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In Japan, a growing number of car-sharing users don’t rent cars for driving

183 points by kawera 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
huffmsa 7y ago
This certainly isn't a uniquely Japanese phenomenon, but I feel like it's definitely something I'd expect to hear about from Japan. That touch of unconcerned practicality.
- etatoby 7y ago
  Also, the delicious boxed lunches sold everywhere, combined with the social stigma about eating them anywhere that is not a private space or a space already devoted to eating.
jeffrallen 7y ago
"the street finds its own uses for things" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome
flocial 7y ago
>Operators also lose cash when consumers rent vehicles for “non-driving purposes” since customers pay more if they log a lot of mileage. This quote struck me as strange since the price of gas is included in Times Car Share which is the biggest car share service. https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html
- baq 7y ago
  gas is not the only cost of mileage though.
  - iainmerrick 7y ago
    Right, it also depreciates the car. Mileage is the most important factor in determining sale price.
- LudwigNagasena 7y ago
  This quote struck me a strange since they aren’t losing anything. They just earn extra cash from a new use case.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    ...and potentially lose a more lucrative sale. Hard to quantify, though.
- rerx 7y ago
  It looks like there's a price per kilometer driven when you book a "pack" of hours (going by Google Translate here).
- hawski 7y ago
  In a way for those users it would be better to keep quiet about their use, because now companies will try to find a way to charge them for it.
- laurieg 7y ago
  I love Times Car Sharing and use it heavily, but I find the pricing structure a little bit obtuse: There are various "packs" for example a 6 hour pack, 12 hour pack etc. The 6 hour pack means you don't get charged anything extra for fuel/kilometer. The other packs do charge you a fixed rate per kilometer. There are also special packs at nighttime. The app doesn't really help you pick the best one for you or minimise your price. Here's an example: Book a car from 5.45 to 11.30. You're 15 minutes short of the 6 hour pack so you pay the basic time rate. Now change the booking to 5.45 to 11.45. You now pay the 6 hour rate (4000 yen iirc). Move the booking to 6 to midnight. Now you pay 2000 yen because it's night-time. Overall I love the car sharing experience, it sure as hell beats paying 20,000 yen a month for a car parking space. I just wish they made this a bit clearer/easier to use.
baxtr 7y ago
> One respondent to the company's survey said they rented vehicles to nap in or use for a workspace. Another person stored bags and other personal belongings in the rental car when nearby coin lockers were full.
mft_ 7y ago
Interesting that this solution bubbled up. I've struggled with similar issues before - when travelling, or out in a city, where to do some quiet work, or take a call, or speak to a group of colleagues? I've explored short-term (i.e. hourly) office space rentals, but IME the low headline rates ("from...") become a lot higher when you dig into the specifics and have minimum spends. I'd happily pay $<=20-30 for a convenient small quiet office for an hour, but not $80+. I've also never found a service that offers anything like the low friction that (from the article) unlocking a car remotely would offer. I wonder if this area is ready for some disruption...?
- Slartie 7y ago
  You mean disruption like: "park" a large number of trailers in cities, containing small office rooms, small apartments, hotel rooms, rows of lockers...whatever. Then rent out those and undercut other market participants which actually need to pay for the buildings and properties in which they operate, while you just "park" your relatively-cheap custom trailers in areas where this is free of charge.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    Not that many places near a city you can park a trailer free of charge - and if there were, you can bet this scheme would accelerate charging for them. I suppose the next phase would be electric self-driving vehicles, circulating endlessly on the roads while the occupants sleep or study. That would probably force the city to implement tiered congestion pricing to force them out.
  - treerock 7y ago
    I've seen advertising boards on trailers parked by the side of roads in public parking spaces. Angled to face into the traffic, so probably not parked temporarily.
  - eitland 7y ago
    If they already have the parking capacity and use it for rental cars and then realize people just want to sit in box I don’t see anything particularly bad about buying cheaper, more practical boxes for that purpose instead of buying more expensive impractical boxes?
kurtisc 7y ago
I wonder how the cost compares to a love hotel?
- ironic_ali 7y ago
  Asking for a friend?
  - kurtisc 7y ago
    For a horror screenplay
    - beigeoak 7y ago
      If this is a joke, this is the wittiest comment I have read on this site. If this is not a joke, this is the funniest comment I have read on any site.
- Johnny555 7y ago
  These cars start at around 400 yen for 30 minutes so the love hotel is more expensive, and they typically want to rent for a block of a few hours, but pricing usually works out to around 1000 - 1500 yen ($10 - $15) per hour at a love hotel. Of course, you get a real bed with a love hotel, so it might be worth the extra if all you want to do is sleep, though the walls aren't super soundproof.
jnty 7y ago
This is pretty amusing but highlights the distortions caused by the huge implicit rent subsidy that car parking usually receives. Where else can you hire private space in the centre of a city on an hourly basis for the rates that car sharing companies charge?
- kalleboo 7y ago
  > huge implicit rent subsidy that car parking usually receives I don't think car parking gets a rent subsidy in Japan. They don't have the US-style zoning with required parking spots per square meter, and when you buy a car you have to prove you have a monthly parking spot (which can be quite expensive due to the land cost) > Where else can you hire private space in the centre of a city on an hourly basis for the rates that car sharing companies charge As the article mentions in passing, cybercafes/manga cafes cost around the same as car parking, and you get a private booth, WiFi, sometimes free soft drinks etc. Some have showers and other facilities. http://www.live-matsuya.co.jp/anchor/images/anchor_01.jpg http://www.live-matsuya.co.jp/anchor/images/anchor_01.jpg
  - gwern 7y ago
