11 ms·

Cannabidiol in Anxiety and Sleep: A Large Case Series

196 points by mettamage 7y ago

jey 7y ago
This is a case series and literally has no control group. What's the background rate of people getting better without using CBD?
- mettamage 7y ago
  I was kind of surprised to read that CBD wasn’t studied that much in the firzt place.
  - minikites 7y ago
    That's what happens when a drug is Schedule I without medical or scientific basis (it was merely racism).
    - tamaharbor 7y ago
      Playing the racism card?
- pryce 7y ago
  No control group, no placebo, not blinded, not double-blinded, small sample size. The only possible real takeaway from a study like this is that it appears to support undertaking a larger, more expensive & more robust study on in determining whether CBD may have benefits in treating anxiety and insomnia. Seeing a candidate treatment at such an incredibly embryonic stage being voted to the top spot of hacker news, to me, suggests our HN audience has significant room for improvement in ascertaining the quality or implications of published scientific studies. EDIT: In particular, a risk here is that readers here might feel encouraged to try smoking cannabis for self-treatment of anxiety or insomnia, which is quite a different thing than taking CBD itself. Specifically, recreational cannabis is intentionally grown to have a high THC content, and THC can and does have negative consequences for those people suffering from anxiety.
  - slfnflctd 7y ago
    > a candidate treatment at such an incredibly embryonic stage being voted to the top spot of hacker news, to me, suggests our HN audience has significant room for improvement It's a super hot topic right now because these shops have suddenly popped up all over the country - including in cannabis prohibition states - and some of them must be making a good amount of money for there to be so many. Business minded people are acutely interested in where this thing is going long term, so any data at all is seized upon, no matter how dubious. This, of course, makes comments like yours even more important and appreciated.
- arkades 7y ago
  Importantly: Inducing unconsciousness isn’t the same as sleep. Many chemicals that knock you on your ass also disrupt sleep architecture. A study that doesn’t at least throw a polysomnography on the patients to make a gesture in the direction of “they’re getting actual sleep” isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
- nydel 7y ago
  A large case series[1] on reviewing dubious publications on Cannabidiol indicates substantial increase in anxiety among critical thinkers. A causative correlation[2] is concluded by the series. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340937 [2] https://www.xceleratemaths.com/algebra/images/graph-y=x.gif https://www.xceleratemaths.com/algebra/images/graph-y=x.gif
- Gatsky 7y ago
  There will be proper controlled trials soon, there is no substitute. However, it's worth noting that most complementary therapies actually do nothing - homeopathy is the classic example. Of course, we know many people find them helpful for a variety of reasons, but they actually do not have any physiological or pharmacological effect. CBD on the other hand is definitely a psychoactive substance, which may have side-effects. I think this actually makes it more likely a priori that it is a useful treatment. Put it this way, say we didn't know about CBD at all, if a drug company discovered CBD in some kind of drug screen, they would definitely test it and advance it into clinical trials.
- scott_s 7y ago
  Not only that, the CBD was given in addition to normal treatment: "A large retrospective case series at a psychiatric clinic involving clinical application of CBD for anxiety and sleep complaints as an adjunct to usual treatment." This study design prevents us from making any strong conclusions on CBD. Was it the normal treatment that helped, or the CBD? With no controls, and no separation of standard treatment and the new intervention, we can't conclude anything. In defense of the study authors, they don't make a strong conclusion, and call for controlled clinical trials. But I doubt people talking about the study will be that restrained.
mettamage 7y ago
Why I post this: I am trying to sleep but can’t (on my phone to not wake anyone). I was wondering whether CBD might help. The study is simply a discussion prompt. My query also found [1]. I wonder who else has some insight into CBD. Edit: since this comment is quite down the discussion thread I would like to promote another topic [2]. It is about creating wearables that are able to measure stress. Measuring stress [2] and controlling stress (this topic) are underlooked things, in my opinion. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-2018082414476 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340989
