26 ms·

World’s top bicycle maker is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory

202 points by adventured 7y ago

weiming 7y ago
We just moved and needed to buy some new kitchenware. You would not believe how difficult it is to find so much as a spoon that is not made in China. Even from any name brand, even in a "fancy" store like Williams-Sonoma.
- hashbig 7y ago
  May I ask, why are you specifically looking for a spoon that isn't made in China?
  - weiming 7y ago
    Assumption (partly from personal experience) that products may be more likely tainted with unknown or harmful substances for the sake of cost cutting somewhere in the pipeline.
    - user5994461 7y ago
      I feel your pain, recalling the last time I moved out. Buying anything on Amazon is a disaster. Friendly tip. Go to a local supermarket or department store and get what you need there. The item will for sure come from a normal manufacturer/brand and satisfy the local regulations against toxic plastic and stuff, even if it was made and imported from china.
      - silversconfused 7y ago
        We've been having good luck seeking out manufactures and buying directly from them instead of using amazon. It's often cheaper.
- bpicolo 7y ago
  Gotta be more targeted in your searches if that's what you care about. https://www.sherrillmfg.com/ https://www.sherrillmfg.com/ https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutlery https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutl...
  - weiming 7y ago
    Thank you. Looking Japanese stuff is a great idea. They are one of the few places to still keep some manufacturing "in-house." Searching is hard and companies are not always fully transparent about their process. E.g. "Assembled in the USA" for a frying pan could mean that the pan and handle are made in China, but riveted to each other in the USA. Sigh.
    - bpicolo 7y ago
      For nicer kitchenware, shy away from retail stores in general. Search out brands, find what nice restaurants are using - some fancy restaurants seek out small, artisanal manufacturers for sure. I remember Jungsik had all dinnerware from Korean artisans. Nice stuff.
- nextos 7y ago
  Try Sambonet for example, great quality, made in Italy. Or some WMF steel, made in Germany. Other components might come from China, though.
- lesdeuxmagots 7y ago
  Cutipol is Portuguese. Liberty Table Top still manufactures in the US.
- kpU8efre7r 7y ago
  Yep. I wanted a good American made roasting rack so I went to Williams Sonoma. They're all made in China now.
  - sk5t 7y ago
    All-Clad (but not the HA2 line, I presume an MBA got their hooks into the operation) is still made in the USA.
- thorin 7y ago
  Pretty easy to find this kind of stuff in the UK, e.g. a lot of cutlery used to be made in Sheffield which is near to me and there still seems to be a demand. https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Old_English.html#SID=273 https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Old_English.html#SID...
nkozyra 7y ago
Amazing to see an anecdote like this trotted out as newsworthy. There are three total data points and two of them are incredibly vague. Honestly, this feels a bit like propaganda.
- 55555 7y ago
  It's a company using politics to get free press. Nothing new here.
- nafizh 7y ago
  The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.
  - afterburner 7y ago
    It's not opinion, it's an announcement that they're moving their manufacturing to Taiwan. "Giant Manufacturing is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory" "Giant" is the brand.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.
    - wtallis 7y ago
      Shimano doesn't sell bicycles, just a lot of bicycle components and accessories.
      - microcolonel 7y ago
        Fair enough, I just couldn't think of any other manufacturers even in the industry that make more parts or complete bicycles (that I can actually buy) than Giant does.
    - 7y ago
avocado4 7y ago
Perhaps if manufacturers will move out of PRC into nearby countries it won't have a large effect on prices for consumers and businesses in the US, but at the same time will force China to make structural changes in adherence with the rules of global trade and human rights. Too bad Trump has alienated traditional US allies - if major economies teamed up in this effort it would have been a much easier goal.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  I don't think allies are going to be permanently "alienated" by one president's remarks.