    > I don't think car parking gets a rent subsidy in Japan. They don't have the US-style zoning with required parking spots per square meter, and when you buy a car you have to prove you have a monthly parking spot (which can be quite expensive due to the land cost) There must be a subsidy here, because these cars are being driven elsewhere (low mileage != no mileage), and the comparison of the car rental cost as being similar to that of the cybercafe implies there is no additional cost of parking. So the parking is free, but it's quite valuable, as demonstrated by their exploitation of it; hence, there's subsidies here somewhere.
    - kalleboo 7y ago
      The largest car-sharing company is run by a chain of parking lots, so you could say that the parking lot business is subsidizing the car-sharing business. Anyway, I just looked up some actual prices for central Tokyo: * Parking, 1 hour: 900 yen * Car sharing, 1 hour: 900-1,800 yen (depending on car class) * Cybercafe, 1 hour: 550 yen So sitting in a car actually costs twice as much as a cybercafe
darkteflon 7y ago
That headline is _awful_.
thrifter 7y ago
and even do facial stretches said to reduce the size of their face Can someone explain this one to me? Is this a weird translation or do people in Japan actually do this?
- lifthrasiir 7y ago
  It is a disposable facial mask [1] used for cosmetics. I don't think it is actually able to reduce the face size though ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_mask https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_mask
- sdrothrock 7y ago
  https://www.byrdie.com/facial-massage-technique https://www.byrdie.com/facial-massage-technique It's this kind of thing. It's literally a facial massage, not a translation issue.
- rangibaby 7y ago
  Korean face massage is a fad in Japan at the moment https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc
Theodores 7y ago
The seats in any car are better engineered and far more comfortable than the typical chair in an office, home, park, bus or train. Never underestimate the value of a comfy seat.
- LeonidasXIV 7y ago
  When we scrapped our old '90ies Opel Astra we kept the passengers seat and made it into a funky-looking but insanely comfy regular chair at home by attaching it with some screws to a simple base made of wood, so it is high enough to sit it. At some point my dad said he's sad we didn't keep the drivers seat as well.
  - Theodores 7y ago
    Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too? I am surprised given the popularity of the show that more people haven't gone for the car-seats-at-home option. You get head rests into the bargain, plus, if you need to re-upholster there are after market seat covers and even those bead things that people had in their cars then. Essentially all these seats go for scrap so you could get the leather seats from a 7-series BMW to have a mega cool sofa at home complete with arm rest and cup-holders. With a few more bits of wood you could make some outer arm-rests. Heated/cooled seats could be nice too. Maybe there is a 1990's sweet spot where the electronics aren't present so adjustment can be done with mechanical controls, as per your Astra option. A Transit Van could have particularly good pickings with the right vintage.
    - LeonidasXIV 7y ago
      > Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too? Nah, I haven't watched any Top Gear. But the seat was just always so comfy in a way none of the seats in the never cars I've been in was. I think it is due to how the seat envelopes you, in a way reminiscent of race cars (which the Astra was not, by any stretch of imagination). I think heated seats could be possible as well, I assume the required electronics and the protocols they speak for regulation should be rather simple. But given the seat is at home there is not that much need to heat it up :)
kristopolous 7y ago
I ran a very affordable car share platform for years. One gentleman used it at night to study in. We suspected his claims of it being a comfortable place to get work done didn't fit with renting it from say midnight to 5 but upon an "investigation" we saw books and papers on the dash, the dome lights on, you know, deep study. Still think it's kinda strange... He was middle aged and married. My theory was he had a snoring wife at home and was taking night school or something. There was another gentleman who would book the cars at night and also go nowhere for hours. Upon investigating him he was listening to fiction books on tape... Relaxing with the seat back and enjoying the novel. Rented around the same time almost every evening.
- Blahah 7y ago
  I don't think it's strange. I often prefer to work or study in the car compared to using busy (library) or expensive (cafe/coworking space) alternatives. Home is reserved for relaxation and family, and I learned when I used to commute a long way by car that it serves as a mobile private and separate space that's perfect for self improvement and learning.
  - aiisjustanif 7y ago
    It wasn't uncomfortable to study in? No table or useful space to put things on to read or write, imo.
    - Blahah 7y ago
      No, I use software, digital reading and audio to study. I don't need a surface or to handwrite. Served me well through undergrad, PhD and 7+ languages :).
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - Brakenshire 7y ago
      I wonder whether there are any cars that can fit a good desk in the passenger seat. You’d have thought it’d be useful for a lot of people.
Zanni 7y ago
I do something like this with my own car (not a rental). I live in a very hot climate and don't have AC, so my home office is essentially useless in the summer. Recently I bought a Tesla Model 3, and I'll just take my laptop out to the car, sit in the passenger seat and select "Keep climate on" from my phone. I never felt comfortable doing this with an ICE car due to engine vibration, noise and stink. Sometimes I break up my work day by going to Starbucks and working there, but if I can't find a seat, I can just bring my drink back to my car. It's not ideal--there's no table--but it's not bad.
- zj45499 7y ago
  > https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fid%3D20359901%2320361247* https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fi... What's wrong with purchasing an AC at home?
  - loxs 7y ago
    Probably rental home. I have also been in this situation where my landlord wasn't in the moods of having to deal with AC installation, so he didn't approve it. I can imagine doing the same if I had a Tesla 3 back then.
    - magduf 7y ago
      If you're in the US, you don't need to worry about landlords to install AC; as long as the room has a window, you just buy a window AC unit and stick it in.
