30 ms·

Another case of someone discovering, after 10+ years in tech, that code is a liability and you're supposed to solve problems instead of chasing trends and paddi

by dm3 7y ago

Another case of someone discovering, after 10+ years in tech, that code is a liability and you're supposed to solve problems instead of chasing trends and padding the resume. Great that he's spreading the word!

tw1010 7y ago
History is filled with re-discovery and explanation of things that were blindingly obvious to the generation that came before.
- endymi0n 7y ago
  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ― George Santayana "I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive." ― Kurt Vonnegut
  - amelius 7y ago
    There's even an expression for it: reinventing the wheel.
    - enriquto 7y ago
      No, reinventing the wheel is alright; at best you may find a new and better kind of wheel, at worst you'll still learn something. This is forgetting that wheels can be round.
      - pnongrata 7y ago
        Thus, reinventing it, no?
        close04 7y ago
        Learning from the past isn't to prevent you from reinventing the wheel but from reinventing the pothole.
        snthd 7y ago
        Nothing wrong with reinventing potholes... https://www.indy100.com/article/this-man-is-painting-penises-on-potholes-so-the-council-has-to-take-action--ekSuZ63mgW https://www.indy100.com/article/this-man-is-painting-penises...
        close04 7y ago
        Only for those who don't understand the euphemism :). That guy actually learned from past mistakes and avoided reinventing them (methods that never worked). What the original saying is about is pretty clear from the words "condemned" or "doomed" to repeat it (depending on the version). [0] The saying is not about "reinventing the wheel" as in "refining/reinventing something already positive". It's trying to steer people away from major mistakes. Like ones that lead to great human tragedies and loss. Of course, everything can scale, it can affect an individual or the whole world. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I,_Reason_in_Common_Sense https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I,_Reaso...
      - schwurb 7y ago
        Our lifetime is finite. Given the choice, I'd rather invent the car than reinvent the wheel.
        enriquto 7y ago
        It's nice that different people have different interests. I, for one, find materials science fascinating and car engineering rather bland.
    - diroussel 7y ago
      The funny thing about that expression is that wheels have never been reinvented. As far as we know. The Summarians had them, and the technology spread through contract with other civilizations. But not as far as we know re-invented anywhere else.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        I think people at the same epoch living in other continents did reinvent them.
        core-questions 7y ago
        That's independent invention, not re-invention. Reinvention requires that you could conceivably be aware of / be using an existing technology, but instead you choose to create it from scratch yourself.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Fair enough, I guess you're right.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    On an individual level, Vonnegut is wrong. On a societal level, he is right. Santayana is still right.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    "Those who can remember the past are condemned to watch everyone else repeat it." -- I have no idea who originally said this, and DuckDuckGo doesn't seem to be especially helpful in enlightening me on the origin of this particular corollary to Santayana's quote
murgindrag 7y ago
I thought this was one of the best articulations, though. All it needs is a CC-BY-SA license so it can be used outside of one blog.
crispyambulance 7y ago
Code is not "a liability". It is a tool that can be used masterfully or utterly abused. Every craftsman has to invest in their tools. And for someone to truly master their craft they must sometimes hone their tool skills speculatively, without short-term gain, and by sacrificing the time and attention used for other things, like actual projects. If everyone just obeyed their project manager and always focused 100% on the problem at hand, we would be producing sad, boring things. If you want to see what that's like look at enterprise applications.
- freetime2 7y ago
  It may not be sexy, but a good chunk of civilization runs on sad, boring enterprise applications. I for one am proud to build apps that are useful enough that businesses are willing to spend a large amount of effort and money to use them. Even if they are so ugly that they occasionally cause users’ eyeballs to bleed.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  In the real world with limited resources, limited skills, limited budgets and limited brain power, yes code is a liability. Not only a liability, but a liability among other things.
  - jasode 7y ago
    >In the real world with limited resources, limited skills, limited budgets and limited brain power, yes code is a liability. That's an unbalanced conclusion. Code can be a liability but it can also be an asset. Do we have limited resources? Maybe writing new code can help. E.g. In cars, the electronic fuel injectors have computer code determining the optimal amount of gas to inject to minimize fuel usage. Fuel efficiency is improved over older "non-computer-code" carburetors. Computer code is an asset that's equivalent to discovering new proven oil reserves. How about the limited resource of bandwidth on networks? Code and algorithms like h.264/h.265 that shrinks video enough to make it practical to stream to homes maximizes the existing network without having to lay a bunch of new fiber optic cables to every house. And consider all these YC companies that aren't worth much today. How do they become more valuable? They need to write more code. New features that customers find valuable requires coding. Even if the startup's code does not have patents, it will still be part of the tech portfolio assets that the acquiring company will include in the purchase. The "code is a liability" seems to be true if one limits their focus to negative situations like npm leftpad and the Boeing MCAS accidents. In contrast, I don't think the astronauts thought the Apollo Guidance Computer was a liability if it helps them get to the moon.
agumonkey 7y ago
chasing trends is a problem but suffering java <5 too You can deliver so much more, so much safer using other techniques...
- asdfman123 7y ago
  I think it makes sense to keep up with the latest version of the programming language you use, and keep updating the codebase. The important part is not introducing an entirely new language that no one knows, or changing around the entire architecture without really being able to understand the long term consequences. Also, after moving to C#, I don't know why anyone uses plain old Java anymore. C# runs on Linux now. It's not the 90s anymore. Oracle is the dinosaur and MS now is kind to its developers. Plus I'm hoping that client-side C# will take off with WebAssembly.
  - delusional 7y ago
    > The important part is not introducing an entirely new language that no one knows > I don't know why anyone uses plain old Java anymore You see, if we refuse to change, we can't ever get better.
    - asdfman123 7y ago
      Sorry, I meant on new projects. I'm not talking about using the latest and shiniest thing, I mean using C# or Python or some other language. However if youre strongest in Java then you should probably do Java.
  - guitarbill 7y ago
    As a previous fan of C# and a long time Java sufferer, I'm pretty sure it's too little, too late for C#. Sadly, years of being locked to Windows has stunted the C# ecosystem and given Java enough time to get less horrible. Java 8+ is okay. Lombok helps. There's other great, mature libraries around. There's a choice of IDEs. There's JREs to choose from - there's even JVMs to choose from. Gradle makes build files not suck and makes it easy to add static checking and linting to the build process. AFAIK, C# doesn't have auto-formatting options outside the IDE. As much as I used to have your view, Java is alive, works fine, and makes money. Or Minecraft mods.
rb808 7y ago
> you're supposed to solve problems instead of chasing trends and padding the resume Yeah I thought that until I had to look for a new job and my resume just had boring old technology on it. Now I make sure I do some padding!
- tzakrajs 7y ago
  Agree, commenter above you might have thought resumes and interviews are related to the job we ought to be doing and they aren’t.
rolltiide 7y ago
I think the best example of this is IDE and text editor preferences. They are totally regional, programming-language subculture, and age related The proponents of Atom/VSCode/Sublime/VIM etc will swear by it to the level of gatekeeping other competent software engineers away from them if they don't use that particular editor, and they all do - or can do - the same thing.
esoterica 7y ago
No, your mandate is to advance your career, not solve problems. If you’re rewarded for resume padding more than problem solving then keep resume padding.
- ozim 7y ago
  It is nice to be idealistic, but what you wrote is true. Just like people think companies are doing best things for their customers. Companies do what is best for them, and it happens to align with what customers need, sometimes it is better for company to do something that is not good for their customers. The same applies to employees, most of the time what you do aligns with company goals, but when it does not, you have to change job or do something else.

