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>In addition to cultural attitudes about the value of hard work, she said, some employers reduce costs by relying on overtime, and employees work the longer hou
by komali2 7y ago
>In addition to cultural attitudes about the value of hard work, she said, some employers reduce costs by relying on overtime, and employees work the longer hours for the extra pay and to please the boss — promotions often depend more on time spent at a desk than actual productivity.
Agggh hits to home. Arrogant American me rolled into a Taiwanese job expecting to skyrocket up the ladder on results alone. Nope, because I left at 5 sharp to enjoy the beautiful mountains, I was a lazy shit. Never mind my 10x increase in sales. Well, also I was an arrogant prick.
I chew on this issue a lot - it's bad to work so much. But, it's culturally ingrained. Some people are trying to change it... but it's happening so slowly. We have our own culturally ingrained things in America that I'd like to change as well, and that are changing, but so slowly. How do you implement change?
I guess that's the plot of any good fantasy or political drama, how do leaders convince people that change can be good?
- Aeolun 7y agoYou have to both work long, and be an amazing worker. Then you'll have a better chance. It's useless to do only one, but if you do anything, just stay late. At least you'll be seen as dedicated to the company.
- jedmeyers 7y ago> How do you implement change? Someone big and local has to step in, let the the workers leave on time yet kick everyone’s butt on the market. Then everyone will start copying the practices.
- paulryanrogers 7y agoRelying on cargo culting is probably not sustainable long term. Education and collective action are better tools IMO.
- ElFitz 7y agoNot every sort of imitation and leading by inspiration is cargo curling. What's described here is how most art movements and industrial revolutions where born.
- tw04 7y agoNo, we just need to stop letting the ultra rich demonize unions. Unions fixed this problem the first the and are the obvious solution again. There's a reason our quasi sweat shops in America fight them so hard.
- derefr 7y agoIs there any way you could just make it physiologically untenable for anyone to stay in your office past 5PM? Right around 6PM at my apartment, the downstairs tenants light up with the most awful, stanky skunk-weed. You literally cannot keep the windows open; and yet, in the middle of summer and no central AC, you can't afford to be there with them closed, either. So, in effect, my neighbour forces me to ensure I'm not home at that hour. Anyone you could bribe to do the same near your office? :P
- commandlinefan 7y agoSo you mean like, eat burritos at 4:30?
- toomuchtodo 7y agoMaybe just turn the lights and power to the router and switched off with a timer at 5pm?
- yesbabyyes 7y agoI have worked in Liberia (in fact, I just returned from a four month stay today) and since the public power company is so untrustworthy, NGOs and offices usually run their own power off diesel generators. It's common the generators are shut down at 5:30 or 6. Works out pretty well.
- blondin 7y agowith the heat we have around here this summer, just shutting down the AC would make people wanna go home lol
- komali2 7y agoIf I shut the AC off in Houston things would break. The paint would blister.
- justaguyhere 7y agoThat is like spraying perfume in a stinky room, it might work short term though. Good solution is to clean the stinky room :P Jokes aside, I don't believe any amount of laws/hacks can completely fix the issue, they sure can help. The attitude has to change. There is more to life than work, money, titles, corner office etc. The saddest part in all of this is a large part of the workforce has nothing to show for all those long hours they put into work. It might be a tiny bit comforting, if they at least got something in return for their hard work. They've been brainwashed into thinking "at least I have a job" :(
- m463 7y ago> how do leaders convince people that change can be good? Showing the idea to a broad audience on tv is actually one way to do this. (although there are ways this can backfire)
- otakucode 7y agoThis show is not seeking to do this. Note this part of the article which barely gets a mention: "In the novel, the decision to work overtime leads to her downfall: She becomes addicted to work, ends up in the hospital and loses a new beau, who has a decidedly more relaxed attitude toward his own job. But on the TV show, which began airing in April, Ms. Higashiyama is destined for a happier fate, said the producers" They're subverting the novel and using it as a tool to support the obsession with putting in more hours, not avoid it, apparently.
- iserlohnmage 7y agoWhat a shake that the producer twisted the author's idea like this.
- iserlohnmage 7y ago*shame
- pavon 7y agoIt is too early to say that, no? Perhaps the happier fate is the result of recognizing the mistake of caving into overtime and correcting it before things get as bad as they did in the book.
- lubujackson 7y agoI am convinced Obama was elected partially because the TV show "24" made having a black president seem viable and normal.
- andkenneth 7y ago
- walshemj 7y agoHow does relaying on Overtime reduce costs? That's just an invitation for workers to indulge in Spanish practices.
- jackvalentine 7y agoThey don't get paid for their extra labour.
- dymk 7y agoAlright - the term "overtime" here was confusing me. In America, overtime means getting paid 1.5x your normal hourly rate. I have a lineman friend who eventually gets paid 2x his normal rate over some number of hours. I don't know of a better term to use, but "overtime" is certainly a tricky one to use here.
- peterjussi 7y agoIn Japan it is generally called Service Overtime when it is for free, as it is a very friendly service you provide the company.
- jackvalentine 7y agoA better term to use is 'unpaid overtime'.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago>Never mind my 10x increase in sales. Well, also I was an arrogant prick. I never understood why "just results aren't enough" for working in some cultures.
- Analemma_ 7y agoBecause results are tricky are measure. "Butts-in-seats" is much easier for lazy and clueless managers to keep track of, so that's what they do.
- jbay808 7y agoYes. It's hard to measure results, because you usually want to know the counterfactuals, like: "what would the result have been if someone else had been given the assignment". If sales grow 10x under your watch, was that because of your hard work and talent, or because the economy went through an upswing and a few lucrative customers stumbled in the door on their own accord? If your colleagues responsible for the neighbouring regions aren't doing as well, would you have done any better in their place? Very hard to know. But they can easily see if you're working overtime.
- Sag0Sag0 7y agoBecause often it's not that hard for the employee to take credit for someone else's results or just fake them. It also creates a poor set of incentives. It causes problems like when programmers are given a bonus for fixing bugs, resulting in them adding bugs to their code and then fixing them.
- kingkawn 7y agoThe same way that all social norms get changed applies here; publicly challenge them and then withstand the viciousness of the backlash without losing your conviction. Then other people will get the courage to agree and it will spread. Not being cowed by the initial furious attacks on you but also not getting dragged into a vengeful battle are the means of social transformation.
- austhrow743 7y agoPaul Graham has an excellent essay [0] that might give some ideas on how the change could come about. Its on American company /career culture changing from staying with one big company your whole career to multiple and smaller ones. [0] www.paulgraham.com/re.html