9 ms·

Tinfoil hats aside, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the NSA and other intelligence agencies around the world operated VPN service providers as a way to spy o

Tinfoil hats aside, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the NSA and other intelligence agencies around the world operated VPN service providers as a way to spy on users.

swinglock 7y ago
It would surprise me if they didn't.
- harshvladha 7y ago
  and so 97 VPN products may fall under single digit organizations, big one being NSA!
  - luckylion 7y ago
    Now you just need to figure out which one owns which and then chain them cross vendor, and hope that "he's connecting to a chinese spy vpn" doesn't put you on any list ;)
    - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
      Most people on HN are probably on several lists. If I mention "The Anarchist Cookbook" then I imagine every username on this page will be added to a GCHQ list, I'll probably have my internet traffic mined to establish if I downloaded it (which they arrest people for in the UK -- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41802493 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41802493). Presumably they have my online purchase history that relates to reagents, etc.. I also expect to be on lists for being critical of the establishment, doing online web security courses, buying remote connectable electronics, etc.. The difficulty I expect is profiling to reduce those lists to meaningful actions that have indicative value.
      - trollied 7y ago
        Had it on a floppy for my Amiga. Brings back memories. Jolly Rogers cookbook :)
      - kabouseng 7y ago
        I don't believe they'll bother putting you on a list for anarchist cb. So many of the recipes have been modified so that you'll blow yourself up that they'll just let nature run its course... /s
      - rootw0rm 7y ago
        the AC probably doesn't do much. but...as the subject of a joint FBI/NCIS investigation some years ago I can definitely say that at least in the USA they have a long memory...
mtgx 7y ago
Going by their designs in the leaked Snowden documents, you can probably tell which ones are ran by the NSA from the bad website/app UX/UI.
- rootw0rm 7y ago
  hahaha, so true
badrabbit 7y ago
Like they do with Tor nodes?
- cmroanirgo 7y ago
  "Fact-checking the Tor Project's government ties" > The Tor Project, a private non-profit that underpins the dark web and enjoys cult status among privacy activists, is almost 100% funded by the US government. https://surveillancevalley.com/blog/fact-checking-the-tor-projects-government-ties https://surveillancevalley.com/blog/fact-checking-the-tor-pr... https://www.documentcloud.org/public/search/projectid:37206-The-Tor-Files-Transparency-for-the-Dark-Web https://www.documentcloud.org/public/search/projectid:37206-...
  - oil25 7y ago
    The hyperbole is strong in this article. It's no secret nor mystery that the US Government is interested in Tor, but the thesis that it's untrustworthy because it is funded "100%" by them is just ridiculous.
GordonS 7y ago
If the Snowden affair showed anything, it's that the tinfoil hat wearers were right all along - you'd have been ridiculed if you'd suggested just about anything from the Snowden files.
- IshKebab 7y ago
  I still think the NSA employs Linux devs so they can deliberately insert flaws. Why would they not? It would be very easy. But every time I mention it people reply "But but many eyes! They'd get caught!"
  - mwilliaams 7y ago
    I’m sure they make the flaws look like honest mistakes, and whatever gets found by someone else is simply patched with a “bugfix” commit.
  - nickpsecurity 7y ago
    Although possible, they don't have to given how many bugs Linux developers already put in on a regular basis: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Syzbot-and-the-Tale-of-Thousand-Kernel-Bugs-Dmitry-Vyukov-Google.pdf https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/1...
    - IshKebab 7y ago
      That is scary.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    The Wests' military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex has weaponised groupthink to such an extent that the ease by which incitement of mass hysteria at scale can be manifested is a non-issue for these players. Too many times, the western collective is convinced of its own righteousness in regards to issues which factually were counter to its own survival. The point is, even if the NSA did have key Linux devs on its roster, we don't have the tools - as the unwashed masses - to counter it. Besides which, the Linux kernel is hardly the right target - compilers, however, are...
anxman 7y ago
This was confirmed in the Snowden leaks. It said it was a VPN popular in Africa and the Middle East but its name was never made public.

