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Netherlands National Airline Encourages People Not to Fly
- amelius 7y ago> encouraged customers to invest in the airline’s carbon offsetting scheme Why isn't carbon offsetting enforced by regulations yet?
- junaru 7y ago> pack lightly This is marketing speak for "save us fuel costs" while we will not lower ticket prices.
- edhelas 7y agoIf the goal is about reducing the gaz consumption it's still one good advice. But indeed, I'm not sure they will lower their plane ticket :)
- tluyben2 7y agoThat is the problem with all of this; all the airlines need to sound good but they are not very willing to help. Like why don't they add in the CO2 in the price and make less margin if they want to be so environmentally conscious? They don't want to do that because less profit. KLM did well last year and they are quite expensive anyway on most flights (they are never in the top 5 when I need to fly, inside EU or long haul where I need to go) so they could do that. But they want us to pack lighter, sit in shittier chairs and pay into their CO2 program, while they do not lower prices.
- perfunctory 7y ago> Why isn't carbon offsetting enforced by regulations yet? Because we, the people, didn't demand it yet.
- krageon 7y agoWe elect politicians to make good decisions for us. The onus is not on everyone to make the right decision every time, but rather on their elected leaders to make the right decisions.
- afthonos 7y agoAnd the consequences for making the wrong decisions are…? I’ve been giving this idle thought recently—it feels like what we have worldwide right now is a scaling problem. Forms of government that worked great for small countries are not necessarily adapted to govern countries with tens or hundreds of millions of people. Especially in the era of specialization, there are people who specialize in hacking the government to their advantage. Our only response in modern democracies is—for everyone to make the right decision. Other systems so far are even worse, because they have a single point of failure (the ruler) or at most a few (the central committee, or whathaveyou). I don’t know what defense-in-depth against government capture looks like, but it doesn’t look like anything we have.
- tremon 7y agoAnd the consequences for making the wrong decisions are…? Ultimately, death by famine.
- tinus_hn 7y agoAlthough not impossible, the EU-US Open Skies agreement makes regulation and taxation difficult.
- perfunctory 7y agoI dunno. How did the journalist translate "we invite all air travelers to make responsible decisions about flying" (from the open letter linked in the article) into "Maybe don’t take that flight"? I guess an airline CEO actively discouraging flying would be violating their fiduciary duties.
- icebraining 7y agoAs the article says, the video asks: "Do meetings always have to take place face-to-face? Could you take the train instead?" That seems to be quite clearly promoting not taking a flight.
- perfunctory 7y agoThnx. I watched the video now. But I maintain that a CEO will not do anything to deliberately hurt shareholder value. I believe Freak_NL's comment is correct (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20361619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20361619), they are trying to free up airport capacity from short flights to use it for long haul ones.
- icebraining 7y agoThe journalist never claimed he was deliberately hurting shareholder value...
- tdons 7y agoCall me a cynic, but this is nothing more than an advert for their CO2ZERO programme: https://flyresponsibly.klm.com/en#keypoints?article=WhatYoudo https://flyresponsibly.klm.com/en#keypoints?article=WhatYoud...
- maelito 7y agoYes, but it's a marker that the world is (too slowly) changing.
- tluyben2 7y agoI would take the train, but it's vastly more expensive than flying, almost always. It takes more time, but that's often not a problem; the price is. I mean it's literally 3-10x more expensive to go by train. With the added loss of time, I cannot see many people doing that. Also when you take business flights, and the company paying for it (I am a freelancer so the companies pay me to fly directly) would be not amused if I add on CO2 there. So I have to do that personally to fly for business?
- adwww 7y agoIt doesn't account for the full difference in price, but air travel is still widely unfairly subsidised compared to trains. For example, jet fuel is not taxed for international flights, whereas diesel for international trains (almost the same actual fuel) is taxed. Airports also enjoy very favourable planning and tax treatment.
- systemtest 7y agoThe loss of time is minimal for small distances (< 500km) as you don't have check-in and don't have to travel to the airport first. For longer distance flights: Wake up at 07:00, take the train to the airport at 08:00, take the 10:30 flight from Schiphol to Barcelona and get out of the airport at 15:00. Take a taxi to the city center and arrive at 15:30. Or take the 08:00 train, sit back, relax and get off right in the center of the city at 20:00. You have may lost a couple of hours but you could sit down and read a book the entire time. Luggage is easier. Nobody groping you or giving you troubles about fluids. And good food in the trains too. Ever better: Night trains. Take the 21:00 train. Fall asleep. Wake up at 09:00 having passed two countries.
