13 ms·

The whole idea of normal and the basis on which 1:500 and 1:1,000 events are built is starting to feel well past expiry date. We've had no end of them in the 21

The whole idea of normal and the basis on which 1:500 and 1:1,000 events are built is starting to feel well past expiry date. We've had no end of them in the 21st century, whether cat 5 hurricanes, flood, fire or as in this case summers. It's not normal now, it's before we broke it, and normal is starting to sound and feel archaic. After 5 in 15 years, and on course for a sixth, the benchmark looks way off. At what point should it simply become a 1:3 year summer, or just "summer"? How deniers can experience it and keep acting like nothing's happening beats me.

point78 7y ago
You have to consider a majority of deniers either believe it's a "phase" the earth goes through, it's a scam by the liberals or God will fix it.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  I don't know if all Abrahamic religions believe this, but in Islam at least we believe that as we near the end of the world natural disasters will increase greatly, so it seems that the end of humanity and eventually this reality entirely is how God will fix this.
  - dwaltrip 7y ago
    Unless I am misunderstanding something, I would argue that belief is incredibly harmful if it is not true, as it will lead people to avoid trying to solve problems that they may actually be able to solve.
    - mjibson 7y ago
      As a former Mormon, this is exactly correct and scary for that reason. I am ashamed that I used to think this way.
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      I disagree, death for example is inevitable but nonetheless we are commanded to protect life. The inevitable does not exempt a person from doing their best, everyone will be held to account for their actions.
      - dwaltrip 7y ago
        I'm simply saying that if someone believed a disastrous situation was directly caused by a deity, it seems that would be a strong disincentive to actually trying to fix the situation themselves. Why on Earth would anyone work directly against the actions of God, or try to take responsibility for something that God is clearly in charge of? I have seen people use similar logic before, even specifically for climate change.
        faissaloo 7y ago
        >I'm simply saying that if someone believed a disastrous situation was directly caused by a deity satan himself was a creation of God, that doesn't mean we just lie down and indulge all manner of sin. >Why on Earth would anyone work directly against the actions of God, or try to take responsibility for something that God is clearly in charge of? All things that occur, do so by the will of God (i.e: occasionalism). >I have seen people use similar logic before, even specifically for climate change. I'd assume their theology has shaky foundations.
        dwaltrip 7y ago
        Ah ok, I see where you are coming from. Thank you for clarifying that.
        faissaloo 7y ago
        No worries, thanks for giving me the chance to explore this.
- crispinb 7y ago
  On the streets this may be so, but I'm convinced many rich high-profile deniers are simply liars. They're making hay while the sun shines (manageably). They'll have read their Tainter et al, and know the wealthy are likely to be able to buy themselves a plum spot from which to view the collapse. All those super-wealthy Americans weren't (pre-Ardern) snaffling up chunks of New Zealand just because it's pretty.
yjhoney 7y ago
> How anyone can experience it and keep acting like nothing's happening beats me. I look around my workplace, nobody seems to be compelled to change their lifestyle. Nobody seems to mind using a disposable cup every day, buying latest gadgets they don't need, talking about traveling to new places, etc. I bought people on my team reusable coffee mugs to reduce the amount of disposable waste, but inevitably they get too lazy to clean it and they are back on disposable cups.
- konschubert 7y ago
  Using a re-usable cup in the face of climate change is like passing by a burning house, spitting into the fire and feeling good for having helped. We need political action and economic incentives. Individuals changing their lifestyle isn’t going to accomplish anything.
  - zapita 7y ago
    Political action, economic incentives and individual lifestyles are all inter-dependent. We need to acknowledge that at this point, no single action can save us. So using reusable cups may not on its own solve global heating... But neither will any single election, tax or international agreement. Instead of telling each other “what you’re doing is not solving everything therefore it’s useless”, we should be saying “what you’re doing is a good first step, and here are other ideas for doing more”.
    - konschubert 7y ago
      I am worried that people switch to re-usable cups and say: "Well, I've done my part, I'm good."
      - zapita 7y ago
        Yes, I worry about that too. But I also worry about the opposite: reinforcing the cynical idea that it’s all pointless anyway, so why bother doing anything. The way I see it, someone who makes the effort to switch to reusable cups is very likely willing to make another effort. They might just need you to point you in the right direction. For example, the issue of why we make so many non-reusable cups in the first place, where they come from, who has the power to stop them but doesn’t, and how they can be held accountable. Just a suggestion of course! :-)
mythrwy 7y ago
Maybe this is how? (Max time on top chart goes back to 1919) https://tradingeconomics.com/france/temperature https://tradingeconomics.com/france/temperature
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  That's a remarkably unhelpful way of presenting it too. Each year's high and low in the same line so there's no chance of noticing a trend or moving average, without plotting one.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

point78 7y ago

You have to consider a majority of deniers either believe it's a "phase" the earth goes through, it's a scam by the liberals or God will fix it.

