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Germany records hottest June temperature
- anigbrowl 7y agoIt's time to stop having conversations with climate denialists.
- ggm 7y agoIt's time for denialist policies to be repudiated and to vote denialist governments out of office
- crispinb 7y agoThey've already won. The driving idea behind denialism was always to delay action for a few decades. Well that worked perfectly. Now they will move on to saying it's all too late for gradual mitigation, and they can swoop in with highly expensive adaptation measures, publicly funded in perpetuity. This stage of rentier/disaster capitalism could be what pushes our global civilisation off the cliff.
- rolltiide 7y ago> to vote sounds like a waste of time a few times per decade the citizens are presented with a few multifaceted people, who will then go on nominate other people its very easy for someone to agree with your foreign policy and disagree with how you expect the government to spend resources on climate change this is an irreconcilable conundrum with the vote
- omegaworks 7y ago> sounds like a waste of time Every degree we can stave off warming will shave billions+ of dollars off impact. People are already migrating to escape climate impact on fragile economies. Communities on atolls are weighing abandoning them entirely[1]. The sea has salted the groundwater on Tuvalu[2]. 1. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/rising-seas-force-marshall-islands-relocate-elevate-artificial-islands/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/risin... 2. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/may/16/one-day-disappear-tuvalu-sinking-islands-rising-seas-climate-change https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/may/16/o...
- omegaworks 7y agoWe'll have to go further than vote. The denialist government has installed a court that has asserted its right to suppress anti-denialist voters. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules-partisan-gerrymandering-is-beyond-the-reach-of-federal-court https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules...
- lucasmullens 7y agoGermany had an all-time hottest June before global warming, too. Also this is a terrible attitude. Talk to people who are misinformed. Don't shun them out of your life.
- crispinb 7y ago> Talk to people who are misinformed. Don't shun them out of your life. At this stage everyone who doesn't accept the seriousness of climate collapse is either a liar (self-interested billionaires who want to make a shitload of money from it) or is clinging to denialism as part of a neurotic identity attachment. They are not remotely amenable to the effects of 'information'. I wouldn't advocate shunning the latter group, but there's no point in engaging with them on the topic either.
- wuliwong 7y agoThis is obviously not true. There are certainly people that are skeptical and do not have their identities attached to "denialism."
- kazinator 7y agoThe question is, have they ever accepted a logical argument backed by rational evidence even if it clashed with their world view?
- crispinb 7y agoThe neurotic attachment is to the political/economic status quo. As they know this is incompatible with dealing with climate collapse, motivated cognition leads them to climate change denialism. This is not remotely 'skepticism', rather a kind of nostalgic credulity.
- livueta 7y ago> At this stage everyone who doesn't accept the seriousness of climate collapse is either a liar (self-interested billionaires who want to make a shitload of money from it) or is clinging to denialism as part of a neurotic identity attachment. I don't think that's entirely true (or, at least, not entirely true in my personal experience). Various folks end up in bubbles of one sort or another where they just never are exposed to good arguments in favor of the theory of anthropogenic climate change. Case in point: the Fox-watching great-uncle I visited a few weekends ago. We ended up having a good talk over some beers and ended with him in a more open-minded if not totally convinced position. One thing he mentioned that stuck with me was that he appreciated being treated like neither a child, a dupe or a provocateur, which is how he'd generally felt in the past when having stupid internet arguments on boomerbook about this topic. Treating everyone who's not on board with a particular social position (and yeah, I'd call this a social position at this point) like they're in that spot for the most nefarious reasons imaginable is a great way of moving them from a possible convert to a die-hard denialist. So, I'd say you may be right about engaging with online trolls, but expanding that logic to people you actually know (and therefore are more likely to be able to influence / are probably not paid shills) is overzealous and possibly counterproductive.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoHow does that help anything?
- dexterdog 7y agoYeah, especially when they have been told to not talk about weather anomalies when they favor the denial argument.
- samiru 7y agoTo me the most voiced people in Hacker News represent a strange mix of logic (engineering) and delusion (group think regarding the climate change). Yes, you can count me as a denialist.
