14 ms·

It's funny how the dashboard UI of lower-end cars tends to be consistently better than higher-end cars, because low end cars simply have a bunch of buttons that

It's funny how the dashboard UI of lower-end cars tends to be consistently better than higher-end cars, because low end cars simply have a bunch of buttons that you can use without taking your eyes of the road. Sometimes even the location of controls is much better in low end cars; the VW up! comes to mind with all important controls located directly next to the steering wheel. Beautiful. In other cars just switching the radio off has you reaching for a button somewhere between the not-ashtray and the backside of the moon.

lloeki 7y ago
My current and favorite car is a '08 Euro Civic (Type-R). The whole design and layout of things there is pure genius, thoroughly designed from first principles. It takes many people aback but the hierarchy of information is very well thought out: critical up the wheel†† that you can read without taking eyes off the road (speed, turn signals, RPM limit, live cam profile (from ECU cam phasing/VTEC as an eco progress bar† or VTEC led depending on engine)), secondary behind the wheel (RPM dial, fuel, cooling liquid temp), tertiary left/right hand side (depending if you're brit/jap or the rest of the world; clock, head unit AC) of the driver, all angled properly towards the driver and minimising glare, all knobs and buttons can be actioned upon either without leaving the hands off the wheel or only leaving them for the shorter amount of time, Fitt's law everywhere, with big knobs/buttons for big things, small ones for small things. No gorilla arm effect anywhere, even the window controls on door armrests fall naturally under the hand and "dangerous" things are purposely made easy-but-difficult to reach (VSA switch, dashboard backlight). Oh, and the UI of that little screen is so well thought out, well-laid-out information and navigation across various more detailed info, with a notification system that pops an (i) in the critical area and actual info front and center (low fuel, low oil pressure, freezing conditions...). Even the various beeps have sensible meaning conveyed. It's so good I wanted to write an actual article just about it. Touchscreen dashboards just make zero sense when you thoughtfully experienced that. (The same-year US market one (which is a completely different car) for that same generation is similar but really not as good. Sadly They later moved to a more traditional design on the new ones) But it's unusual and scares people, like OMG there are so many buttons, this looks like an airplane cockpit. https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Honda_Civic_Type-R_005.jpg https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Honda... (if you get the GPS option the screen takes place of the clock/head unit display) † not a gamified tally like they did with the Insight and CR-Z, but a real-time thing. †† not a ridiculously small heads-up air fighter thing like Peugeot does that gets unreadable depending on light conditions
- sundvor 7y ago
  Nice! Honda have always put some great effort into their designs. I had an Accord Euro Luxury '05 some 14 years ago, and it was such a pleasure to drive around. Still regret selling it. It was the first semi affordable car on the Australian market to offer stability control and full set of airbags (as long as you got the luxury model). I'd love to read that article you proposed. As much as I'd love a Tesla, my last #2 car (now sold) was a '14 Mazda 3 Astina and the rotary knob just worked so well - and so did the buttons, not to mention that simple heads up display, that I felt this is better than what the expensive cars are getting. I have an eye for the new Civic Type R; it looks like the engineers had a field day designing that. For now, just riding a bike as health for this ageing office chair worker had to take priority.
  - mikelward 7y ago
    Not in the CR-V they didn't. The entertainment system is an underpowered Android tablet. Lots of questionable decisions like the keyless lock system not locking if the tailgate was closing as you walk away, there being no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on, and the engine cutting out as you try to drive off if you started it via remote start.
    - RankingMember 7y ago
      Your "no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on" complaint doesn't make sense to me, as the AC compressor is powered by the engine's accessory drive belt, which won't turn if the engine's off. Otherwise, those sound like fair complaints. I'd add that Honda tried to go to a touch-based volume control in 2015/2016 and it was universally panned for its poor responsiveness and requirement that users take their eyes off the road to adjust radio volume. Can't win'em all I guess.
      - mikelward 7y ago
        Yeah, I wasn't sure about the AC. My actual use case is it leave music playing over Bluetooth or Android Auto.
lostjohnny 7y ago
Renault have had controls on the steering wheel for at least 20 years now and it's still one of the best interfaces I've ever tried. The first car I bought with my own money was a Clio and the ability to control the integrated radio system without looking at it or having to take away the hands from the wheel made that car my favourite place to listen to music. As a matter of fact I miss it so much that nowadays I almost don't listen to music while driving anymore. EDIT for reference the whole music controlling part was like [1], the source button switched from FM radio/AM radio/CD player and it had a wheel on the back that skipped CD tracks or radio stations, according to the current source. If I remember correctly the lower button ejected a CD in CD mode or changed from saved station to manual tuning in radio mode. If you pulled both the volume buttons at the same time, it muted the radio and paused the CD player. [1] https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/8200058695/part/steering-wheel-mounted-radio-control/partid/7151550/ https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-...
