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"The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves." Why don't you learn from your Northerly neigh

"The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves." Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? One thing I find in my travels to India, is how much abject contempt you guys have towards the Chinese way of doing things. Unbelievable - considering the cultures are very similar (Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures), similar population sizes, etc.. No, let's follow a political system that has had no organic roots/development in the country and pretend all are literate folks who are capable of holding a debate on what policies are good for their country, while the politicians take out everyone to the cleaners.

iamgopal 7y ago
Was that sarcasm?
- luminati 7y ago
  https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-poverty-elimination/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-p... While the other country is still figuring out potties, water supplies, electricity, etc. but no the democracy, freedom of speech, etc. is more important even if y'll can't read/write. You reach the top of Maslow's hierarchy by climbing it from the bottom step-by-step, not by magically teleporting to the top like what western liberals would claim to.
  - shirakawasuna 7y ago
    I'm sure that's why all my Chinese colleagues have been desperate to stay in the US.
- Para2016 7y ago
  One can only hope
smallnamespace 7y ago
> considering the cultures are very similar India is far more multicultural (multiple religions, multiple ethnicities, multiple languages) than China. Easy rule of thumb for the last 2 millennia of history: China has spent most of its time unified, while India hasn't.
- naruvimama 7y ago
  That might actually be untrue. While India through out its history was ruled by countless small kingdoms, most of them were part of invisible empires and connected through marriage, alliance or principle. There were very few genocidal wars or wars of total annihilation. This strangely was a common problem not only in China but in Europe where loosing a war would mean total annihilation. This only came to an end in India with the Islamic invasion - whose strategy like in Persia or Mesopotamia consisted of raid, loot, murder and flee. When they found themselves more permanent rule it was mostly about conversion, taking slaves, destruction/defacement or appropriation(repurposing) of non-islamic buildings. It is like saying the Soviet was united and the EU was never. The Soviet was held together by force, the EU is held together by consent.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
There is a huge deal difference between relatively homogenous China (90+% Han) and linguistically and ethnically diverse India. Heck, English is even a unifying language there. Not to mention way different geographies (very fertile/tropical India and very mountainous/temperate China) and political (including colonial) histories. Perhaps India could learn a few lessons from China, but the role model approach wouldn’t work.
voldacar 7y ago
>Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? Ah yes humans really do thrive under totalitarian dictatorships
sbmthakur 7y ago
Democracy, for all its faults, has worked for us. Over the decades, India has improved on factors like life expectancy and literacy. Not saying that we're there but we're definitely getting there. I'm not sure if we'd even remain a single country if we were to have a Communist government(or some other form of dictatorship.) However, I do feel that we can learn a lot from Chinese people and culture.
nilsocket 7y ago
We are unable to have a national language, because many people disagree. > Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures Buddhism was born in India, but never spread across country in any considerable amount, other countries took up on it. The place where Buddha was born and enlightened is in modern day Bihar, you rarely find any Buddhist there. India is very diverse, we have 22 official languages (~1000 unofficial), and for many languages writing scripts change, within 100 to 200km dialects and languages keep changing. Food keeps changing, climate keeps changing. People's behaviour keep changing. Dressing style, music, dance,... keeps changing. Nothing stays the same. Government have recently released a educational draft, indicating children should be tri-lingual (native language, Hindi, English) and many people straight out opposed it, indicating they don't accept Hindi, as in near future there language may go out of existence. The main problem is we cannot communicate properly, with each other from other places. India is in no way similar to China, except for huge population numbers. Despite being colonized for ~800 years(600 years under Muslim rulers, 200 years under British), culture haven't changed, think how stubborn people are. We are a mess in it's own way, but we somehow survive and flourish slowly. A good modern day example would be, Indian election. Indian media and left tried there best to spread anti-modi movement (~5 years), no media channel have expected modi to win majority in 2019, but it came to be quite opposite. Even now, all media channels are doing some analysis, how did this happen. There is an old saying ( loosely translated), If you are having a discussion with 5 chinese and 5 Indians about a problem. All Chinese come up with one solution, Indians come up with atleast 6 different ideas. Thank you.
- otohp 7y ago
  Claiming that we were colonised by muslims is not correct. Unlike the british, they did not rob india of it's treasure and take it away. You may not like it that it happened, but claiming that it was colonization is ridiculous.
  - smallnamespace 7y ago
    > 1) the primary object of his invasion was to plunder India's wealth. India, at that time, was known for its wealth, particularly its gold and precious diamonds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Ahmad_Shah_Durrani#Objectives_of_his_Indian_invasions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Ahmad_Shah_...
dgjrhgi 7y ago
That's because most literate Indians(thanks to media, text,.. bias) have zero confidence(in some cases hatred) in traditional Indian/Chinese methods of life. They will die hunting for modern scientific solutions these problems but never even once look back to their history for answers.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. You probably have a good point there but snarky frustration is not the way to present it, and you made things much worse with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20215080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20215080. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

iamgopal 7y ago

Was that sarcasm?