- ars 7y agoNo, it's time to stop being so obsessed with having people "on your team". Stop making climate a "team" thing, with believers, and non-believers (i.e. heretics). What difference does it make if they are on your team? What matter is action, not awareness. And before you say "but the president", Europe is more Left leaning than the US, but I notice nothing different there. Obama was a democrat, and nothing. The president is irrelevant here, he can be on whatever team he liked and it changes nothing. The Paris accord is a joke because it's all words, no action. It specifies absolutely no specific action countries should take, except "have goals". It has no penalty or enforcement either.
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoIt's all of Europe that's crazy hot now. It's a strange kind of heat too, even without the sun beating down on you, the air is so hot and thick, it's like wearing a blanket while breathing soup. However, in Eastern Europe most people installed split AC units in their apartments to counter this but in Western Europe that's not allowed in apartments so if you're at home or working ouside, instead of an air conditioned office, you're gonna cook. Later EDIT: To clarify, you ARE allowed to have AC but due to regulations it's very difficult to get permission for city apartments as it has to be a centralized unit for the whole building with planning to certify that it won't affect the aesthetic of the building or be too loud or hot for the neighbors. If you want a split unit just for your apartment you'll never get permission, so basically, you're not allowed to have one. In EE regulations are lax or don't exist or are not enforced so everyone and their mums has AC.
- billars 7y agoI never knew air conditioners were not allowed in some parts of europe, I don't know of any regulations here in Italy.
- m_mueller 7y agoIn Switzerland it's just not allowed to install central AC with some exceptions AFAIK. But most people rent, so those window installed units aren't really an option either (can't just drill a huge hole for airflow next to a window). Many offices do that nowadays however, work impediment is just too big otherwise.
- camhenlin 7y agoAny reasoning behind central AC not being allowed? Just energy efficiency?
- m_mueller 7y agoUntil a couple of years ago it was IMO not necessary, especially for modern buildings with good isolation. Hot summer was maybe 2-3 weeks. But now I wouldn't say that anymore, but Paris agreement / trying to protect the climate as hard as possible is still more important than this. I do think however that we need to take measures to protect the oldest and youngest inhabitants.
- avocado4 7y agoWent to Germany/Switzerland/France last summer, no AC anywhere - what a misery.
- lloeki 7y agoLast year was a walk in the park compared to this year, especially the recent week. The worst day wasn't even the highest one in temperature. Humidity, wind, air pollution§, and no reprieve during night, the combination makes it incapacitating in much more ways than merely "hot" is. It's like cooking slowly, with hardly a way to ever cool down. § breathing is a very effective active cooling system.
- lm28469 7y agoTbh getting more than 30 degrees in these countries is a 10days/year thing. We just suck it up, ac is expensive and consume huge amount of energy. Most big building have passive climate control that gets the temp 5-7 degrees less than outside and it's more than enough.
- sajithdilshan 7y agoOne thing I've learned so far is that even though it is scorching hot outside, that won't stop the Germans from enjoying the sun.
- matttproud 7y agoIn Switzerland we are getting our first reprieve from the same heat wave now: super-intense thunderstorm cells have formed and are releasing rain across the country. Could not come a moment too soon. The heat was incapacitating, and I write this as someone who grew up in Tornado Alley. If this kind of thing returns with greater frequency or duration, the results will be catastrophic. Dwellings, energy, etc. are not designed here for such extremes.
- Diederich 7y agoClimate change: More frequent/extreme heat waves. More frequent/extreme cold fronts. More frequent/extreme drought. More frequent/extreme heavy rain. More frequent/extreme storms.
- mkr-hn 7y agoThis is basically why "climate change" is coming into fashion to replace "global warming." Warming is the problem, but it manifests in different ways. The same warming that makes worse heat waves also weakens the jet stream and lets the polar vortex move further south.
- elorant 7y agoIn Greece on the other hand this was one of the coolest months I remember in the last couple of decades. We even had rains for multiple days.
- findyoucef 7y agoI was just in Berlin a couple weeks ago. It was brutal. No AC in hotels and 95 degree weather sucks.
- ForHackernews 7y agohttps://rebellion.earth/ https://rebellion.earth/ or this just keeps getting worse.
- crispinb 7y agoIt keeps getting worse regardless. It's only a matter now of how much worse, and how quickly. Many of the leading lights involved with XR are very clear on this, and indeed are working in parallel on 'deep adaptation' (ie. how to manage through the collapse).
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoYou think that's going to stop it from getting worse? It won't.
- cbHXBY1D 7y agoPolitical action is the only thing thing that can address climate change. Since none of us are elected politicians, mass protest (general strike) is our only way of putting pressure on government + industry.
