11 ms·

Western intelligence hacked Yandex to spy on accounts

188 points by jbegley 7y ago

gloflo 7y ago
'Western' meaning the usual aggressors, the “Five Eyes” intelligence-sharing alliance of the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
- tantalor 7y ago
  Here it's vague enough to be meaningless to the point of irresponsible journalism. WHICH COUNTRY?
  - kss238 7y ago
    The article mentions, that sources could not confirm which nation launched the attack.
- rurban 7y ago
  Not particularly. The last known time a western aggressor hacked into such a Russian intelligence company, Kaspersky, it was revealed to be the Dutch intelligence agency, sharing their info with the US. So it could be any of the 5 eyes or any of their partners.
aswanson 7y ago
Cool.
- strawberryfan 7y ago
  Yes. At least some part of our 'intelligence' is once again focused on our enemies, as opposed to domestic politicians.
  - ggm 7y ago
    enemies we have met the enemy: they is us.
mc32 7y ago
Unsurprisingly Yandex say that this was detected early, no damage was done and no user data was accessed via the hacking. Obviously that rings hollow... but, I wonder, what kind of security protocol do high gov officials in RU use, do they follow better security hygiene than the West? This release coincides with G20 meetings. Intentional or happenstance?
- gbuk2013 7y ago
  Something like this maybe? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts... ;)
  - mc32 7y ago
    Heh. But do they stay true to that protocol?
  - knicholes 7y ago
    I could swear there was something recent I've read about determining which keys are being pushed by hearing the sound of the keyboard...
    - secfirstmd 7y ago
      Yeh it was used many times during the Cold War by both sides.
    - Reelin 7y ago
      Are you thinking of this recent paper about acoustic side channel attacks on smartphones? Hearing your touch: A new acoustic side channel on smartphones (http://arxiv.org/abs/1903.11137 http://arxiv.org/abs/1903.11137)
      - knicholes 7y ago
        Oh wow! This wasn't the one I was talking about, but very cool nonetheless. It's similar, but with keyboards. I hate posting this without evidence, but I think there was also something having to do with watching a plant or a pane of glass vibrate to know what is being said inside a room. The keyboard noise and the vibrations may also be unrelated. If I can find these articles, I'll come back and post them here.
pugworthy 7y ago
Are we at all surprised by this? Really, it's a lot like the allowable amount of insect parts that the US Govt. Food and Drug Administration allows in food. You're shocked a bit to read it, but the truth is you've been living it (and eating it) for some time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels for example for what I mean about "allowable amount of insect parts"
- lemoncucumber 7y ago
  I've heard that people who think they're allergic to chocolate are actually allergic to the cockroaches bits are in most chocolate. Not sure how well proven that is though.
- sprafa 7y ago
  If we weren’t hacking into Yandex, I’d be asking for new chiefs at the intelligence agencies who would. What the heck of the point of an agency if you’re not gathering intelligence?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    What does hacking into Yandex give us other than a reason for Russia to do the same?
    - sprafa 7y ago
      Do you think they don’t?
    - empath75 7y ago
      They are doing the same. Intelligence is dirty business but it has to be done.
      - fwip 7y ago
        Must it be done?
labster 7y ago
One of these days, New Zealand will turn on us, and we will all be speaking Eeenglish and living in hobbit holes.
notthegov 7y ago
In my view, if you’re hacking for espionage purposes as a nation who defends classical liberalism, then I’d argue your actions are justified. I do not understand why sources involved with this (or related stories) would talk to reporters. Despite our flaws, there’s a difference in Russia or China hacking and the US. To suggest otherwise is advocating moral relativism in my opinion. I do, however, support a pardon for Snowden and Assange.
- thrwayxyz 7y ago
  Yes, we need to hack the British for their opposition to the classical liberal position of free exchange of slaves between states.
- gerdesj 7y ago
  Are you having a laugh? "as a nation who defends classical liberalism" Why should: "actions are justified" If you think you hold yourself to a higher purpose, then why not behave as such. I'm not sure what "moral relativism" even means. "there’s a difference in Russia or China hacking and the US" - no, that's bollocks. I'll assert that and stick to it.
  - perfmode 7y ago
    given this persons previous posts, i wouldn’t take what they’re saying too seriously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061936
- astazangasta 7y ago
  Err? So, suggesting a uniform standard that says hacking is bad is advocating moral relativism? There is no end to this "ends justify the means" crap. "Well, we're the good guys, so it's ok for us to torture, depose governments, nuke civilians, fix elections, assassinate foreign leaders, spy on our citizens..." Etc.
  - Veen 7y ago
    It doesn't matter whether "we're" the good guys or even if there are any good guys. Where there are groups with different interests there will always be conflict. Given that there will always be conflict, you can choose to do nothing and be out-competed, you can act in the interest of the group to which you belong, or you can act in the interest of the other side. It's possible to argue that these actions are not, in fact, in the interest of your group, but that has nothing to do with some facile Hollywood conception of international relations as good guys vs. bad guys.
gerdesj 7y ago
No they didn't (lol)
billfruit 7y ago
Kind of ethically dubious to this type of work. There is moral outrage when Google tries to do military contracting, but none against when federal government doing this type of extra-legal actions.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  I expect my government to spy on foreign citizens and governments. If they do something truly terrible like kill civilians or disrupt the natural society of a country I'd have to take a hard look. Google is a private firm and subject to market forces like boycotts over military contracting. It's because governments and Google are two very different things.
  - avs733 7y ago
    And you also rely on them for information as to who is truly terrible.
    - sonnyblarney 7y ago
      "And you also rely on them for information as to who is truly terrible." No, not at all. Thankfully we have many people in press, innumerable sources of information, and a lot of public discourse on these things. Unlike in some regions, where journalists are murdered, sometimes by the state.
      - luckylion 7y ago
        > No, not at all. Thankfully we have many people in press, innumerable sources of information, and a lot of public discourse on these things. That sure helped in Iraq's case. It's not like the press just repeated what the government told it.
      - escanda 7y ago
        You guessed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Couso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Couso
stirfrykitty 7y ago
I'm rather fond of Yandex. They have great engineers and make a solid product. Being Russian doesn't bother me, as I have nothing against the Russians. Yandex search has a fantastic image search that rival most others. And the fact that one does not have to provide a mobile number is a plus.
- piffey 7y ago
  Their reverse image search is beyond anything else out there. It's incredible.
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  Not to mention ClickHouse
- webmobdev 7y ago
  Their search engine is not bad too, and I use it as my primary search engine. They also helpfully provide a link to other search engines so that if you are not satisfied with their search result you can search on the other search engines with just a click. This ensures that they get crucial data (the search query) to improve their search results and also doesn't leave their user disgruntled due to non-relevant search result. On the flip side, they are just as intrusive as Google. When I installed their browser or mail app (don't remember which one) it asked for my ios PIN / password (no ios app ever requires a PIN / password for installation - and no, I am not talking about an iCloud password which is required for app installation if you have enabled it for app installation).
Bakary 7y ago
That's sad. One of the main features of Yandex mail was that your data was reasonably safe from Western intelligence.

