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>iOS 13 drops support for the iPhone 5S, 6 and 6+. These iPhones currently account for 17% of my userbase. A shame to see. I like my SE and will own one for as

>iOS 13 drops support for the iPhone 5S, 6 and 6+. These iPhones currently account for 17% of my userbase. A shame to see. I like my SE and will own one for as long as Apple allows, but designers are already forgetting to account for the 320 screen width. I see it with increasing regularity, in apps and on the web. I'd imagine that this will only accelerate once the SE is the only 4" screen left. I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE.

crysin 7y ago
In my experience its more about the screen real-estate more than the ability to use one hand to navigate a phone that drives people to upgrade their phones to the phablet sizes. People don't seem to care that they can't reach everything on their screen with just their thumb.
- Brendinooo 7y ago
  True. I would imagine that people who use phones for gaming and video would really benefit from a bigger screen, but I don't do a ton of either of those on my phone anymore.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  iOS 13 makes improvements to this, with modal popups showing in a "card" style that can be swiped down to dismiss (as long as you're at the top of any scrolling content). That the "Done" buttons in an upper toolbar have persisted for so long after they were reachable is a bit embarrassing. It was a great design for the original 3.5" iPhone screen, started to get iffy on the 4" iPhone 5 depending on how big your hands are, and has been stupid since the iPhone 6 in 2014. There's still other buttons up there, but you can get away without them more often than before. I guess the concession is that phones are assumed to be two handed devices now, which I think is unfortunate. If I want to two-hand something I have an iPad for that. Give me a one-handed phone with the same camera as the flagship. RIP iPhone SE. More on the popover cards here (EDIT better link): https://medium.com/@hacknicity/view-controller-presentation-changes-in-ios-13-ac8c901ebc4e https://medium.com/@hacknicity/view-controller-presentation-...
- auiya 7y ago
  This is especially made clear by app designers who hide all the UI elements of the app in the corners of the screen. If they were truly concerned with ergonomics AT ALL, they would adopt accessibility models such as this - https://medium.com/@mibosc/mobile-ui-ergonomics-how-hard-is-it-really-to-tap-different-areas-of-your-phone-interface-bb043d409af8 https://medium.com/@mibosc/mobile-ui-ergonomics-how-hard-is-...
  - vanadium 7y ago
    I’d _love_ to see an updated version of the linked article.
- vadansky 7y ago
  Don't people know you can double tap the home button and it will move the screen halfway down so you can reach the top buttons? I have no problem using my iPhone 8 one handed using that: https://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/973834 https://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/973834
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    I tried that in an Apple Store with an iPhone X and still couldn't reach the top toolbar buttons. Maybe I have stubby thumbs.
  - asark 7y ago
    I always forget my rarely-used magical gestures/presses. I've had a 7+ for a good long while but only ever trigger that by accident. Couldn't have told you how to do it. Ditto Apple Pay. [EDIT] I think part of why I haven't made it part of my normal use of the phone is that the shift-from-normal-one-handed-grip-to-double-press-home-then-back-again maneuver is risky (of dropping it) enough I'd shy away from it and just use two hands.
usrusr 7y ago
> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans This seems to be a recurring pattern, big-handed people as the last holdouts of the non-gigantic phone screen. Apparently the smaller-handed have given up on single-handed use several phone generations ago, so they have nothing to lose from even bigger phones. (Written with one hand on a way too big XZ2 Compact)
- eqvinox 7y ago
  I'm still on a Z3 compact (4.6" screen, 5" total height) which I use single-handed quite a bit. Decided I would never buy a phone above 5" size, with 4.6~4.7" being my ideal preference. My hands are (to my knowledge) average size, maybe a slight bit on the small side. Really wish more vendors made high-end smartphones below 5"... (I previously used a Z1 compact, and before that a Nexus 4 - loved both.)
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    FWIW 5" bezel-less screens can fit into the same space as a traditional 4.7" phone. Just nobody is willing to make a phone that small any more. You really need to shop by outer dimensions rather than the actual screen size now.
    - pmontra 7y ago
      I do look at outer dimensions and at weight. I try to stay under 130 mm and around 130 g. Very few decent phones are there. The SE for iOS and basically only the Sony Compact line for Android. But the latest model weighs more than 160 g and I can't understand what those extra 30 g are for.
    - donretag 7y ago
      The problem is you cannot even find 5" bezel-less screen phones nowadays. Seems like 5.5" is the minimum.
    - jorvi 7y ago
      But outer dimensions mean zilch for reachability. The dream phone is an iPhone SE with the body shrunk down to a iPhone X style frame.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Ironically, back when all iPhones were small, I longed for a larger screen, in order to more easily browse websites designed for desktops. This is a large reason why I temporarily switched to Android. Now I have a large iPhone, but almost all websites are responsive, so I’ve been thinking I’d like to go back to a smaller phone.
- matwood 7y ago