- systemtest 7y agoKLM is doing good things. For customers in Belgium, you can get a free train ticket from Brussels and Antwerp to Schiphol Airport. That way you don't need a connecting flight. https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/plan_and_book/ticket_information/travel_by_train_or_bus_on_a_klm_ticket/index.htm https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/plan_and_book/ticket_inform...
- punnerud 7y agoSuper simple idea on how transportation should work: https://youtu.be/zpkmGV9a6V0 https://youtu.be/zpkmGV9a6V0 https://youtu.be/GlBOqM99q5g https://youtu.be/GlBOqM99q5g If we could change between cars, buses, trains, boats at speed; do we need plains? No stops and full speed all the way. (Will try to make more complexed models and visualize between boats, buses, trains.. But the main idea is the same)
- ojm 7y agoDon’t think changing between cars, buses, trains or boats at speed will make me stop using plains (sp). But then again, crossing the Pacific or getting anywhere in the world from Australia requires some serious distance, unlike many European flights.
- punnerud 7y agoCrossing the Pacific will probably not work in a long time without one extremely long tunnel. But for a lot of 1-2hour flights and transportation with cars. With highspeed train maybe also 2-6 hour plain flights. Do the math, it can compete on time.
- ant6n 7y agoThe Bering straight is not very wide.
- icebraining 7y agoA decade ago, there was a Chinese proposal for a non-stop bullet train: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Ig19gYP9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Ig19gYP9o I don't think anything came out of that, but it's a cute idea, especially for high-speed stuff.
- maelito 7y agoI look forward to the first airline to offer night train routes.
- Freak_NL 7y agoNitpick: KLM is not the national Dutch airline (although it used to be in the twentieth century). KLM is just one brand of the Air France-KLM multinational (of which the Dutch government does own 14% of the stock).
- jcims 7y agoHow much does the externality of building and maintaining a railway factor into the net carbon emissions and ecological impact of train travel?
- Freak_NL 7y agoThis looks a lot like an attempt at greenwashing by Air France-KLM (of which KLM is one brand) — although anything that ends up decreasing our global footprint is okay with me. What Air France-KLM wants is a reduction in short distance flights in order to remain competitive on long distance ones (which are presumably more profitable). Air France-KLM uses Schiphol Amsterdam Airport as the hub for the majority of their KLM flights, but Schiphol has reached the ceiling in terms of allowed flight movements. The plan was to offload Schiphol's low-cost holiday flights to the newly built Lelystad Airport, which should have been opened by now. However, Lelystad Airport's opening has just been postponed for the third time (and may never open at all), because it will likely exceed legal limits of nitrogen oxide emissions (amongst other issues, not all environmental). Instead, they appear to wish to replace short distance flights with long haul ones (at least at Schiphol).
- swongel 7y agoNot only are they green washing, they're also trying to blame the consumer for using their polluting products by telling them they should fly less. Like they're being responsible, but it's just those pesky consumers who can't behave them selfs. Spare me.
- GhostVII 7y agoBut it is the customers fault, isn't it? There are lots of good reasons to fly somewhere, so I don't think it is unethical to offer flights, the problem is with customers flying unneccesarily. I think the best solution is to have some kind of carbon tax on these flights, so the cost of the pollution from them is accounted for, shaming people into avoiding flying isn't a great solution imo.
- stingraycharles 7y agoWhy can’t they just reduce supply for short distance flights, rather than trying to decrease demand?
- TeeWEE 7y ago
- spodek 7y agoIn my fourth year of not flying, I keep finding the choice to stop flying one of the best of my life. I originally challenged myself to go a year without flying, anticipating on day 366 I'd be on a flight since I love traveling. Also I wondered how long I could put off family and work obligations. But in that year, the things I replaced flying with improved my life more than flying did, so I went for another year. Now I have some lingering sense that I'll fly again, but the interest decreases, particularly as people's claims for the necessity of their flying increasingly sound like justifications for addictions and cravings, beholden to the values of systems they think are universal but aren't.
- iso1337 7y agoWhat did you replace flying with?
- ilogik 7y agowalking...
- ororwhatisit 7y agoOr sucking c1ck. There are miles of c2ck out there. Good for the environment, lots of pr3teine.
- gberger 7y agoWhere do you live, where do your family and friends live, and where do you often travel to?
- modernerd 7y agoWhat did you replace flying with and how has this improved your life?
- alexeiz 7y agoI will listen to them when politicians stop flying.