  - petschge 7y ago
    The one idiot that the rest of the world ignored was Georg W. Bush. By electing a second, worse idiot the US has demonstrated to the world that they are no longer a viable long term partner.
    - tastygreenapple 7y ago
      The feeling is mutual, why do you think we elected Trump? Americans are sick and tired of America paying for the rest of the world. Enjoy investing in your own military, if you get invaded I hope the U.S doesn't lift a finger.
      - comicjk 7y ago
        If this was the reason you voted for Trump, I have some bad news about the trajectory of military spending.
      - dang 7y ago
        Posting political flamewar comments isn't ok here. Would you please review and follow the site guidelines so we don't have to ban you again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jopsen 7y ago
This could just be a neat spin on a move towards automation :)
- jakobegger 7y ago
  Are there any robots yet that can weld bicycle frames? I thought that was still a job for humans...
  - lostapathy 7y ago
    Robots weld all kinds of complicated things - cars for example. Why not bikes?
  - razorunreal 7y ago
    This is actually weird to me. It seemed like it should be possible to stamp out bicycle frames like a car, so I researched it. Such a bike does exist, but is extremely expensive, which seems to defeat the purpose. Is it really not possible to streamline the manufacturing beyond welded tubes?
    - analog31 7y ago
      Lots of aluminum bike frames are already made from hydroformed tubes. Anything that looks like it wasn't just made from pipes, is molded. The question is whether making a frame from a smaller number of molded parts is cost effective. The different parts have to be of different thicknesses, and there's just the geometry puzzle of how to do it without ending up with a big seam that has to be welded anyway. Early Schwinn frames included parts (head tube, bottom bracket) that were formed from sheet metal. One thing about making tubes from tubing is that there's very little waste.
    - stevenwoo 7y ago
      Not an expert but stamped parts are pretty weak from some angles, but perhaps you meant cold forged which is how aluminum bicycle cranks and some other parts are made - pressed using 100,000 pounds (or some big number depending on material) of pressure, this of course only works for mostly solid items. There is a huge cost in making a cold forge and a limited number of times a mold can be used before a new mold has to be made due to wear and tear. Frame quantities in the exact same shape are not that big, though, manufacturers do seem to come up with new models every few years. Making a frame from a solid piece of metal would make it very heavy increasing the material costs substantially, and counterintuitively - weaker than a tube for this application - there is a strength from the shape of a tube that a solid piece of the same metal does not have and if my memory serves right, the larger the inner radius, the greater the strength (of course you can make a tube so thin the first mishap with a vector in the wrong direction crushes it, but that's a different problem). I recall there being a magnesium frame that was a one piece thing a long time ago.
nextos 7y ago
I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes lower quality. Higher tolerances, zero pollution standards, etc. In particular, most items I got from China have this terrible new plastic smell that is almost intoxicating. Same for some clothing dyes. Studies show formaldehyde concentrations are really high in Chinese homes, and I'm not surprised. Hence, a few years ago I made a resolution to raise my standards and avoid those things. But it's a lot of trouble to find high quality items these days. I want to own few things and keep most for the rest of my life. I have slowly curated such a list, but it's as I said you need to go out of your way and often get custom things from niche brands. Once a big company in a particular industry moves to China, most will follow shortly. It's game theory. The average customer couldn't care less about things I mentioned above. Sadly, it's all about price. tl;dr As a consumer I miss much better reviews and reports on product quality, safety and repairability. I feel that'd improve the situation where most industries localize to China to cut costs at the expense of everything else due to information asymmetry.
- josho 7y ago
  > Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).
  - nextos 7y ago