  > Ironically, back when all iPhones were small People quickly forget that prior to the 6, Apple was getting criticized by not 'innovating' and making larger screen iPhones.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
driverdan 7y ago
Have you tried a larger phone? I have long fingers and found a 5" screen to be the best balance between size and screen real estate. I tried a 6" phone but it was too big.
- Brendinooo 7y ago
  I had an iPhone 6 for awhile, and though I could manage it with one hand, I found it hurt my thumb a bit more, it was harder to grip with the round edges, and bigger in my pocket.
  - chrisfinazzo 7y ago
    You didn't have a case on it, did you? Madness. Sheer madness.
    - Brendinooo 7y ago
      I did have a case on it! But I'm pretty sure I dropped it more than my SE. Maybe the overall size contributed to that, but I've gotta think the rounded edges play a factor, even when a cast gives a bit more grip/thickness.
- sundvor 7y ago
  Using a 6.7" phone now (S10 5G), with size L hands (when buying bike gloves) it's surprising how fine it is to use one handed in general. For typing I do need two hands, but the same was the case for my older smaller phones. I do love the real estate the 6.7" provides me, and am quickly getting used to this as the new standard for myself going forward.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  I'm in exactly the same boat. 6" was too big, and my current phone (Moto x4) is just slightly too big at 5.2". I just want a 5" phone with decent specs, but it seems that phone manufacturers want me to buy a huge screen. I have pretty big hands (L men's gloves are usually just perfect, maybe a little small), and I just can't figure out how all of these small handed people are using phones bigger than mine. I refuse to buy one of those add-on grips since they essentially double the size of the phone, and I don't want to have to use two hands to type.
dangus 7y ago
The 4.7" screen is not the SE. The 4" screen is what's on the SE, 5C, 5S, and 5, and makes up just 11% of these users. Yes, 17% of these users are using the 4.7" screen, which is what's in the 6, 6S, 7, and 8. The iPhone X and XS have a larger screen dimension in inches but the physical size of the phone is roughly the same thanks to a better screen to body ratio. When we see 5 and 6 inch phones, but with higher screen to body ratio, some of us seem to mistake this with a phone that is too large to hold. So what I'm saying is, no, Apple isn't deprecating the 4.7" screen size. Not in any way shape or form. The iPhone 6, 6 Plus, and 5S are being dropped for architectural and performance reasons. The iPod touch just received a refresh and should indicate that Apple will still support the 4" screen size for at least some amount of time. My final piece of advice is to just get a PopSocket, it makes your phone way easier for single hand usage. There's no need to be stuck using a phone as tiny as the iPhone SE. Customers do not prefer it, it was not popular, otherwise we would still see that form factor.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Customers do not prefer it, it was not popular, otherwise we would still see that form factor. Customers loved iPhone SE, both because it was cheap and because of its size.
  - dangus 7y ago
    Customers who bought it loved it. It's an excellent phone. But it was not popular in terms of volume. If you need any evidence of this, just look for Android phones with a screen under 4.5" containing a Qualcomm 825 CPU or better. Actually, try and find any Android phone sold by any US cellular carrier under 5", never mind 4.5". This is not just an Apple-style opinionated decision, the whole market has spoken on this. My honest belief is that people stopped buying small phones when the screen size trade-off didn't save them any significant money. I also believe that some portion of people who are vocal about the inevitable, eventual disappearance of the 4" screen aren't necessarily even using these small phones, but aren't happy about their disappearance out of some kind of principal or nostalgia. I don't know that any of us would agree to use a 15" 1024x768 display again, even if it was free. I think it's the same concept.
cgriswald 7y ago
The only benefit I’ve ever found of a small phone is that it fits better in a pocket. The things I do one-handed on a phone are already well provided for; mostly just scrolling and swiping. For most activities I’m two-handing my phone anyway, and a larger phone makes that easier and faster. When using the phone as, well, a phone, I find smaller phones annoying. I’m never quite sure if the mic can pick up my voice if the earpiece is near my ear. I’m also much more likely to drop the smaller phone. I’ve been this way for a long time. An early phone of mine was the LG Env which opened up and had a large-for-the-time QWERTY keyboard. It required two hands even way back in 200x. I doubt that I’m representative of the average person in this regard. But I doubt you are either. I suspect for most people one-handedness is a desirable trait in a phone, but not as strongly desirable in the average person as it appears to be for you, so it just gets eaten by trade offs.
- CalChris 7y ago
  A smaller phone is less expensive to buy. A smaller phone gets mishandled and dropped less often. Moreover, a smaller phone is less expensive to repair when that happens.
