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“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get alon

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with someone, you are almost always choosing not to get along with them ... you know exactly what to do to get along with them and just don’t want to do it. - Conversly, not everyone will like you and that’s ok. You aren’t everyone’s cup of tea. Being ok with that is an important mental tool. - To crib from 12 steps or The Four Agreements, nothing is personal. DON’T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY. Even if someone hates you, it’s not YOU per se. It’s their experience of you. It’s not personal. - It may be fair to say that it’s impossible to win an argument. Getting your way by “winning” an argument seems to come with an unacceptable cost attached most of the time. Try getting good at “yes and” style conversations where you run with the other persons point and build upon it creatively, it tends to make conversations more interesting than debating people. Truly, I find compulsive disagreement to be a boring conversational style. - Take personal appearance seriously, and view it as an ongoing project too. So many people fall in to the trap of thinking they can avoid dealing with signaling, which is silly, you always are signaling so best take a look at what you are sending out there. I think it is very psychologically healthy to care for yourself, the act is good for you, and you can change how you present yourself gracefully as you age, which people screw up all the time and it makes them look older, somehow, instead of younger.

cannonedhamster 7y ago
Just getting along with people is pretty reductionist on that idea I agree. It's a fantastic book and I agree with you on every part other than that bit of explanation. I think a better way to phrase it might be to find a way to say things in ways that aren't offensive, which takes a long time to learn, and don't look for a fight when it isn't looking for you. You're not always going to be able to say the same thing to different people and get the same results, this is a lesson that took me a long time to learn. I would say things I didn't find offensive in the slightest, nor did I mean in any way insulting, however others would take it as a personal insult, even if it was just simply the reality of the situation. A way to meet the second part of don't go looking for a fight is to follow advice that's actually a rule here and assume the best possible interpretation of what's being said. I really love this recommendation.
lookathrwaway 7y ago
Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. No reflection, no relevant context, no mirror provided by an intimate knowledge of history or literature ... just nothing. Nearly every time I work up the motivation to try to really get to know someone who I think I may have judged too quickly I find religiosity, passive consumerism, an unexamined life, something so distasteful that it takes ages before I can do it again. How do people put up with it?
- samhh 7y ago
  I began working from home and essentially opted out of it. I feel more and more like Larry David in Curb every day.
- patch_collector 7y ago
  Personally, I like to find what people are interested in, and let them talk about that. I tend to learn things that I didn't know before, which is always interesting. For example, yesterday I was sitting by a guy who started talking about watching the British Open. I don't care about golf. At all. Never played, never even watched it on TV. But through chatting with him, I learned that it's technically just 'The Open' (and then we Americans started calling it 'British' to differentiate it from our newer version), that bunkers there tend to be much deeper than in the US (since they're by the ocean, and the strong winds would blow sand out of shallow ones), and a few other things. I found it interesting, even if it's not knowledge I'm likely to use, because he was interested in it. If you try and peel back a layer of what you think is most important, but they don't care about it at all, you won't find anything worth hearing. There's nothing there, because they've probably never bothered to think about it. So find something that they have bothered to think about, and learn what you can about that. You do have to avoid judging others, though. If you decide someone's interest has no worth, then it's going to be a boring conversation. It takes either empathy, so you can see the world through other's eyes and understand why they're interested in it, or just having a view that any learning is worthwhile.
lostjohnny 7y ago
