17 ms·

Earbuds are bad for your hearing

146 points by bra-ket 7y ago

im3w1l 7y ago
The NYC subway is ridiculously noisy. It seems to be concentrated to certain problem spots along the track where the screeching goes out of control. There should be targeted interventions to address them imo.
- suyash 7y ago
  Same for Bay Area BART
- insickness 7y ago
  The screeching is due to very tight track turns. Case in point: the 4/5/6 at 14th street.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  Same for the tube
- BostonEnginerd 7y ago
  Same on the MBTA. https://www.wbur.org/news/2017/05/01/mbta-wheel-squeal https://www.wbur.org/news/2017/05/01/mbta-wheel-squeal
- apta 7y ago
  I wear earplugs when I use the subway, and I recommend that others do as well.
- Anechoic 7y ago
  There should be targeted interventions to address them imo. They are targeted. The issue is that in the end, it's a geometry problem -- in curves, one wheel wants to move faster than the other, which results in one wheel flange being dragged across the railhead. The treatments range from the minor (friction modification such as lubricants or sand) to the major (independent wheels, steerable trucks, wheel/rail dampers) and all have affects on vehicle performance on tangent track, or high costs.
  - hedora 7y ago
    The BART screeches with the worst of them (especially the trans bay tube — you basically can’t hold a conversation in it). I heard from someone that rode it when it was new that it used to be much, much quieter. So, I’m not sure I buy that the current level of screeching is by design, and not due to lack of maintenance.
    - Anechoic 7y ago
      BART's issue is track corrugation, and they've been fighting that for many decades now.
    - saltcured 7y ago
      A confounding factor is that I think they have changed the typical operating speeds in many parts of the BART system over the years. Also, it isn't like the entire system is made up of 40-50 year old, original parts. Train cars, wheels, sections of rail, and maybe even bits of rail-bed have been added to the system, renovated, and/or replaced over the years. Qualitatively, I think that I have experienced similar painful noises in every decade since the late 1970s, when I was a little kid and my father worked for BART. In the early 1990s, I can remember people talking about how they sometimes got a quiet train or a loud train on a familiar commute. We had similar observations about different road surfaces put down by Caltrans. I tend to ride it at least once every 2-3 years during return visits. Also, at various places in the East Bay, weather depending, you can hear the early morning trains on at-grade or above-grade track from quite far away. I have heard very similar noises in recent years when visiting the same places, giving me a nostalgic kick as it sounded so familiar.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    I think you can also cant the track, but I don't know if this is appropriate for a metro system.
  - Doxin 7y ago
    The usual solution to this is gentle curves and conical wheel shapes. In a curve the train tilts slightly causing the wheels on the inside of the curve to run on a smaller diameter of the wheel and the wheels on the outside on a larger diameter. Of course once you have tight turns or cylindrical wheels (wtf BART) you get godawful screeching.
heavymark 7y ago
Or more accurately reworded (but less exciting) loud music is bad for your hearing. Many people choose earbuds that are not isolating intentionally because they want to be aware of their surroundings and thus don't increase the volume to compensate.
- girvo 7y ago
  > Many people... Sure, but the study that's discussed showed that most people don't do that. They do indeed turn the volume up to dangerous levels, mediated by the type of earphones they're using. You and I are not the norm, and so it's something that's worth looking into, no?
- Anechoic 7y ago
  Many people choose earbuds that are not isolating intentionally because they want to be aware of their surroundings and thus don't increase the volume to compensate. That might be true, but I'd bet good money most people chose non-isolating earbuds because they don't know any better (or know of the existence of isolating earbuds).
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sushisource 7y ago
    Additionally, I think the marketing around active noise cancelling has been so good that most people have no clue a good pair of in-ear earbuds can do just as well (without causing the weird artifacting that active cancelling can) passively.
    - sundvor 7y ago
      For the open office, my Sony XM3s are extremely easy to take on and off in an instant - and offer extremely good cancellation, and OK sound quality for programming. My Audio Technica ATH-IM02 earbuds in comparison require very careful positioning, even though it offers far superior quality in a quiet environment.
dsr_ 7y ago
Simplifying: anything which ends up with long-term exposure to high decibel levels is bad for your ears. You can mitigate this by reducing the decibel level. One excellent way of doing this is by blocking out the external sound, so you can listen to the sound you want at a lower level. The easiest way to do that is to use in-ear monitors, IEMs, headphones that go quite deeply into your ears. Using Comply foam tips or silicone triple-flange tips can reduce the outside noise 25-35dB. Alternatively, you can use ear defenders on top of nearly any earphone in existence.
- whymsicalburito 7y ago
  I got custom molded IEMs specifically for this reason when I started working in an open office. They are amazing and are totally comfortable being worn for 8+ hours per day. I highly recommend them!
  - jacobmassey 7y ago
    just curious, which product?
    - cf498 7y ago
      He answered to another post > I went with https://pro.ultimateears.com/home https://pro.ultimateears.com/home and have been really happy with them.
  - ohm 7y ago
    Where did you end up getting them from? I’ve seen a flyer from etymotic a while back https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/custom-fit/ https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/custom-fit/
    - whymsicalburito 7y ago
      I went with https://pro.ultimateears.com/home https://pro.ultimateears.com/home and have been really happy with them. I have a buddy that got some Etymotics and he's really happy with them. Make sure you get a good carrying case for them. I dropped mine when I first got them and had to send them in for repairs. Now I keep them in a pelican case and haven't had any problems. Oh and DO NOT buy the DIY ear mold kits - go to an audiologist and have them do it. It's not worth messing up your ears.
valtism 7y ago
I love my airpods, but this is the reason I also went and bought some noise-cancelling over ear headphones. I'd always have to compromise between hearing what I was playing vs potentially getting hearing damage on my commute.
munk-a 7y ago
The standard Apple earbuds form a terrible seal and encourage people to turn music up louder in order to hear it... I've been sort of idly waiting to see a big class action lawsuit targeting them as people raised when iPods were a thing realize that their hearing is shot.
- ghaff 7y ago
  I suspect many people prefer earphones that aren’t a tight fit. Anecdotally I have wired Bose noise cancelling ear phones I wear in noisy environments like planes. But I prefer AirPods for more routine use. They’re just more comfortable.
deanCommie 7y ago
> “I’m seeing a lot of younger people in their twenties who are coming in with ringing in their ears,” says Sarah Mowry, an assistant professor of otolaryngology at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine. “I think it’s probably related to this all-day earbud use. It’s noise trauma.” Citation needed before we dump another criticism on "milinneals" and their phone obsession. Arw there actually more young people with hearing problems than before? Are loud concerts not a more likely culprit? I know I've been to plenty in my day that led to ringing and clogged ears for a week, and I have super low level tinnitus as a result (I can hear the ringing in very quiet environments but not in day to day life).