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    I interact with my phone regularly throughout the day. It’s usually the last item I interact with at night (aside from bed, blankets, etc.) and it’s the first item I interact with in the morning. It’s the one item that consistently travels with me wherever I go, whether that means room to room in my own house or state to state on an airplane. So it’s an item I don’t mind spending a little extra on. The cost difference with smaller phones just really doesn’t matter to me; never mind the fact that the larger phones often have better specs in other areas as well. As for dropping, I disagree. I’m way more likely to drop a smaller phone.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  > I find smaller phones annoying. I’m never quite sure if the mic can pick up my voice if the earpiece is near my ear. I’m also much more likely to drop the smaller phone. This is funny because I feel like mic quality has only gotten worse since the days of the Nokia candy bar phone where the mic fell about mid cheek. Maybe it has something to do with the way you had to hold those phones and your hand naturally cupped from the mic around to your mouth. Or the miniature mics in modern phones and thier reliance on noise cancelling with multiple mic arrays.
scorown 7y ago
> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. I believe bigger phones are first computers for a lot of people, and they never graduate to owning a PC.
akuji1993 7y ago
Funnily enough the SE my friends have is the exact reason I always test mobile CSS on the Chrome iPhone SE simulation, since if it fits that screen, it will probably fit the others as well.
rock_artist 7y ago
another iPhone SE user here. I've got it after my Nexus 5X died the first time and I had sometime with a friend's backup iPhone 5. I really wish to see iPhone SE2 with X like screen keeping same dimensions for my hands. :) To be honest, I didn't find larger device more productive and usually when reading something I end up going on some Tablet or my laptop. but maybe that's just me... > I'd imagine that this will only accelerate once the SE is the only 4" screen left. one note though. Apple released new iPod Touch. so there's currently an active 4" product in the iOS eco-system.
wyclif 7y ago
I also have bigger hands than just about everybody down here in SE Asia (I'm from the Anglosphere) and I prefer the iPhone SE/4" form factor. I think Jobs was onto something when he insisted that users should be able to operate the device with one hand, meaning able to reach all the icons on the screen with their thumb.
ericabiz 7y ago
Owning repair shops, I have heard all the reasons people buy bigger phones. The #1 reason people buy a bigger phone is the better camera. They don't necessarily want a larger phone, but they definitely want that camera to take better pictures of their kids/dogs/vacations/spouse/family.
- yborg 7y ago
  That's a very good observation - you make uncorrelated premium features require also getting the larger screen, and then your sales numbers prove that there's a strong demand for large screen devices!
  - eigenvector 7y ago
    Exactly. For years we've had few or zero options to buy even mid-sized phones that aren't gimped in unrelated spec areas like storage, CPU or camera.
- jmmcd 7y ago
  It may be the camera is no better, but photos look better when shown on a bigger screen.
- mikelward 7y ago
  I gave up my Sony XZ1 Compact because its camera was so slow. Nice phone other than that.
paul7986 7y ago
If I can't one handed text and not have to slide the phone up and down in my hand to text I don't want any such phone! My two and coming up on 3 year old iPhone 8 suits me fine. It also has Touch ID, which is a better UX then Face ID (grab phone with primary text hand and boom it's unlocked before seeing your face).
- chrisfinazzo 7y ago
  I worry about this as my 6 is on its second battery and slowly dying. Apple Pay really needs to make the Express Transit feature - where confirmation is already "done" for your selected (read: default) card - available for all transaction types by default. It doesn't solve the unlock delay, but it would make most other things people use FaceID for much quicker.
mch82 7y ago
Apple Watch is the new small phone. It’s still too tethered, but that’s changing and it already holds a signal better than my 5S.
rolltiide 7y ago
There is a swipe down gesture that cuts the screen size in half making one handed operation extremely easy Its like vertical video complaints: 90% of the people are conflating several UX issues to express their disdain, and the remaining 10% have a valid complaint
- brandall10 7y ago
  I had an X for 10 days and used that gesture often. It sucks. Returned it and have been using my 6SE ever since.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    I use the gesture maybe a few times per week
    - brandall10 7y ago
      During the time I had the X I was using it several times a minute. I'm a small guy though with small/medium hands (7.2" wrist to tip of middle finger).
flanbiscuit 7y ago
I've been an Android user since day one but the iPhone 5/SE is my ideal phone size. I currently have the Pixel 2. I don't want a bigger phone. Hopefully in the future a screen that can bend will improve and we can go back to flip phones.
hhunccfing 7y ago
I also have big hands. But I’m getting older and my eyesight isn’t as good as it used to be. So I need to increase the font size. On a larger screen, it works well. On a small screen, it’s way too cramped.
giarc 7y ago
I had an SE and thought the same thing. I bought an X last year and now I could never go back. I think the saying "Don't knock it till you've tried" probably prevails here.
- javagram 7y ago
  I’ve had a larger android phone and went to the SE. I’ll hold on to the SE as long as I can, in fact I wish the 3.5 inch form factor was still an option.
- untog 7y ago
  Everyone is different. I've switched back and forth between an SE and am XS and the SE is the superior experience for me in pretty much every way.
- vanilla_nut 7y ago