    That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. But I agree the information is quite asymmetric. As a customer, I want to know a lot more about how products are made. And I want to be able to repair them and source replacement parts.
walrus01 7y ago
If you know the bicycle industry, what's interesting is that Giant started out as a Taiwanese based manufacturer, and is probably going to go back there for some things. And to other places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia. They are actually not very much different from the top ten largest Taiwanese motherboard makers. All the motherboards used to be made in Taiwan (Hsin-Chu City, etc). For lower labor costs and other things they moved a lot of production to mainland China and kept the design/R&D/HQ in Taiwan. Now some things are going to go back the other way.
- NorthOf33rd 7y ago
  Even the parts still made in Taiwan are often made by imported labor, last time I visited a bike factory, many signs were _only_ in thai. Taiwanese labor is just too expensive to hit the margins targets US bike manufacturers are looking for. It looks like the shift that's been happening toward SE Asia will just accelerate.
  - walrus01 7y ago
    a large number of taiwan based AC-to-DC and DC/DC power supply manufacturers (Delta, Zippy, etc) have opened factories in Thailand. If you look at the ATX power supplies sold on newegg for instance, there's about 60 different brand names, actually manufactured by about 12 different companies. I'd say at least half of those have moved manufacturing outside of mainland china because they have better labor/cost of operations opportunities elsewhere in developing parts of southeast asia.
mymythisisthis 7y ago
Bicycles are something that you need to be careful buying. Don't buy a BSO - a Bicycle Shaped Object. Just because it looks like a bike, doesn't mean you can comfortably ride it. An entry level bike is about $1200. You can comfortably ride it for hours, or up hills, carry a heavy load, it won't easily break, and it'll have a smooth ride. I feel bad for people that go out and buy a BSO; BSOs ruin cycling. We need to have laws in place to prevent crap from reaching the market.
- nihonde 7y ago
  I have to laugh at this. In Japan, my Chinese-made bicycle is bulletproof and entirely functional. It cost $150, shipped to my front door. It’s a folding bike with 9 speeds and disc brakes. I’ve ridden it day after day for years. It spent two years without shelter in the elements. It won’t win the Tour but it is a winner in every other way. You can tell me the environmental impact was horrendous and I would believe you, but the quality of this bicycle can’t be denied.
  - davidw 7y ago
    Sounds like it's a decent commuter-ish bike? You don't see many of those in the US compared to places like Europe or in your case Japan. Probably because there's less of a market for them in the US. What the OP is probably thinking of is the crappy bikes you get at supermarkets, where the quality is really not very good, and they're assembled by someone who is not paying attention. Sometimes they try and look like a more expensive bike: front shocks, lots of gears and so on. The commuter bikes in Europe were, on the other hand, built with that in mind - big fenders, more upright position, and fairly rugged if not lightweight construction. You wouldn't mistake them for a bike you'd want to go on a long ride with.
  - jwong_ 7y ago
    What's the bike you got? I am in the market for one in China, and have a hard time filtering for quality.
    - nihonde 7y ago
gravelc 7y ago
Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China (https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-factory/ https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa...). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and Pacific Cycles in Taiwan, then re-branded.
- uxp100 7y ago
  Yes. I think taiwan was/is a leader in Carbon Fiber. 90s carbon-fiber-glued-to-aluminum bikes were all made from CF tubing that was made in taiwan, by Giant (that last detail I'm a little less sure on, made in taiwan for certain). Specialized, Trek, and Giant all had very similar bikes available at that time, conventional geometries with Shimano 600 (I've got one, I love it). Modern monocoque designs are a little more diverse in design, but I think all but the highest end are made in taiwan.
- phkahler 7y ago
  But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China.
  - stefantalpalaru 7y ago