luminati 7y ago
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-poverty-elimination/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-p... While the other country is still figuring out potties, water supplies, electricity, etc. but no the democracy, freedom of speech, etc. is more important even if y'll can't read/write. You reach the top of Maslow's hierarchy by climbing it from the bottom step-by-step, not by magically teleporting to the top like what western liberals would claim to.
- shirakawasuna 7y ago
  I'm sure that's why all my Chinese colleagues have been desperate to stay in the US.
Para2016 7y ago
One can only hope

smallnamespace 7y ago

> considering the cultures are very similar India is far more multicultural (multiple religions, multiple ethnicities, multiple languages) than China. Easy rule of thumb for the last 2 millennia of history: China has spent most of its time unified, while India hasn't.

naruvimama 7y ago
That might actually be untrue. While India through out its history was ruled by countless small kingdoms, most of them were part of invisible empires and connected through marriage, alliance or principle. There were very few genocidal wars or wars of total annihilation. This strangely was a common problem not only in China but in Europe where loosing a war would mean total annihilation. This only came to an end in India with the Islamic invasion - whose strategy like in Persia or Mesopotamia consisted of raid, loot, murder and flee. When they found themselves more permanent rule it was mostly about conversion, taking slaves, destruction/defacement or appropriation(repurposing) of non-islamic buildings. It is like saying the Soviet was united and the EU was never. The Soviet was held together by force, the EU is held together by consent.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

There is a huge deal difference between relatively homogenous China (90+% Han) and linguistically and ethnically diverse India. Heck, English is even a unifying language there. Not to mention way different geographies (very fertile/tropical India and very mountainous/temperate China) and political (including colonial) histories. Perhaps India could learn a few lessons from China, but the role model approach wouldn’t work.

voldacar 7y ago

>Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? Ah yes humans really do thrive under totalitarian dictatorships

sbmthakur 7y ago

Democracy, for all its faults, has worked for us. Over the decades, India has improved on factors like life expectancy and literacy. Not saying that we're there but we're definitely getting there. I'm not sure if we'd even remain a single country if we were to have a Communist government(or some other form of dictatorship.) However, I do feel that we can learn a lot from Chinese people and culture.

nilsocket 7y ago

We are unable to have a national language, because many people disagree. > Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures Buddhism was born in India, but never spread across country in any considerable amount, other countries took up on it. The place where Buddha was born and enlightened is in modern day Bihar, you rarely find any Buddhist there. India is very diverse, we have 22 official languages (~1000 unofficial), and for many languages writing scripts change, within 100 to 200km dialects and languages keep changing. Food keeps changing, climate keeps changing. People's behaviour keep changing. Dressing style, music, dance,... keeps changing. Nothing stays the same. Government have recently released a educational draft, indicating children should be tri-lingual (native language, Hindi, English) and many people straight out opposed it, indicating they don't accept Hindi, as in near future there language may go out of existence. The main problem is we cannot communicate properly, with each other from other places. India is in no way similar to China, except for huge population numbers. Despite being colonized for ~800 years(600 years under Muslim rulers, 200 years under British), culture haven't changed, think how stubborn people are. We are a mess in it's own way, but we somehow survive and flourish slowly. A good modern day example would be, Indian election. Indian media and left tried there best to spread anti-modi movement (~5 years), no media channel have expected modi to win majority in 2019, but it came to be quite opposite. Even now, all media channels are doing some analysis, how did this happen. There is an old saying ( loosely translated), If you are having a discussion with 5 chinese and 5 Indians about a problem. All Chinese come up with one solution, Indians come up with atleast 6 different ideas. Thank you.

otohp 7y ago
Claiming that we were colonised by muslims is not correct. Unlike the british, they did not rob india of it's treasure and take it away. You may not like it that it happened, but claiming that it was colonization is ridiculous.
- smallnamespace 7y ago
  > 1) the primary object of his invasion was to plunder India's wealth. India, at that time, was known for its wealth, particularly its gold and precious diamonds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Ahmad_Shah_Durrani#Objectives_of_his_Indian_invasions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Ahmad_Shah_...

dgjrhgi 7y ago

That's because most literate Indians(thanks to media, text,.. bias) have zero confidence(in some cases hatred) in traditional Indian/Chinese methods of life. They will die hunting for modern scientific solutions these problems but never even once look back to their history for answers.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. You probably have a good point there but snarky frustration is not the way to present it, and you made things much worse with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20215080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20215080. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html