  I've had an X, 6S, SE, and Pixel 3a. Used the X/6S/3A for 13 days, 7 months, and 13 days, respectively. Each time I went back to the SE because I didn't think the size was worth the inconvenience while walking/running/using public transit/laying in bed/etc. And this even though each of those devices has nicer specs, a better quality screen, better vibration motor, much better camera, etc... those pros just weren't worth the huge con that is the unwieldy size (to me). So at this point I'm just going to say that not everyone likes the larger size even if they give it a solid try and it comes with other benefits. This applies to other things too: even if a great sandwich is cheaper and more filling than a good salad, some people prefer the salad. Some people like smaller, more spread-out cities where they can drive everywhere; other prefer living in a closet-sized space just so they can walk everywhere. Some people like sedans, others like trucks. Some people like Great Danes, others like Corgis. I just wish smartphone manufacturers would make corgis again.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. My reaction to this quote is to think of everyone without perfect eyesight, e.g. most people as they reach a certain age. My parents love their plus-sized iPhones. Reading glasses + ticking some boxes in iPhones accessibility panel (like ++fontSize) let them participate in the digital world again.
- owl57 7y ago
  Sure. But products targeted even at relatively small groups of mostly non-farsighted people (kids, teens, students) are not uncommon.
- zoom6628 7y ago
  Maybe i missing something but that is what i remain disappointed about in iPhone UX. I cannot find any setting that reliably makes all system font larger to point i can at least read it. Im long sighted and do not wish to reach for my glasses everytime i need to check my phone. And this issue also present on iPads as well - iOS is not friendly to those who are neither blind nor 20/20. Makes me wonder what will happen to Apples share price when they wake one day and realise that all the teenies have gotten old and buying other phones because they cant read iPhones any more. I loved my SE (would buy another one if i could read the thing) while i had it in 2016-2017 but the screen made my eyes go downhill noticeably and the nuisance of carrying multiple pairs of glasses everywhere made me replace it for a Android phone + BigFont app and problem solved. How can such a brilliant company(Im a mac fanboi since late 70s) still be so useless on the mobile device UX?
- nextlevelwizard 7y ago
  There have always been specialized phones for the elderly. Literally no reason why rest of the people should suffer too large devices and I know the struggle. My mother started loosing her eye sight in past 5 years and is not legally blind. At this point even my previous iPhone6+ with max font is of little help only saving feature is speech recognition.
saveferris 7y ago
"I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE." May be mentioned elsewhere in this thread but it likely is diminishing eyesight that drives the bigger displays and not hand size. My wife has small hands but isn't able to see the smaller screens (4") so choses the bigger screen phones. I suspect that's the same choice for a lot of people in their 40s and beyond.
zeku 7y ago
Conversely, I can palm a basketball and used to own an SE. I had to use a version of swype to even be able to text because doing that fine of a motion over and over again with my phone make my thumb hurt. I've switched to an essential phone which I find to be a better size for a one handed phone for myself. I also hated the SE because I found it to be super buggy at the time with the iOS upgrade and it was too small to be used effectively as a GPS and awful compared to slightly bigger phones(think standard iPhone size now, i guess) for media consumption. I am a light user of a phone for someone my age(mid twenties). Phone use is texting, gps, occasional HN and reddit, and occasional discord and youtube. My girlfriend on the other hand has tiny hands and would benefit from a phone the size of an SE, but she's constantly consuming youtube, instagram, pintrest, and other things that rely on media and images that I think are much more suited to a bigger screen despite the need to two hand the phone.
xondono 7y ago
>I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. I can use the XS single handed with no issues. I think most of the difference comes from the way you hold the phone. I rest it on my little finger, and type with the thumb. I can reach the left top (I’m right handed) by just sliding the phone
Eric_WVGG 7y ago
(I assume you mean 3.7" 320x screen; 4" is the 6/7/8 375px) Where do you see this? 320x is still a necessary design goal for 4" screens (6/7/8), as they use 320x layouts for the basis of zoomed/vision-impaired display.
galfarragem 7y ago
> don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. The thing is, a phone (to most people) is not just a phone anymore, it's an entertainment machine and for that screen real estate is crutial. E.g. During commute times, most people watch movies, read or play games on their phone but doing that with a small screen is not confortable. HN demographic is an exception to the rule, mostly males (use phone on pocket) and less prone to use the phone as an entertainment source.
randallsquared 7y ago
> My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, As a bunch of other people have said in different ways, it's not about hand size. Using my phone (other than scrolling or pressing play / pause) with one hand is a minor convenience, and I don't care about dramatically expanding the number of situations in which I can use it one handed. On the other hand, I have an iPhone 8 Plus right now, and I wish the screen was bigger almost every day. There's just not enough room for readably-sized content.