faissaloo 7y ago
I don't know if all Abrahamic religions believe this, but in Islam at least we believe that as we near the end of the world natural disasters will increase greatly, so it seems that the end of humanity and eventually this reality entirely is how God will fix this.
- dwaltrip 7y ago
  Unless I am misunderstanding something, I would argue that belief is incredibly harmful if it is not true, as it will lead people to avoid trying to solve problems that they may actually be able to solve.
  - mjibson 7y ago
    As a former Mormon, this is exactly correct and scary for that reason. I am ashamed that I used to think this way.
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    I disagree, death for example is inevitable but nonetheless we are commanded to protect life. The inevitable does not exempt a person from doing their best, everyone will be held to account for their actions.
    - dwaltrip 7y ago
      I'm simply saying that if someone believed a disastrous situation was directly caused by a deity, it seems that would be a strong disincentive to actually trying to fix the situation themselves. Why on Earth would anyone work directly against the actions of God, or try to take responsibility for something that God is clearly in charge of? I have seen people use similar logic before, even specifically for climate change.
      - faissaloo 7y ago
        >I'm simply saying that if someone believed a disastrous situation was directly caused by a deity satan himself was a creation of God, that doesn't mean we just lie down and indulge all manner of sin. >Why on Earth would anyone work directly against the actions of God, or try to take responsibility for something that God is clearly in charge of? All things that occur, do so by the will of God (i.e: occasionalism). >I have seen people use similar logic before, even specifically for climate change. I'd assume their theology has shaky foundations.
        dwaltrip 7y ago
        Ah ok, I see where you are coming from. Thank you for clarifying that.
        faissaloo 7y ago
        No worries, thanks for giving me the chance to explore this.
crispinb 7y ago
On the streets this may be so, but I'm convinced many rich high-profile deniers are simply liars. They're making hay while the sun shines (manageably). They'll have read their Tainter et al, and know the wealthy are likely to be able to buy themselves a plum spot from which to view the collapse. All those super-wealthy Americans weren't (pre-Ardern) snaffling up chunks of New Zealand just because it's pretty.

yjhoney 7y ago

> How anyone can experience it and keep acting like nothing's happening beats me. I look around my workplace, nobody seems to be compelled to change their lifestyle. Nobody seems to mind using a disposable cup every day, buying latest gadgets they don't need, talking about traveling to new places, etc. I bought people on my team reusable coffee mugs to reduce the amount of disposable waste, but inevitably they get too lazy to clean it and they are back on disposable cups.

konschubert 7y ago
Using a re-usable cup in the face of climate change is like passing by a burning house, spitting into the fire and feeling good for having helped. We need political action and economic incentives. Individuals changing their lifestyle isn’t going to accomplish anything.
- zapita 7y ago
  Political action, economic incentives and individual lifestyles are all inter-dependent. We need to acknowledge that at this point, no single action can save us. So using reusable cups may not on its own solve global heating... But neither will any single election, tax or international agreement. Instead of telling each other “what you’re doing is not solving everything therefore it’s useless”, we should be saying “what you’re doing is a good first step, and here are other ideas for doing more”.
  - konschubert 7y ago
    I am worried that people switch to re-usable cups and say: "Well, I've done my part, I'm good."
    - zapita 7y ago
      Yes, I worry about that too. But I also worry about the opposite: reinforcing the cynical idea that it’s all pointless anyway, so why bother doing anything. The way I see it, someone who makes the effort to switch to reusable cups is very likely willing to make another effort. They might just need you to point you in the right direction. For example, the issue of why we make so many non-reusable cups in the first place, where they come from, who has the power to stop them but doesn’t, and how they can be held accountable. Just a suggestion of course! :-)

mythrwy 7y ago

Maybe this is how? (Max time on top chart goes back to 1919) https://tradingeconomics.com/france/temperature https://tradingeconomics.com/france/temperature

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
That's a remarkably unhelpful way of presenting it too. Each year's high and low in the same line so there's no chance of noticing a trend or moving average, without plotting one.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]