    > But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China. It's the same if you ask Taiwan. Their official name is "Republic of China".
- baroffoos 7y ago
  I don't have a Giant bike but I have some giant accessories and they have all been to a very high standard.
- NorthOf33rd 7y ago
  Re-branded isn't quite correct, they are a contract manufacturer, so they are made specifically for the brands. Rebranded makes me think of open mold or catalog frames.
wintorez 7y ago
Amen!
blunte 7y ago
Already a lot of popular brand frames were made in Taiwan. Also, if enough manufacturing shifted to Taiwan, that itself might prompt a certain "stable genius" to add them to the list of tariff countries. Or China might become aggressive enough toward Taiwan that he would lump them with China in tariffs.
ereyes01 7y ago
If the recent tariffs are cited as the main reason for not making things in China, wouldn't things naturally reverse themselves when they are lifted? The tariffs strike me as an artifice that can't be sustained for a very long time- what is their lasting effect that changes the economics of manufacturing things in China?
- goodcjw2 7y ago
  Or what if China will play dirty and devaluates CNY against USD to offset the tariffs? This will be extremely bad and potentially means another escalation to the trade war...
kazinator 7y ago
Which parts of a better quality Giant bike are made in China, anyway? Maybe they hare having the Giant-branded frames made in China? (I'd be wary of this stuff, if true; a crappy frame can break and kill you.) Or perhaps tires. Kenda tires (Taiwan brand) are likely made in China. Nothing that you actually hang onto a frame to make a bike that is worth a damn comes from China: cassettes, rings, cranks, hubs, bottom brackets, shifter, brakes, rims, you name it. Only low-end garbage like SunRace cassettes, ProMax brakes and whatnot. Bike all around the world are typically the same in this way. The "brand" part of the bike goes into the frame, and then what's on it is third-party components from familiar brands. Some Shimano stuff is made in places like Indonesia. I don't recall having seen a "made in China" stamp on it, though.
- mikeryan 7y ago
  A lot of high end carbon bike frames come from China and or Taiwan.
ykevinator 7y ago
Moving from china to taiwan? Raise your hand if you still support trunp.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stevenwoo 7y ago
For a background on the bicycle manufacturing business, there is a section in this article (on starting a bicycle company) on the history of how bicycle manufacturing shifted to Asia. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/we-went-to-taiwan-and-started-a-bike-company.html https://www.pinkbike.com/news/we-went-to-taiwan-and-started-...
rorykoehler 7y ago
I own a 2017 Giant and it was made in Taiwan. They've always made their bikes in Taiwan. In fact Taiwan is the performance bike manufacturing capital of the world (largely thanks to Giant). Giant have carbon manufacturing techniques and knowledge that is renowned as the worlds best. All of this always happened in Taiwan.
mullingitover 7y ago
It's "over" until it isn't: > That’s why Giant is open to reverting production to its Chinese plants if the U.S. and China are able to hammer out a trade deal. If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said.
fnord77 7y ago
> Tariffs are adding $100 on average to the price of bicycles made in China and exported to the U.S., compared with those made in zero-tariff areas, Tu said, explaining the rationale for the switch to the Taiwanese site.
entee 7y ago
Ironically, the pic at the top of the article has many bikes painted "Trek" in the background despite the caption saying it's Giant's facility. In truth, pretty much every major bike manufacturer makes their frames in Taiwan, often in the same facilities. Decals and branding are applied after. There's a huge amount of manufacturing know-how and infrastructure around bike manufacture in Taiwan, especially around carbon fiber manufacturing. You can even go buy a carbon frame design in Taiwan, you pay more for the design if you want it to be exclusive. Therefore, it's not terribly surprising that they moved to Taiwan. If they were moving to the US that would be something.
- nerdwaller 7y ago
  For those interested in MTB, guerrilla gravity is designed and, as far as I know, built in Colorado. The reviews of their bikes (even aluminum frames) are resoundingly positive. Considering the price points they’re not one to overlook. https://ridegg.com/ https://ridegg.com/