crysin 7y ago

In my experience its more about the screen real-estate more than the ability to use one hand to navigate a phone that drives people to upgrade their phones to the phablet sizes. People don't seem to care that they can't reach everything on their screen with just their thumb.

Brendinooo 7y ago
True. I would imagine that people who use phones for gaming and video would really benefit from a bigger screen, but I don't do a ton of either of those on my phone anymore.
wlesieutre 7y ago
iOS 13 makes improvements to this, with modal popups showing in a "card" style that can be swiped down to dismiss (as long as you're at the top of any scrolling content). That the "Done" buttons in an upper toolbar have persisted for so long after they were reachable is a bit embarrassing. It was a great design for the original 3.5" iPhone screen, started to get iffy on the 4" iPhone 5 depending on how big your hands are, and has been stupid since the iPhone 6 in 2014. There's still other buttons up there, but you can get away without them more often than before. I guess the concession is that phones are assumed to be two handed devices now, which I think is unfortunate. If I want to two-hand something I have an iPad for that. Give me a one-handed phone with the same camera as the flagship. RIP iPhone SE. More on the popover cards here (EDIT better link): https://medium.com/@hacknicity/view-controller-presentation-changes-in-ios-13-ac8c901ebc4e https://medium.com/@hacknicity/view-controller-presentation-...
auiya 7y ago
This is especially made clear by app designers who hide all the UI elements of the app in the corners of the screen. If they were truly concerned with ergonomics AT ALL, they would adopt accessibility models such as this - https://medium.com/@mibosc/mobile-ui-ergonomics-how-hard-is-it-really-to-tap-different-areas-of-your-phone-interface-bb043d409af8 https://medium.com/@mibosc/mobile-ui-ergonomics-how-hard-is-...
- vanadium 7y ago
  I’d _love_ to see an updated version of the linked article.
vadansky 7y ago
Don't people know you can double tap the home button and it will move the screen halfway down so you can reach the top buttons? I have no problem using my iPhone 8 one handed using that: https://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/973834 https://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/973834
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  I tried that in an Apple Store with an iPhone X and still couldn't reach the top toolbar buttons. Maybe I have stubby thumbs.
- asark 7y ago
  I always forget my rarely-used magical gestures/presses. I've had a 7+ for a good long while but only ever trigger that by accident. Couldn't have told you how to do it. Ditto Apple Pay. [EDIT] I think part of why I haven't made it part of my normal use of the phone is that the shift-from-normal-one-handed-grip-to-double-press-home-then-back-again maneuver is risky (of dropping it) enough I'd shy away from it and just use two hands.

usrusr 7y ago

> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans This seems to be a recurring pattern, big-handed people as the last holdouts of the non-gigantic phone screen. Apparently the smaller-handed have given up on single-handed use several phone generations ago, so they have nothing to lose from even bigger phones. (Written with one hand on a way too big XZ2 Compact)

eqvinox 7y ago
I'm still on a Z3 compact (4.6" screen, 5" total height) which I use single-handed quite a bit. Decided I would never buy a phone above 5" size, with 4.6~4.7" being my ideal preference. My hands are (to my knowledge) average size, maybe a slight bit on the small side. Really wish more vendors made high-end smartphones below 5"... (I previously used a Z1 compact, and before that a Nexus 4 - loved both.)
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  FWIW 5" bezel-less screens can fit into the same space as a traditional 4.7" phone. Just nobody is willing to make a phone that small any more. You really need to shop by outer dimensions rather than the actual screen size now.
  - pmontra 7y ago
    I do look at outer dimensions and at weight. I try to stay under 130 mm and around 130 g. Very few decent phones are there. The SE for iOS and basically only the Sony Compact line for Android. But the latest model weighs more than 160 g and I can't understand what those extra 30 g are for.
  - donretag 7y ago
    The problem is you cannot even find 5" bezel-less screen phones nowadays. Seems like 5.5" is the minimum.
  - jorvi 7y ago
    But outer dimensions mean zilch for reachability. The dream phone is an iPhone SE with the body shrunk down to a iPhone X style frame.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

Ironically, back when all iPhones were small, I longed for a larger screen, in order to more easily browse websites designed for desktops. This is a large reason why I temporarily switched to Android. Now I have a large iPhone, but almost all websites are responsive, so I’ve been thinking I’d like to go back to a smaller phone.

matwood 7y ago
> Ironically, back when all iPhones were small People quickly forget that prior to the 6, Apple was getting criticized by not 'innovating' and making larger screen iPhones.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

driverdan 7y ago

Have you tried a larger phone? I have long fingers and found a 5" screen to be the best balance between size and screen real estate. I tried a 6" phone but it was too big.