Or just be yourself, don't give a f* about what people think and don't be an asshole just for the sake of it. Interacting with people is like driving: you have to avoid crashing into others, but sometimes you make a mistake and others will avoid crashing into you. And wear seat belts.
- michalu 7y ago
  That's a good advice unless "being yourself" sucks. "Be yourself" is non-advice. It can be both good and terrible advice depending on many factors. Everyone is complex. There are aspects we're comfortable with and others we are not. So you want to improve the latter and stick with the former as long as they work for you, in a sense they help you achieve what you aim for. Some aspects of yourself aren't really working in some environments so you would just be an idiot to display them while failing to get the results in life you really want to.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    > That's a good advice unless "being yourself" sucks. "Be yourself" is non-advice That's not objective though, "you suck" is entirely subjective, it also depends on context and, in the end, if someone you work with thinks you suck, just talk to them. > Some aspects of yourself aren't really working in some environments So change environment, because sooner or later they will show up. And if you repress them, they will show up amplified.
lelima 7y ago
Totally agreed, what a great book, It has helping me so much! "It may be fair to say that it’s impossible to win an argument." 10/10
trabant00 7y ago
Just my opinion: the content of the book is for a certain type of person with a certain desired direction in life. For another group of people the complete and opposite advice is the "right" way to go about it. Trying to live life by other's people strengths and desires will cause a lot more problems than it will solve.
chriswwweb 7y ago
Wow very nice summary of the main ideas of the book, I totally agree, this book is worth reading... I was reading reading "the making of a manager" by Julie Zhuo earlier this month (which b.t.w. I personally think is a very good book), in her book she mentioned the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie (at first I was a bit scared by the title, to me it sounded like a mind control bullshit boot, but it's actually very interesting, I can't definitely recommend it, because I'm only on page 50 or so). But I think the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a good source to learn or just get remembered about the things you mention in your question, like "dealing with your own emotions" or "improving the quality of the communication with your coworkers / team".
- kthejoker2 7y ago
  Carnegie was a big influence (no pun intended) on Charles Manson. But the book itself is 100% effective; I read my personal Cliffs Notes version of it before meeting clients and it absolutely grounds you in the idea that other people just want to be listened to, respected, and successful.
pacoWebConsult 7y ago
HTWFAIP is a book I have trouble remembering over time. I find that if I don't at least listen to the audiobook yearly I'll find myself slipping back into the shitty habits that made me unhappy enough to pick it up in the first place.
mikorym 7y ago
There is the converse argument that people who behave this way do so "naturally". And it may work well for that set of people. There are also people like Grothendieck who were notorious for insisting on individuality and were the better off for it. You can also be likeable and follow these steps "naturally" in a group that is closer to your affinity whereas in other groups you are the clear outsider. Maybe I just don't like these kind of books?
kiliantics 7y ago
It sounds like Carnegie teaches similar lessons a book I read earlier this year. Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication: a Language of Life" was one of the most important things I've ever read. It's written by a clinical psychologist-turned-peacemaker. He prescribes a simple method for conducting conversations based on principles of empathy and compassion and gives many examples of its successful use in diffusing conflicts from interpersonal relationships to civil wars. The framework is also helpful for internal dialogues and coming to terms with personal issues.
croh 7y ago
Kudos for last point. Analogous to - https://m.signalvnoise.com/habits-always-form/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/habits-always-form/
Smithalicious 7y ago
What really struck me about this book is just how obvious almost everything in it seemed. I guess I found it pretty boring precisely because it's such good advice (since the best ideas usually sound obvious once you hear them).