      - cr0sh 7y ago
        Or get a portable unit and vent the exhaust out a window or door (or if nfg, into the attic/plenum space). Portables tend to be more expensive, and you usually have a water tank to dump occasionally (condensate), but they are easier to set up, and to store during cooler periods.
      - zrobotics 7y ago
matthewfelgate 7y ago
Welcome to the future. The future of cars is they will be more like rooms than cars.
- etatoby 7y ago
  Not futuristic enough. The future of rooms is they will be more like cars than rooms.
benj111 7y ago
I wonder how long it will take for 'cars' to appear that are technically roadworthy but have a better layout for this kind of thing, or maybe a double decker could be converted for the purpose.
- lostphilosopher 7y ago
  https://www.pinterest.com/philippinesdoug/mobile-van-office-ideas/ https://www.pinterest.com/philippinesdoug/mobile-van-office-...
- skohan 7y ago
  This reminds me - I remember hearing that the whole reason trailer parks exist is because in some places the laws for vehicle financing were vastly different than home financing. As a result, banks had an incentive to lend to vehicle buyers with income/credit ratings they could not approve home loans for. Someone figured out they could open up an entirely new market by slapping wheels on tiny homes and calling them vehicles, even if no one would ever intend to move them anywhere. The whole thing is predatory, but it's an interesting case study in perverse incentives.
VBprogrammer 7y ago
Anyone else hate car sharing services? Honestly I just found the experience increadibly stressful. Before I go anywhere, is every little scratch and dent listed in the little handbook? If I clip something in a carpark (like a bollard or tall curb) I've got to spend 30 minutes on the phone explaining it to the person on the other end then pay some hard to determine fee. On my way back to the spot if I get caught in traffic there is another fine for being late. That's before we get into the difficulty of how you'd do it with a small child with a pram and car seat etc.
- khalilravanna 7y ago
  Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option to rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper. The policy would be like “Cosmetic damage ok. As long as there’s no functional damage, you’re good.” I personally don’t give a flying f—— if my rental car looks like a junkyard lot special, as long as it drives me safely to my destination. Plus it saves me stress if some dbag dings my rental in a parking lot. I guess maybe the counter argument for this (other than rental companies fighting it because I’m sure they shadily draw in some revenue from gauging people on fees for cosmetic damage) is it might be harder to catch functional damage if you stop checking for cosmetic damage. Though, I’m not so sure that’s true.
  - OrangeMango 7y ago
    > Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option to rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper. Here you go https://www.rentawreck.com/ https://www.rentawreck.com/
  - dwild 7y ago
    The car sharing service I use here in Quebec, does have a "Cosmetic damage ok. As long as there’s no functional damage, you’re good". I would probably still spend 10 minutes on the phone to make sure it's alright, but they are clear in their policy that scratch are fine (and based on the damage of the back corners of some of their older cars, it's definitely fine). Their insurance is quite generous too, at first the deductible were 300$, they did increase it to 600$ but for 50$ a year you can remove it altogether. If you don't lower it, they charge 1$ more per trip, so in my case, I pay 50$ a year and there's no risk of fees.
mc32 7y ago
It looks like these companies could branch out a bit and add small conference rooms (like a small KTV room), cafeteria areas (small stand up tables), or small booths. I’m a big surprised they didn’t find their card being used as love hotels on wheels, but that may be understandable if most are kei cars.
- etatoby 7y ago
  They probably aren't talking about the ones used as love hotels on wheels. They could even be inflating those other niche uses in front of the media, in order to distance themselves from that other use.
kuu 7y ago
I'm surprised no one mentioned to use them for sexual activities...
nkrisc 7y ago
Sounds like people would pay for a small, readily-accessible private space. At first I thought this could be better served by having a proper space and building to house these spaces but maybe, unintentionally, parking a bunch of cars around for people to rent is actually a much lower barrier to entry than dealing with zoning and inspections and regulations.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  Imagine something like Porto-Potties? Porto-Office? It wouldn't have to be much larger, though it would probably need some kind of small A/C system, like you'd find on top of an RV. Put a bunch of batteries and/or a small genset under the seat area, a dropdown table on the door, a plug for power, and maybe optional 4/5G wifi. Add a credit card reader on the outside to take payment. Put a bunch on trailers and drop them off in places... There's gotta be a reason why this hasn't been done already - none of the tech needed is that special, most of it is already "off the shelf". There must be some kind of laws or regulations preventing it?
crispyambulance 7y ago
I find it strange that the places where this happens are so compressed that people feel like they literally have "make the space" to do normal life activities. What about public squares, parks, train stations, seating in/around office plaza's, libraries, cafe's?
icanhackit 7y ago
Sounds like an opportunity to me. Have a rule that you charge by Km travelled or fuel used, whichever is greatest $-wise. Also have a car where the interior can be quickly converted into a bed...a double bed. Bonus points for electrochromic glass for privacy. The glass can only be activated when the car is fully stopped with the handbrake engaged. Uses: sleep, sex, rest, air-conditioned space, heated space, eating space, electrical outlet for phone or laptop, quiet room, change room...oh and a car. Basically anything a hotel can be but also portable. Add automated driving to the equation and who knows what kind of a beast the industry will be in a decade.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  Decouple the environmental controls and electrical subsystem from the engine by using a separate electricity generator with a separate fuel supply. Use deep-cycle marine batteries as a buffer, and have the generator turn on to top them off when they get below a threshold. Meter the power usage for the generator, and charge for distance travelled and by power used. A lot of owner-operator truckers have discrete electricity generators, because running the engine just for HVAC and electric power causes unnecessary maintenance costs. There are even truck stops that pipe in electricity, HVAC, and video channels through an umbilical that hangs down to one of the windows. A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them to live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it can fit into a van-sized parking space. Also, I'd just use blackout curtains or aluminum shutters instead of the electrochromic glass, and use a removable or retractable privacy barrier between the driver compartment and the private space. I'd rather use simple and reliable tech for simple requirements.