- munk-a 7y ago
  I don't read that as a dump on millennials, I read it more as a criticism that the default headphone style has shifted from superaural to poorly fitted earbuds. I definitely think that circumaural are the best you can get without custom fitting but superaural headphones blocked a lot more sound than the apple earbuds... but when iPods came out they pushed those hard as a trendy stylish choice.
  - tiglionabbit 7y ago
    For me it’s not about style but practicality. Headphones are huge. AirPods are tiny. Rubber ear buds make weird squelching sounds when I walk. Apple earbuds are the only thing that works for me.
    - Groxx 7y ago
      Have you tried Comply tips? https://www.complyfoam.com/ https://www.complyfoam.com/ (or any foam tip really) They're at practically every audio store, pretty easy and cheap to try. Personally I love them, and can't stand rubber tips.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- egypturnash 7y ago
SquishyPanda23 7y ago
Here's a PDF of the referenced study on noise levels in subways: https://www.nyneuroslp.com/presspdf/Subway%20and%20Bus%20Noise%20Levels-%20Paper.pdf https://www.nyneuroslp.com/presspdf/Subway%20and%20Bus%20Noi...
iam_nomad 7y ago
it's so simple. when sound driver (origin) reaches closely from drumhead your ear are getting more stress and got damage.
deathanatos 7y ago
Why do we make earbuds that are even capable of causing damage to a person's ear?
Solvitieg 7y ago
One thing that's often overlooked is the noise levels of our streets (or environments more broadly). Often I have to crank-up the volume on my phone because the street I'm walking along is so loud. There are dump trucks, construction work, motorcycles, and buses driving and stopping only a few metres away, it can get loud very suddenly. And I'm not traveling along highways. I live in downtown Vancouver, walking along one-way streets like Hornby. Just something I've noticed recently.
- xeromal 7y ago
  I experience that when riding my motorcycle so I just use ear plugs. That seems risky, but if you lose your hearing, it's basically the same thing.
iam_nomad 7y ago
it is so simple when sound pressure * hour == much stress to your ear. same logic, if sound origin getting much closer from your drumstick, your ears can damage. most worries are it won't be suddenly. the habit using earbuds most hours makes slowly killing your ear. The ear is pretty most impossible to cure. so, keep volume down and use speaker rather than earbuds.
_hardwaregeek 7y ago
I'm very curious on whether Etymotics, with their strong seal and extreme isolation, are actually way better for your hearing. The company was started by Mead Killion, who has worked on hearing loss. But I can't say I've seen a real comparison done between earbuds, headphones (closed and open) and IEMs. There's quite a few questions here, such as: How much isolation is enough? Is there a difference in headphone usage in urban environments versus suburban ones?
- Groxx 7y ago
  Anecdotal and no data to back it up, but I have a pair of Shure IEMs and I love it. I listen at a fairly comfortable level all the time, and usually when I take them out I'm surprised by how loud the world is around me. Seems like that should mean I'm listening at an objectively quieter level than ambient noise.
drilldrive 7y ago
Sounds like the market is ripe for a startup for semi-hearing-aids of sorts.
- graphememes 7y ago
  Airpods can actually be used as hearing aids.
iambateman 7y ago
This problem seems extraordinarily addressable at a tech-level. My iPhone can detect decibel levels, plus it knows that it’s been spitting out 100db for 90 minutes. Why not show a warning? Also the volume on the phone could have a “yellow” and “red” indication to visually show where things start to get too loud. There are lots of hard problems in the world, is this really one of them?
- sahaskatta 7y ago
  The new iOS 13 does this! https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650755/apple-health-app-ios-13-watch-os-cycle-tracking-update-wwdc-2019 https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650755/apple-health-app-...
- CarVac 7y ago
  No way does the phone know how loud the transducers you hook up to it are. Maybe for airpods and earpods, but not anything else hooked up via the dongle.
antognini 7y ago
As a rule of thumb, if you're standing next to a busy street and listening to a podcast, you should not be able to understand what is being said. If you can clearly hear the podcast your volume is too loud.
- gen3 7y ago
  Not necessary. If your earbuds (or IEM's) have really good isolation you should be able to do that at low volume. I have a pair of Shure 215, and they work like earplugs.
  - antognini 7y ago
    Yeah, if you have really good sound isolation then you would need an in-canal SPL measurement. My rule of thumb is assuming the poor sound isolation typical of most earbuds.
thatswrong0 7y ago
I love music, yet I pretty much never listen to it except in a live setting (with earplugs of course!) because I really really don’t want to lose my hearing. I _could_ listen to it all day every day while I work like my coworkers but I know I have a tendency to blast it when I listen to it.. so I just don’t. Kind of sad.
kibibyte 7y ago
Is there a way for the average consumer to measure the sound level output of their earbuds? There's got to be a better way than just seeing if that volume setting causes discomfort; I'm sure I'm already acclimated to higher volumes.
- graeme 7y ago
  iOS 13 is adding this and displaying the data in the health app. Though I think it's just an average headphone level, not moment by moment. Also unsure how they're calibrating it for non-apple headphones, and or AirPods gunned up by earwax.
- ses1984 7y ago
  If you search for decibel meters, you will find some as low as $20, maybe cheaper on ebay. You could split it with some friends/family. You need to simulate making a seal between the meter and the thing you want to measure. You can put the meter through a hole in a piece of foam to measure the sound of regular headphones. For in-ears, I stared with a toilet paper tube and cut it down to a small cylinder and tried to seal the earbud in there. I got one and found that my typical listening levels were within safety threshold, it actually made me confident to sometimes turn up some things a bit louder without worrying. Another thing is comparing what you have to a known reference. The decibel levels of apple ear buds at different volume levels of an iphone are out there if you search. It won't be that accurate but it will give you a general idea. >all the way up and only ten minutes is safe
mirimir 7y ago
I've used earbuds, but don't like them. I mainly enjoy loud music. Metal, punk, electronic like VibeSquad and Bassnectar, and so on. With lots of bass and sub-bass. So I can really feel it. I have a pair of ancient JBL L96s, driven by a clean 100W per channel amp. So with earbuds, I find that I'm always increasing the volume, seeking body-shaking bass that they'll never produce.
- thatswrong0 7y ago
  Love me some Bassnectar too.. a Subpac might help you out with that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Each L96 has an 8" bass reflex woofer. They're very efficient, and get very loud. Maybe too boomy for some, especially in small rooms. But I reduce room resonance with suitably placed cork and high-density foam absorbers. For ad hoc testing, I like to use an An-ten-nae mix that includes a slide down to maybe 20 Hz. I can totally drive a small frame house with that cut.
    - thatswrong0 7y ago
      I've never had a room big enough / isolated well enough to flex a proper soundsystem.. very jealous.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        My office is rather small -- ~3m x ~3m x 2.7m high. So I have the speakers overhead, with their backs ~10cm from the ceiling. So that drives the floor and ceiling more than the walls. And there's far better sound isolation between floors than between units. Still, I can't crank it as much as I could when I lived in a house.