- greywolf 7y ago
  have you tried to get help from a doctor?
- 50656E6973 7y ago
  Why don't you try it for yourself? In my experience the effects are very mild, but does seem to help silence that "internal chatter" which causes anxiety and prevents one from getting to sleep. I've also found turning off all you devices ~2 hours before bed and reading a book until my eyes get tired to be of even greater help with getting to sleep quickly and feeling well rested the next day.
- jaequery 7y ago
  I’ve had chronic insomnia for over 3 years. The day I started CBD, was about 4 months ago. Right before that, my option was to try Ambien that I had to pry off from the doctors hands. I’ve not had the guts to try it after hearing it messes with your brain and causes you to have suicidal thoughts. So I tried CBD after a quick research. First night, I didn’t feel a difference. I did feel a bit sleepier but I thought that was just my mind wanting to think that way. But after weeks of using it, I now can notice a calming effect that happens within 30 mins to an hour. And after I sleep, I wake up actually feeling refreshed. Some nights, I feel like I slept for days. It various night to night. But compared to when I did not take CBd, I am sleeping way better now with cbd. I used to be on the fence about it’s effectiveness but the effects are so noticeable to me now that I’m incredibly thankful for CBD. And for those that say just take a puff of the real thing, I never got a good night sleep with thc, I may get knocked out but I feel tired waking up. On the contrary, CBD actually increases your deep sleep cycle where as THC shortens it, similar to Ambien. This is a big factor you can’t ignore.
tamaharbor 7y ago
Iron and magnesium supplementation worked miracles for me.
spectramax 7y ago
Stupid question but I’ve always wondered this - I hear Cannabis is used for anxiety relief but doesn’t smoking marijuana induce anxiety? Everyone I know who has smoked weed agrees with my experience - they’ve encountered some level of anxiety and paranoia. So, how exactly does weed help in reducing anxiety? Edit: Follow up question -> Is weed used to treat anxiety during the high or when you are normal (and have general anxiety when not smoking pot)?
- fwip 7y ago
  Anecdotally, it depends on the person. Marijuana makes it easy for my over-worrying brain to relax and trust that things will turn out okay. Other people I know find the opposite. Edit: this is also a study of CBD specifically, not of weed as a whole.
- jcims 7y ago
  This is for CBD. Anxiety from cannabis is typically attributed to the THC content.
- TrinaryWorksToo 7y ago
  The logic is that CBD is different than THC, the anxiety provoking, psychoactive chemical.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  Interestingly marijuana does make me feel anxious, but at the same time completely alleviates my social anxiety.
- oaththrowaway 7y ago
  Probably depends on the person, strain, and frequency of usage... for me it melted away stress and helped me sleep. I used it pretty sparingly though.
oaththrowaway 7y ago
I haven't tried just CBD for sleep, but a few years back I couldn't fall asleep to save my life. A friend suggested smoking cannabis to help, and when I would I had the best sleep of my life.
- anonuser123456 7y ago
  You had the best sleep experience of your life. That doesn't translate to the healthiest sleep of your life. You were just very unconscious. THC is well documented for the unhealthy effects it has on your sleep cycles.
  - oaththrowaway 7y ago
    I'm sure it was healthier than the 2-3 hours of sleep I was running on before.
    - anonuser123456 7y ago
      Try 7.5mg of remeron/mirtazapine next time.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Chazprime 7y ago
Interesting to see an actual study, even if it’s a small test group. I’m usually getting maybe 4-5 hours of sleep a night, so about 6 months ago I started taking CBD oil at night (500mg and then 1500mg hemplucid). My experiences are pretty consistent with the study results here - I’d get about 1-1.5 hours more a night for the first month, but by month two I was already graduating to the 1500mg strength because my body was adapting to it so fast. By the fourth month I was taking double the dosage of the prior month, and by month six I stopped taking it altogether… the effects were severely diminished and at $200 a bottle for the 1500mg strength, it would be more cost effective to just smoke the real thing as it is now legal where I live.
- throwaway8879 7y ago