by dm3 7y ago

tw1010 7y ago

History is filled with re-discovery and explanation of things that were blindingly obvious to the generation that came before.

endymi0n 7y ago
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ― George Santayana "I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive." ― Kurt Vonnegut
- amelius 7y ago
  There's even an expression for it: reinventing the wheel.
  - enriquto 7y ago
    No, reinventing the wheel is alright; at best you may find a new and better kind of wheel, at worst you'll still learn something. This is forgetting that wheels can be round.
    - pnongrata 7y ago
      Thus, reinventing it, no?
      - close04 7y ago
        Learning from the past isn't to prevent you from reinventing the wheel but from reinventing the pothole.
        snthd 7y ago
        Nothing wrong with reinventing potholes... https://www.indy100.com/article/this-man-is-painting-penises-on-potholes-so-the-council-has-to-take-action--ekSuZ63mgW https://www.indy100.com/article/this-man-is-painting-penises...
        close04 7y ago
        Only for those who don't understand the euphemism :). That guy actually learned from past mistakes and avoided reinventing them (methods that never worked). What the original saying is about is pretty clear from the words "condemned" or "doomed" to repeat it (depending on the version). [0] The saying is not about "reinventing the wheel" as in "refining/reinventing something already positive". It's trying to steer people away from major mistakes. Like ones that lead to great human tragedies and loss. Of course, everything can scale, it can affect an individual or the whole world. [0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I,_Reason_in_Common_Sense https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana#Vol._I,_Reaso...
    - schwurb 7y ago
      Our lifetime is finite. Given the choice, I'd rather invent the car than reinvent the wheel.
      - enriquto 7y ago
        It's nice that different people have different interests. I, for one, find materials science fascinating and car engineering rather bland.
  - diroussel 7y ago
    The funny thing about that expression is that wheels have never been reinvented. As far as we know. The Summarians had them, and the technology spread through contract with other civilizations. But not as far as we know re-invented anywhere else.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      I think people at the same epoch living in other continents did reinvent them.
      - core-questions 7y ago
        That's independent invention, not re-invention. Reinvention requires that you could conceivably be aware of / be using an existing technology, but instead you choose to create it from scratch yourself.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Fair enough, I guess you're right.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- loco5niner 7y ago
  On an individual level, Vonnegut is wrong. On a societal level, he is right. Santayana is still right.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  "Those who can remember the past are condemned to watch everyone else repeat it." -- I have no idea who originally said this, and DuckDuckGo doesn't seem to be especially helpful in enlightening me on the origin of this particular corollary to Santayana's quote

murgindrag 7y ago

I thought this was one of the best articulations, though. All it needs is a CC-BY-SA license so it can be used outside of one blog.