- spiralx 7y ago
  My new earbuds have a clean and fast enough sub response that I can tell exactly when one track is being mixed into the next in a techno mix, just from the sub changing - but after years of using them, that is the first time I can say that! They also produce sub at lower volumes rather than just at max, which means I don't need the volume turned all the way up. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QKZ58XH https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QKZ58XH They're never going to have the same power as larger headphones, but the sound quality has massively improved over the last decade.
greenyouse 7y ago
Beyond the inefficient audio design of the headphones it feels like there should also be a better audio feedback so users are aware of how loud the sound is. Why can't the device read you back the volume level in words when you change the volume so you have an objective measure of how loud the volume is? The computer could say a number 1-10 based on the sound level. It makes sense that older devices wouldn't have this feature but a modern computer or phone should be able to do this without a custom app. On linux you could hack something together to speak the alsa volume level like amixer set Master 2+ && amixer get Master | grep dB | awk '{print $4}' | espeak -s 300 Do other people use something similar?
- blunte 7y ago
  Mobile phones already do this, rather annoyingly. I don't think it's going to help a kid for a device to play nanny. They'll reject the advice like they reject most other advice. Meanwhile, those of us with other devices (such as using a car's aux jack) have to suffer with annoying notices and delays in boosting the volume to 100%.
  - taneq 7y ago
    We got headphones for the kids recently and they're deliberately volume-limited so that even at max volume the sound isn't too loud. It's probably just a resistor in series with the speaker coil, seems like a simple enough solution.
- crazygringo 7y ago
  But your volume level isn't your volume level. Your OS-level volume level is the maximum permitted level. The volume in your ears is that multiplied by the amplitude of what you're listening to. It frustrates me that when I listen to soft passages in classical music, I literally cannot turn the volume up loud enough to hear it because it won't go any higher. But then I hear a system beep and it leaves my ears ringing it's so loud. What I really wish is that dynamic volume equalization would be built in as an option to the OS itself. Then "maximum" might actually be something useful.
blunte 7y ago
What's obviously missing from school is education about actual life concerns - health (including sexual, at least in some countries that pretend that sex doesn't happen), financial, social, etc. It's not difficult to understand that ears are complex and sensitive. Just a little physical education could help illustrate to children that preserving their ears is of some importance. The problem is not non-isolating earphones. The problem is ignorance. Also, I mentioned social education. Regarding non-isolating "earbuds", god help us, please educate people that those not wearing the earbuds probably do not want to hear your crappy music; and if you turn it up loud enough to drown out the ambient noise, then you will be essentially providing a narrow band public performance of whatever you are listening to. Meanwhile, for less than $200 you can have some exceptional Shure in ear headphones that provide pretty flat and efficient response while simultaneously blocking out as much ambient sound as active (more expensive and battery operated) headphones do.
- velp 7y ago
  Agreed, but for most of the country, $200 is an unbelievable amount of money to spend on earbuds. Even among many of my tech friends, the thought of spending more than $30 on a thing that they will inevitably lose or break is stupid. And this is coming from a guy with ~$1000 headphone setup at work..
  - Groxx 7y ago
    Sure, but over-ear headphones and in-ear earbuds start far, far lower than that. Like, "$12 and available at any Walmart" style "far lower". edit: heck, they go down to $5, though I'll definitely grant that in-ear ones were not very common until a few years ago. now they're absolutely everywhere: https://www.walmart.com/ip/In-Ear-Earphones-Wired-Earbuds-Noise-Isolating-Headsets-with-Microphone-Heavy-Deep-Bass-Earphones-Ear-Buds-Fits-for-All-3-5mm-Interface-Device/552979242 https://www.walmart.com/ip/In-Ear-Earphones-Wired-Earbuds-No...
  - arprocter 7y ago
    Airpods are $160 and Shure 215s are $100 on Amazon
- deleted 7y ago
kanokun 7y ago
I would read it if medium would let me. Do many people pay to read on medium.com ?
crazygringo 7y ago
With the wired headphones, Apple offered stock headphones and separately sold in-ear headphones for $79, the sound quality of which was actually pretty amazing. [1] I'm super bummed we're at AirPods 2.0 and still no in-ear option. It's not just an aesthetic choice, it's literally a public health concern, as the article states. I own Bose QC35's and they're great, but they're bulky so I don't always carry them with me the way I can small earphones. I really wish Apple would make in-ear AirPods... I even bought some generic Chinese ones [2] but although they kind of work, they quality isn't anywhere close (in sound quality, in Bluetooth reliability, and size and in construction generally). [1] https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Ear-Headphones-Remote-Mic/dp/B00F96OWNG https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Ear-Headphones-Remote-Mic/dp/B0... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
- cmicali 7y ago
  The BeatsX are as close as you can get right now. Same ease of use/pairing/sound quality, if you can live with the cord in connected the two buds.
  - EricE 7y ago
    Agreed. And I find the cord to be a benefit - if I want to pull the headphones out I can just let them hang around my neck and don't have to fumble with them to put them in a pocket or back into their case.
michaelbuckbee 7y ago
Not mentioned in the article (or so far in the discussion here) are bone-conducting headphones which are great for riding and running. https://www.soundguys.com/bone-conduction-headphones-20580/ https://www.soundguys.com/bone-conduction-headphones-20580/ If I had a long subway commute I'd consider using those and a pair of foam earplugs.
- anonu 7y ago
  I've tried these (not this particular brand) and I did not come away with the same experience. The sound quality is actually pretty atrocious.
  - Groxx 7y ago
    They've improved a LOT from what I tried several years ago... but yea, in no way are they even remotely audiophile/enthusiast-friendly. That said, I'd seriously consider them in some settings, e.g. while biking. Being able to hear your surroundings can be important.
  - euske 7y ago
    The thing is that those headphones are the opposite of noise cancelling (because it is open). But that's the whole point - I want to be aware more of my surroundings than my music, especially when you're in a public space. If you care about the sound quality, I wouldn't recommend it. For the same reason I'm generally hesitant to use a VR headset, as it almost completely blocks your senses. Total immersion is unnecessary to me.
acjohnson55 7y ago
I recommend the TaoTronics TT-EP008s. They're active noise cancelling and only $40. I bought them when I thought I had lost my trusty Bose QC20s. My Bose's were found and returned to me, and I can confirm that the TaoTronics are on par. They sound slightly different, but I don't think most people would identify one or the other as sounding superior. You can also pair them with memory foam tips for better passive isolation, which is complementary to the active noise cancellation (the former works better for high frequencies, and the latter is only effective for low frequencies).