  I had the same 4-5 hours sleep issue until I started to exercise/run regularly. Being a recovering addict/alcoholic, I usually avoid any dependencies, which is why I can't start taking a substance, even if it helps with sleep. In any case, are you getting regular exercise?
  - pifuoweiuf983 7y ago
    I exercise pretty heavily. it's a different thing entirely.
  - Chazprime 7y ago
    Exercise was the answer for me as well. I usually run in the morning, but switching to evenings proved more effective for sleeping longer.
- pifuoweiuf983 7y ago
  jesus that's pricey. Was gonna say, why not just take a puff of the joint at the end of the day?
  - Chazprime 7y ago
    It can sometimes be tough being married and starting a habit like that when your spouse doesn’t partake often. Yes, smoking is more effective than CBD, but exercise won out eventually.
antoniuschan99 7y ago
CBN is supposed to be used for sleep
- johnnyparker 7y ago
  "One of CBN’s biggest benefits is that it’s a strong sedative, making it effective as a sleep aid and anti-anxiety drug". Here's a writeup about the difference in CBN vs CBD - https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/cbd-vs-cbn/ https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/cbd-vs-cbn/
enz 7y ago
> The final sample consisted of 72 adults presenting with primary concerns of anxiety (n = 47) or poor sleep (n = 25). 72 adults seems a bit low to me. Does anyone knows if it's indeed low or a pretty normal sample for that kind of study? Besides, this study does not seem placebo-proof, right?
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  It's not a study. It's a post-facto case series, meaning they looked at some users who were given CBD and see how they responded. There was no control group. In other words, certainly raises interest to do an actual study, but absolutely 0 other conclusions can be drawn from this report.
ktaylora 7y ago
Probably need to repeat this study with 72 additional individuals treated with a placebo to compare against the cannabidiol group. My guess is that just thinking that you are doing something about your anxiety and sleep issues will result in decreased anxiety.
- kneel 7y ago
  Anecdotally this study confirms what I already found out on my own, CBD capsules helps my body relax with none of the anxiety that THC can trigger. No doubt other people are having the same realizations, CBD capsule prices have gone through the roof.
  - ktaylora 7y ago
    You can try the experiment on yourself. Find capsules of flax seed oil that look like capsules of CBD oil. Have someone place a one-to-three week supply of each in separate envelopes and take them twice daily. Score your anxiety level each morning until all the tabs are gone. Estimate your average anxiety level each week. Then ask the person to reveal the envelopes to you and see if you can find a measurable difference between the treatments.
    - Canadauni 7y ago
      To be really sure it would be a good idea to have one person enclose the tablets in the envelopes and a different person to administer them to you. But I suspect that there might be other factors here that might influence your study design. Mostly because neurotransmitters are super complicated.
  - xenospn 7y ago
    I've never used THC other than smoking or two or three times in my adult life. Tried CBD for a while and honestly could not feel a thing. Felt like I was taking vitamins.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
oblib 7y ago
I have some current experience with my adult daughter suffering with severe anxiety. I started looking for over the counter treatments and found studies that used magnesium glycinate successfully as a treatment and it has worked wonders for her. She takes a 300 mg tab and in 20 minutes she's completely calmed down. It only lasts for about four hours but the effect is amazing. The downside is it can cause diarrhea when taken every four hours but if she eats a couple bananas a day (for the fiber) that's not an issue. She's also been experiencing auditory hallucinations (hearing voices) and I found a study that showed CBD helping with that, so I got her to start taking that too, and it's worked amazingly well for her to deal with that. If it also helps with anxiety that's all the better for her. Her birth mother was diagnosed as schizophrenic about a year after my daughter was born so my daughter is probably dealing with that too, but the drug the doctors gave her mother 35 years ago (haloperidol) didn't work near as well as the magnesium/CBD my daughter is taking and the side effects were vicious. That shit turned her mother into a slobbering zombie. I took my daughter to a mental health facility yesterday to get evaluated and we told them she was taking the magnesium glycinate for anxiety and CBD for "the voices" and they didn't tell her to stop or prescribe any pharmaceutical drugs for her. They just told her to start "Mindful therapy" sessions with a doctor there. I've been smoking herb for about 46 years pretty much daily and have never felt anxious, but I've known a few people who have. I've attributed that to all the reefer madness that's been shoved at us for so long, but it could be it affects some people differently than I and all my herb smoking friends. I don't feel any effects at all from taking CBD, but I don't have any of the symptoms it's used to treat effectively and it could be I have plenty enough in my system from the weed I smoke anyway.