202 points by adventured 7y ago

We just moved and needed to buy some new kitchenware. You would not believe how difficult it is to find so much as a spoon that is not made in China. Even from any name brand, even in a "fancy" store like Williams-Sonoma.

hashbig 7y ago
May I ask, why are you specifically looking for a spoon that isn't made in China?
- weiming 7y ago
  Assumption (partly from personal experience) that products may be more likely tainted with unknown or harmful substances for the sake of cost cutting somewhere in the pipeline.
  - user5994461 7y ago
    I feel your pain, recalling the last time I moved out. Buying anything on Amazon is a disaster. Friendly tip. Go to a local supermarket or department store and get what you need there. The item will for sure come from a normal manufacturer/brand and satisfy the local regulations against toxic plastic and stuff, even if it was made and imported from china.
    - silversconfused 7y ago
      We've been having good luck seeking out manufactures and buying directly from them instead of using amazon. It's often cheaper.
bpicolo 7y ago
Gotta be more targeted in your searches if that's what you care about. https://www.sherrillmfg.com/ https://www.sherrillmfg.com/ https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutlery https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/collections/flatware-cutl...
- weiming 7y ago
  Thank you. Looking Japanese stuff is a great idea. They are one of the few places to still keep some manufacturing "in-house." Searching is hard and companies are not always fully transparent about their process. E.g. "Assembled in the USA" for a frying pan could mean that the pan and handle are made in China, but riveted to each other in the USA. Sigh.
  - bpicolo 7y ago
    For nicer kitchenware, shy away from retail stores in general. Search out brands, find what nice restaurants are using - some fancy restaurants seek out small, artisanal manufacturers for sure. I remember Jungsik had all dinnerware from Korean artisans. Nice stuff.
nextos 7y ago
Try Sambonet for example, great quality, made in Italy. Or some WMF steel, made in Germany. Other components might come from China, though.
lesdeuxmagots 7y ago
Cutipol is Portuguese. Liberty Table Top still manufactures in the US.
kpU8efre7r 7y ago
Yep. I wanted a good American made roasting rack so I went to Williams Sonoma. They're all made in China now.
- sk5t 7y ago
  All-Clad (but not the HA2 line, I presume an MBA got their hooks into the operation) is still made in the USA.
thorin 7y ago
Pretty easy to find this kind of stuff in the UK, e.g. a lot of cutlery used to be made in Sheffield which is near to me and there still seems to be a demand. https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Old_English.html#SID=273 https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Old_English.html#SID...

nkozyra 7y ago

Amazing to see an anecdote like this trotted out as newsworthy. There are three total data points and two of them are incredibly vague. Honestly, this feels a bit like propaganda.

55555 7y ago
It's a company using politics to get free press. Nothing new here.
nafizh 7y ago
The title clearly says 'World's top bicycle maker says'. It's an opinion.
- afterburner 7y ago
  It's not opinion, it's an announcement that they're moving their manufacturing to Taiwan. "Giant Manufacturing is moving U.S. orders to Taiwan factory" "Giant" is the brand.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Yeah, not sure about how they're measuring. By market cap, Shimano is about four and a half times larger. P/E is very close between the two; Giant's PY return is about 77 times better than Shimano's.
  - wtallis 7y ago
    Shimano doesn't sell bicycles, just a lot of bicycle components and accessories.
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      Fair enough, I just couldn't think of any other manufacturers even in the industry that make more parts or complete bicycles (that I can actually buy) than Giant does.
  - 7y ago

avocado4 7y ago

Perhaps if manufacturers will move out of PRC into nearby countries it won't have a large effect on prices for consumers and businesses in the US, but at the same time will force China to make structural changes in adherence with the rules of global trade and human rights. Too bad Trump has alienated traditional US allies - if major economies teamed up in this effort it would have been a much easier goal.

jimmaswell 7y ago
I don't think allies are going to be permanently "alienated" by one president's remarks.
- petschge 7y ago
  The one idiot that the rest of the world ignored was Georg W. Bush. By electing a second, worse idiot the US has demonstrated to the world that they are no longer a viable long term partner.
  - tastygreenapple 7y ago
    The feeling is mutual, why do you think we elected Trump? Americans are sick and tired of America paying for the rest of the world. Enjoy investing in your own military, if you get invaded I hope the U.S doesn't lift a finger.
    - comicjk 7y ago
      If this was the reason you voted for Trump, I have some bad news about the trajectory of military spending.
    - dang 7y ago
      Posting political flamewar comments isn't ok here. Would you please review and follow the site guidelines so we don't have to ban you again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

jopsen 7y ago

This could just be a neat spin on a move towards automation :)