- anonu 7y ago
  Ehh - I've had QC20s for 5+ years and The TaoTronics you suggested for 1+ year. I would disagree that they're on par. The QC20s have way better noise cancellation and the frequency response on them (and most Bose products) is more pleasant to my ear as Bose tends to sound better at the lower frequencies. Yes, the QC20s are 5x the cost - but in this case you get what you pay for.
Causality1 7y ago
You need different ear buds for different tasks. If you're trying to isolate yourself, use in-ear buds. If you need to maintain awareness of your surroundings, use canal-adjacent buds like air pods or sony MDR-J10s. If you're in an especially noisy environment like a party, using a lawnmower or vacuum cleaner, use a pair of Plugfones with a real NRR value.
anonu 7y ago
> do a poor job overpowering noise This is actually exactly why I use AirPods. You can run and bike with them and still have some notion of what's going on around you. When I want to cut out noise, I bust out my trusty QC20s, which actually seal the ear off and reduce plenty of noise, even before you turn them on.
RyanAF7 7y ago
Anything pitched by bullshit "tech" companies is going to be bad for you. How is it that it's taken this long for people to realize these fucking ear buds are bad for you? Who thought, "Oh hey, let's shove a speaker directly into peoples ears so they can hear music louder than otherwise possible and they'll love us for it." Jesus, leave it to the HN microcosm to pick up on something only after the "experts" published a bullshit article. lol
- RyanAF7 7y ago
  But then again, anything to the negative in a way that isn't "kosher" with HN's fucked up overly privileged sensibilities is going to be downvoted lol. WITHIN 1 minute lol. How about one of you dipshits run an algo on how long it takes for non-positive comments to be downvoted and see if it's even possible based on the user base.
  - drdeca 7y ago
    Here's a tip which I find helpful in many forums : If I don't want to be downvoted, avoiding using an abrasive manner when criticizing many of the users is something that seems to help. If you don't mind being downvoted, then one can, of course, disregard that, but if one does, one shouldn't complain about being downvoted afterwards.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    I downvoted you for being ridiculously reductive. Whatever you consider to the the opposite of an ear bud is probably also being pitched by some "tech" company. Even assuming tech companies are overall bad, you're just throwing confirmation bias at the problem.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    Your account seems quite new. You're allowed to be negative on HN. But empty rants will get downvoted. You might be interested in this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9317916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9317916
fortran77 7y ago
I use CIEMs that mechanically block out external sound. I can listen to music at very low levels even in noisy environments. Expensive (mine were ~ $1200 from 64 Audio) but worth it.
rightos 7y ago
I'm not sure why the 2 options being offered here seem to be either Airpod-style non-sealing hard plastic or full on over-ear cans. What about standard IEMs with better sealing silicon tips? Or the foam variants sold by Comply and similar? Wouldn't that better allow you to isolate external noise and listen at a lower volume than the separate cans? Especially for public transit use cases they'd seem to be better, unless I'm missing something? You should also factor in diminished enjoyment - if you're worried about bothering your neighbor by turning up the volume and are just keeping it lower out of courtesy, well, that's not really an ideal scenario either, especially if you have to put up with barely hearing what you're listening to as a result. Additionally, many of the products being suggested here are not really rated very well and would be hard to suggest to someone listening on even using cheap stuff like the Philips TX2. I don't understand how these can be recommended by any reasonable measure. $30 https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsTX2.pdf https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsTX2.pdf A few suggestions from the article, $50 and $200+ https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#617/2085/463 https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#617/2085/463
- keypusher 7y ago
  After using in ear headphones for a few years I started to develop fairly bad ear wax problems. Like, my ears would become completely blocked and I would have to go have them cleaned by a specialist. YMMV but putting things deep into your ear canal isn’t necessarily a good idea.
WalterBright 7y ago
I read when I was young that the top 3 causes of deafness were gunshots, rock concerts, and headphones. Nobody mentioned driving with the window down. Got caught by that.
- toomanybeersies 7y ago
  Unfortunately, I've had a lot of time around all three, plus power tools. Now I'm not even 30 and I have tinnitus.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    Sorry about that. Doc told me there can be a 20 year lag between the damage and the symptoms, much like that for skin damage from the sun.
elchief 7y ago
I tried earbuds back in the day but never liked them. They fall out when I run fast. I greatly prefer airliner pilot over the ear headphones. They sound better, block out more noise, and don't fall off I got some MPOW H5s from amazon. $50. Decent battery life. Bluetooth. Noise cancelling isn't anything to write home about. Sound quality is decent
gumby 7y ago
Gosh, I remember when the walkman came out and the press was full of articles on how this was ruining kids' hearing (and civilization in general to boot). Of particular additional concern was how it blocked out exterior noise. Now we have the panic that these don't block out enough noise, which, sacre bleu!, apparently makes things even worse! Though for what it's worth my hearing's been shot since my late 30s. I suspect loud concerts, gunshots, explosions, and manned rocket launches have been worse.
- colechristensen 7y ago
  BS Industrial Complex is good at selling "bad for you" especially when it's something younger people do more than older people.
m3kw9 7y ago
I imagine plane rides are the worse as that is loud as fk and you will be watching 1-2 movies.
- andrekandre 7y ago
  i used to use in-ear earphones that fit really well and isolated the outside so i could be fine with 30% or less volume even on the train, but they always broke after a few months and finally broke down and got airpods (been using them for about 9 months with no breakage so far) but their fitting is atrocious and i have to use those plastic attachments that hold them in... nevertheless i now have to be careful i never go above 50% volume because of the lack of isolation.... when i’m in an airplane or train... it’s _very_ hard...
mensetmanusman 7y ago
This doesn’t work for everyone, but I can wear air pods under the 3M Peltor hearing protection (what pro Starcraft players use). Let’s me use them while mowing.
nessunodoro 7y ago
take out one earbud. does the other seem drastically loud? turn down the volume until it doesn't. voila. ambient congruence. same goes for lcd brightness. if the screen you're looking at is brighter than a sheet of paper would be, reduce its amplification. i still believe in the power of humanity to reclaim its environmental awareness, and press a button accordingly.
- jagannathtech 7y ago
  I believe in the power of humanity to screw itself and never been let down.
dennisgorelik 7y ago
Earbuds bring dirt with potential infection into listener's ears. That is the main reason why I do not use earbuds.
JofArnold 7y ago
I can’t help wonder if Apple are at least in part behind this increasing awareness of the impact of noise on wellness. It’s known they are releasing active noise cancelling headphones (perhaps this year) and WatchOS 6 has a noise meter as one of the complications...