- chrstphrhrt 7y ago
  Very interesting, I have noticed a major (albeit fun) experience of mania from CBD, followed by extreme rebound anxiety after cessation following a period of taking it for a while. THC-heavy strains on the other hand, seem to have no bad effects.
- srik 7y ago
  IANAD. The glycerinate does have a better absorption rate but and taking over 300mg a day regularly apparently has the potential for side effects (beside those bowel effects) - at least that's what I've gathered looking into Mg supplements previously.
jaequery 7y ago
The cbd feeling for me is that the breathing gets slower and heavier. This was something I thought you obtain through meditation or other calming exercises but cbd just provides you this feeling within 30 mins. It’s especially nice after sleep. Because it’s those times when you wake up and your breathing have slowed to the point it relaxes you on each breath you know you had a rejuvenating sleep.
- jaequery 7y ago
  FYI I got my CBD from Apothio.net, they seem to have the highest concentration of terpenes which is key to its effectiveness
chisleu 7y ago
Small study with mostly small doses and better than expected outcomes IMHO. I have several friends using CBD for anxiety and depression (in addition to normal meds.) IMHO, it has profound potential medically. Anecdotal evidence is unreliable, but one close friend of mine started taking doses at my insistence while going through cocaine and heroine withdrawal. It make a profoundly noticeable change in her attitude. I hope that more clinical studies are funded regarding it's use for those matters because a cheap and readily available medicine to help with these symptoms is severely needed to help those seeking to end their addictions would be greatly beneficial to society at large.
- mettamage 7y ago
  I have the same hope, which is why I posted this. Moreover, I emailed the first author so they would be aware of the discussion here.
superkuh 7y ago
The dosages of CBD used in this study are far, far, too low to have any effect. Just like most CBD dosing in commercial situations. Usually scientific investigation use the actual useful dosages of 300-600 mg in humans. I guess these guys didn't do the required background review beforehand. CBD is not active at the CB1 or CB2 receptors. It has very low affinity for them. It has moderate affinity for the serotonin-1a autoreceptor (that the anti-anxiety medication buspirone also targets). But only at very high dosages (ie, 300mg+). So... this study has only really tested the placebo effect. edit: I finished reading the journal article and it turns out they didn't use clinically relevant doses because it'd cost too much. So they decided to just go the placebo route. >The doses used in this study (25 mg/d to 175 mg/d) were much lower than those reported in some of the clinical literature (300 mg/d to 600 mg/d)12–14,17 for 2 reasons. The first is that in our experience lower doses appear to elicit an adequate clinical response. Second, the current retail cost of CBD would make the use of 600 mg/d cost prohibitive.
- pizza 7y ago
  Yeah, the cheapest CBD I could find on Google was ~$30/g (pre- tax, shipping, etc). Good luck convincing people to spend $600/mo on their sleep! (I can already hear the HNers coming out of the woodwork to attest to their willingness to do so, how sleep is 1/3rd of your life and so if you're spending < 1/3rd of your income on it you're actually getting a great deal, and how it would actually save them tons of money to sleep a bit better and with a little less anxiety...yada yada.. but the vast majority of people can't do that)
  - cneurotic 7y ago
    Ha, your parenthetical definitely anticipated me. If I could RELIABLY score a solid 8 hours every single night, I would call $600/mo steep — but worth it.
    - JimboOmega 7y ago
      Also says something about the general cross section of HN users that $600/mo is "steep but worth it". There a lot of people for whom $600/mo is wildly unaffordable for anything, even essential medical care. (FWIW, I'm with you, if I could wake up well rested every morning, I'd drop $1K/mo or more without a second thought)