jakobegger 7y ago
Are there any robots yet that can weld bicycle frames? I thought that was still a job for humans...
- lostapathy 7y ago
  Robots weld all kinds of complicated things - cars for example. Why not bikes?
- razorunreal 7y ago
  This is actually weird to me. It seemed like it should be possible to stamp out bicycle frames like a car, so I researched it. Such a bike does exist, but is extremely expensive, which seems to defeat the purpose. Is it really not possible to streamline the manufacturing beyond welded tubes?
  - analog31 7y ago
    Lots of aluminum bike frames are already made from hydroformed tubes. Anything that looks like it wasn't just made from pipes, is molded. The question is whether making a frame from a smaller number of molded parts is cost effective. The different parts have to be of different thicknesses, and there's just the geometry puzzle of how to do it without ending up with a big seam that has to be welded anyway. Early Schwinn frames included parts (head tube, bottom bracket) that were formed from sheet metal. One thing about making tubes from tubing is that there's very little waste.
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    Not an expert but stamped parts are pretty weak from some angles, but perhaps you meant cold forged which is how aluminum bicycle cranks and some other parts are made - pressed using 100,000 pounds (or some big number depending on material) of pressure, this of course only works for mostly solid items. There is a huge cost in making a cold forge and a limited number of times a mold can be used before a new mold has to be made due to wear and tear. Frame quantities in the exact same shape are not that big, though, manufacturers do seem to come up with new models every few years. Making a frame from a solid piece of metal would make it very heavy increasing the material costs substantially, and counterintuitively - weaker than a tube for this application - there is a strength from the shape of a tube that a solid piece of the same metal does not have and if my memory serves right, the larger the inner radius, the greater the strength (of course you can make a tube so thin the first mishap with a vector in the wrong direction crushes it, but that's a different problem). I recall there being a magnesium frame that was a one piece thing a long time ago.

nextos 7y ago

I don't immediately discard an item because it's made in China, as I know of some high quality items made there. Most Apple products, some Xiaomi products or Meermin/Feit shoes. However, I tend to be very skeptical about its quality. Moving manufacturing to China is most often done to reduce cost. The only industry where it's not done due to cost, but supply chain issues, is electronics. And with cost reduction comes lower quality. Higher tolerances, zero pollution standards, etc. In particular, most items I got from China have this terrible new plastic smell that is almost intoxicating. Same for some clothing dyes. Studies show formaldehyde concentrations are really high in Chinese homes, and I'm not surprised. Hence, a few years ago I made a resolution to raise my standards and avoid those things. But it's a lot of trouble to find high quality items these days. I want to own few things and keep most for the rest of my life. I have slowly curated such a list, but it's as I said you need to go out of your way and often get custom things from niche brands. Once a big company in a particular industry moves to China, most will follow shortly. It's game theory. The average customer couldn't care less about things I mentioned above. Sadly, it's all about price. tl;dr As a consumer I miss much better reviews and reports on product quality, safety and repairability. I feel that'd improve the situation where most industries localize to China to cut costs at the expense of everything else due to information asymmetry.

josho 7y ago
> Sadly, it's all about price. It’s about price because consumers can’t measure by anything else. Eg. I can’t tell which of two products is manufactured to higher standards, nor which one isn’t infested with formaldehyde. Until consumers are able to determine those other factors then yes sadly it is all about price (and marketing).
- nextos 7y ago
  That's not entirely true. In the EU, there are lots of tags that guarantee product safety. CE marks (for electronics), OEKO-TEX (safe textiles), GOTS (organic textiles), etc. The US has some equivalent ones I am less familiar with. In fact, both OEKO-TEX and GOTS are global standards. Some Xiaomi products have not been imported to EU because they failed to obtain CE marks. And you'd never encounter a product that smells formaldehyde with an OEKO-TEX label. But I agree the information is quite asymmetric. As a customer, I want to know a lot more about how products are made. And I want to be able to repair them and source replacement parts.

walrus01 7y ago

If you know the bicycle industry, what's interesting is that Giant started out as a Taiwanese based manufacturer, and is probably going to go back there for some things. And to other places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia. They are actually not very much different from the top ten largest Taiwanese motherboard makers. All the motherboards used to be made in Taiwan (Hsin-Chu City, etc). For lower labor costs and other things they moved a lot of production to mainland China and kept the design/R&D/HQ in Taiwan. Now some things are going to go back the other way.