146 points by bra-ket 7y ago

The NYC subway is ridiculously noisy. It seems to be concentrated to certain problem spots along the track where the screeching goes out of control. There should be targeted interventions to address them imo.

suyash 7y ago
Same for Bay Area BART
insickness 7y ago
The screeching is due to very tight track turns. Case in point: the 4/5/6 at 14th street.
ubercow13 7y ago
Same for the tube
BostonEnginerd 7y ago
Same on the MBTA. https://www.wbur.org/news/2017/05/01/mbta-wheel-squeal https://www.wbur.org/news/2017/05/01/mbta-wheel-squeal
apta 7y ago
I wear earplugs when I use the subway, and I recommend that others do as well.
Anechoic 7y ago
There should be targeted interventions to address them imo. They are targeted. The issue is that in the end, it's a geometry problem -- in curves, one wheel wants to move faster than the other, which results in one wheel flange being dragged across the railhead. The treatments range from the minor (friction modification such as lubricants or sand) to the major (independent wheels, steerable trucks, wheel/rail dampers) and all have affects on vehicle performance on tangent track, or high costs.
- hedora 7y ago
  The BART screeches with the worst of them (especially the trans bay tube — you basically can’t hold a conversation in it). I heard from someone that rode it when it was new that it used to be much, much quieter. So, I’m not sure I buy that the current level of screeching is by design, and not due to lack of maintenance.
  - Anechoic 7y ago
    BART's issue is track corrugation, and they've been fighting that for many decades now.
  - saltcured 7y ago
    A confounding factor is that I think they have changed the typical operating speeds in many parts of the BART system over the years. Also, it isn't like the entire system is made up of 40-50 year old, original parts. Train cars, wheels, sections of rail, and maybe even bits of rail-bed have been added to the system, renovated, and/or replaced over the years. Qualitatively, I think that I have experienced similar painful noises in every decade since the late 1970s, when I was a little kid and my father worked for BART. In the early 1990s, I can remember people talking about how they sometimes got a quiet train or a loud train on a familiar commute. We had similar observations about different road surfaces put down by Caltrans. I tend to ride it at least once every 2-3 years during return visits. Also, at various places in the East Bay, weather depending, you can hear the early morning trains on at-grade or above-grade track from quite far away. I have heard very similar noises in recent years when visiting the same places, giving me a nostalgic kick as it sounded so familiar.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  I think you can also cant the track, but I don't know if this is appropriate for a metro system.
- Doxin 7y ago
  The usual solution to this is gentle curves and conical wheel shapes. In a curve the train tilts slightly causing the wheels on the inside of the curve to run on a smaller diameter of the wheel and the wheels on the outside on a larger diameter. Of course once you have tight turns or cylindrical wheels (wtf BART) you get godawful screeching.

heavymark 7y ago

Or more accurately reworded (but less exciting) loud music is bad for your hearing. Many people choose earbuds that are not isolating intentionally because they want to be aware of their surroundings and thus don't increase the volume to compensate.

girvo 7y ago
> Many people... Sure, but the study that's discussed showed that most people don't do that. They do indeed turn the volume up to dangerous levels, mediated by the type of earphones they're using. You and I are not the norm, and so it's something that's worth looking into, no?
Anechoic 7y ago
Many people choose earbuds that are not isolating intentionally because they want to be aware of their surroundings and thus don't increase the volume to compensate. That might be true, but I'd bet good money most people chose non-isolating earbuds because they don't know any better (or know of the existence of isolating earbuds).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sushisource 7y ago
  Additionally, I think the marketing around active noise cancelling has been so good that most people have no clue a good pair of in-ear earbuds can do just as well (without causing the weird artifacting that active cancelling can) passively.
  - sundvor 7y ago
    For the open office, my Sony XM3s are extremely easy to take on and off in an instant - and offer extremely good cancellation, and OK sound quality for programming. My Audio Technica ATH-IM02 earbuds in comparison require very careful positioning, even though it offers far superior quality in a quiet environment.

dsr_ 7y ago

Simplifying: anything which ends up with long-term exposure to high decibel levels is bad for your ears. You can mitigate this by reducing the decibel level. One excellent way of doing this is by blocking out the external sound, so you can listen to the sound you want at a lower level. The easiest way to do that is to use in-ear monitors, IEMs, headphones that go quite deeply into your ears. Using Comply foam tips or silicone triple-flange tips can reduce the outside noise 25-35dB. Alternatively, you can use ear defenders on top of nearly any earphone in existence.

whymsicalburito 7y ago
I got custom molded IEMs specifically for this reason when I started working in an open office. They are amazing and are totally comfortable being worn for 8+ hours per day. I highly recommend them!
- jacobmassey 7y ago
  just curious, which product?
  - cf498 7y ago
    He answered to another post > I went with https://pro.ultimateears.com/home https://pro.ultimateears.com/home and have been really happy with them.
- ohm 7y ago
  Where did you end up getting them from? I’ve seen a flyer from etymotic a while back https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/custom-fit/ https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/custom-fit/
  - whymsicalburito 7y ago
    I went with https://pro.ultimateears.com/home https://pro.ultimateears.com/home and have been really happy with them. I have a buddy that got some Etymotics and he's really happy with them. Make sure you get a good carrying case for them. I dropped mine when I first got them and had to send them in for repairs. Now I keep them in a pelican case and haven't had any problems. Oh and DO NOT buy the DIY ear mold kits - go to an audiologist and have them do it. It's not worth messing up your ears.

valtism 7y ago

I love my airpods, but this is the reason I also went and bought some noise-cancelling over ear headphones. I'd always have to compromise between hearing what I was playing vs potentially getting hearing damage on my commute.

munk-a 7y ago

The standard Apple earbuds form a terrible seal and encourage people to turn music up louder in order to hear it... I've been sort of idly waiting to see a big class action lawsuit targeting them as people raised when iPods were a thing realize that their hearing is shot.

ghaff 7y ago
I suspect many people prefer earphones that aren’t a tight fit. Anecdotally I have wired Bose noise cancelling ear phones I wear in noisy environments like planes. But I prefer AirPods for more routine use. They’re just more comfortable.

deanCommie 7y ago

> “I’m seeing a lot of younger people in their twenties who are coming in with ringing in their ears,” says Sarah Mowry, an assistant professor of otolaryngology at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine. “I think it’s probably related to this all-day earbud use. It’s noise trauma.” Citation needed before we dump another criticism on "milinneals" and their phone obsession. Arw there actually more young people with hearing problems than before? Are loud concerts not a more likely culprit? I know I've been to plenty in my day that led to ringing and clogged ears for a week, and I have super low level tinnitus as a result (I can hear the ringing in very quiet environments but not in day to day life).