196 points by mettamage 7y ago

jey 7y ago

This is a case series and literally has no control group. What's the background rate of people getting better without using CBD?

mettamage 7y ago
I was kind of surprised to read that CBD wasn’t studied that much in the firzt place.
- minikites 7y ago
  That's what happens when a drug is Schedule I without medical or scientific basis (it was merely racism).
  - tamaharbor 7y ago
    Playing the racism card?
pryce 7y ago
No control group, no placebo, not blinded, not double-blinded, small sample size. The only possible real takeaway from a study like this is that it appears to support undertaking a larger, more expensive & more robust study on in determining whether CBD may have benefits in treating anxiety and insomnia. Seeing a candidate treatment at such an incredibly embryonic stage being voted to the top spot of hacker news, to me, suggests our HN audience has significant room for improvement in ascertaining the quality or implications of published scientific studies. EDIT: In particular, a risk here is that readers here might feel encouraged to try smoking cannabis for self-treatment of anxiety or insomnia, which is quite a different thing than taking CBD itself. Specifically, recreational cannabis is intentionally grown to have a high THC content, and THC can and does have negative consequences for those people suffering from anxiety.
- slfnflctd 7y ago
  > a candidate treatment at such an incredibly embryonic stage being voted to the top spot of hacker news, to me, suggests our HN audience has significant room for improvement It's a super hot topic right now because these shops have suddenly popped up all over the country - including in cannabis prohibition states - and some of them must be making a good amount of money for there to be so many. Business minded people are acutely interested in where this thing is going long term, so any data at all is seized upon, no matter how dubious. This, of course, makes comments like yours even more important and appreciated.
arkades 7y ago
Importantly: Inducing unconsciousness isn’t the same as sleep. Many chemicals that knock you on your ass also disrupt sleep architecture. A study that doesn’t at least throw a polysomnography on the patients to make a gesture in the direction of “they’re getting actual sleep” isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
nydel 7y ago
A large case series[1] on reviewing dubious publications on Cannabidiol indicates substantial increase in anxiety among critical thinkers. A causative correlation[2] is concluded by the series. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340937 [2] https://www.xceleratemaths.com/algebra/images/graph-y=x.gif https://www.xceleratemaths.com/algebra/images/graph-y=x.gif
Gatsky 7y ago
There will be proper controlled trials soon, there is no substitute. However, it's worth noting that most complementary therapies actually do nothing - homeopathy is the classic example. Of course, we know many people find them helpful for a variety of reasons, but they actually do not have any physiological or pharmacological effect. CBD on the other hand is definitely a psychoactive substance, which may have side-effects. I think this actually makes it more likely a priori that it is a useful treatment. Put it this way, say we didn't know about CBD at all, if a drug company discovered CBD in some kind of drug screen, they would definitely test it and advance it into clinical trials.
scott_s 7y ago
Not only that, the CBD was given in addition to normal treatment: "A large retrospective case series at a psychiatric clinic involving clinical application of CBD for anxiety and sleep complaints as an adjunct to usual treatment." This study design prevents us from making any strong conclusions on CBD. Was it the normal treatment that helped, or the CBD? With no controls, and no separation of standard treatment and the new intervention, we can't conclude anything. In defense of the study authors, they don't make a strong conclusion, and call for controlled clinical trials. But I doubt people talking about the study will be that restrained.