188 points by jbegley 7y ago

'Western' meaning the usual aggressors, the “Five Eyes” intelligence-sharing alliance of the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.

tantalor 7y ago
Here it's vague enough to be meaningless to the point of irresponsible journalism. WHICH COUNTRY?
- kss238 7y ago
  The article mentions, that sources could not confirm which nation launched the attack.
rurban 7y ago
Not particularly. The last known time a western aggressor hacked into such a Russian intelligence company, Kaspersky, it was revealed to be the Dutch intelligence agency, sharing their info with the US. So it could be any of the 5 eyes or any of their partners.

aswanson 7y ago

Cool.

strawberryfan 7y ago
Yes. At least some part of our 'intelligence' is once again focused on our enemies, as opposed to domestic politicians.
- ggm 7y ago
  enemies we have met the enemy: they is us.

mc32 7y ago

Unsurprisingly Yandex say that this was detected early, no damage was done and no user data was accessed via the hacking. Obviously that rings hollow... but, I wonder, what kind of security protocol do high gov officials in RU use, do they follow better security hygiene than the West? This release coincides with G20 meetings. Intentional or happenstance?

gbuk2013 7y ago
Something like this maybe? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts... ;)
- mc32 7y ago
  Heh. But do they stay true to that protocol?
- knicholes 7y ago
  I could swear there was something recent I've read about determining which keys are being pushed by hearing the sound of the keyboard...
  - secfirstmd 7y ago
    Yeh it was used many times during the Cold War by both sides.
  - Reelin 7y ago
    Are you thinking of this recent paper about acoustic side channel attacks on smartphones? Hearing your touch: A new acoustic side channel on smartphones (http://arxiv.org/abs/1903.11137 http://arxiv.org/abs/1903.11137)
    - knicholes 7y ago
      Oh wow! This wasn't the one I was talking about, but very cool nonetheless. It's similar, but with keyboards. I hate posting this without evidence, but I think there was also something having to do with watching a plant or a pane of glass vibrate to know what is being said inside a room. The keyboard noise and the vibrations may also be unrelated. If I can find these articles, I'll come back and post them here.

