8 ms·

Monsoons have been a dud so far. Our well nearly dried up, and we were planning to shift should water run out. The municipal water supply is useless. The irony:

by Arun2009 7y ago

Monsoons have been a dud so far. Our well nearly dried up, and we were planning to shift should water run out. The municipal water supply is useless. The irony: my state (Kerala) receives around 3000+ mm rainfall per year on average, and suffered from devastating floods last year. I feel sad when Indians wank about military technology and "national security" issues due to Pakistan and China. The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves. I fear that we will pay a very heavy price for this.

skinnymuch 7y ago
Does India spend a lot of time and resources on Pakistan stuff? PK is so puny compared to India.
- iKevinShah 7y ago
  tbf, its less about being actually worried about Pakistan (we are a little) but its more about gaining public support and hence votes due to it.
- scarmig 7y ago
  How much time does the US spend arguing over relatively minor (in the grand scheme of things) issues like immigration, Presidential dignity, and campus political correctness? All the while, even the DNC refuses to hold a climate change debate to figure out how candidates are approaching the biggest existential threat we face now. Unfortunately humanity isn't good at facing long term issues that require serious sacrifice and collective action.
  - addicted 7y ago
    And the RNC considers it a conspiracy.
    - stronglikedan 7y ago
      Not a conspiracy, just the DNC being the DNC - not really interested in actually solving crises, since crises are their platform.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    > Unfortunately humanity isn't good at facing long term issues On the contrary, long term issues are not likely to be a huge problem, if you factor investment, innovation and technical improvements. It's not like the world is static and nothing is going to happen in the coming 50 years. Let me remind you at that in the early 20th century everyone was seriously worried that humanity might starve to death once we reach 1 billion people. And we are now more than 7, and no starvation is in sight. That was a long term problem that basically disappeared completely.
    - graeme 7y ago
      We solved that problem by using fossil energy to fertilize and mechanize agriculture, and non renewable fossil aquifers to irrigate. It's not obvious the problem is solved, it may only be delayed.
    - scarmig 7y ago
      You can sweep the issue of climate change under the rug with claims of innovation and technology solving everything. I presume, though, that you're opposed to e.g. a heavy carbon tax. You can use that same line to sweep the downsides of it under the rug--after all, a carbon tax will drive innovation toward green tech. It's a kind of technological nihilism that says that technology will fix everything. In the real world, we have to consider concrete costs and benefits. In the long term, we are far poorer if we don't address climate change.
      - graeme 7y ago
        Exactly. There's a lack of seriousness in those who: * hold that technology will fix everything, but * oppose a carbon tax, which would give a market incentive to technology aimed at fixing this It's not even consistent with market principles. We have the income tax, a massive distortion in the economy. We could replace much of this with a carbon tax.
        scarmig 7y ago
        A carbon tax that replaces income tax, dollar for dollar, is almost a pure win. To the extent that carbon use is absolutely necessary (read: inelastic), the tax will be passed on transparently. It'd be theoretically efficient in the same sense a land tax is efficient. To the extent that carbon use isn't necessary (read: elastic), it'd drive people to substitute it for something else. Even efficiency of implementation is trivial compared to income tax. The government knows where companies are extracting fossil fuels, and it knows which companies are extracting fossil fuels, and fossil fuel extraction requires large amounts of hard-to-move capital. Policy-wise it's as pure an economic win as we can imagine in this world of ours, as we'd be moving away from distortionary income taxation.
- sametmax 7y ago
  You mean like Iran, that haven't invaded any country in 200 years, is surrounded by the US, a country that invades other places every decade, sometime lying about WMD and against the UN ? Threats are rarely the reasons we attack people. Politics and resources are more likely. Asking with India is fighting Paskistan is like a drunk asking a friend why smoking those bad, bad cigarets.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - justanobody 7y ago
    In fact, it would be interesting to create maps of resources which are useful for today's society vs military presence of major powers near these resource centers. It would be revealing, but I would fear for the safety of the author of such an article. Why isn't the US equally interested in spreading freedom and democracy in every single country on this map? https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/ https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/
- srean 7y ago
  Yup. That narrative helped, in a backhanded way, the current party to win the election. Embarrasingly convenient issue to stoke to win these things when one runs out of towns to rename :)
ohaideredevs 7y ago
You guys have enough T-90s to roll Pakistan three times over. One of the largest modern tank forces in the world if not THE largest.
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  It's very likely an all actual war between India and Pakistan would be decided before a single tank could cross the border. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for over 20 years at this point.
  - cmonnow 7y ago
    Yeah.. All India has are brainwashed terrorists who cross over into the neighboring country and use their flesh as boom fuel.
    - dang 7y ago
      Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - cmonnow 7y ago
        Did you make this comment to OP first ?
        dang 7y ago
        I understand the feeling, but it's actually an irrelevant question, much as you still get a speeding ticket even when some other guy was going faster. If you see comments that should be moderated but weren't, the likeliest reason is that we didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing all the comments here. You can let us know about it by flagging it (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html) or by emailing hn@ycombinator.com in egregious cases.
  - 7y ago
luminati 7y ago
"The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves." Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? One thing I find in my travels to India, is how much abject contempt you guys have towards the Chinese way of doing things. Unbelievable - considering the cultures are very similar (Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures), similar population sizes, etc.. No, let's follow a political system that has had no organic roots/development in the country and pretend all are literate folks who are capable of holding a debate on what policies are good for their country, while the politicians take out everyone to the cleaners.
- iamgopal 7y ago
  Was that sarcasm?
  - luminati 7y ago
    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-poverty-elimination/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-p... While the other country is still figuring out potties, water supplies, electricity, etc. but no the democracy, freedom of speech, etc. is more important even if y'll can't read/write. You reach the top of Maslow's hierarchy by climbing it from the bottom step-by-step, not by magically teleporting to the top like what western liberals would claim to.
    - shirakawasuna 7y ago
      I'm sure that's why all my Chinese colleagues have been desperate to stay in the US.
  - Para2016 7y ago
    One can only hope
- smallnamespace 7y ago
  > considering the cultures are very similar India is far more multicultural (multiple religions, multiple ethnicities, multiple languages) than China. Easy rule of thumb for the last 2 millennia of history: China has spent most of its time unified, while India hasn't.
sbmthakur 7y ago
You raise a good point. But national security has its place, especially when two nuclear-armed neighbors have invaded you in the past. We can build-up national security and enhance focus on internal problems at the same time. For example, there have been talks of cooperation with Israel on the water-shortage issue: https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/israel-comes-forward-to-help-india-overcome-water-shortage-focus-on-tackling-drought-and-desertification/437815 https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/israel-comes-forw...
- jogjayr 7y ago
  Pakistan is nowhere near strong enough to defeat India in a conventional war. India would almost certainly lose a conventional war with China. All 3 nations have nukes. Doing anything more than maintaining that equilibrium is a waste of resources.
  - sbmthakur 7y ago
    It's difficult to predict considering that Pak has vowed to use tactical nukes on any invading Indian force. But yes, that's the agreed upon conclusion[1]. Maintaing the equilibrium is obviously good for peace. But there are reports of India and Pakistan beefing up nukes. 1. https://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/fewer-but-newer-nuclear-arms-in-the-world-report-119061700521_1.html https://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/fewer-...
    - jogjayr 7y ago
      > Pak has vowed to use tactical nukes on any invading Indian force. True. But in a nuclear conflict there are no winners.
agumonkey 7y ago
You can easily generalize the sentiment. Most countries are distracted by useless debates while the environment is ignored.
thisisit 7y ago
I fail to see how does the first part of your statement about climate issues connect with the second part of the statement about security/Pakistan. It seems that you just wanted to make a point. For the municipal water issue what has the state government/city done over the years?