- agumonkey 7y ago
  There should be a company selling ergonomics improvement kits for cars.
  - moftz 7y ago
    You can buy little bluetooth remote controls that strap onto your steering wheel. They don't look great and you have to charge them. The charge thing is really annoying now that many cars turn off the power outlets when the car is off. I remember never really having a dead battery in my devices because they could just charge while I was parked either at work or running errands.
    - jpindar 7y ago
      In many cars that's easy to fix. Just replace one relay with a jumper. Standard wire terminals fit in the relay sockets so it's not a permanent modification.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
bloopernova 7y ago
My wife recently had the chance to use 3 different car UIs. Our own little Hyundai Elantra GT 2013. No touch screen. Connect Android phone via bluetooth. Run Android Auto app. Navigate, stream music, etc etc. We're both used to this, so it's very ingrained/easy to use the phone's touchscreen to navigate the UI. Mercedes C300. Big screen, but not a touch screen. You had to twist a joystick then move it up/down/left/right depending on... something. That UI control mechanism did not work well with Android Auto, since there were different "sections" to each screen. You had to figure out via trial and error which joystick control method to use to switch sections. Plus sometimes moving the joystick would twist it, thus ruining whatever UI navigation you were trying to perform. Hyundai Sonata 2019. Big touch screen. Worked perfectly with Android Auto. Not one single "mis-click" like with the Mercedes.
leeoniya 7y ago
i bought a VW Golf Alltrack (vw golf sportwagon). instead of an Audi Allroad because of this. the audi controls were more clumsy and less useful despite the car being an extra $20k. the audi was also not available with a manual transmission and the hatch opened slowly, insisting on an always-on electronic assist. quite disappointing.
- abakker 7y ago
  I HATE that always on electric assist. It is both expensive and annoying. Gas springs cost $20. IMO, only pickup trucks really know how to get this stuff right now, and that's mostly because there's so much space that the buttons can be giant.
amluto 7y ago
Real low-end cars don’t have a thermostat at all, so you’re constantly fiddling with the HVAC controls to maintain comfort. It’s the mid-range cars that get it right :)
TACIXAT 7y ago
Unfortunately, I bought the cheapest wrangler I could (no power windows) and it still came with a touch screen. It is the biggest piece of crap. It won't default to Bluetooth. It will default to the radio, loudly, with an undismissable safety agreement that blocks all interaction for 5 seconds. The only loophole I've found is an aux cable, which it will default to. I would much prefer a radio.
raydev 7y ago
Ignoring the radio and focusing only on airflow controls: I dearly miss the console in my base model 2006 Yaris. It had 3 Fisher Price-sized knobs that I never had to look at when switching from feet/defog/face, changing temperature, and fan speed. It never stressed me, and each position on the knob had a satisfying clunk. I "upgraded" to a 2017 Subaru and the air controls are laid out with completely flat, indistinct buttons. The only knob is for temperature. Any time I need to change air position or speed, I need to take my eyes off the road and find the button, and then tap it multiple times to get to the right position. I also drove a friend's 201x Civic for a couple months, and the air controls were actually worse: tiny buttons, tiny display showing what settings are current. Bring back Fisher Price knobs, please.
- infecto 7y ago
  I have a 08 Yaris Hatchback...best controls ever. And yes those knobs make the clunk feel and noise....I love it.
  - SECProto 7y ago
    The whole air system in the Yaris is great. I recently left my car sitting for a while, and a chipmunk made a nest with the cabin air filter material. I looked under the glove box, unscrewed three Phillips head screws to drop the blower, cleaned it all out and screwed it back in. No messing around with body panels or other parts that were in the way, no custom or odd-size connectors. A mechanically simple system, easy to access and maintain.
- bdamm 7y ago
  Thanks, now I can appreciate my 2013 VW Jetta TDI with its three fisher-price knobs for air control, which work just as you describe.
- NegativeK 7y ago
  The 2017 Subaru I have has freewheeling software knobs for most functions and all of the info is displayed in the near-windshield display. Even when I have to take over from full auto control, it's pretty quick and close to my sight-line.
joezydeco 7y ago
Mazda is guilty of this, too. Compare the HVAC control on the base model Mazda3: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xqIAAOSwlv9aU8Hh/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xqIAAOSwlv9aU8Hh/s-l1600.jpg With the HVAC control on the higher trim lines: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xdav_EsJ3bQ/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xdav_EsJ3bQ/maxresdefault.jpg The older/cheaper interface is WAY easier to control. Changing vent operation or fan speed on the new interface always takes way more button pushes and time until it's in the state I want.
api 7y ago
I have a 2013 Leaf and would rather swap the battery somehow than upgrade because the newer ones all have less tactile controls and more worthless, brittle, privacy invading fad driven bullshit. Lower end cars are often more reliable too owing in part to simpler designs. Some of the highest end luxury and status symbol cars have frequent issues and high repair costs.
glaurung_ 7y ago
> somewhere between the not-ashtray and the backside of the moon. This makes me crazy. I used to drive a '99 Mazda b2500 (basically a Ford Ranger). I could reach any of the controls without even leaning forward. In a newer f150 that I used to drive for work the reach for the volume knob seems to be about the same distance as the reach to the passenger window crank in my old truck.