mettamage 7y ago

Why I post this: I am trying to sleep but can’t (on my phone to not wake anyone). I was wondering whether CBD might help. The study is simply a discussion prompt. My query also found [1]. I wonder who else has some insight into CBD. Edit: since this comment is quite down the discussion thread I would like to promote another topic [2]. It is about creating wearables that are able to measure stress. Measuring stress [2] and controlling stress (this topic) are underlooked things, in my opinion. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-2018082414476 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20340989

greywolf 7y ago
have you tried to get help from a doctor?
50656E6973 7y ago
Why don't you try it for yourself? In my experience the effects are very mild, but does seem to help silence that "internal chatter" which causes anxiety and prevents one from getting to sleep. I've also found turning off all you devices ~2 hours before bed and reading a book until my eyes get tired to be of even greater help with getting to sleep quickly and feeling well rested the next day.
jaequery 7y ago
I’ve had chronic insomnia for over 3 years. The day I started CBD, was about 4 months ago. Right before that, my option was to try Ambien that I had to pry off from the doctors hands. I’ve not had the guts to try it after hearing it messes with your brain and causes you to have suicidal thoughts. So I tried CBD after a quick research. First night, I didn’t feel a difference. I did feel a bit sleepier but I thought that was just my mind wanting to think that way. But after weeks of using it, I now can notice a calming effect that happens within 30 mins to an hour. And after I sleep, I wake up actually feeling refreshed. Some nights, I feel like I slept for days. It various night to night. But compared to when I did not take CBd, I am sleeping way better now with cbd. I used to be on the fence about it’s effectiveness but the effects are so noticeable to me now that I’m incredibly thankful for CBD. And for those that say just take a puff of the real thing, I never got a good night sleep with thc, I may get knocked out but I feel tired waking up. On the contrary, CBD actually increases your deep sleep cycle where as THC shortens it, similar to Ambien. This is a big factor you can’t ignore.

tamaharbor 7y ago

Iron and magnesium supplementation worked miracles for me.

spectramax 7y ago

Stupid question but I’ve always wondered this - I hear Cannabis is used for anxiety relief but doesn’t smoking marijuana induce anxiety? Everyone I know who has smoked weed agrees with my experience - they’ve encountered some level of anxiety and paranoia. So, how exactly does weed help in reducing anxiety? Edit: Follow up question -> Is weed used to treat anxiety during the high or when you are normal (and have general anxiety when not smoking pot)?

fwip 7y ago
Anecdotally, it depends on the person. Marijuana makes it easy for my over-worrying brain to relax and trust that things will turn out okay. Other people I know find the opposite. Edit: this is also a study of CBD specifically, not of weed as a whole.
jcims 7y ago
This is for CBD. Anxiety from cannabis is typically attributed to the THC content.
TrinaryWorksToo 7y ago
The logic is that CBD is different than THC, the anxiety provoking, psychoactive chemical.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Interestingly marijuana does make me feel anxious, but at the same time completely alleviates my social anxiety.
oaththrowaway 7y ago
Probably depends on the person, strain, and frequency of usage... for me it melted away stress and helped me sleep. I used it pretty sparingly though.

oaththrowaway 7y ago

I haven't tried just CBD for sleep, but a few years back I couldn't fall asleep to save my life. A friend suggested smoking cannabis to help, and when I would I had the best sleep of my life.

anonuser123456 7y ago
You had the best sleep experience of your life. That doesn't translate to the healthiest sleep of your life. You were just very unconscious. THC is well documented for the unhealthy effects it has on your sleep cycles.
- oaththrowaway 7y ago
  I'm sure it was healthier than the 2-3 hours of sleep I was running on before.
  - anonuser123456 7y ago
    Try 7.5mg of remeron/mirtazapine next time.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Chazprime 7y ago

Interesting to see an actual study, even if it’s a small test group. I’m usually getting maybe 4-5 hours of sleep a night, so about 6 months ago I started taking CBD oil at night (500mg and then 1500mg hemplucid). My experiences are pretty consistent with the study results here - I’d get about 1-1.5 hours more a night for the first month, but by month two I was already graduating to the 1500mg strength because my body was adapting to it so fast. By the fourth month I was taking double the dosage of the prior month, and by month six I stopped taking it altogether… the effects were severely diminished and at $200 a bottle for the 1500mg strength, it would be more cost effective to just smoke the real thing as it is now legal where I live.