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    > A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them to live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it can fit into a van-sized parking space. You're basically describing what used to be called (here in the United States - circa 1970s-80s) a "conversion van". Today, you'd probably use something like one of the larger/tall "Ford Transit Connect" vans; which I wouldn't doubt that some company does conversions on, for sale as mini RVs.
kartan 7y ago
This is a problem with big cities. There are no public spaces. Even less private spaces for free. Recently, I was in Barcelona and was surprised to see a bunch of teenagers cramped together sitting on the pavement in a shopping mall. At first, as an old person that I am, I thought that they were up to something. But, they were having fun, laughing and having a good time. The only park had no trees and few banks anyway. So, it was better to sit on the floor somewhere in the shadow that to sit on the floor under the sun. Even more interesting was the fact that the place had a lot of empty chairs. But, those ones were for paying customers. If it is so hard to find a place to sit with friends much more difficult is to find a place where to sit alone. Some libraries are ditching the focus on books to just offer a space to study together or alone. If I have criticised USA cities for being designed for cars European (and Japanese also) cities are designed for businesses. Stockholm is one of the few cities where I have seen a focus on parks and outdoor pastimes. Ironically, it is only available two or three months a year as usually is too cold to be confortably sitting outsite.
- nn3 7y ago
  Stockholm has good parks, but absolutely no public toilets. So better don't drink anything while you're out. There are lots of European cities with lots of parks, like Warsaw, Budapest, Prague.
- johnwalkr 7y ago
  There’s a ton of public space in Tokyo. To me this reads as: - people pay for car sharing (generally it requires a monthly fee plus a small usage fee per hour) - occasionally people that already pay the monthly fee take advantage of a nearby available car to sit in or nap in. This isn’t a widespread trend where public space is so limited one needs to rent a car to sit in. The napping explanation is probably the most common. It’s normal to see people napping in vehicles at midday, especially delivery drivers and construction workers. I can see the appeal of hopping in a nearby car-share car to nap as it would be more comfortable than the seating one can normally find.
evanweaver 7y ago
At this very moment I am sitting in a dealer-provided loaner car by a strip mall, because I have to wait for my own car to be repaired and I need to make phone calls. There is no other space nearby where I can do that for love or money, including the dealership waiting room. I asked for the loaner vehicle for this purpose specifically. The car has AC and privacy. I get it. I wish it also had a desk.
Markoff 7y ago
I am always surprised more young people won't buy cheap trailers or old RVs and just won't park it in free parking lot, would not be problem in many European countries and it beats rent in big cities of you have some savings to buy it, bonus points for using it for actually traveling in summer I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space. heck according laws car doesn't even need to have license plate, it just need to look like it's drive worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee
- cr0sh 7y ago
  > I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space. If you're going to go that route, look into a used moving truck; much more space, easier to modify for storage (or if you want to go "tiny home" in the future), and likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back). They don't tend to be very expensive (although they also don't tend to have great mileage per gallon or litre of fuel - but neither do most vans of any good size). > heck according laws car doesn't even need to have license plate, it just need to look like it's drive worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee If you're in the United States, you might want to verify this. Usually, you need registration, plates and tags on a vehicle that isn't parked or used on private land. Your landlord may or may not be ok with having such a vehicle on their property. Insurance would be optional, but you might want to speak to your agent to find out whether your renter's policy would cover any losses from the van, or if you can get a separate rider for that - or if you need completely separate insurance coverage.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back)" The moving trucks I've used are not very solid at all in the back. Googling, it appears that even larger trucks are made with a box that is mainly 1 mm thick aluminum (and that is claimed to be "above industry standards).
percentcer 7y ago
This has been on my mind lately. I'm surprised there isn't a WeWork-like company that is offering total silence and isolation. Please free me from open office plans, cafe chatter, and street noise.
ymkjp 7y ago
Japan is an excellent place for visiting but not for living unless you luckily find a proper employer (might be yourself), which is also true to rental car. It's adventurous urban camping if you are a visitor. Most of the cities in Japan are enough safe for adults to walk outside even at midnight, and there are konbinis for clothing and food. So going to a gym (for shower) + renting a car (for sleep) can be more reasonable than staying at a hotel, and maybe you will have a priceless experience when figuring out how to survive in a center of the city. In reality, on the other hand, as this article says, the shared-car is a built-in system among the working poor. Laborers in Japan work too long, and their commute takes too long so the car is a savior to maximize their sleep time.