lloeki 7y ago

My current and favorite car is a '08 Euro Civic (Type-R). The whole design and layout of things there is pure genius, thoroughly designed from first principles. It takes many people aback but the hierarchy of information is very well thought out: critical up the wheel†† that you can read without taking eyes off the road (speed, turn signals, RPM limit, live cam profile (from ECU cam phasing/VTEC as an eco progress bar† or VTEC led depending on engine)), secondary behind the wheel (RPM dial, fuel, cooling liquid temp), tertiary left/right hand side (depending if you're brit/jap or the rest of the world; clock, head unit AC) of the driver, all angled properly towards the driver and minimising glare, all knobs and buttons can be actioned upon either without leaving the hands off the wheel or only leaving them for the shorter amount of time, Fitt's law everywhere, with big knobs/buttons for big things, small ones for small things. No gorilla arm effect anywhere, even the window controls on door armrests fall naturally under the hand and "dangerous" things are purposely made easy-but-difficult to reach (VSA switch, dashboard backlight). Oh, and the UI of that little screen is so well thought out, well-laid-out information and navigation across various more detailed info, with a notification system that pops an (i) in the critical area and actual info front and center (low fuel, low oil pressure, freezing conditions...). Even the various beeps have sensible meaning conveyed. It's so good I wanted to write an actual article just about it. Touchscreen dashboards just make zero sense when you thoughtfully experienced that. (The same-year US market one (which is a completely different car) for that same generation is similar but really not as good. Sadly They later moved to a more traditional design on the new ones) But it's unusual and scares people, like OMG there are so many buttons, this looks like an airplane cockpit. https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Honda_Civic_Type-R_005.jpg https://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Honda... (if you get the GPS option the screen takes place of the clock/head unit display) † not a gamified tally like they did with the Insight and CR-Z, but a real-time thing. †† not a ridiculously small heads-up air fighter thing like Peugeot does that gets unreadable depending on light conditions

sundvor 7y ago
Nice! Honda have always put some great effort into their designs. I had an Accord Euro Luxury '05 some 14 years ago, and it was such a pleasure to drive around. Still regret selling it. It was the first semi affordable car on the Australian market to offer stability control and full set of airbags (as long as you got the luxury model). I'd love to read that article you proposed. As much as I'd love a Tesla, my last #2 car (now sold) was a '14 Mazda 3 Astina and the rotary knob just worked so well - and so did the buttons, not to mention that simple heads up display, that I felt this is better than what the expensive cars are getting. I have an eye for the new Civic Type R; it looks like the engineers had a field day designing that. For now, just riding a bike as health for this ageing office chair worker had to take priority.
- mikelward 7y ago
  Not in the CR-V they didn't. The entertainment system is an underpowered Android tablet. Lots of questionable decisions like the keyless lock system not locking if the tailgate was closing as you walk away, there being no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on, and the engine cutting out as you try to drive off if you started it via remote start.
  - RankingMember 7y ago
    Your "no way to turn the car off but leave the radio or AC on" complaint doesn't make sense to me, as the AC compressor is powered by the engine's accessory drive belt, which won't turn if the engine's off. Otherwise, those sound like fair complaints. I'd add that Honda tried to go to a touch-based volume control in 2015/2016 and it was universally panned for its poor responsiveness and requirement that users take their eyes off the road to adjust radio volume. Can't win'em all I guess.
    - mikelward 7y ago
      Yeah, I wasn't sure about the AC. My actual use case is it leave music playing over Bluetooth or Android Auto.

