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> allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend I agree companies should be forced to tell the truth to their customers, but in all cases whe

> allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend I agree companies should be forced to tell the truth to their customers, but in all cases where they're asking for details about the customer service rep? That could go weird places. If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status, we wouldn't insist the company disclose it. We'd probably demand they didn't. Honesty is important, ok, but the customer has no reasonable need to know that. So, ok, it's not as simple as "tell the customer everything." There are some judgment calls the company has to make about what's important to disclose and what is irrelevant. The service rep's race, religion, medical history, or sexual orientation are probably not up for discussion. Why not national origin? This isn't just about fairness to the rep, but the majority of customers need the company to hold this line too. If some portion of the population strongly believes that foreign call centers are lower quality, are you going to get the best possible answers on a survey if you say, "this was a foreign call center, how was the quality?" Disclosing irrelevant details can sabotage collection of unbiased information on call quality. If customers as a whole want improved service quality, they'll want the company to be able to collect unbiased post-call survey results. If call centers in country X are all terrible, unbiased surveys will reveal that. If it's really about training, and there are good and bad call centers in several different countries, unbiased surveys will reveal that too. I know passions run deep on this one, and it's a hard case, but this one seems a little more complicated than the others.

deleted 7y ago
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jimhefferon 7y ago
> If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status This seems very far from the OP's thesis that in our culture there is a normalization of lying by people trying to sell us things.
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
I think it's more "Hello, it's [fake name they can't quite pronounce chosen to be a common UK name] calling you from [company they don't work for but who ordered a phone advertising service], it's lovely weather here in [small UK town they mispronounced badly and where it's terrible weather today], how are you today? ... Great, we are calling about your [account with company you don't have an account with] ..." It's basically all lies, and all unnecessary, trying to win some trust as part of a marketing exercise. Bleurgh.
jellicle 7y ago
Declining to tell someone something is not the same as lying to them. And declining to tell the customer "I am HIV positive" is not the same as declining to tell them impersonal information. You may or may not be aware but there are companies that actively instruct their international call center personnel to tell customers "My name is Sally and I live in Fort Worth Texas, right near you" when none of that is true.
- wysifnwyg 7y ago
  I think this is an important distinction that the parent comment failed to address and which destroys the premise of their entire argument.
SkyBelow 7y ago
>If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status, we wouldn't insist the company disclose it. Because it has no bearing. I think a more interesting question is if they wanted to know health information that would be relevant, such as specific mental abnormalities that would influence a person's ability to lie. Then again, even that question is moot because when you ask someone if they are a liar, the truth tellers and liars both answer no. Current location matters because of laws. If the other individual is in the US, I have a better idea of what recourse I have if my information is misused. And I don't think this can be dismissed outright as contrived and unreasonable, especially in some cases like doing business in China where IP is treated very differently But if we use the excuse of the customer having a right to know the laws that bind whom they are talking to, gender and race become an interesting case as well. In a fair and just world, they shouldn't matter one bit. But given our current world, we know that the legal system is not applied to them equally. Racial and gender disparities in sentences can be off by a factor of 27 (this was a back of the napkin estimate I did some years ago based on sentencing data, and was based on the same crime, so it does not include any disparity in what charges are brought). Does a customer have a right to know that the person they are talking to is privileged when it comes to laws being applied and thus has less disincentive to engage in illegal behavior? >If some portion of the population strongly believes that foreign call centers are lower quality, are you going to get the best possible answers on a survey if you say, "this was a foreign call center, how was the quality?" Self reports are one of the worst forms of data collection, so it is a bit sad that so many companies still depend only among it when rating their employees. More objective metrics have massive problems with being gamed, but at least they are more objective.
dbalbright 7y ago
> If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status What the hell are you talking about?
scarface74 7y ago
The service rep's race, religion, medical history, or sexual orientation are probably not up for discussion. Why not national origin? National origin is different than where the call center is located. A company is under no legal or (in my opinion) moral obligation not to “discriminate” when it comes to choosing which country to locate their call center. I

deleted 7y ago

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jimhefferon 7y ago

> If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status This seems very far from the OP's thesis that in our culture there is a normalization of lying by people trying to sell us things.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

I think it's more "Hello, it's [fake name they can't quite pronounce chosen to be a common UK name] calling you from [company they don't work for but who ordered a phone advertising service], it's lovely weather here in [small UK town they mispronounced badly and where it's terrible weather today], how are you today? ... Great, we are calling about your [account with company you don't have an account with] ..." It's basically all lies, and all unnecessary, trying to win some trust as part of a marketing exercise. Bleurgh.

jellicle 7y ago

Declining to tell someone something is not the same as lying to them. And declining to tell the customer "I am HIV positive" is not the same as declining to tell them impersonal information. You may or may not be aware but there are companies that actively instruct their international call center personnel to tell customers "My name is Sally and I live in Fort Worth Texas, right near you" when none of that is true.

wysifnwyg 7y ago
I think this is an important distinction that the parent comment failed to address and which destroys the premise of their entire argument.

SkyBelow 7y ago

>If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status, we wouldn't insist the company disclose it. Because it has no bearing. I think a more interesting question is if they wanted to know health information that would be relevant, such as specific mental abnormalities that would influence a person's ability to lie. Then again, even that question is moot because when you ask someone if they are a liar, the truth tellers and liars both answer no. Current location matters because of laws. If the other individual is in the US, I have a better idea of what recourse I have if my information is misused. And I don't think this can be dismissed outright as contrived and unreasonable, especially in some cases like doing business in China where IP is treated very differently But if we use the excuse of the customer having a right to know the laws that bind whom they are talking to, gender and race become an interesting case as well. In a fair and just world, they shouldn't matter one bit. But given our current world, we know that the legal system is not applied to them equally. Racial and gender disparities in sentences can be off by a factor of 27 (this was a back of the napkin estimate I did some years ago based on sentencing data, and was based on the same crime, so it does not include any disparity in what charges are brought). Does a customer have a right to know that the person they are talking to is privileged when it comes to laws being applied and thus has less disincentive to engage in illegal behavior? >If some portion of the population strongly believes that foreign call centers are lower quality, are you going to get the best possible answers on a survey if you say, "this was a foreign call center, how was the quality?" Self reports are one of the worst forms of data collection, so it is a bit sad that so many companies still depend only among it when rating their employees. More objective metrics have massive problems with being gamed, but at least they are more objective.

dbalbright 7y ago

> If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status What the hell are you talking about?

scarface74 7y ago

The service rep's race, religion, medical history, or sexual orientation are probably not up for discussion. Why not national origin? National origin is different than where the call center is located. A company is under no legal or (in my opinion) moral obligation not to “discriminate” when it comes to choosing which country to locate their call center. I