skinnymuch 7y ago

Does India spend a lot of time and resources on Pakistan stuff? PK is so puny compared to India.

iKevinShah 7y ago
tbf, its less about being actually worried about Pakistan (we are a little) but its more about gaining public support and hence votes due to it.
scarmig 7y ago
How much time does the US spend arguing over relatively minor (in the grand scheme of things) issues like immigration, Presidential dignity, and campus political correctness? All the while, even the DNC refuses to hold a climate change debate to figure out how candidates are approaching the biggest existential threat we face now. Unfortunately humanity isn't good at facing long term issues that require serious sacrifice and collective action.
- addicted 7y ago
  And the RNC considers it a conspiracy.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    Not a conspiracy, just the DNC being the DNC - not really interested in actually solving crises, since crises are their platform.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  > Unfortunately humanity isn't good at facing long term issues On the contrary, long term issues are not likely to be a huge problem, if you factor investment, innovation and technical improvements. It's not like the world is static and nothing is going to happen in the coming 50 years. Let me remind you at that in the early 20th century everyone was seriously worried that humanity might starve to death once we reach 1 billion people. And we are now more than 7, and no starvation is in sight. That was a long term problem that basically disappeared completely.
  - graeme 7y ago
    We solved that problem by using fossil energy to fertilize and mechanize agriculture, and non renewable fossil aquifers to irrigate. It's not obvious the problem is solved, it may only be delayed.
  - scarmig 7y ago
    You can sweep the issue of climate change under the rug with claims of innovation and technology solving everything. I presume, though, that you're opposed to e.g. a heavy carbon tax. You can use that same line to sweep the downsides of it under the rug--after all, a carbon tax will drive innovation toward green tech. It's a kind of technological nihilism that says that technology will fix everything. In the real world, we have to consider concrete costs and benefits. In the long term, we are far poorer if we don't address climate change.
    - graeme 7y ago
      Exactly. There's a lack of seriousness in those who: * hold that technology will fix everything, but * oppose a carbon tax, which would give a market incentive to technology aimed at fixing this It's not even consistent with market principles. We have the income tax, a massive distortion in the economy. We could replace much of this with a carbon tax.
      - scarmig 7y ago
        A carbon tax that replaces income tax, dollar for dollar, is almost a pure win. To the extent that carbon use is absolutely necessary (read: inelastic), the tax will be passed on transparently. It'd be theoretically efficient in the same sense a land tax is efficient. To the extent that carbon use isn't necessary (read: elastic), it'd drive people to substitute it for something else. Even efficiency of implementation is trivial compared to income tax. The government knows where companies are extracting fossil fuels, and it knows which companies are extracting fossil fuels, and fossil fuel extraction requires large amounts of hard-to-move capital. Policy-wise it's as pure an economic win as we can imagine in this world of ours, as we'd be moving away from distortionary income taxation.
sametmax 7y ago
You mean like Iran, that haven't invaded any country in 200 years, is surrounded by the US, a country that invades other places every decade, sometime lying about WMD and against the UN ? Threats are rarely the reasons we attack people. Politics and resources are more likely. Asking with India is fighting Paskistan is like a drunk asking a friend why smoking those bad, bad cigarets.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- justanobody 7y ago
  In fact, it would be interesting to create maps of resources which are useful for today's society vs military presence of major powers near these resource centers. It would be revealing, but I would fear for the safety of the author of such an article. Why isn't the US equally interested in spreading freedom and democracy in every single country on this map? https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/ https://planetrulers.com/current-dictators/
srean 7y ago
Yup. That narrative helped, in a backhanded way, the current party to win the election. Embarrasingly convenient issue to stoke to win these things when one runs out of towns to rename :)