183 points by kawera 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

This certainly isn't a uniquely Japanese phenomenon, but I feel like it's definitely something I'd expect to hear about from Japan. That touch of unconcerned practicality.

etatoby 7y ago
Also, the delicious boxed lunches sold everywhere, combined with the social stigma about eating them anywhere that is not a private space or a space already devoted to eating.

jeffrallen 7y ago

"the street finds its own uses for things" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome

flocial 7y ago

>Operators also lose cash when consumers rent vehicles for “non-driving purposes” since customers pay more if they log a lot of mileage. This quote struck me as strange since the price of gas is included in Times Car Share which is the biggest car share service. https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html https://share.timescar.jp/fare/use.html

baq 7y ago
gas is not the only cost of mileage though.
- iainmerrick 7y ago
  Right, it also depreciates the car. Mileage is the most important factor in determining sale price.
LudwigNagasena 7y ago
This quote struck me a strange since they aren’t losing anything. They just earn extra cash from a new use case.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  ...and potentially lose a more lucrative sale. Hard to quantify, though.
rerx 7y ago
It looks like there's a price per kilometer driven when you book a "pack" of hours (going by Google Translate here).
hawski 7y ago
In a way for those users it would be better to keep quiet about their use, because now companies will try to find a way to charge them for it.
laurieg 7y ago
I love Times Car Sharing and use it heavily, but I find the pricing structure a little bit obtuse: There are various "packs" for example a 6 hour pack, 12 hour pack etc. The 6 hour pack means you don't get charged anything extra for fuel/kilometer. The other packs do charge you a fixed rate per kilometer. There are also special packs at nighttime. The app doesn't really help you pick the best one for you or minimise your price. Here's an example: Book a car from 5.45 to 11.30. You're 15 minutes short of the 6 hour pack so you pay the basic time rate. Now change the booking to 5.45 to 11.45. You now pay the 6 hour rate (4000 yen iirc). Move the booking to 6 to midnight. Now you pay 2000 yen because it's night-time. Overall I love the car sharing experience, it sure as hell beats paying 20,000 yen a month for a car parking space. I just wish they made this a bit clearer/easier to use.

baxtr 7y ago

> One respondent to the company's survey said they rented vehicles to nap in or use for a workspace. Another person stored bags and other personal belongings in the rental car when nearby coin lockers were full.

mft_ 7y ago

Interesting that this solution bubbled up. I've struggled with similar issues before - when travelling, or out in a city, where to do some quiet work, or take a call, or speak to a group of colleagues? I've explored short-term (i.e. hourly) office space rentals, but IME the low headline rates ("from...") become a lot higher when you dig into the specifics and have minimum spends. I'd happily pay $<=20-30 for a convenient small quiet office for an hour, but not $80+. I've also never found a service that offers anything like the low friction that (from the article) unlocking a car remotely would offer. I wonder if this area is ready for some disruption...?

Slartie 7y ago
You mean disruption like: "park" a large number of trailers in cities, containing small office rooms, small apartments, hotel rooms, rows of lockers...whatever. Then rent out those and undercut other market participants which actually need to pay for the buildings and properties in which they operate, while you just "park" your relatively-cheap custom trailers in areas where this is free of charge.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Not that many places near a city you can park a trailer free of charge - and if there were, you can bet this scheme would accelerate charging for them. I suppose the next phase would be electric self-driving vehicles, circulating endlessly on the roads while the occupants sleep or study. That would probably force the city to implement tiered congestion pricing to force them out.
- treerock 7y ago
  I've seen advertising boards on trailers parked by the side of roads in public parking spaces. Angled to face into the traffic, so probably not parked temporarily.
- eitland 7y ago
  If they already have the parking capacity and use it for rental cars and then realize people just want to sit in box I don’t see anything particularly bad about buying cheaper, more practical boxes for that purpose instead of buying more expensive impractical boxes?

kurtisc 7y ago

I wonder how the cost compares to a love hotel?

ironic_ali 7y ago
Asking for a friend?
- kurtisc 7y ago
  For a horror screenplay
  - beigeoak 7y ago
    If this is a joke, this is the wittiest comment I have read on this site. If this is not a joke, this is the funniest comment I have read on any site.
Johnny555 7y ago
These cars start at around 400 yen for 30 minutes so the love hotel is more expensive, and they typically want to rent for a block of a few hours, but pricing usually works out to around 1000 - 1500 yen ($10 - $15) per hour at a love hotel. Of course, you get a real bed with a love hotel, so it might be worth the extra if all you want to do is sleep, though the walls aren't super soundproof.

jnty 7y ago

This is pretty amusing but highlights the distortions caused by the huge implicit rent subsidy that car parking usually receives. Where else can you hire private space in the centre of a city on an hourly basis for the rates that car sharing companies charge?

kalleboo 7y ago
> huge implicit rent subsidy that car parking usually receives I don't think car parking gets a rent subsidy in Japan. They don't have the US-style zoning with required parking spots per square meter, and when you buy a car you have to prove you have a monthly parking spot (which can be quite expensive due to the land cost) > Where else can you hire private space in the centre of a city on an hourly basis for the rates that car sharing companies charge As the article mentions in passing, cybercafes/manga cafes cost around the same as car parking, and you get a private booth, WiFi, sometimes free soft drinks etc. Some have showers and other facilities. http://www.live-matsuya.co.jp/anchor/images/anchor_01.jpg http://www.live-matsuya.co.jp/anchor/images/anchor_01.jpg
- gwern 7y ago
  > I don't think car parking gets a rent subsidy in Japan. They don't have the US-style zoning with required parking spots per square meter, and when you buy a car you have to prove you have a monthly parking spot (which can be quite expensive due to the land cost) There must be a subsidy here, because these cars are being driven elsewhere (low mileage != no mileage), and the comparison of the car rental cost as being similar to that of the cybercafe implies there is no additional cost of parking. So the parking is free, but it's quite valuable, as demonstrated by their exploitation of it; hence, there's subsidies here somewhere.
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    The largest car-sharing company is run by a chain of parking lots, so you could say that the parking lot business is subsidizing the car-sharing business. Anyway, I just looked up some actual prices for central Tokyo: * Parking, 1 hour: 900 yen * Car sharing, 1 hour: 900-1,800 yen (depending on car class) * Cybercafe, 1 hour: 550 yen So sitting in a car actually costs twice as much as a cybercafe