- ForHackernews 7y ago"Stop" is too strong a word. It's too late to stop something that's already happened. So far, we haven't even moved the second derivative in the right direction. Of course, every comment suggesting mass political action on HN gets downvoted in favour of more bloviating about pipe-dream fusion or scifi geo-engineering scenarios.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoMoving the second derivative... yeah, that might actually be a realistic goal.
- cconroy 7y agoWhat is their position on nuclear? I don't see anywhere were there's a plan to replace Oil + Gas + Coal (renewables atm will not come close!). James Hansen has the carbon dividend / tax.[0] This is the only thing that will work imo. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fee_and_dividend
- blondie9x 7y agoToo much traveling. Too much consumption. Not enough minimalism. Not enough contentment. Government promises, minimal actions. I'm not bitter, I'm being realistic. 2018 3rd highest annual mean growth rate in CO2 of all time. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/gr.html https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/gr.html We need to urgently implement solutions now. They are controversial but necessary to protect humanity and keep the planet culpable for future generations. We know we need less people and birth control, less consumption, and a goal of carbon neutrality. How do we get there?
- nabergh 7y agoDo we really need fewer people and less consumption if we have carbon neutrality?
- mutt2016 7y agoIn the end, it'll sort itself out.
- paulintrognon 7y agoWe kind of need fewer consumption if we want to get anywhere near carbon neutrality. We don't have time to invent the future technology that will enable us to replace petrol everywhere. Hell, if that technology was invented already, we don't have enough time to replace our cars anyway. And even if we did, it would emit too much greenhouse gas just to manufacture all the new electric cars. So yeah, in my humble opinion the only solution in the time that we have is, less cars, planes, boats...
- crispinb 7y agoActually yes - climate breakdown is just one of literally thousands of causes of ecosystem collapse. It's the most dramatic, and in many cases (eg. the Great Barrier Reef) it's the coup de grace, but it's 'economic growth' per se that is incompatible with the continued existence of planetary life. Theoretically if human technology could approach the level of sophistication of complex evolved systems (biomimicry) we might achieve a truly circular economy, but that's a long way off. For now, economic growth just physically is the dismantling of ecosystems, and these systems are reaching the limits of their capacity to absorb insults. So, yes, some combination of reduced consumption and/or population will be necessary even if this one issue of climate change is successfully tackled in time (distinctly doubtful at this stage).
- jihadjihad 7y agoJust got done reading about how that freak storm dumped five FEET of hail on Guadalajara, and now this...our planet is in distress
- Diederich 7y agoEarth has a fever: "A fever is a temporary increase in your body temperature, often due to an illness. Having a fever is a sign that something out of the ordinary is going on in your body."
- geodel 7y agoWow! I was think it is India which is particularly receiving climate wrath. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/at-50c-plus-its-tandoori-nights-and-days-in-worlds-hottest-place-churu/articleshow/69669036.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/at-50c-plus-its-ta... For those who are more familiar with Farenheight, 50C is 122F.
- microtherion 7y agoOr Guadalajara, Mexico, which received 6 feet of ice in a hailstorm: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-hail-storm-up-to-6-feet-of-ice-dropped-guadalajara-north-mexico-city-in-summertime-freak-hail-storm-sunday/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-hail-storm-up-to-6-feet-...
- _ph_ 7y agoOn average, June was about 4 degrees Celsius too warm in Germany.
- cyrksoft 7y agohttps://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/#9d48968121cc https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23... Germany is closing nuclear for solar and wind energy. They even generated less energy with more solar panels and turbines for wind energy. They had to use more coal due to closed nuclear plants. France, on the other hand, has more nuclear plants and cleaner and also cheaper energy.
- cyrksoft 7y agoSorry for the spam, but this link is interesting too. There are many TEDx talks on youtube for nuclear energy that analyze this topic. https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-green-dreams-run-into-climate-change-reality-nuclear/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-green-dreams-run-in...
- imtringued 7y agohttps://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share.htm?year=all&source=ren-share&period=annual https://www.energy-charts.de/ren_share.htm?year=all&source=r...
- agumonkey 7y agoanyone worried about crops and yields ?
- thinkingemote 7y agoI speak as a trained environmentalist. These rare extreme weather events are emotive publicity for climate change but they are mainly only just that and are not actually science. It's the meteorological equivalent of a horrific serial killer being used as evidence that crime rates are going up.
