY TO PICK UP DUST PROPERLY (and this usually requires that I forget about whatever damage I/my company am/are actually doing in the world) if I happen to be in ‘start my next project’ mode I couldn’t dream of going to an actual social event to talk about anything else because I’d have to get smashed just to temporarily forget about WHAT I WANT TO THINK ABOUT I think part of it is just cultural/economics/etc. Like back in the day a lot of people read or at least thought about things deeply/carefully, and now it’s all ‘professional wrestling’ — tv, propaganda, etc. I really dig smart PhDs while accepting PhDs can be as monstrous as anyone else, just with more power The idea that you could train smart, passionate people to figure something out that could be good for humanity and then set them loose — it’s just awesome.
• Bleiglanz 7y ago
  >>How do people put up with it? Humor, Modesty and Compassion! I am a member of Mensa and read ca. 2000 books in the last 30 years. Sometimes I think just like you, although I know it is wrong (and I would never talk about it). I often meet people who say things like "I find that anyone who isn't a PhD ... might as well be a paper shell." are too shallow and stupid for my taste, and I am one of them. Overconfident, not nearly as clever as they think they are, boring idiots, arrogant. They just think they know, but actually don't know shit about quantum mechanics, general relativity, cohomology, lisp or russian novels and Debussy. Conclusion: Thinking that other people are stupid, shallow and boring is only allowed if you are a genius - and you aren't. Nobody is. A good life has kids, sports, wine, sex and vodka in it :-) I prescribe 25 short stories by Chekov and falling in love immediately.
• tuesday20 7y ago
  While I don’t find people boring, there are certain topics that I’d rather stay away from. For example : In my team of 6, I am the only one who isn’t married and who doesn’t have kids. The other people almost always talk about their kids, show photos, brag about their achievements - after a while, fatigue sets in. Maybe because I can’t relate? I don’t know.
• VvR-Ox 7y ago
  You sound like the typical "science guy" who thinks he is the smartest person on earth because: PhD. Of course all others are "below you" but you know what? THIS is your blind spot (let this be told to you by people who understand humans much better than you ever will). In science I've seen a lot guys who think like this and the most of them struggle hard to organize their own life. If you'd be less arrogant you'd see how interesting and fun live can be and how people you now consider "waste of oxygen" might surprise you again and again with their skills and points of view. I deeply wish that you can overcome this and be happy in your life some day.