darkteflon 7y ago

That headline is _awful_.

thrifter 7y ago

and even do facial stretches said to reduce the size of their face Can someone explain this one to me? Is this a weird translation or do people in Japan actually do this?

lifthrasiir 7y ago
It is a disposable facial mask [1] used for cosmetics. I don't think it is actually able to reduce the face size though ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_mask https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_mask
sdrothrock 7y ago
https://www.byrdie.com/facial-massage-technique https://www.byrdie.com/facial-massage-technique It's this kind of thing. It's literally a facial massage, not a translation issue.
rangibaby 7y ago
Korean face massage is a fad in Japan at the moment https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc https://youtu.be/n9mXYIT10Rc

Theodores 7y ago

The seats in any car are better engineered and far more comfortable than the typical chair in an office, home, park, bus or train. Never underestimate the value of a comfy seat.

LeonidasXIV 7y ago
When we scrapped our old '90ies Opel Astra we kept the passengers seat and made it into a funky-looking but insanely comfy regular chair at home by attaching it with some screws to a simple base made of wood, so it is high enough to sit it. At some point my dad said he's sad we didn't keep the drivers seat as well.
- Theodores 7y ago
  Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too? I am surprised given the popularity of the show that more people haven't gone for the car-seats-at-home option. You get head rests into the bargain, plus, if you need to re-upholster there are after market seat covers and even those bead things that people had in their cars then. Essentially all these seats go for scrap so you could get the leather seats from a 7-series BMW to have a mega cool sofa at home complete with arm rest and cup-holders. With a few more bits of wood you could make some outer arm-rests. Heated/cooled seats could be nice too. Maybe there is a 1990's sweet spot where the electronics aren't present so adjustment can be done with mechanical controls, as per your Astra option. A Transit Van could have particularly good pickings with the right vintage.
  - LeonidasXIV 7y ago
    > Did you watch re-runs of Top Gear on Dave too? Nah, I haven't watched any Top Gear. But the seat was just always so comfy in a way none of the seats in the never cars I've been in was. I think it is due to how the seat envelopes you, in a way reminiscent of race cars (which the Astra was not, by any stretch of imagination). I think heated seats could be possible as well, I assume the required electronics and the protocols they speak for regulation should be rather simple. But given the seat is at home there is not that much need to heat it up :)

kristopolous 7y ago

I ran a very affordable car share platform for years. One gentleman used it at night to study in. We suspected his claims of it being a comfortable place to get work done didn't fit with renting it from say midnight to 5 but upon an "investigation" we saw books and papers on the dash, the dome lights on, you know, deep study. Still think it's kinda strange... He was middle aged and married. My theory was he had a snoring wife at home and was taking night school or something. There was another gentleman who would book the cars at night and also go nowhere for hours. Upon investigating him he was listening to fiction books on tape... Relaxing with the seat back and enjoying the novel. Rented around the same time almost every evening.

Blahah 7y ago
I don't think it's strange. I often prefer to work or study in the car compared to using busy (library) or expensive (cafe/coworking space) alternatives. Home is reserved for relaxation and family, and I learned when I used to commute a long way by car that it serves as a mobile private and separate space that's perfect for self improvement and learning.
- aiisjustanif 7y ago
  It wasn't uncomfortable to study in? No table or useful space to put things on to read or write, imo.
  - Blahah 7y ago
    No, I use software, digital reading and audio to study. I don't need a surface or to handwrite. Served me well through undergrad, PhD and 7+ languages :).
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - Brakenshire 7y ago
    I wonder whether there are any cars that can fit a good desk in the passenger seat. You’d have thought it’d be useful for a lot of people.

Zanni 7y ago

I do something like this with my own car (not a rental). I live in a very hot climate and don't have AC, so my home office is essentially useless in the summer. Recently I bought a Tesla Model 3, and I'll just take my laptop out to the car, sit in the passenger seat and select "Keep climate on" from my phone. I never felt comfortable doing this with an ICE car due to engine vibration, noise and stink. Sometimes I break up my work day by going to Starbucks and working there, but if I can't find a seat, I can just bring my drink back to my car. It's not ideal--there's no table--but it's not bad.

zj45499 7y ago
> https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fid%3D20359901%2320361247* https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=20361247&goto=item%3Fi... What's wrong with purchasing an AC at home?
- loxs 7y ago
  Probably rental home. I have also been in this situation where my landlord wasn't in the moods of having to deal with AC installation, so he didn't approve it. I can imagine doing the same if I had a Tesla 3 back then.
  - magduf 7y ago
    If you're in the US, you don't need to worry about landlords to install AC; as long as the room has a window, you just buy a window AC unit and stick it in.
    - cr0sh 7y ago
      Or get a portable unit and vent the exhaust out a window or door (or if nfg, into the attic/plenum space). Portables tend to be more expensive, and you usually have a water tank to dump occasionally (condensate), but they are easier to set up, and to store during cooler periods.
    - zrobotics 7y ago

matthewfelgate 7y ago

Welcome to the future. The future of cars is they will be more like rooms than cars.