Brendinooo 7y ago
I had an iPhone 6 for awhile, and though I could manage it with one hand, I found it hurt my thumb a bit more, it was harder to grip with the round edges, and bigger in my pocket.
- chrisfinazzo 7y ago
  You didn't have a case on it, did you? Madness. Sheer madness.
  - Brendinooo 7y ago
    I did have a case on it! But I'm pretty sure I dropped it more than my SE. Maybe the overall size contributed to that, but I've gotta think the rounded edges play a factor, even when a cast gives a bit more grip/thickness.
sundvor 7y ago
Using a 6.7" phone now (S10 5G), with size L hands (when buying bike gloves) it's surprising how fine it is to use one handed in general. For typing I do need two hands, but the same was the case for my older smaller phones. I do love the real estate the 6.7" provides me, and am quickly getting used to this as the new standard for myself going forward.
beatgammit 7y ago
I'm in exactly the same boat. 6" was too big, and my current phone (Moto x4) is just slightly too big at 5.2". I just want a 5" phone with decent specs, but it seems that phone manufacturers want me to buy a huge screen. I have pretty big hands (L men's gloves are usually just perfect, maybe a little small), and I just can't figure out how all of these small handed people are using phones bigger than mine. I refuse to buy one of those add-on grips since they essentially double the size of the phone, and I don't want to have to use two hands to type.

dangus 7y ago

The 4.7" screen is not the SE. The 4" screen is what's on the SE, 5C, 5S, and 5, and makes up just 11% of these users. Yes, 17% of these users are using the 4.7" screen, which is what's in the 6, 6S, 7, and 8. The iPhone X and XS have a larger screen dimension in inches but the physical size of the phone is roughly the same thanks to a better screen to body ratio. When we see 5 and 6 inch phones, but with higher screen to body ratio, some of us seem to mistake this with a phone that is too large to hold. So what I'm saying is, no, Apple isn't deprecating the 4.7" screen size. Not in any way shape or form. The iPhone 6, 6 Plus, and 5S are being dropped for architectural and performance reasons. The iPod touch just received a refresh and should indicate that Apple will still support the 4" screen size for at least some amount of time. My final piece of advice is to just get a PopSocket, it makes your phone way easier for single hand usage. There's no need to be stuck using a phone as tiny as the iPhone SE. Customers do not prefer it, it was not popular, otherwise we would still see that form factor.

saagarjha 7y ago
> Customers do not prefer it, it was not popular, otherwise we would still see that form factor. Customers loved iPhone SE, both because it was cheap and because of its size.
- dangus 7y ago
  Customers who bought it loved it. It's an excellent phone. But it was not popular in terms of volume. If you need any evidence of this, just look for Android phones with a screen under 4.5" containing a Qualcomm 825 CPU or better. Actually, try and find any Android phone sold by any US cellular carrier under 5", never mind 4.5". This is not just an Apple-style opinionated decision, the whole market has spoken on this. My honest belief is that people stopped buying small phones when the screen size trade-off didn't save them any significant money. I also believe that some portion of people who are vocal about the inevitable, eventual disappearance of the 4" screen aren't necessarily even using these small phones, but aren't happy about their disappearance out of some kind of principal or nostalgia. I don't know that any of us would agree to use a 15" 1024x768 display again, even if it was free. I think it's the same concept.

cgriswald 7y ago

The only benefit I’ve ever found of a small phone is that it fits better in a pocket. The things I do one-handed on a phone are already well provided for; mostly just scrolling and swiping. For most activities I’m two-handing my phone anyway, and a larger phone makes that easier and faster. When using the phone as, well, a phone, I find smaller phones annoying. I’m never quite sure if the mic can pick up my voice if the earpiece is near my ear. I’m also much more likely to drop the smaller phone. I’ve been this way for a long time. An early phone of mine was the LG Env which opened up and had a large-for-the-time QWERTY keyboard. It required two hands even way back in 200x. I doubt that I’m representative of the average person in this regard. But I doubt you are either. I suspect for most people one-handedness is a desirable trait in a phone, but not as strongly desirable in the average person as it appears to be for you, so it just gets eaten by trade offs.