munk-a 7y ago
I don't read that as a dump on millennials, I read it more as a criticism that the default headphone style has shifted from superaural to poorly fitted earbuds. I definitely think that circumaural are the best you can get without custom fitting but superaural headphones blocked a lot more sound than the apple earbuds... but when iPods came out they pushed those hard as a trendy stylish choice.
- tiglionabbit 7y ago
  For me it’s not about style but practicality. Headphones are huge. AirPods are tiny. Rubber ear buds make weird squelching sounds when I walk. Apple earbuds are the only thing that works for me.
  - Groxx 7y ago
    Have you tried Comply tips? https://www.complyfoam.com/ https://www.complyfoam.com/ (or any foam tip really) They're at practically every audio store, pretty easy and cheap to try. Personally I love them, and can't stand rubber tips.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
egypturnash 7y ago

SquishyPanda23 7y ago

Here's a PDF of the referenced study on noise levels in subways: https://www.nyneuroslp.com/presspdf/Subway%20and%20Bus%20Noise%20Levels-%20Paper.pdf https://www.nyneuroslp.com/presspdf/Subway%20and%20Bus%20Noi...

iam_nomad 7y ago

it's so simple. when sound driver (origin) reaches closely from drumhead your ear are getting more stress and got damage.

deathanatos 7y ago

Why do we make earbuds that are even capable of causing damage to a person's ear?

Solvitieg 7y ago

One thing that's often overlooked is the noise levels of our streets (or environments more broadly). Often I have to crank-up the volume on my phone because the street I'm walking along is so loud. There are dump trucks, construction work, motorcycles, and buses driving and stopping only a few metres away, it can get loud very suddenly. And I'm not traveling along highways. I live in downtown Vancouver, walking along one-way streets like Hornby. Just something I've noticed recently.

xeromal 7y ago
I experience that when riding my motorcycle so I just use ear plugs. That seems risky, but if you lose your hearing, it's basically the same thing.

iam_nomad 7y ago

it is so simple when sound pressure * hour == much stress to your ear. same logic, if sound origin getting much closer from your drumstick, your ears can damage. most worries are it won't be suddenly. the habit using earbuds most hours makes slowly killing your ear. The ear is pretty most impossible to cure. so, keep volume down and use speaker rather than earbuds.

_hardwaregeek 7y ago

I'm very curious on whether Etymotics, with their strong seal and extreme isolation, are actually way better for your hearing. The company was started by Mead Killion, who has worked on hearing loss. But I can't say I've seen a real comparison done between earbuds, headphones (closed and open) and IEMs. There's quite a few questions here, such as: How much isolation is enough? Is there a difference in headphone usage in urban environments versus suburban ones?

Groxx 7y ago
Anecdotal and no data to back it up, but I have a pair of Shure IEMs and I love it. I listen at a fairly comfortable level all the time, and usually when I take them out I'm surprised by how loud the world is around me. Seems like that should mean I'm listening at an objectively quieter level than ambient noise.

drilldrive 7y ago

Sounds like the market is ripe for a startup for semi-hearing-aids of sorts.

graphememes 7y ago
Airpods can actually be used as hearing aids.

iambateman 7y ago

This problem seems extraordinarily addressable at a tech-level. My iPhone can detect decibel levels, plus it knows that it’s been spitting out 100db for 90 minutes. Why not show a warning? Also the volume on the phone could have a “yellow” and “red” indication to visually show where things start to get too loud. There are lots of hard problems in the world, is this really one of them?

sahaskatta 7y ago
The new iOS 13 does this! https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650755/apple-health-app-ios-13-watch-os-cycle-tracking-update-wwdc-2019 https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650755/apple-health-app-...
CarVac 7y ago
No way does the phone know how loud the transducers you hook up to it are. Maybe for airpods and earpods, but not anything else hooked up via the dongle.

antognini 7y ago

As a rule of thumb, if you're standing next to a busy street and listening to a podcast, you should not be able to understand what is being said. If you can clearly hear the podcast your volume is too loud.

gen3 7y ago
Not necessary. If your earbuds (or IEM's) have really good isolation you should be able to do that at low volume. I have a pair of Shure 215, and they work like earplugs.
- antognini 7y ago
  Yeah, if you have really good sound isolation then you would need an in-canal SPL measurement. My rule of thumb is assuming the poor sound isolation typical of most earbuds.

thatswrong0 7y ago

I love music, yet I pretty much never listen to it except in a live setting (with earplugs of course!) because I really really don’t want to lose my hearing. I _could_ listen to it all day every day while I work like my coworkers but I know I have a tendency to blast it when I listen to it.. so I just don’t. Kind of sad.

kibibyte 7y ago

Is there a way for the average consumer to measure the sound level output of their earbuds? There's got to be a better way than just seeing if that volume setting causes discomfort; I'm sure I'm already acclimated to higher volumes.

graeme 7y ago
iOS 13 is adding this and displaying the data in the health app. Though I think it's just an average headphone level, not moment by moment. Also unsure how they're calibrating it for non-apple headphones, and or AirPods gunned up by earwax.
ses1984 7y ago
If you search for decibel meters, you will find some as low as $20, maybe cheaper on ebay. You could split it with some friends/family. You need to simulate making a seal between the meter and the thing you want to measure. You can put the meter through a hole in a piece of foam to measure the sound of regular headphones. For in-ears, I stared with a toilet paper tube and cut it down to a small cylinder and tried to seal the earbud in there. I got one and found that my typical listening levels were within safety threshold, it actually made me confident to sometimes turn up some things a bit louder without worrying. Another thing is comparing what you have to a known reference. The decibel levels of apple ear buds at different volume levels of an iphone are out there if you search. It won't be that accurate but it will give you a general idea. >all the way up and only ten minutes is safe

mirimir 7y ago

I've used earbuds, but don't like them. I mainly enjoy loud music. Metal, punk, electronic like VibeSquad and Bassnectar, and so on. With lots of bass and sub-bass. So I can really feel it. I have a pair of ancient JBL L96s, driven by a clean 100W per channel amp. So with earbuds, I find that I'm always increasing the volume, seeking body-shaking bass that they'll never produce.

