27 ms·

I started to book two one way plane tickets the other day (with both Eurowings and Ryanair). During both booking processes I saw a messages claiming "seats are

by Tepix 7y ago

I started to book two one way plane tickets the other day (with both Eurowings and Ryanair). During both booking processes I saw a messages claiming "seats are going fast, book now" or something like that. However in the next step of the booking process I was allowed to pick my seat. In both cases, the plane wasn't even 50% full. It's stupid if you make it so transparent to your customers that you are lying to them. PS: I ended up not booking the flight that day, the next day one of the flights was 15% cheaper. :-) PPS: I have my browser configured to delete all cookies when I close it.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
That's fraud. Was this in the UK? I wonder if it was 15% cheaper for you based on a server cookie (eg browser ID and/or IP), like the email offers that come through if you abandon your cart. [Yes I see you delete browser cookies, but fingerprinting works].
- londons_explore 7y ago
  In Europe, it's very rare for flight prices to go down. There is a certain number of seats available at each price point, so they only way price can go down is if cancellations happen. I don't know why airlines don't use a fancier pricing algorithm, but I think the protocol for flight aggregators and travel agents is very primitive, so doesn't allow it.
  - sho 7y ago
    > There is a certain number of seats available at each price point, so they only way price can go down is if cancellations happen. Airline price algorithms (industyy name is Yield Management) can be very complicated and counterintuitive, and differ greatly from airline from airline - your summary is way too simplistic. I have personally observed prices dropping many times - to the extent where I don't think there is all that much value in booking weeks or months in advance, especially on short, high density routes. A huge number of factors go into pricing regimes, and they evolve over time. Getting paid earlier is always better, so prices start low, and based on historical demand. But if the algorithm notices a bump in sales to some specific city on some specific dates - maybe a concert or convention - it will experiment with raising all price buckets, lowering it again if it notices too rapid a falloff. "Common sense" means that a great deal of people try to book their flights maybe 4-6 in advance, so the algorithm will try to ensure a healthy profit during that period, but if demand is unaccountably low for some reason it will often ease off and lower them. I've seen prices drop just in the last few days when evidently they've decided all prudent people have already bought their tickets and are trying to fill the last seats with impulse purchases or bargain hunters. I once had to rebook a flight at the airport after missing it by a few minutes - and the price I paid was less than for the one I missed! Anyway, it's nowhere near as simple as a series of buckets with price tags on them, and hasn't been for 20 years. Hotels, by the way, use comparable systems.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Both conventional wisdom and specific studies I've seen [1] suggest that best fares tend to be somewhere around a couple months in advance. [1] https://www.cheapair.com/blog/2018-airfare-study-the-best-time-to-buy-flights-based-on-917-million-airfares/ https://www.cheapair.com/blog/2018-airfare-study-the-best-ti...
  - shwoopdiwoop 7y ago
    This is not quite accurate. The same seat can have different prices depending on a number of factors such as booking classes, availability rules, fare components, time of booking, OTA mark-downs etc http://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf http://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf gives a good overview what goes into pricing, although said being said it's from 2003 so things have evolved since then.
burnte 7y ago
Just yesterday on Priceline I was told "only 2 rooms left!" at a hotel I stay at frequently on this type of trip. I knew it was BS, and as I clicked through, I had several different types of room to choose from, with no less than 8 rooms of any kind available.
- julianlam 7y ago
  Hey, it could be true. Maybe they only had two honeymoon suites left. Wouldn't your face be red... :)
esoterica 7y ago
Or maybe other people bought flights but didn’t choose a seat? I’m pretty sure all the budget airlines charge extra for that.
travisp 7y ago
Don't both of those airlines make you pay more to select your seat? It's possible they were lying, but it also seems plausible that seats were sold but not assigned yet.
- Tepix 7y ago
  Good point. OTOH the fact the price went down over night indicates that they are having problems filling the plane.

by Tepix 7y ago

pbhjpbhj 7y ago

That's fraud. Was this in the UK? I wonder if it was 15% cheaper for you based on a server cookie (eg browser ID and/or IP), like the email offers that come through if you abandon your cart. [Yes I see you delete browser cookies, but fingerprinting works].

londons_explore 7y ago
In Europe, it's very rare for flight prices to go down. There is a certain number of seats available at each price point, so they only way price can go down is if cancellations happen. I don't know why airlines don't use a fancier pricing algorithm, but I think the protocol for flight aggregators and travel agents is very primitive, so doesn't allow it.
- sho 7y ago
  > There is a certain number of seats available at each price point, so they only way price can go down is if cancellations happen. Airline price algorithms (industyy name is Yield Management) can be very complicated and counterintuitive, and differ greatly from airline from airline - your summary is way too simplistic. I have personally observed prices dropping many times - to the extent where I don't think there is all that much value in booking weeks or months in advance, especially on short, high density routes. A huge number of factors go into pricing regimes, and they evolve over time. Getting paid earlier is always better, so prices start low, and based on historical demand. But if the algorithm notices a bump in sales to some specific city on some specific dates - maybe a concert or convention - it will experiment with raising all price buckets, lowering it again if it notices too rapid a falloff. "Common sense" means that a great deal of people try to book their flights maybe 4-6 in advance, so the algorithm will try to ensure a healthy profit during that period, but if demand is unaccountably low for some reason it will often ease off and lower them. I've seen prices drop just in the last few days when evidently they've decided all prudent people have already bought their tickets and are trying to fill the last seats with impulse purchases or bargain hunters. I once had to rebook a flight at the airport after missing it by a few minutes - and the price I paid was less than for the one I missed! Anyway, it's nowhere near as simple as a series of buckets with price tags on them, and hasn't been for 20 years. Hotels, by the way, use comparable systems.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Both conventional wisdom and specific studies I've seen [1] suggest that best fares tend to be somewhere around a couple months in advance. [1] https://www.cheapair.com/blog/2018-airfare-study-the-best-time-to-buy-flights-based-on-917-million-airfares/ https://www.cheapair.com/blog/2018-airfare-study-the-best-ti...
- shwoopdiwoop 7y ago
  This is not quite accurate. The same seat can have different prices depending on a number of factors such as booking classes, availability rules, fare components, time of booking, OTA mark-downs etc http://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf http://www.ai.mit.edu/courses/6.034f/psets/ps1/airtravel.pdf gives a good overview what goes into pricing, although said being said it's from 2003 so things have evolved since then.

burnte 7y ago

Just yesterday on Priceline I was told "only 2 rooms left!" at a hotel I stay at frequently on this type of trip. I knew it was BS, and as I clicked through, I had several different types of room to choose from, with no less than 8 rooms of any kind available.

julianlam 7y ago
Hey, it could be true. Maybe they only had two honeymoon suites left. Wouldn't your face be red... :)

esoterica 7y ago

Or maybe other people bought flights but didn’t choose a seat? I’m pretty sure all the budget airlines charge extra for that.

travisp 7y ago

Don't both of those airlines make you pay more to select your seat? It's possible they were lying, but it also seems plausible that seats were sold but not assigned yet.

Tepix 7y ago
Good point. OTOH the fact the price went down over night indicates that they are having problems filling the plane.