ohaideredevs 7y ago

You guys have enough T-90s to roll Pakistan three times over. One of the largest modern tank forces in the world if not THE largest.

ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
It's very likely an all actual war between India and Pakistan would be decided before a single tank could cross the border. Pakistan has had nuclear weapons for over 20 years at this point.
- cmonnow 7y ago
  Yeah.. All India has are brainwashed terrorists who cross over into the neighboring country and use their flesh as boom fuel.
  - dang 7y ago
    Nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. Please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - cmonnow 7y ago
      Did you make this comment to OP first ?
      - dang 7y ago
        I understand the feeling, but it's actually an irrelevant question, much as you still get a speeding ticket even when some other guy was going faster. If you see comments that should be moderated but weren't, the likeliest reason is that we didn't see it. We don't come close to seeing all the comments here. You can let us know about it by flagging it (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html) or by emailing hn@ycombinator.com in egregious cases.
- 7y ago

luminati 7y ago

"The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves." Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? One thing I find in my travels to India, is how much abject contempt you guys have towards the Chinese way of doing things. Unbelievable - considering the cultures are very similar (Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures), similar population sizes, etc.. No, let's follow a political system that has had no organic roots/development in the country and pretend all are literate folks who are capable of holding a debate on what policies are good for their country, while the politicians take out everyone to the cleaners.

iamgopal 7y ago
Was that sarcasm?
- luminati 7y ago
  https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-poverty-elimination/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/chinas-long-road-to-p... While the other country is still figuring out potties, water supplies, electricity, etc. but no the democracy, freedom of speech, etc. is more important even if y'll can't read/write. You reach the top of Maslow's hierarchy by climbing it from the bottom step-by-step, not by magically teleporting to the top like what western liberals would claim to.
  - shirakawasuna 7y ago
    I'm sure that's why all my Chinese colleagues have been desperate to stay in the US.
- Para2016 7y ago
  One can only hope
smallnamespace 7y ago
> considering the cultures are very similar India is far more multicultural (multiple religions, multiple ethnicities, multiple languages) than China. Easy rule of thumb for the last 2 millennia of history: China has spent most of its time unified, while India hasn't.

sbmthakur 7y ago

You raise a good point. But national security has its place, especially when two nuclear-armed neighbors have invaded you in the past. We can build-up national security and enhance focus on internal problems at the same time. For example, there have been talks of cooperation with Israel on the water-shortage issue: https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/israel-comes-forward-to-help-india-overcome-water-shortage-focus-on-tackling-drought-and-desertification/437815 https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/israel-comes-forw...

jogjayr 7y ago
Pakistan is nowhere near strong enough to defeat India in a conventional war. India would almost certainly lose a conventional war with China. All 3 nations have nukes. Doing anything more than maintaining that equilibrium is a waste of resources.
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  It's difficult to predict considering that Pak has vowed to use tactical nukes on any invading Indian force. But yes, that's the agreed upon conclusion[1]. Maintaing the equilibrium is obviously good for peace. But there are reports of India and Pakistan beefing up nukes. 1. https://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/fewer-but-newer-nuclear-arms-in-the-world-report-119061700521_1.html https://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/fewer-...
  - jogjayr 7y ago
    > Pak has vowed to use tactical nukes on any invading Indian force. True. But in a nuclear conflict there are no winners.

agumonkey 7y ago

You can easily generalize the sentiment. Most countries are distracted by useless debates while the environment is ignored.

thisisit 7y ago

I fail to see how does the first part of your statement about climate issues connect with the second part of the statement about security/Pakistan. It seems that you just wanted to make a point. For the municipal water issue what has the state government/city done over the years?