throwaway8879 7y ago
I had the same 4-5 hours sleep issue until I started to exercise/run regularly. Being a recovering addict/alcoholic, I usually avoid any dependencies, which is why I can't start taking a substance, even if it helps with sleep. In any case, are you getting regular exercise?
- pifuoweiuf983 7y ago
  I exercise pretty heavily. it's a different thing entirely.
- Chazprime 7y ago
  Exercise was the answer for me as well. I usually run in the morning, but switching to evenings proved more effective for sleeping longer.
pifuoweiuf983 7y ago
jesus that's pricey. Was gonna say, why not just take a puff of the joint at the end of the day?
- Chazprime 7y ago
  It can sometimes be tough being married and starting a habit like that when your spouse doesn’t partake often. Yes, smoking is more effective than CBD, but exercise won out eventually.

antoniuschan99 7y ago

CBN is supposed to be used for sleep

johnnyparker 7y ago
"One of CBN’s biggest benefits is that it’s a strong sedative, making it effective as a sleep aid and anti-anxiety drug". Here's a writeup about the difference in CBN vs CBD - https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/cbd-vs-cbn/ https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/cbd-vs-cbn/

enz 7y ago

> The final sample consisted of 72 adults presenting with primary concerns of anxiety (n = 47) or poor sleep (n = 25). 72 adults seems a bit low to me. Does anyone knows if it's indeed low or a pretty normal sample for that kind of study? Besides, this study does not seem placebo-proof, right?

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
It's not a study. It's a post-facto case series, meaning they looked at some users who were given CBD and see how they responded. There was no control group. In other words, certainly raises interest to do an actual study, but absolutely 0 other conclusions can be drawn from this report.

ktaylora 7y ago

Probably need to repeat this study with 72 additional individuals treated with a placebo to compare against the cannabidiol group. My guess is that just thinking that you are doing something about your anxiety and sleep issues will result in decreased anxiety.

kneel 7y ago
Anecdotally this study confirms what I already found out on my own, CBD capsules helps my body relax with none of the anxiety that THC can trigger. No doubt other people are having the same realizations, CBD capsule prices have gone through the roof.
- ktaylora 7y ago
  You can try the experiment on yourself. Find capsules of flax seed oil that look like capsules of CBD oil. Have someone place a one-to-three week supply of each in separate envelopes and take them twice daily. Score your anxiety level each morning until all the tabs are gone. Estimate your average anxiety level each week. Then ask the person to reveal the envelopes to you and see if you can find a measurable difference between the treatments.
  - Canadauni 7y ago
    To be really sure it would be a good idea to have one person enclose the tablets in the envelopes and a different person to administer them to you. But I suspect that there might be other factors here that might influence your study design. Mostly because neurotransmitters are super complicated.
- xenospn 7y ago
  I've never used THC other than smoking or two or three times in my adult life. Tried CBD for a while and honestly could not feel a thing. Felt like I was taking vitamins.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

oblib 7y ago

I have some current experience with my adult daughter suffering with severe anxiety. I started looking for over the counter treatments and found studies that used magnesium glycinate successfully as a treatment and it has worked wonders for her. She takes a 300 mg tab and in 20 minutes she's completely calmed down. It only lasts for about four hours but the effect is amazing. The downside is it can cause diarrhea when taken every four hours but if she eats a couple bananas a day (for the fiber) that's not an issue. She's also been experiencing auditory hallucinations (hearing voices) and I found a study that showed CBD helping with that, so I got her to start taking that too, and it's worked amazingly well for her to deal with that. If it also helps with anxiety that's all the better for her. Her birth mother was diagnosed as schizophrenic about a year after my daughter was born so my daughter is probably dealing with that too, but the drug the doctors gave her mother 35 years ago (haloperidol) didn't work near as well as the magnesium/CBD my daughter is taking and the side effects were vicious. That shit turned her mother into a slobbering zombie. I took my daughter to a mental health facility yesterday to get evaluated and we told them she was taking the magnesium glycinate for anxiety and CBD for "the voices" and they didn't tell her to stop or prescribe any pharmaceutical drugs for her. They just told her to start "Mindful therapy" sessions with a doctor there. I've been smoking herb for about 46 years pretty much daily and have never felt anxious, but I've known a few people who have. I've attributed that to all the reefer madness that's been shoved at us for so long, but it could be it affects some people differently than I and all my herb smoking friends. I don't feel any effects at all from taking CBD, but I don't have any of the symptoms it's used to treat effectively and it could be I have plenty enough in my system from the weed I smoke anyway.