etatoby 7y ago
Not futuristic enough. The future of rooms is they will be more like cars than rooms.

benj111 7y ago

I wonder how long it will take for 'cars' to appear that are technically roadworthy but have a better layout for this kind of thing, or maybe a double decker could be converted for the purpose.

lostphilosopher 7y ago
https://www.pinterest.com/philippinesdoug/mobile-van-office-ideas/ https://www.pinterest.com/philippinesdoug/mobile-van-office-...
skohan 7y ago
This reminds me - I remember hearing that the whole reason trailer parks exist is because in some places the laws for vehicle financing were vastly different than home financing. As a result, banks had an incentive to lend to vehicle buyers with income/credit ratings they could not approve home loans for. Someone figured out they could open up an entirely new market by slapping wheels on tiny homes and calling them vehicles, even if no one would ever intend to move them anywhere. The whole thing is predatory, but it's an interesting case study in perverse incentives.

VBprogrammer 7y ago

Anyone else hate car sharing services? Honestly I just found the experience increadibly stressful. Before I go anywhere, is every little scratch and dent listed in the little handbook? If I clip something in a carpark (like a bollard or tall curb) I've got to spend 30 minutes on the phone explaining it to the person on the other end then pay some hard to determine fee. On my way back to the spot if I get caught in traffic there is another fine for being late. That's before we get into the difficulty of how you'd do it with a small child with a pram and car seat etc.

khalilravanna 7y ago
Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option to rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper. The policy would be like “Cosmetic damage ok. As long as there’s no functional damage, you’re good.” I personally don’t give a flying f—— if my rental car looks like a junkyard lot special, as long as it drives me safely to my destination. Plus it saves me stress if some dbag dings my rental in a parking lot. I guess maybe the counter argument for this (other than rental companies fighting it because I’m sure they shadily draw in some revenue from gauging people on fees for cosmetic damage) is it might be harder to catch functional damage if you stop checking for cosmetic damage. Though, I’m not so sure that’s true.
- OrangeMango 7y ago
  > Just spitballing here but it makes me think there should just be an option to rent a dinged up, scratched up car for cheaper. Here you go https://www.rentawreck.com/ https://www.rentawreck.com/
- dwild 7y ago
  The car sharing service I use here in Quebec, does have a "Cosmetic damage ok. As long as there’s no functional damage, you’re good". I would probably still spend 10 minutes on the phone to make sure it's alright, but they are clear in their policy that scratch are fine (and based on the damage of the back corners of some of their older cars, it's definitely fine). Their insurance is quite generous too, at first the deductible were 300$, they did increase it to 600$ but for 50$ a year you can remove it altogether. If you don't lower it, they charge 1$ more per trip, so in my case, I pay 50$ a year and there's no risk of fees.

mc32 7y ago

It looks like these companies could branch out a bit and add small conference rooms (like a small KTV room), cafeteria areas (small stand up tables), or small booths. I’m a big surprised they didn’t find their card being used as love hotels on wheels, but that may be understandable if most are kei cars.

etatoby 7y ago
They probably aren't talking about the ones used as love hotels on wheels. They could even be inflating those other niche uses in front of the media, in order to distance themselves from that other use.

kuu 7y ago

I'm surprised no one mentioned to use them for sexual activities...

nkrisc 7y ago

Sounds like people would pay for a small, readily-accessible private space. At first I thought this could be better served by having a proper space and building to house these spaces but maybe, unintentionally, parking a bunch of cars around for people to rent is actually a much lower barrier to entry than dealing with zoning and inspections and regulations.

cr0sh 7y ago
Imagine something like Porto-Potties? Porto-Office? It wouldn't have to be much larger, though it would probably need some kind of small A/C system, like you'd find on top of an RV. Put a bunch of batteries and/or a small genset under the seat area, a dropdown table on the door, a plug for power, and maybe optional 4/5G wifi. Add a credit card reader on the outside to take payment. Put a bunch on trailers and drop them off in places... There's gotta be a reason why this hasn't been done already - none of the tech needed is that special, most of it is already "off the shelf". There must be some kind of laws or regulations preventing it?

crispyambulance 7y ago

I find it strange that the places where this happens are so compressed that people feel like they literally have "make the space" to do normal life activities. What about public squares, parks, train stations, seating in/around office plaza's, libraries, cafe's?

icanhackit 7y ago

Sounds like an opportunity to me. Have a rule that you charge by Km travelled or fuel used, whichever is greatest $-wise. Also have a car where the interior can be quickly converted into a bed...a double bed. Bonus points for electrochromic glass for privacy. The glass can only be activated when the car is fully stopped with the handbrake engaged. Uses: sleep, sex, rest, air-conditioned space, heated space, eating space, electrical outlet for phone or laptop, quiet room, change room...oh and a car. Basically anything a hotel can be but also portable. Add automated driving to the equation and who knows what kind of a beast the industry will be in a decade.