crispyambulance 7y ago

Code is not "a liability". It is a tool that can be used masterfully or utterly abused. Every craftsman has to invest in their tools. And for someone to truly master their craft they must sometimes hone their tool skills speculatively, without short-term gain, and by sacrificing the time and attention used for other things, like actual projects. If everyone just obeyed their project manager and always focused 100% on the problem at hand, we would be producing sad, boring things. If you want to see what that's like look at enterprise applications.

freetime2 7y ago
It may not be sexy, but a good chunk of civilization runs on sad, boring enterprise applications. I for one am proud to build apps that are useful enough that businesses are willing to spend a large amount of effort and money to use them. Even if they are so ugly that they occasionally cause users’ eyeballs to bleed.
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
In the real world with limited resources, limited skills, limited budgets and limited brain power, yes code is a liability. Not only a liability, but a liability among other things.
- jasode 7y ago
  >In the real world with limited resources, limited skills, limited budgets and limited brain power, yes code is a liability. That's an unbalanced conclusion. Code can be a liability but it can also be an asset. Do we have limited resources? Maybe writing new code can help. E.g. In cars, the electronic fuel injectors have computer code determining the optimal amount of gas to inject to minimize fuel usage. Fuel efficiency is improved over older "non-computer-code" carburetors. Computer code is an asset that's equivalent to discovering new proven oil reserves. How about the limited resource of bandwidth on networks? Code and algorithms like h.264/h.265 that shrinks video enough to make it practical to stream to homes maximizes the existing network without having to lay a bunch of new fiber optic cables to every house. And consider all these YC companies that aren't worth much today. How do they become more valuable? They need to write more code. New features that customers find valuable requires coding. Even if the startup's code does not have patents, it will still be part of the tech portfolio assets that the acquiring company will include in the purchase. The "code is a liability" seems to be true if one limits their focus to negative situations like npm leftpad and the Boeing MCAS accidents. In contrast, I don't think the astronauts thought the Apollo Guidance Computer was a liability if it helps them get to the moon.

agumonkey 7y ago

chasing trends is a problem but suffering java <5 too You can deliver so much more, so much safer using other techniques...

asdfman123 7y ago
I think it makes sense to keep up with the latest version of the programming language you use, and keep updating the codebase. The important part is not introducing an entirely new language that no one knows, or changing around the entire architecture without really being able to understand the long term consequences. Also, after moving to C#, I don't know why anyone uses plain old Java anymore. C# runs on Linux now. It's not the 90s anymore. Oracle is the dinosaur and MS now is kind to its developers. Plus I'm hoping that client-side C# will take off with WebAssembly.
- delusional 7y ago
  > The important part is not introducing an entirely new language that no one knows > I don't know why anyone uses plain old Java anymore You see, if we refuse to change, we can't ever get better.
  - asdfman123 7y ago
    Sorry, I meant on new projects. I'm not talking about using the latest and shiniest thing, I mean using C# or Python or some other language. However if youre strongest in Java then you should probably do Java.
- guitarbill 7y ago
  As a previous fan of C# and a long time Java sufferer, I'm pretty sure it's too little, too late for C#. Sadly, years of being locked to Windows has stunted the C# ecosystem and given Java enough time to get less horrible. Java 8+ is okay. Lombok helps. There's other great, mature libraries around. There's a choice of IDEs. There's JREs to choose from - there's even JVMs to choose from. Gradle makes build files not suck and makes it easy to add static checking and linting to the build process. AFAIK, C# doesn't have auto-formatting options outside the IDE. As much as I used to have your view, Java is alive, works fine, and makes money. Or Minecraft mods.

rb808 7y ago

> you're supposed to solve problems instead of chasing trends and padding the resume Yeah I thought that until I had to look for a new job and my resume just had boring old technology on it. Now I make sure I do some padding!

tzakrajs 7y ago
Agree, commenter above you might have thought resumes and interviews are related to the job we ought to be doing and they aren’t.

rolltiide 7y ago

I think the best example of this is IDE and text editor preferences. They are totally regional, programming-language subculture, and age related The proponents of Atom/VSCode/Sublime/VIM etc will swear by it to the level of gatekeeping other competent software engineers away from them if they don't use that particular editor, and they all do - or can do - the same thing.

esoterica 7y ago

No, your mandate is to advance your career, not solve problems. If you’re rewarded for resume padding more than problem solving then keep resume padding.

ozim 7y ago
It is nice to be idealistic, but what you wrote is true. Just like people think companies are doing best things for their customers. Companies do what is best for them, and it happens to align with what customers need, sometimes it is better for company to do something that is not good for their customers. The same applies to employees, most of the time what you do aligns with company goals, but when it does not, you have to change job or do something else.