CalChris 7y ago
A smaller phone is less expensive to buy. A smaller phone gets mishandled and dropped less often. Moreover, a smaller phone is less expensive to repair when that happens.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  I interact with my phone regularly throughout the day. It’s usually the last item I interact with at night (aside from bed, blankets, etc.) and it’s the first item I interact with in the morning. It’s the one item that consistently travels with me wherever I go, whether that means room to room in my own house or state to state on an airplane. So it’s an item I don’t mind spending a little extra on. The cost difference with smaller phones just really doesn’t matter to me; never mind the fact that the larger phones often have better specs in other areas as well. As for dropping, I disagree. I’m way more likely to drop a smaller phone.
cptskippy 7y ago
> I find smaller phones annoying. I’m never quite sure if the mic can pick up my voice if the earpiece is near my ear. I’m also much more likely to drop the smaller phone. This is funny because I feel like mic quality has only gotten worse since the days of the Nokia candy bar phone where the mic fell about mid cheek. Maybe it has something to do with the way you had to hold those phones and your hand naturally cupped from the mic around to your mouth. Or the miniature mics in modern phones and thier reliance on noise cancelling with multiple mic arrays.

scorown 7y ago

> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. I believe bigger phones are first computers for a lot of people, and they never graduate to owning a PC.

akuji1993 7y ago

Funnily enough the SE my friends have is the exact reason I always test mobile CSS on the Chrome iPhone SE simulation, since if it fits that screen, it will probably fit the others as well.

rock_artist 7y ago

another iPhone SE user here. I've got it after my Nexus 5X died the first time and I had sometime with a friend's backup iPhone 5. I really wish to see iPhone SE2 with X like screen keeping same dimensions for my hands. :) To be honest, I didn't find larger device more productive and usually when reading something I end up going on some Tablet or my laptop. but maybe that's just me... > I'd imagine that this will only accelerate once the SE is the only 4" screen left. one note though. Apple released new iPod Touch. so there's currently an active 4" product in the iOS eco-system.

wyclif 7y ago

I also have bigger hands than just about everybody down here in SE Asia (I'm from the Anglosphere) and I prefer the iPhone SE/4" form factor. I think Jobs was onto something when he insisted that users should be able to operate the device with one hand, meaning able to reach all the icons on the screen with their thumb.

ericabiz 7y ago

Owning repair shops, I have heard all the reasons people buy bigger phones. The #1 reason people buy a bigger phone is the better camera. They don't necessarily want a larger phone, but they definitely want that camera to take better pictures of their kids/dogs/vacations/spouse/family.

yborg 7y ago
That's a very good observation - you make uncorrelated premium features require also getting the larger screen, and then your sales numbers prove that there's a strong demand for large screen devices!
- eigenvector 7y ago
  Exactly. For years we've had few or zero options to buy even mid-sized phones that aren't gimped in unrelated spec areas like storage, CPU or camera.
jmmcd 7y ago
It may be the camera is no better, but photos look better when shown on a bigger screen.
mikelward 7y ago
I gave up my Sony XZ1 Compact because its camera was so slow. Nice phone other than that.

paul7986 7y ago

If I can't one handed text and not have to slide the phone up and down in my hand to text I don't want any such phone! My two and coming up on 3 year old iPhone 8 suits me fine. It also has Touch ID, which is a better UX then Face ID (grab phone with primary text hand and boom it's unlocked before seeing your face).

chrisfinazzo 7y ago
I worry about this as my 6 is on its second battery and slowly dying. Apple Pay really needs to make the Express Transit feature - where confirmation is already "done" for your selected (read: default) card - available for all transaction types by default. It doesn't solve the unlock delay, but it would make most other things people use FaceID for much quicker.

mch82 7y ago

Apple Watch is the new small phone. It’s still too tethered, but that’s changing and it already holds a signal better than my 5S.

rolltiide 7y ago

There is a swipe down gesture that cuts the screen size in half making one handed operation extremely easy Its like vertical video complaints: 90% of the people are conflating several UX issues to express their disdain, and the remaining 10% have a valid complaint

brandall10 7y ago
I had an X for 10 days and used that gesture often. It sucks. Returned it and have been using my 6SE ever since.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  I use the gesture maybe a few times per week
  - brandall10 7y ago
    During the time I had the X I was using it several times a minute. I'm a small guy though with small/medium hands (7.2" wrist to tip of middle finger).

flanbiscuit 7y ago

I've been an Android user since day one but the iPhone 5/SE is my ideal phone size. I currently have the Pixel 2. I don't want a bigger phone. Hopefully in the future a screen that can bend will improve and we can go back to flip phones.

hhunccfing 7y ago

I also have big hands. But I’m getting older and my eyesight isn’t as good as it used to be. So I need to increase the font size. On a larger screen, it works well. On a small screen, it’s way too cramped.

giarc 7y ago

I had an SE and thought the same thing. I bought an X last year and now I could never go back. I think the saying "Don't knock it till you've tried" probably prevails here.