thatswrong0 7y ago
Love me some Bassnectar too.. a Subpac might help you out with that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- mirimir 7y ago
  Each L96 has an 8" bass reflex woofer. They're very efficient, and get very loud. Maybe too boomy for some, especially in small rooms. But I reduce room resonance with suitably placed cork and high-density foam absorbers. For ad hoc testing, I like to use an An-ten-nae mix that includes a slide down to maybe 20 Hz. I can totally drive a small frame house with that cut.
  - thatswrong0 7y ago
    I've never had a room big enough / isolated well enough to flex a proper soundsystem.. very jealous.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      My office is rather small -- ~3m x ~3m x 2.7m high. So I have the speakers overhead, with their backs ~10cm from the ceiling. So that drives the floor and ceiling more than the walls. And there's far better sound isolation between floors than between units. Still, I can't crank it as much as I could when I lived in a house.
spiralx 7y ago
My new earbuds have a clean and fast enough sub response that I can tell exactly when one track is being mixed into the next in a techno mix, just from the sub changing - but after years of using them, that is the first time I can say that! They also produce sub at lower volumes rather than just at max, which means I don't need the volume turned all the way up. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QKZ58XH https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QKZ58XH They're never going to have the same power as larger headphones, but the sound quality has massively improved over the last decade.

greenyouse 7y ago

Beyond the inefficient audio design of the headphones it feels like there should also be a better audio feedback so users are aware of how loud the sound is. Why can't the device read you back the volume level in words when you change the volume so you have an objective measure of how loud the volume is? The computer could say a number 1-10 based on the sound level. It makes sense that older devices wouldn't have this feature but a modern computer or phone should be able to do this without a custom app. On linux you could hack something together to speak the alsa volume level like amixer set Master 2+ && amixer get Master | grep dB | awk '{print $4}' | espeak -s 300 Do other people use something similar?

blunte 7y ago
Mobile phones already do this, rather annoyingly. I don't think it's going to help a kid for a device to play nanny. They'll reject the advice like they reject most other advice. Meanwhile, those of us with other devices (such as using a car's aux jack) have to suffer with annoying notices and delays in boosting the volume to 100%.
- taneq 7y ago
  We got headphones for the kids recently and they're deliberately volume-limited so that even at max volume the sound isn't too loud. It's probably just a resistor in series with the speaker coil, seems like a simple enough solution.
crazygringo 7y ago
But your volume level isn't your volume level. Your OS-level volume level is the maximum permitted level. The volume in your ears is that multiplied by the amplitude of what you're listening to. It frustrates me that when I listen to soft passages in classical music, I literally cannot turn the volume up loud enough to hear it because it won't go any higher. But then I hear a system beep and it leaves my ears ringing it's so loud. What I really wish is that dynamic volume equalization would be built in as an option to the OS itself. Then "maximum" might actually be something useful.

blunte 7y ago

What's obviously missing from school is education about actual life concerns - health (including sexual, at least in some countries that pretend that sex doesn't happen), financial, social, etc. It's not difficult to understand that ears are complex and sensitive. Just a little physical education could help illustrate to children that preserving their ears is of some importance. The problem is not non-isolating earphones. The problem is ignorance. Also, I mentioned social education. Regarding non-isolating "earbuds", god help us, please educate people that those not wearing the earbuds probably do not want to hear your crappy music; and if you turn it up loud enough to drown out the ambient noise, then you will be essentially providing a narrow band public performance of whatever you are listening to. Meanwhile, for less than $200 you can have some exceptional Shure in ear headphones that provide pretty flat and efficient response while simultaneously blocking out as much ambient sound as active (more expensive and battery operated) headphones do.

velp 7y ago
Agreed, but for most of the country, $200 is an unbelievable amount of money to spend on earbuds. Even among many of my tech friends, the thought of spending more than $30 on a thing that they will inevitably lose or break is stupid. And this is coming from a guy with ~$1000 headphone setup at work..
- Groxx 7y ago
  Sure, but over-ear headphones and in-ear earbuds start far, far lower than that. Like, "$12 and available at any Walmart" style "far lower". edit: heck, they go down to $5, though I'll definitely grant that in-ear ones were not very common until a few years ago. now they're absolutely everywhere: https://www.walmart.com/ip/In-Ear-Earphones-Wired-Earbuds-Noise-Isolating-Headsets-with-Microphone-Heavy-Deep-Bass-Earphones-Ear-Buds-Fits-for-All-3-5mm-Interface-Device/552979242 https://www.walmart.com/ip/In-Ear-Earphones-Wired-Earbuds-No...
- arprocter 7y ago
  Airpods are $160 and Shure 215s are $100 on Amazon
deleted 7y ago

kanokun 7y ago

I would read it if medium would let me. Do many people pay to read on medium.com ?

crazygringo 7y ago

With the wired headphones, Apple offered stock headphones and separately sold in-ear headphones for $79, the sound quality of which was actually pretty amazing. [1] I'm super bummed we're at AirPods 2.0 and still no in-ear option. It's not just an aesthetic choice, it's literally a public health concern, as the article states. I own Bose QC35's and they're great, but they're bulky so I don't always carry them with me the way I can small earphones. I really wish Apple would make in-ear AirPods... I even bought some generic Chinese ones [2] but although they kind of work, they quality isn't anywhere close (in sound quality, in Bluetooth reliability, and size and in construction generally). [1] https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Ear-Headphones-Remote-Mic/dp/B00F96OWNG https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Ear-Headphones-Remote-Mic/dp/B0... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2Z5DBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...

cmicali 7y ago
The BeatsX are as close as you can get right now. Same ease of use/pairing/sound quality, if you can live with the cord in connected the two buds.
- EricE 7y ago
  Agreed. And I find the cord to be a benefit - if I want to pull the headphones out I can just let them hang around my neck and don't have to fumble with them to put them in a pocket or back into their case.

michaelbuckbee 7y ago

Not mentioned in the article (or so far in the discussion here) are bone-conducting headphones which are great for riding and running. https://www.soundguys.com/bone-conduction-headphones-20580/ https://www.soundguys.com/bone-conduction-headphones-20580/ If I had a long subway commute I'd consider using those and a pair of foam earplugs.

anonu 7y ago
I've tried these (not this particular brand) and I did not come away with the same experience. The sound quality is actually pretty atrocious.
- Groxx 7y ago
  They've improved a LOT from what I tried several years ago... but yea, in no way are they even remotely audiophile/enthusiast-friendly. That said, I'd seriously consider them in some settings, e.g. while biking. Being able to hear your surroundings can be important.
- euske 7y ago
  The thing is that those headphones are the opposite of noise cancelling (because it is open). But that's the whole point - I want to be aware more of my surroundings than my music, especially when you're in a public space. If you care about the sound quality, I wouldn't recommend it. For the same reason I'm generally hesitant to use a VR headset, as it almost completely blocks your senses. Total immersion is unnecessary to me.

acjohnson55 7y ago

I recommend the TaoTronics TT-EP008s. They're active noise cancelling and only $40. I bought them when I thought I had lost my trusty Bose QC20s. My Bose's were found and returned to me, and I can confirm that the TaoTronics are on par. They sound slightly different, but I don't think most people would identify one or the other as sounding superior. You can also pair them with memory foam tips for better passive isolation, which is complementary to the active noise cancellation (the former works better for high frequencies, and the latter is only effective for low frequencies).

anonu 7y ago
Ehh - I've had QC20s for 5+ years and The TaoTronics you suggested for 1+ year. I would disagree that they're on par. The QC20s have way better noise cancellation and the frequency response on them (and most Bose products) is more pleasant to my ear as Bose tends to sound better at the lower frequencies. Yes, the QC20s are 5x the cost - but in this case you get what you pay for.