logfromblammo 7y ago
Decouple the environmental controls and electrical subsystem from the engine by using a separate electricity generator with a separate fuel supply. Use deep-cycle marine batteries as a buffer, and have the generator turn on to top them off when they get below a threshold. Meter the power usage for the generator, and charge for distance travelled and by power used. A lot of owner-operator truckers have discrete electricity generators, because running the engine just for HVAC and electric power causes unnecessary maintenance costs. There are even truck stops that pipe in electricity, HVAC, and video channels through an umbilical that hangs down to one of the windows. A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them to live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it can fit into a van-sized parking space. Also, I'd just use blackout curtains or aluminum shutters instead of the electrochromic glass, and use a removable or retractable privacy barrier between the driver compartment and the private space. I'd rather use simple and reliable tech for simple requirements.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  > A miniaturized RV that is basically a stripped-down mobile motel room will also have a decent post-fleet-vehicle secondary market, as people buy them to live in full-time, or use more like a traditional RV, excepting that it can fit into a van-sized parking space. You're basically describing what used to be called (here in the United States - circa 1970s-80s) a "conversion van". Today, you'd probably use something like one of the larger/tall "Ford Transit Connect" vans; which I wouldn't doubt that some company does conversions on, for sale as mini RVs.

kartan 7y ago

This is a problem with big cities. There are no public spaces. Even less private spaces for free. Recently, I was in Barcelona and was surprised to see a bunch of teenagers cramped together sitting on the pavement in a shopping mall. At first, as an old person that I am, I thought that they were up to something. But, they were having fun, laughing and having a good time. The only park had no trees and few banks anyway. So, it was better to sit on the floor somewhere in the shadow that to sit on the floor under the sun. Even more interesting was the fact that the place had a lot of empty chairs. But, those ones were for paying customers. If it is so hard to find a place to sit with friends much more difficult is to find a place where to sit alone. Some libraries are ditching the focus on books to just offer a space to study together or alone. If I have criticised USA cities for being designed for cars European (and Japanese also) cities are designed for businesses. Stockholm is one of the few cities where I have seen a focus on parks and outdoor pastimes. Ironically, it is only available two or three months a year as usually is too cold to be confortably sitting outsite.

nn3 7y ago
Stockholm has good parks, but absolutely no public toilets. So better don't drink anything while you're out. There are lots of European cities with lots of parks, like Warsaw, Budapest, Prague.
johnwalkr 7y ago
There’s a ton of public space in Tokyo. To me this reads as: - people pay for car sharing (generally it requires a monthly fee plus a small usage fee per hour) - occasionally people that already pay the monthly fee take advantage of a nearby available car to sit in or nap in. This isn’t a widespread trend where public space is so limited one needs to rent a car to sit in. The napping explanation is probably the most common. It’s normal to see people napping in vehicles at midday, especially delivery drivers and construction workers. I can see the appeal of hopping in a nearby car-share car to nap as it would be more comfortable than the seating one can normally find.

evanweaver 7y ago

At this very moment I am sitting in a dealer-provided loaner car by a strip mall, because I have to wait for my own car to be repaired and I need to make phone calls. There is no other space nearby where I can do that for love or money, including the dealership waiting room. I asked for the loaner vehicle for this purpose specifically. The car has AC and privacy. I get it. I wish it also had a desk.

Markoff 7y ago

I am always surprised more young people won't buy cheap trailers or old RVs and just won't park it in free parking lot, would not be problem in many European countries and it beats rent in big cities of you have some savings to buy it, bonus points for using it for actually traveling in summer I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space. heck according laws car doesn't even need to have license plate, it just need to look like it's drive worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee

cr0sh 7y ago
> I have my own apartment without mortgage but I am still considering buying some van, parking it in front of my residential building and using it as extremely cheap and easily accessible storage space. If you're going to go that route, look into a used moving truck; much more space, easier to modify for storage (or if you want to go "tiny home" in the future), and likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back). They don't tend to be very expensive (although they also don't tend to have great mileage per gallon or litre of fuel - but neither do most vans of any good size). > heck according laws car doesn't even need to have license plate, it just need to look like it's drive worthy, so not even yearly insurance fee If you're in the United States, you might want to verify this. Usually, you need registration, plates and tags on a vehicle that isn't parked or used on private land. Your landlord may or may not be ok with having such a vehicle on their property. Insurance would be optional, but you might want to speak to your agent to find out whether your renter's policy would cover any losses from the van, or if you can get a separate rider for that - or if you need completely separate insurance coverage.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  "likely much more secure (being a closed box in the back)" The moving trucks I've used are not very solid at all in the back. Googling, it appears that even larger trucks are made with a box that is mainly 1 mm thick aluminum (and that is claimed to be "above industry standards).

percentcer 7y ago

This has been on my mind lately. I'm surprised there isn't a WeWork-like company that is offering total silence and isolation. Please free me from open office plans, cafe chatter, and street noise.

ymkjp 7y ago

Japan is an excellent place for visiting but not for living unless you luckily find a proper employer (might be yourself), which is also true to rental car. It's adventurous urban camping if you are a visitor. Most of the cities in Japan are enough safe for adults to walk outside even at midnight, and there are konbinis for clothing and food. So going to a gym (for shower) + renting a car (for sleep) can be more reasonable than staying at a hotel, and maybe you will have a priceless experience when figuring out how to survive in a center of the city. In reality, on the other hand, as this article says, the shared-car is a built-in system among the working poor. Laborers in Japan work too long, and their commute takes too long so the car is a savior to maximize their sleep time.