javagram 7y ago
I’ve had a larger android phone and went to the SE. I’ll hold on to the SE as long as I can, in fact I wish the 3.5 inch form factor was still an option.
untog 7y ago
Everyone is different. I've switched back and forth between an SE and am XS and the SE is the superior experience for me in pretty much every way.
vanilla_nut 7y ago
I've had an X, 6S, SE, and Pixel 3a. Used the X/6S/3A for 13 days, 7 months, and 13 days, respectively. Each time I went back to the SE because I didn't think the size was worth the inconvenience while walking/running/using public transit/laying in bed/etc. And this even though each of those devices has nicer specs, a better quality screen, better vibration motor, much better camera, etc... those pros just weren't worth the huge con that is the unwieldy size (to me). So at this point I'm just going to say that not everyone likes the larger size even if they give it a solid try and it comes with other benefits. This applies to other things too: even if a great sandwich is cheaper and more filling than a good salad, some people prefer the salad. Some people like smaller, more spread-out cities where they can drive everywhere; other prefer living in a closet-sized space just so they can walk everywhere. Some people like sedans, others like trucks. Some people like Great Danes, others like Corgis. I just wish smartphone manufacturers would make corgis again.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

> I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. My reaction to this quote is to think of everyone without perfect eyesight, e.g. most people as they reach a certain age. My parents love their plus-sized iPhones. Reading glasses + ticking some boxes in iPhones accessibility panel (like ++fontSize) let them participate in the digital world again.

owl57 7y ago
Sure. But products targeted even at relatively small groups of mostly non-farsighted people (kids, teens, students) are not uncommon.
zoom6628 7y ago
Maybe i missing something but that is what i remain disappointed about in iPhone UX. I cannot find any setting that reliably makes all system font larger to point i can at least read it. Im long sighted and do not wish to reach for my glasses everytime i need to check my phone. And this issue also present on iPads as well - iOS is not friendly to those who are neither blind nor 20/20. Makes me wonder what will happen to Apples share price when they wake one day and realise that all the teenies have gotten old and buying other phones because they cant read iPhones any more. I loved my SE (would buy another one if i could read the thing) while i had it in 2016-2017 but the screen made my eyes go downhill noticeably and the nuisance of carrying multiple pairs of glasses everywhere made me replace it for a Android phone + BigFont app and problem solved. How can such a brilliant company(Im a mac fanboi since late 70s) still be so useless on the mobile device UX?
nextlevelwizard 7y ago
There have always been specialized phones for the elderly. Literally no reason why rest of the people should suffer too large devices and I know the struggle. My mother started loosing her eye sight in past 5 years and is not legally blind. At this point even my previous iPhone6+ with max font is of little help only saving feature is speech recognition.

saveferris 7y ago

"I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE." May be mentioned elsewhere in this thread but it likely is diminishing eyesight that drives the bigger displays and not hand size. My wife has small hands but isn't able to see the smaller screens (4") so choses the bigger screen phones. I suspect that's the same choice for a lot of people in their 40s and beyond.

zeku 7y ago

Conversely, I can palm a basketball and used to own an SE. I had to use a version of swype to even be able to text because doing that fine of a motion over and over again with my phone make my thumb hurt. I've switched to an essential phone which I find to be a better size for a one handed phone for myself. I also hated the SE because I found it to be super buggy at the time with the iOS upgrade and it was too small to be used effectively as a GPS and awful compared to slightly bigger phones(think standard iPhone size now, i guess) for media consumption. I am a light user of a phone for someone my age(mid twenties). Phone use is texting, gps, occasional HN and reddit, and occasional discord and youtube. My girlfriend on the other hand has tiny hands and would benefit from a phone the size of an SE, but she's constantly consuming youtube, instagram, pintrest, and other things that rely on media and images that I think are much more suited to a bigger screen despite the need to two hand the phone.

xondono 7y ago

>I don't get it! My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, and I don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. I can use the XS single handed with no issues. I think most of the difference comes from the way you hold the phone. I rest it on my little finger, and type with the thumb. I can reach the left top (I’m right handed) by just sliding the phone

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

(I assume you mean 3.7" 320x screen; 4" is the 6/7/8 375px) Where do you see this? 320x is still a necessary design goal for 4" screens (6/7/8), as they use 320x layouts for the basis of zoomed/vision-impaired display.

galfarragem 7y ago

> don't think a phone needs to be much bigger than the SE. The thing is, a phone (to most people) is not just a phone anymore, it's an entertainment machine and for that screen real estate is crutial. E.g. During commute times, most people watch movies, read or play games on their phone but doing that with a small screen is not confortable. HN demographic is an exception to the rule, mostly males (use phone on pocket) and less prone to use the phone as an entertainment source.

randallsquared 7y ago

> My hands are probably bigger than 95% of all humans, As a bunch of other people have said in different ways, it's not about hand size. Using my phone (other than scrolling or pressing play / pause) with one hand is a minor convenience, and I don't care about dramatically expanding the number of situations in which I can use it one handed. On the other hand, I have an iPhone 8 Plus right now, and I wish the screen was bigger almost every day. There's just not enough room for readably-sized content.