pugworthy 7y ago

Are we at all surprised by this? Really, it's a lot like the allowable amount of insect parts that the US Govt. Food and Drug Administration allows in food. You're shocked a bit to read it, but the truth is you've been living it (and eating it) for some time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels for example for what I mean about "allowable amount of insect parts"

lemoncucumber 7y ago
I've heard that people who think they're allergic to chocolate are actually allergic to the cockroaches bits are in most chocolate. Not sure how well proven that is though.
sprafa 7y ago
If we weren’t hacking into Yandex, I’d be asking for new chiefs at the intelligence agencies who would. What the heck of the point of an agency if you’re not gathering intelligence?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  What does hacking into Yandex give us other than a reason for Russia to do the same?
  - sprafa 7y ago
    Do you think they don’t?
  - empath75 7y ago
    They are doing the same. Intelligence is dirty business but it has to be done.
    - fwip 7y ago
      Must it be done?

labster 7y ago

One of these days, New Zealand will turn on us, and we will all be speaking Eeenglish and living in hobbit holes.

notthegov 7y ago

In my view, if you’re hacking for espionage purposes as a nation who defends classical liberalism, then I’d argue your actions are justified. I do not understand why sources involved with this (or related stories) would talk to reporters. Despite our flaws, there’s a difference in Russia or China hacking and the US. To suggest otherwise is advocating moral relativism in my opinion. I do, however, support a pardon for Snowden and Assange.

thrwayxyz 7y ago
Yes, we need to hack the British for their opposition to the classical liberal position of free exchange of slaves between states.
gerdesj 7y ago
Are you having a laugh? "as a nation who defends classical liberalism" Why should: "actions are justified" If you think you hold yourself to a higher purpose, then why not behave as such. I'm not sure what "moral relativism" even means. "there’s a difference in Russia or China hacking and the US" - no, that's bollocks. I'll assert that and stick to it.
- perfmode 7y ago
  given this persons previous posts, i wouldn’t take what they’re saying too seriously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061936
astazangasta 7y ago
Err? So, suggesting a uniform standard that says hacking is bad is advocating moral relativism? There is no end to this "ends justify the means" crap. "Well, we're the good guys, so it's ok for us to torture, depose governments, nuke civilians, fix elections, assassinate foreign leaders, spy on our citizens..." Etc.
- Veen 7y ago
  It doesn't matter whether "we're" the good guys or even if there are any good guys. Where there are groups with different interests there will always be conflict. Given that there will always be conflict, you can choose to do nothing and be out-competed, you can act in the interest of the group to which you belong, or you can act in the interest of the other side. It's possible to argue that these actions are not, in fact, in the interest of your group, but that has nothing to do with some facile Hollywood conception of international relations as good guys vs. bad guys.

gerdesj 7y ago

No they didn't (lol)

billfruit 7y ago

Kind of ethically dubious to this type of work. There is moral outrage when Google tries to do military contracting, but none against when federal government doing this type of extra-legal actions.

wavefunction 7y ago
I expect my government to spy on foreign citizens and governments. If they do something truly terrible like kill civilians or disrupt the natural society of a country I'd have to take a hard look. Google is a private firm and subject to market forces like boycotts over military contracting. It's because governments and Google are two very different things.
- avs733 7y ago
  And you also rely on them for information as to who is truly terrible.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    "And you also rely on them for information as to who is truly terrible." No, not at all. Thankfully we have many people in press, innumerable sources of information, and a lot of public discourse on these things. Unlike in some regions, where journalists are murdered, sometimes by the state.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      > No, not at all. Thankfully we have many people in press, innumerable sources of information, and a lot of public discourse on these things. That sure helped in Iraq's case. It's not like the press just repeated what the government told it.
    - escanda 7y ago
      You guessed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Couso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Couso

stirfrykitty 7y ago

I'm rather fond of Yandex. They have great engineers and make a solid product. Being Russian doesn't bother me, as I have nothing against the Russians. Yandex search has a fantastic image search that rival most others. And the fact that one does not have to provide a mobile number is a plus.

piffey 7y ago
Their reverse image search is beyond anything else out there. It's incredible.
stareatgoats 7y ago
Not to mention ClickHouse
webmobdev 7y ago
Their search engine is not bad too, and I use it as my primary search engine. They also helpfully provide a link to other search engines so that if you are not satisfied with their search result you can search on the other search engines with just a click. This ensures that they get crucial data (the search query) to improve their search results and also doesn't leave their user disgruntled due to non-relevant search result. On the flip side, they are just as intrusive as Google. When I installed their browser or mail app (don't remember which one) it asked for my ios PIN / password (no ios app ever requires a PIN / password for installation - and no, I am not talking about an iCloud password which is required for app installation if you have enabled it for app installation).

Bakary 7y ago

That's sad. One of the main features of Yandex mail was that your data was reasonably safe from Western intelligence.