NorthOf33rd 7y ago
Even the parts still made in Taiwan are often made by imported labor, last time I visited a bike factory, many signs were _only_ in thai. Taiwanese labor is just too expensive to hit the margins targets US bike manufacturers are looking for. It looks like the shift that's been happening toward SE Asia will just accelerate.
- walrus01 7y ago
  a large number of taiwan based AC-to-DC and DC/DC power supply manufacturers (Delta, Zippy, etc) have opened factories in Thailand. If you look at the ATX power supplies sold on newegg for instance, there's about 60 different brand names, actually manufactured by about 12 different companies. I'd say at least half of those have moved manufacturing outside of mainland china because they have better labor/cost of operations opportunities elsewhere in developing parts of southeast asia.

mymythisisthis 7y ago

Bicycles are something that you need to be careful buying. Don't buy a BSO - a Bicycle Shaped Object. Just because it looks like a bike, doesn't mean you can comfortably ride it. An entry level bike is about $1200. You can comfortably ride it for hours, or up hills, carry a heavy load, it won't easily break, and it'll have a smooth ride. I feel bad for people that go out and buy a BSO; BSOs ruin cycling. We need to have laws in place to prevent crap from reaching the market.

nihonde 7y ago
I have to laugh at this. In Japan, my Chinese-made bicycle is bulletproof and entirely functional. It cost $150, shipped to my front door. It’s a folding bike with 9 speeds and disc brakes. I’ve ridden it day after day for years. It spent two years without shelter in the elements. It won’t win the Tour but it is a winner in every other way. You can tell me the environmental impact was horrendous and I would believe you, but the quality of this bicycle can’t be denied.
- davidw 7y ago
  Sounds like it's a decent commuter-ish bike? You don't see many of those in the US compared to places like Europe or in your case Japan. Probably because there's less of a market for them in the US. What the OP is probably thinking of is the crappy bikes you get at supermarkets, where the quality is really not very good, and they're assembled by someone who is not paying attention. Sometimes they try and look like a more expensive bike: front shocks, lots of gears and so on. The commuter bikes in Europe were, on the other hand, built with that in mind - big fenders, more upright position, and fairly rugged if not lightweight construction. You wouldn't mistake them for a bike you'd want to go on a long ride with.
- jwong_ 7y ago
  What's the bike you got? I am in the market for one in China, and have a hard time filtering for quality.
  - nihonde 7y ago

gravelc 7y ago

Giant is a Taiwanese company. I've had quite a few of their road bikes and mountain bikes over the years, and they have all been excellent - superbly designed and built. All made in Taiwan too - it seems only their cheaper frames are made in China (https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-factory/ https://cyclingtips.com/2015/02/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-fa...). From what I've heard, a majority of the world's high-end bicycle frames are manufactured by Giant and Pacific Cycles in Taiwan, then re-branded.

uxp100 7y ago
Yes. I think taiwan was/is a leader in Carbon Fiber. 90s carbon-fiber-glued-to-aluminum bikes were all made from CF tubing that was made in taiwan, by Giant (that last detail I'm a little less sure on, made in taiwan for certain). Specialized, Trek, and Giant all had very similar bikes available at that time, conventional geometries with Shimano 600 (I've got one, I love it). Modern monocoque designs are a little more diverse in design, but I think all but the highest end are made in taiwan.
phkahler 7y ago
But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China.
- stefantalpalaru 7y ago
  > But if you ask China, Taiwan is also China. It's the same if you ask Taiwan. Their official name is "Republic of China".
baroffoos 7y ago
I don't have a Giant bike but I have some giant accessories and they have all been to a very high standard.
NorthOf33rd 7y ago
Re-branded isn't quite correct, they are a contract manufacturer, so they are made specifically for the brands. Rebranded makes me think of open mold or catalog frames.