Tinfoil hats aside, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the NSA and other intelligence agencies around the world operated VPN service providers as a way to spy on users.

swinglock 7y ago

It would surprise me if they didn't.

harshvladha 7y ago
and so 97 VPN products may fall under single digit organizations, big one being NSA!
- luckylion 7y ago
  Now you just need to figure out which one owns which and then chain them cross vendor, and hope that "he's connecting to a chinese spy vpn" doesn't put you on any list ;)
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Most people on HN are probably on several lists. If I mention "The Anarchist Cookbook" then I imagine every username on this page will be added to a GCHQ list, I'll probably have my internet traffic mined to establish if I downloaded it (which they arrest people for in the UK -- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41802493 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41802493). Presumably they have my online purchase history that relates to reagents, etc.. I also expect to be on lists for being critical of the establishment, doing online web security courses, buying remote connectable electronics, etc.. The difficulty I expect is profiling to reduce those lists to meaningful actions that have indicative value.
    - trollied 7y ago
      Had it on a floppy for my Amiga. Brings back memories. Jolly Rogers cookbook :)
    - kabouseng 7y ago
      I don't believe they'll bother putting you on a list for anarchist cb. So many of the recipes have been modified so that you'll blow yourself up that they'll just let nature run its course... /s
    - rootw0rm 7y ago
      the AC probably doesn't do much. but...as the subject of a joint FBI/NCIS investigation some years ago I can definitely say that at least in the USA they have a long memory...

mtgx 7y ago

Going by their designs in the leaked Snowden documents, you can probably tell which ones are ran by the NSA from the bad website/app UX/UI.

rootw0rm 7y ago
hahaha, so true

badrabbit 7y ago

Like they do with Tor nodes?

cmroanirgo 7y ago
"Fact-checking the Tor Project's government ties" > The Tor Project, a private non-profit that underpins the dark web and enjoys cult status among privacy activists, is almost 100% funded by the US government. https://surveillancevalley.com/blog/fact-checking-the-tor-projects-government-ties https://surveillancevalley.com/blog/fact-checking-the-tor-pr... https://www.documentcloud.org/public/search/projectid:37206-The-Tor-Files-Transparency-for-the-Dark-Web https://www.documentcloud.org/public/search/projectid:37206-...
- oil25 7y ago
  The hyperbole is strong in this article. It's no secret nor mystery that the US Government is interested in Tor, but the thesis that it's untrustworthy because it is funded "100%" by them is just ridiculous.

GordonS 7y ago

If the Snowden affair showed anything, it's that the tinfoil hat wearers were right all along - you'd have been ridiculed if you'd suggested just about anything from the Snowden files.

IshKebab 7y ago
I still think the NSA employs Linux devs so they can deliberately insert flaws. Why would they not? It would be very easy. But every time I mention it people reply "But but many eyes! They'd get caught!"
- mwilliaams 7y ago
  I’m sure they make the flaws look like honest mistakes, and whatever gets found by someone else is simply patched with a “bugfix” commit.
- nickpsecurity 7y ago
  Although possible, they don't have to given how many bugs Linux developers already put in on a regular basis: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Syzbot-and-the-Tale-of-Thousand-Kernel-Bugs-Dmitry-Vyukov-Google.pdf https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/1...
  - IshKebab 7y ago
    That is scary.
- fit2rule 7y ago
  The Wests' military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex has weaponised groupthink to such an extent that the ease by which incitement of mass hysteria at scale can be manifested is a non-issue for these players. Too many times, the western collective is convinced of its own righteousness in regards to issues which factually were counter to its own survival. The point is, even if the NSA did have key Linux devs on its roster, we don't have the tools - as the unwashed masses - to counter it. Besides which, the Linux kernel is hardly the right target - compilers, however, are...

anxman 7y ago

This was confirmed in the Snowden leaks. It said it was a VPN popular in Africa and the Middle East but its name was never made public.