3 ms·

I’d say the EU lacks capability and likely a legal route to actually do it. The US and UK certainly do. Obama and Trump have both confirmed the use of cyber wea

by wil421 7y ago

I’d say the EU lacks capability and likely a legal route to actually do it. The US and UK certainly do. Obama and Trump have both confirmed the use of cyber weapons in 2 instances against Iran. I think it’s very much a hush hush matter for the US and UK. There’s probably a few stories on HN that the US or UK are actually behind.

C1sc0cat 7y ago
Why would the EU do this its a massive overreach and I say this as a remainer.
- karl_schlagenfu 7y ago
  Because in this case it's a European company being hacked (Ericsson).
  - Angostura 7y ago
    It's a Swedish company.
    - karl_schlagenfu 7y ago
      Sweden is in the European Union.
      - Angostura 7y ago
        Sure, but the bodies that would attempt to push back against this form of attack sit within the nation-state, not the EU.
- pjc50 7y ago
  The EU doesn't really have a military capability of its own, let alone a "cyberwarfare" one. There's no "overreach" going on.
  - cs02rm0 7y ago
    Not all offensive cyber is military, although there's certainly ambition within the EU there. That aside, the EU didn't have a Cybersecurity Agency with legal powers to prevent and respond to cyber threats yesterday. Coincidentally, it does today. Baby steps I'm sure and with the imminent potential withdrawal of a 5 eyes member it isn't unsurprising. So this picture looks to be changing in the future. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2019-0151_EN.html?redirect#BKMD-20 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2019-0151...
mc32 7y ago
Europe will have to push back a lot more against persistent campaigns. This isn’t a one off. It’s persistent. Maybe the EU should leverage NATO or something pan-national because small countries individually fighting off a giant isn’t as effective.
- wil421 7y ago
  The US/UK/EU need to push back hard. They are probably the only places that will actually hold their citizens accountable for cybercrime. Russians and Chinese can hide behind no extradition. The west needs to draw lines, create treaties, create legal definitions and frameworks. It all needs to be done in a very public forum. Not secret courts. If the lines are crossed there needs to be real and serious consequences that aren’t all for show like the recent Russian and Iranian sanctions. For god sakes no limited strikes.
  - adventured 7y ago
    Those Iranian sanctions aren't for show. I don't think the Iranians share your perspective at all. They're brutally crushing the Iranian economy at the moment and causing the regime to lash out aggressively. The Russian sanctions are more reasonably in the for show category by comparison. Their oil output has collapsed by 50%, from roughly 4m barrels per day. Their currency has lost 2/3 of its value versus the dollar and is near record lows. Inflation has skyrocketed, around 30% in 2018 and perhaps 40% in 2019. It's hammering living standards: "In the past 12 months, the cost of red meat and poultry has increased by 57%, milk, cheese and eggs by 37%, and vegetables by 47%, according to the Statistical Centre of Iran." 2019-04-29: "Iran’s economy is expected to shrink for the second consecutive year and inflation could reach 40 percent, an International Monetary Fund senior official said, as the country copes with the impact of tighter sanctions imposed by the United States." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-economy-imf/iran-inflation-could-reach-40-percent-this-year-as-economy-shrinks-further-imf-idUSKCN1S509Q https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-economy-imf/iran-inf... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48119109 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48119109 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/we-are-desperate-economic-crisis-hits-ordinary-iranians https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/we-are-despera... https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iranians-stock-up-as-US-sanctions-damage-Iranian-economy-569143 https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iranians-stock-u...

by wil421 7y ago

C1sc0cat 7y ago

Why would the EU do this its a massive overreach and I say this as a remainer.

karl_schlagenfu 7y ago
Because in this case it's a European company being hacked (Ericsson).
- Angostura 7y ago
  It's a Swedish company.
  - karl_schlagenfu 7y ago
    Sweden is in the European Union.
    - Angostura 7y ago
      Sure, but the bodies that would attempt to push back against this form of attack sit within the nation-state, not the EU.
pjc50 7y ago
The EU doesn't really have a military capability of its own, let alone a "cyberwarfare" one. There's no "overreach" going on.
- cs02rm0 7y ago
  Not all offensive cyber is military, although there's certainly ambition within the EU there. That aside, the EU didn't have a Cybersecurity Agency with legal powers to prevent and respond to cyber threats yesterday. Coincidentally, it does today. Baby steps I'm sure and with the imminent potential withdrawal of a 5 eyes member it isn't unsurprising. So this picture looks to be changing in the future. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2019-0151_EN.html?redirect#BKMD-20 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2019-0151...

mc32 7y ago

Europe will have to push back a lot more against persistent campaigns. This isn’t a one off. It’s persistent. Maybe the EU should leverage NATO or something pan-national because small countries individually fighting off a giant isn’t as effective.

wil421 7y ago
The US/UK/EU need to push back hard. They are probably the only places that will actually hold their citizens accountable for cybercrime. Russians and Chinese can hide behind no extradition. The west needs to draw lines, create treaties, create legal definitions and frameworks. It all needs to be done in a very public forum. Not secret courts. If the lines are crossed there needs to be real and serious consequences that aren’t all for show like the recent Russian and Iranian sanctions. For god sakes no limited strikes.
- adventured 7y ago
  Those Iranian sanctions aren't for show. I don't think the Iranians share your perspective at all. They're brutally crushing the Iranian economy at the moment and causing the regime to lash out aggressively. The Russian sanctions are more reasonably in the for show category by comparison. Their oil output has collapsed by 50%, from roughly 4m barrels per day. Their currency has lost 2/3 of its value versus the dollar and is near record lows. Inflation has skyrocketed, around 30% in 2018 and perhaps 40% in 2019. It's hammering living standards: "In the past 12 months, the cost of red meat and poultry has increased by 57%, milk, cheese and eggs by 37%, and vegetables by 47%, according to the Statistical Centre of Iran." 2019-04-29: "Iran’s economy is expected to shrink for the second consecutive year and inflation could reach 40 percent, an International Monetary Fund senior official said, as the country copes with the impact of tighter sanctions imposed by the United States." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-economy-imf/iran-inflation-could-reach-40-percent-this-year-as-economy-shrinks-further-imf-idUSKCN1S509Q https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-economy-imf/iran-inf... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48119109 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48119109 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/we-are-desperate-economic-crisis-hits-ordinary-iranians https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/we-are-despera... https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iranians-stock-up-as-US-sanctions-damage-Iranian-economy-569143 https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iranians-stock-u...