- DoubleCribble 7y agoYou sure about that? It seems like most of the hottest European summers on record are all very recent. [0] Interestingly, your chosen example does share some correlation with the rise in temperature. [1] [0]https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/europe-has-had-five-500-year-summers-in-15-years/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/06/europ... [1]https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247781234_Heat_and_Violence https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247781234_Heat_and_...
- dragonwriter 7y agoThis is somewhat true (though the analogy is not), in that it is an event which correlates in frequency with the measure of interest, but where individual occurrences cannot be unambiguously tied to it.
- nikdaheratik 7y agoThe problem is that they aren't as rare as they used to be, and they are pushing the overall average up. If you look at other natural phenomena, like the tide coming in, it comes in waves and each wave is higher than before. You still have moments between each wave, when it seems like it was before, but the change does happen.
- sparkzilla 7y agoSo much confirmation bias. I haven't looked into Germany, but the French heatwave -- which is mentioned in the article -- has almost the same record temperatures as were recorded in 1930, 1870, 1773 and 1718, when, presumably, there was much less CO2. [1] The other day's record-setting France temperature of 115F was recorded in Toulouse, where the temperature rose for one hour above the record set in 1923. Hardly conclusive proof of anything. [2] In Paris, the heatwave's hottest day was 96F. Paris has had 164 days since the year 1900 hotter than that, including seven days over 100F. These extremes are hardly new. Weather is not climate. Stop giving power and money to scaremongering media and politicians. [1] https://realclimatescience.com/2019/06/50c-in-france/ https://realclimatescience.com/2019/06/50c-in-france/ [2] https://realclimatescience.com/2019/06/the-footprint-of-global-warming/ https://realclimatescience.com/2019/06/the-footprint-of-glob...
- nikdaheratik 7y agoThe site you're linking to is junk. Your comments about records ignores the fact that the hottest record setting days are not distributed randomly, but are in fact clustered around the turn of the 21st century. On top of that, the overall science is not solely based on temperature records, but on a number of different phenomena which you completely ignore. TL;DR, the polar ice caps are melting, as predicted by scientists; the intensity of tropical storms is increasing, as predicted by scientists; the average mean temperature has been rising steadly, as also predicted. You fail to account for these things with any alternative theory that fits the facts, and your claim that it is all "scaremongering" is dubious at best. Especially since the world's largest companies are all petrochemical and have an invested interest in creating as much FUD about climate change as possible.
- dwaltrip 7y agoGlobal temperature averages over the past 100+ years: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/ContentWOC/images/decadaltemp/annual_temperature_anomalies_2014.png https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/ContentWOC/images/decadalt... Looking further back, here is reconstructed temperature estimates of the past few thousand years. This additional context shows the dramatic change that is occurring: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years#/media/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past... The evidence really seems as plain as day at this point...
- martincollignon 7y agoWant to make a difference on climate change as a technologist? Feel free to join these communities actively looking for support and with ongoing projects (that are alive): - https://climateaction.tech/ https://climateaction.tech/ - https://techimpactmakers.com/ https://techimpactmakers.com/ - https://www.tmrow.com/ https://www.tmrow.com/
- ForHackernews 7y agoI'm sure these projects have their heart in the right place, but this crisis needs urgent action at the level of national policy. Unless you're able to develop commercial nuclear fusion in the next 5-10 years, the most effective thing you can do is demand action from your political leaders. Individual actions cannot make a dent on a problem of this scale: https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-when-the-hero-is-the-problem/ https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-when-the-hero-is-the-probl...
- drukenemo 7y agoOne thing to note is that climate change is now generally used as synonymous for anthropocentric climate change. I have a hard time debating the issue as there are dissents in the scientific communinity about the anthropocentric climate change and I'm just not qualified to evaluate the matter properly. But I do think it's important to point out that there are issues with this whole "all scientists agree" argument.
- vixen99 7y agohttps://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/29/frances-new-hottest-recorded-temperature-ever-is-in-question-guess-where-it-was-measured/ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/29/frances-new-hottest-r... "But they don’t mention that where it was recorded was next to a concrete drain, and a steel chain mesh fence close to a bitumen (asphalt) highway. So much for only using correctly placed instruments in a Stevenson Screen in a open space away from unnatural heat source. " And this is very far from being an exception.