cannonedhamster 7y ago

Just getting along with people is pretty reductionist on that idea I agree. It's a fantastic book and I agree with you on every part other than that bit of explanation. I think a better way to phrase it might be to find a way to say things in ways that aren't offensive, which takes a long time to learn, and don't look for a fight when it isn't looking for you. You're not always going to be able to say the same thing to different people and get the same results, this is a lesson that took me a long time to learn. I would say things I didn't find offensive in the slightest, nor did I mean in any way insulting, however others would take it as a personal insult, even if it was just simply the reality of the situation. A way to meet the second part of don't go looking for a fight is to follow advice that's actually a rule here and assume the best possible interpretation of what's being said. I really love this recommendation.

lookathrwaway 7y ago

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a mask of civility and charm when needed, but all I really want is to talk to deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge. It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. No reflection, no relevant context, no mirror provided by an intimate knowledge of history or literature ... just nothing. Nearly every time I work up the motivation to try to really get to know someone who I think I may have judged too quickly I find religiosity, passive consumerism, an unexamined life, something so distasteful that it takes ages before I can do it again. How do people put up with it?

samhh 7y ago
I began working from home and essentially opted out of it. I feel more and more like Larry David in Curb every day.
patch_collector 7y ago
Personally, I like to find what people are interested in, and let them talk about that. I tend to learn things that I didn't know before, which is always interesting. For example, yesterday I was sitting by a guy who started talking about watching the British Open. I don't care about golf. At all. Never played, never even watched it on TV. But through chatting with him, I learned that it's technically just 'The Open' (and then we Americans started calling it 'British' to differentiate it from our newer version), that bunkers there tend to be much deeper than in the US (since they're by the ocean, and the strong winds would blow sand out of shallow ones), and a few other things. I found it interesting, even if it's not knowledge I'm likely to use, because he was interested in it. If you try and peel back a layer of what you think is most important, but they don't care about it at all, you won't find anything worth hearing. There's nothing there, because they've probably never bothered to think about it. So find something that they have bothered to think about, and learn what you can about that. You do have to avoid judging others, though. If you decide someone's interest has no worth, then it's going to be a boring conversation. It takes either empathy, so you can see the world through other's eyes and understand why they're interested in it, or just having a view that any learning is worthwhile.

lostjohnny 7y ago

Or just be yourself, don't give a f* about what people think and don't be an asshole just for the sake of it. Interacting with people is like driving: you have to avoid crashing into others, but sometimes you make a mistake and others will avoid crashing into you. And wear seat belts.

michalu 7y ago
That's a good advice unless "being yourself" sucks. "Be yourself" is non-advice. It can be both good and terrible advice depending on many factors. Everyone is complex. There are aspects we're comfortable with and others we are not. So you want to improve the latter and stick with the former as long as they work for you, in a sense they help you achieve what you aim for. Some aspects of yourself aren't really working in some environments so you would just be an idiot to display them while failing to get the results in life you really want to.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  > That's a good advice unless "being yourself" sucks. "Be yourself" is non-advice That's not objective though, "you suck" is entirely subjective, it also depends on context and, in the end, if someone you work with thinks you suck, just talk to them. > Some aspects of yourself aren't really working in some environments So change environment, because sooner or later they will show up. And if you repress them, they will show up amplified.

lelima 7y ago

Totally agreed, what a great book, It has helping me so much! "It may be fair to say that it’s impossible to win an argument." 10/10

trabant00 7y ago

Just my opinion: the content of the book is for a certain type of person with a certain desired direction in life. For another group of people the complete and opposite advice is the "right" way to go about it. Trying to live life by other's people strengths and desires will cause a lot more problems than it will solve.

chriswwweb 7y ago

Wow very nice summary of the main ideas of the book, I totally agree, this book is worth reading... I was reading reading "the making of a manager" by Julie Zhuo earlier this month (which b.t.w. I personally think is a very good book), in her book she mentioned the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie (at first I was a bit scared by the title, to me it sounded like a mind control bullshit boot, but it's actually very interesting, I can't definitely recommend it, because I'm only on page 50 or so). But I think the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a good source to learn or just get remembered about the things you mention in your question, like "dealing with your own emotions" or "improving the quality of the communication with your coworkers / team".

kthejoker2 7y ago
Carnegie was a big influence (no pun intended) on Charles Manson. But the book itself is 100% effective; I read my personal Cliffs Notes version of it before meeting clients and it absolutely grounds you in the idea that other people just want to be listened to, respected, and successful.

pacoWebConsult 7y ago

HTWFAIP is a book I have trouble remembering over time. I find that if I don't at least listen to the audiobook yearly I'll find myself slipping back into the shitty habits that made me unhappy enough to pick it up in the first place.

mikorym 7y ago

There is the converse argument that people who behave this way do so "naturally". And it may work well for that set of people. There are also people like Grothendieck who were notorious for insisting on individuality and were the better off for it. You can also be likeable and follow these steps "naturally" in a group that is closer to your affinity whereas in other groups you are the clear outsider. Maybe I just don't like these kind of books?

kiliantics 7y ago

It sounds like Carnegie teaches similar lessons a book I read earlier this year. Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication: a Language of Life" was one of the most important things I've ever read. It's written by a clinical psychologist-turned-peacemaker. He prescribes a simple method for conducting conversations based on principles of empathy and compassion and gives many examples of its successful use in diffusing conflicts from interpersonal relationships to civil wars. The framework is also helpful for internal dialogues and coming to terms with personal issues.

croh 7y ago

Kudos for last point. Analogous to - https://m.signalvnoise.com/habits-always-form/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/habits-always-form/

Smithalicious 7y ago

What really struck me about this book is just how obvious almost everything in it seemed. I guess I found it pretty boring precisely because it's such good advice (since the best ideas usually sound obvious once you hear them).