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> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blockchain-based currency at a huge scale would be interesting for many reasons, but I'm not seeing how it's a fiat "good thing," excepting if you're excited about the technology and waiting for a big player to push it forward. > 3. Unlike government issued currencies, any monopoly or > control facebook derives isn't done through force, it's by > making a coin better than all the other coins. Other > people are still free to make their competing coins. I can't buy into the meritocracy/free market purity argument for a currency. Things are already volatile enough, and sometimes economies collapse and people's life savings become worthless. "Other people can make competing coins" sounds an awful lot to me like treating collapse as a feature.

behringer 7y ago
No doubt if FB (i refuse to call them libra) coins become popular, when world governments limit crypto currency at FB's request, FB coins will no doubt be the only exception.
- lwansbrough 7y ago
  Zucc Buccs it is, then.
  - behringer 7y ago
    Zuckerberg: Every Zucc Buck will be worth 5 British pounds! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4
mdorazio 7y ago
I'm fairly anti-crypto, but there are a couple items in favor of #1: - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) - An international currency can sidestep the artificial middleman fees and friction caused by traditional monetary exchanges. Ex. my friend who is currently studying in Japan wanted to get some money from her US bank account to Japan to pay for tuition and not only had to wait for banks to be open, but also had to pay exchange and transfer fees. - This one doesn't necessarily require an independent currency, but crypto also theoretically enables the fabled land of online micro-tipping for content creators, publishers, etc.
- astrange 7y ago
  > - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) You can't live your life outside your country's currency though. It has a built-in demand because you have to pay taxes in it. So you're going to have to buy some of it somewhere. > - An international currency can sidestep the artificial middleman fees and friction caused by traditional monetary exchanges. Ex. my friend who is currently studying in Japan wanted to get some money from her US bank account to Japan to pay for tuition and not only had to wait for banks to be open, but also had to pay exchange and transfer fees. Try TransferWise.
  - vageli 7y ago
    > > - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) > You can't live your life outside your country's currency though. It has a built-in demand because you have to pay taxes in it. So you're going to have to buy some of it somewhere. Yes but then you can shop around for conversion and can keep the majority of your liquidity in a vehicle which is less easily manipulated but just as fungible (I am just arguing about the utility of a global, trans-national currency and not speaking to specifics offered by the Facebook coin specifically). Currently, if you want to hedge against the Yuan but still want to buy goods in China, you don't have many choices. But if vendors accepted some other currency in addition to Yuan, you can convert to Yuan to settle debts with your government and keep your holdings liquid elsewhere.
  - aianus 7y ago
    > Try TransferWise. TransferWise doesn't work any faster than SWIFT -- if anything it's usually slower. They don't have any magic way to put money into your account on a "bank holiday" either. I imagine Libra won't take Sundays off, at least.
    - astrange 7y ago
      Yeah, but it's a lot cheaper. Japanese banks are happy to take more than Sundays off anyway - some of them don't have 24/7 ATMs.
taurath 7y ago
> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people all over the world without access to banking - they can't store money, they can't transfer money, and they can't invest money. That may be someone who has poor credit in the US, or someone who's living in rural India or Africa. Without access to banking, you are essentially cut off from globalization. If you live in a country that has extremely tight currency and economic controls but with a corrupt government, and are experiencing hyperinflation (Zimbabwe, Venezuela, others https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate), access to alternative currencies can literally be the difference between life and death for individuals, where the money you make on your salary will be worthless by the time you get your check. Plenty of other examples. Whether this is a good solution I don't know, they just announced it.
- rt2dap 7y ago
  Visa and Mastercard have invested so I wonder how they might weigh in on the project. Also, the Libra-coin should also have a transaction cost associated but I would expect/presume it stands an order of magnitude lower than 3-4%
  - taurath 7y ago
    Visa/Mastercard consider crypto an existential threat - the value add that they have in terms of consumer protection, middleman conflict resolution, and fraud prevention does not add up to that 2-4% level of value, and they admit that. Trust and the network effect keep them in play for now. https://qz.com/1646097/what-does-facebooks-crypto-coin-libra-mean-for-visa-and-mastercard/ https://qz.com/1646097/what-does-facebooks-crypto-coin-libra... Crypto transactions however, have not lived up to the "hype" of being truly cheap thus far. Visa/MC are positioning themselves such that the value they bring is not something that crypto can provide. We'll see where that ends up - I'd expect Visa/MC stock to move a bit if the transaction fees for Libra end up being sub-$.05.