Causality1 7y ago

You need different ear buds for different tasks. If you're trying to isolate yourself, use in-ear buds. If you need to maintain awareness of your surroundings, use canal-adjacent buds like air pods or sony MDR-J10s. If you're in an especially noisy environment like a party, using a lawnmower or vacuum cleaner, use a pair of Plugfones with a real NRR value.

anonu 7y ago

> do a poor job overpowering noise This is actually exactly why I use AirPods. You can run and bike with them and still have some notion of what's going on around you. When I want to cut out noise, I bust out my trusty QC20s, which actually seal the ear off and reduce plenty of noise, even before you turn them on.

RyanAF7 7y ago

Anything pitched by bullshit "tech" companies is going to be bad for you. How is it that it's taken this long for people to realize these fucking ear buds are bad for you? Who thought, "Oh hey, let's shove a speaker directly into peoples ears so they can hear music louder than otherwise possible and they'll love us for it." Jesus, leave it to the HN microcosm to pick up on something only after the "experts" published a bullshit article. lol

RyanAF7 7y ago
But then again, anything to the negative in a way that isn't "kosher" with HN's fucked up overly privileged sensibilities is going to be downvoted lol. WITHIN 1 minute lol. How about one of you dipshits run an algo on how long it takes for non-positive comments to be downvoted and see if it's even possible based on the user base.
- drdeca 7y ago
  Here's a tip which I find helpful in many forums : If I don't want to be downvoted, avoiding using an abrasive manner when criticizing many of the users is something that seems to help. If you don't mind being downvoted, then one can, of course, disregard that, but if one does, one shouldn't complain about being downvoted afterwards.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  I downvoted you for being ridiculously reductive. Whatever you consider to the the opposite of an ear bud is probably also being pitched by some "tech" company. Even assuming tech companies are overall bad, you're just throwing confirmation bias at the problem.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Your account seems quite new. You're allowed to be negative on HN. But empty rants will get downvoted. You might be interested in this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9317916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9317916

fortran77 7y ago

I use CIEMs that mechanically block out external sound. I can listen to music at very low levels even in noisy environments. Expensive (mine were ~ $1200 from 64 Audio) but worth it.

rightos 7y ago

I'm not sure why the 2 options being offered here seem to be either Airpod-style non-sealing hard plastic or full on over-ear cans. What about standard IEMs with better sealing silicon tips? Or the foam variants sold by Comply and similar? Wouldn't that better allow you to isolate external noise and listen at a lower volume than the separate cans? Especially for public transit use cases they'd seem to be better, unless I'm missing something? You should also factor in diminished enjoyment - if you're worried about bothering your neighbor by turning up the volume and are just keeping it lower out of courtesy, well, that's not really an ideal scenario either, especially if you have to put up with barely hearing what you're listening to as a result. Additionally, many of the products being suggested here are not really rated very well and would be hard to suggest to someone listening on even using cheap stuff like the Philips TX2. I don't understand how these can be recommended by any reasonable measure. $30 https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsTX2.pdf https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsTX2.pdf A few suggestions from the article, $50 and $200+ https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#617/2085/463 https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#617/2085/463

keypusher 7y ago
After using in ear headphones for a few years I started to develop fairly bad ear wax problems. Like, my ears would become completely blocked and I would have to go have them cleaned by a specialist. YMMV but putting things deep into your ear canal isn’t necessarily a good idea.

WalterBright 7y ago

I read when I was young that the top 3 causes of deafness were gunshots, rock concerts, and headphones. Nobody mentioned driving with the window down. Got caught by that.

toomanybeersies 7y ago
Unfortunately, I've had a lot of time around all three, plus power tools. Now I'm not even 30 and I have tinnitus.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Sorry about that. Doc told me there can be a 20 year lag between the damage and the symptoms, much like that for skin damage from the sun.

elchief 7y ago

I tried earbuds back in the day but never liked them. They fall out when I run fast. I greatly prefer airliner pilot over the ear headphones. They sound better, block out more noise, and don't fall off I got some MPOW H5s from amazon. $50. Decent battery life. Bluetooth. Noise cancelling isn't anything to write home about. Sound quality is decent

gumby 7y ago

Gosh, I remember when the walkman came out and the press was full of articles on how this was ruining kids' hearing (and civilization in general to boot). Of particular additional concern was how it blocked out exterior noise. Now we have the panic that these don't block out enough noise, which, sacre bleu!, apparently makes things even worse! Though for what it's worth my hearing's been shot since my late 30s. I suspect loud concerts, gunshots, explosions, and manned rocket launches have been worse.

colechristensen 7y ago
BS Industrial Complex is good at selling "bad for you" especially when it's something younger people do more than older people.

m3kw9 7y ago

I imagine plane rides are the worse as that is loud as fk and you will be watching 1-2 movies.

andrekandre 7y ago
i used to use in-ear earphones that fit really well and isolated the outside so i could be fine with 30% or less volume even on the train, but they always broke after a few months and finally broke down and got airpods (been using them for about 9 months with no breakage so far) but their fitting is atrocious and i have to use those plastic attachments that hold them in... nevertheless i now have to be careful i never go above 50% volume because of the lack of isolation.... when i’m in an airplane or train... it’s _very_ hard...

mensetmanusman 7y ago

This doesn’t work for everyone, but I can wear air pods under the 3M Peltor hearing protection (what pro Starcraft players use). Let’s me use them while mowing.

nessunodoro 7y ago

take out one earbud. does the other seem drastically loud? turn down the volume until it doesn't. voila. ambient congruence. same goes for lcd brightness. if the screen you're looking at is brighter than a sheet of paper would be, reduce its amplification. i still believe in the power of humanity to reclaim its environmental awareness, and press a button accordingly.

jagannathtech 7y ago
I believe in the power of humanity to screw itself and never been let down.

dennisgorelik 7y ago

Earbuds bring dirt with potential infection into listener's ears. That is the main reason why I do not use earbuds.

JofArnold 7y ago

I can’t help wonder if Apple are at least in part behind this increasing awareness of the impact of noise on wellness. It’s known they are releasing active noise cancelling headphones (perhaps this year) and WatchOS 6 has a noise meter as one of the complications...