chrstphrhrt 7y ago
Very interesting, I have noticed a major (albeit fun) experience of mania from CBD, followed by extreme rebound anxiety after cessation following a period of taking it for a while. THC-heavy strains on the other hand, seem to have no bad effects.
srik 7y ago
IANAD. The glycerinate does have a better absorption rate but and taking over 300mg a day regularly apparently has the potential for side effects (beside those bowel effects) - at least that's what I've gathered looking into Mg supplements previously.

jaequery 7y ago

The cbd feeling for me is that the breathing gets slower and heavier. This was something I thought you obtain through meditation or other calming exercises but cbd just provides you this feeling within 30 mins. It’s especially nice after sleep. Because it’s those times when you wake up and your breathing have slowed to the point it relaxes you on each breath you know you had a rejuvenating sleep.

jaequery 7y ago
FYI I got my CBD from Apothio.net, they seem to have the highest concentration of terpenes which is key to its effectiveness

chisleu 7y ago

Small study with mostly small doses and better than expected outcomes IMHO. I have several friends using CBD for anxiety and depression (in addition to normal meds.) IMHO, it has profound potential medically. Anecdotal evidence is unreliable, but one close friend of mine started taking doses at my insistence while going through cocaine and heroine withdrawal. It make a profoundly noticeable change in her attitude. I hope that more clinical studies are funded regarding it's use for those matters because a cheap and readily available medicine to help with these symptoms is severely needed to help those seeking to end their addictions would be greatly beneficial to society at large.

mettamage 7y ago
I have the same hope, which is why I posted this. Moreover, I emailed the first author so they would be aware of the discussion here.

superkuh 7y ago

The dosages of CBD used in this study are far, far, too low to have any effect. Just like most CBD dosing in commercial situations. Usually scientific investigation use the actual useful dosages of 300-600 mg in humans. I guess these guys didn't do the required background review beforehand. CBD is not active at the CB1 or CB2 receptors. It has very low affinity for them. It has moderate affinity for the serotonin-1a autoreceptor (that the anti-anxiety medication buspirone also targets). But only at very high dosages (ie, 300mg+). So... this study has only really tested the placebo effect. edit: I finished reading the journal article and it turns out they didn't use clinically relevant doses because it'd cost too much. So they decided to just go the placebo route. >The doses used in this study (25 mg/d to 175 mg/d) were much lower than those reported in some of the clinical literature (300 mg/d to 600 mg/d)12–14,17 for 2 reasons. The first is that in our experience lower doses appear to elicit an adequate clinical response. Second, the current retail cost of CBD would make the use of 600 mg/d cost prohibitive.

pizza 7y ago
Yeah, the cheapest CBD I could find on Google was ~$30/g (pre- tax, shipping, etc). Good luck convincing people to spend $600/mo on their sleep! (I can already hear the HNers coming out of the woodwork to attest to their willingness to do so, how sleep is 1/3rd of your life and so if you're spending < 1/3rd of your income on it you're actually getting a great deal, and how it would actually save them tons of money to sleep a bit better and with a little less anxiety...yada yada.. but the vast majority of people can't do that)
- cneurotic 7y ago
  Ha, your parenthetical definitely anticipated me. If I could RELIABLY score a solid 8 hours every single night, I would call $600/mo steep — but worth it.
  - JimboOmega 7y ago
    Also says something about the general cross section of HN users that $600/mo is "steep but worth it". There a lot of people for whom $600/mo is wildly unaffordable for anything, even essential medical care. (FWIW, I'm with you, if I could wake up well rested every morning, I'd drop $1K/mo or more without a second thought)