wintorez 7y ago

Amen!

blunte 7y ago

Already a lot of popular brand frames were made in Taiwan. Also, if enough manufacturing shifted to Taiwan, that itself might prompt a certain "stable genius" to add them to the list of tariff countries. Or China might become aggressive enough toward Taiwan that he would lump them with China in tariffs.

ereyes01 7y ago

If the recent tariffs are cited as the main reason for not making things in China, wouldn't things naturally reverse themselves when they are lifted? The tariffs strike me as an artifice that can't be sustained for a very long time- what is their lasting effect that changes the economics of manufacturing things in China?

goodcjw2 7y ago
Or what if China will play dirty and devaluates CNY against USD to offset the tariffs? This will be extremely bad and potentially means another escalation to the trade war...

kazinator 7y ago

Which parts of a better quality Giant bike are made in China, anyway? Maybe they hare having the Giant-branded frames made in China? (I'd be wary of this stuff, if true; a crappy frame can break and kill you.) Or perhaps tires. Kenda tires (Taiwan brand) are likely made in China. Nothing that you actually hang onto a frame to make a bike that is worth a damn comes from China: cassettes, rings, cranks, hubs, bottom brackets, shifter, brakes, rims, you name it. Only low-end garbage like SunRace cassettes, ProMax brakes and whatnot. Bike all around the world are typically the same in this way. The "brand" part of the bike goes into the frame, and then what's on it is third-party components from familiar brands. Some Shimano stuff is made in places like Indonesia. I don't recall having seen a "made in China" stamp on it, though.

mikeryan 7y ago
A lot of high end carbon bike frames come from China and or Taiwan.

ykevinator 7y ago

Moving from china to taiwan? Raise your hand if you still support trunp.

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stevenwoo 7y ago

For a background on the bicycle manufacturing business, there is a section in this article (on starting a bicycle company) on the history of how bicycle manufacturing shifted to Asia. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/we-went-to-taiwan-and-started-a-bike-company.html https://www.pinkbike.com/news/we-went-to-taiwan-and-started-...

rorykoehler 7y ago

I own a 2017 Giant and it was made in Taiwan. They've always made their bikes in Taiwan. In fact Taiwan is the performance bike manufacturing capital of the world (largely thanks to Giant). Giant have carbon manufacturing techniques and knowledge that is renowned as the worlds best. All of this always happened in Taiwan.

mullingitover 7y ago

It's "over" until it isn't: > That’s why Giant is open to reverting production to its Chinese plants if the U.S. and China are able to hammer out a trade deal. If America “decides to remove the 25% tariff, we will move the production back to China right away,” Tu said.

fnord77 7y ago

> Tariffs are adding $100 on average to the price of bicycles made in China and exported to the U.S., compared with those made in zero-tariff areas, Tu said, explaining the rationale for the switch to the Taiwanese site.

entee 7y ago

Ironically, the pic at the top of the article has many bikes painted "Trek" in the background despite the caption saying it's Giant's facility. In truth, pretty much every major bike manufacturer makes their frames in Taiwan, often in the same facilities. Decals and branding are applied after. There's a huge amount of manufacturing know-how and infrastructure around bike manufacture in Taiwan, especially around carbon fiber manufacturing. You can even go buy a carbon frame design in Taiwan, you pay more for the design if you want it to be exclusive. Therefore, it's not terribly surprising that they moved to Taiwan. If they were moving to the US that would be something.

nerdwaller 7y ago
For those interested in MTB, guerrilla gravity is designed and, as far as I know, built in Colorado. The reviews of their bikes (even aluminum frames) are resoundingly positive. Considering the price points they’re not one to overlook. https://ridegg.com/ https://ridegg.com/