behringer 7y ago

No doubt if FB (i refuse to call them libra) coins become popular, when world governments limit crypto currency at FB's request, FB coins will no doubt be the only exception.

lwansbrough 7y ago
Zucc Buccs it is, then.
- behringer 7y ago
  Zuckerberg: Every Zucc Buck will be worth 5 British pounds! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4

mdorazio 7y ago

I'm fairly anti-crypto, but there are a couple items in favor of #1: - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) - An international currency can sidestep the artificial middleman fees and friction caused by traditional monetary exchanges. Ex. my friend who is currently studying in Japan wanted to get some money from her US bank account to Japan to pay for tuition and not only had to wait for banks to be open, but also had to pay exchange and transfer fees. - This one doesn't necessarily require an independent currency, but crypto also theoretically enables the fabled land of online micro-tipping for content creators, publishers, etc.

astrange 7y ago
> - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) You can't live your life outside your country's currency though. It has a built-in demand because you have to pay taxes in it. So you're going to have to buy some of it somewhere. > - An international currency can sidestep the artificial middleman fees and friction caused by traditional monetary exchanges. Ex. my friend who is currently studying in Japan wanted to get some money from her US bank account to Japan to pay for tuition and not only had to wait for banks to be open, but also had to pay exchange and transfer fees. Try TransferWise.
- vageli 7y ago
  > > - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) > You can't live your life outside your country's currency though. It has a built-in demand because you have to pay taxes in it. So you're going to have to buy some of it somewhere. Yes but then you can shop around for conversion and can keep the majority of your liquidity in a vehicle which is less easily manipulated but just as fungible (I am just arguing about the utility of a global, trans-national currency and not speaking to specifics offered by the Facebook coin specifically). Currently, if you want to hedge against the Yuan but still want to buy goods in China, you don't have many choices. But if vendors accepted some other currency in addition to Yuan, you can convert to Yuan to settle debts with your government and keep your holdings liquid elsewhere.
- aianus 7y ago
  > Try TransferWise. TransferWise doesn't work any faster than SWIFT -- if anything it's usually slower. They don't have any magic way to put money into your account on a "bank holiday" either. I imagine Libra won't take Sundays off, at least.
  - astrange 7y ago
    Yeah, but it's a lot cheaper. Japanese banks are happy to take more than Sundays off anyway - some of them don't have 24/7 ATMs.

taurath 7y ago

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people all over the world without access to banking - they can't store money, they can't transfer money, and they can't invest money. That may be someone who has poor credit in the US, or someone who's living in rural India or Africa. Without access to banking, you are essentially cut off from globalization. If you live in a country that has extremely tight currency and economic controls but with a corrupt government, and are experiencing hyperinflation (Zimbabwe, Venezuela, others https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate), access to alternative currencies can literally be the difference between life and death for individuals, where the money you make on your salary will be worthless by the time you get your check. Plenty of other examples. Whether this is a good solution I don't know, they just announced it.

rt2dap 7y ago
Visa and Mastercard have invested so I wonder how they might weigh in on the project. Also, the Libra-coin should also have a transaction cost associated but I would expect/presume it stands an order of magnitude lower than 3-4%
- taurath 7y ago
  Visa/Mastercard consider crypto an existential threat - the value add that they have in terms of consumer protection, middleman conflict resolution, and fraud prevention does not add up to that 2-4% level of value, and they admit that. Trust and the network effect keep them in play for now. https://qz.com/1646097/what-does-facebooks-crypto-coin-libra-mean-for-visa-and-mastercard/ https://qz.com/1646097/what-does-facebooks-crypto-coin-libra... Crypto transactions however, have not lived up to the "hype" of being truly cheap thus far. Visa/MC are positioning themselves such that the value they bring is not something that crypto can provide. We'll see where that ends up - I'd expect Visa/MC stock to move a bit if the transaction fees for Libra end up being sub-$.05.