lostjohnny 7y ago

Renault have had controls on the steering wheel for at least 20 years now and it's still one of the best interfaces I've ever tried. The first car I bought with my own money was a Clio and the ability to control the integrated radio system without looking at it or having to take away the hands from the wheel made that car my favourite place to listen to music. As a matter of fact I miss it so much that nowadays I almost don't listen to music while driving anymore. EDIT for reference the whole music controlling part was like [1], the source button switched from FM radio/AM radio/CD player and it had a wheel on the back that skipped CD tracks or radio stations, according to the current source. If I remember correctly the lower button ejected a CD in CD mode or changed from saved station to manual tuning in radio mode. If you pulled both the volume buttons at the same time, it muted the radio and paused the CD player. [1] https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/8200058695/part/steering-wheel-mounted-radio-control/partid/7151550/ https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-...

agumonkey 7y ago
There should be a company selling ergonomics improvement kits for cars.
- moftz 7y ago
  You can buy little bluetooth remote controls that strap onto your steering wheel. They don't look great and you have to charge them. The charge thing is really annoying now that many cars turn off the power outlets when the car is off. I remember never really having a dead battery in my devices because they could just charge while I was parked either at work or running errands.
  - jpindar 7y ago
    In many cars that's easy to fix. Just replace one relay with a jumper. Standard wire terminals fit in the relay sockets so it's not a permanent modification.
  - agumonkey 7y ago

bloopernova 7y ago

My wife recently had the chance to use 3 different car UIs. Our own little Hyundai Elantra GT 2013. No touch screen. Connect Android phone via bluetooth. Run Android Auto app. Navigate, stream music, etc etc. We're both used to this, so it's very ingrained/easy to use the phone's touchscreen to navigate the UI. Mercedes C300. Big screen, but not a touch screen. You had to twist a joystick then move it up/down/left/right depending on... something. That UI control mechanism did not work well with Android Auto, since there were different "sections" to each screen. You had to figure out via trial and error which joystick control method to use to switch sections. Plus sometimes moving the joystick would twist it, thus ruining whatever UI navigation you were trying to perform. Hyundai Sonata 2019. Big touch screen. Worked perfectly with Android Auto. Not one single "mis-click" like with the Mercedes.

leeoniya 7y ago

i bought a VW Golf Alltrack (vw golf sportwagon). instead of an Audi Allroad because of this. the audi controls were more clumsy and less useful despite the car being an extra $20k. the audi was also not available with a manual transmission and the hatch opened slowly, insisting on an always-on electronic assist. quite disappointing.

abakker 7y ago
I HATE that always on electric assist. It is both expensive and annoying. Gas springs cost $20. IMO, only pickup trucks really know how to get this stuff right now, and that's mostly because there's so much space that the buttons can be giant.

amluto 7y ago

Real low-end cars don’t have a thermostat at all, so you’re constantly fiddling with the HVAC controls to maintain comfort. It’s the mid-range cars that get it right :)

TACIXAT 7y ago

Unfortunately, I bought the cheapest wrangler I could (no power windows) and it still came with a touch screen. It is the biggest piece of crap. It won't default to Bluetooth. It will default to the radio, loudly, with an undismissable safety agreement that blocks all interaction for 5 seconds. The only loophole I've found is an aux cable, which it will default to. I would much prefer a radio.

raydev 7y ago

Ignoring the radio and focusing only on airflow controls: I dearly miss the console in my base model 2006 Yaris. It had 3 Fisher Price-sized knobs that I never had to look at when switching from feet/defog/face, changing temperature, and fan speed. It never stressed me, and each position on the knob had a satisfying clunk. I "upgraded" to a 2017 Subaru and the air controls are laid out with completely flat, indistinct buttons. The only knob is for temperature. Any time I need to change air position or speed, I need to take my eyes off the road and find the button, and then tap it multiple times to get to the right position. I also drove a friend's 201x Civic for a couple months, and the air controls were actually worse: tiny buttons, tiny display showing what settings are current. Bring back Fisher Price knobs, please.

infecto 7y ago
I have a 08 Yaris Hatchback...best controls ever. And yes those knobs make the clunk feel and noise....I love it.
- SECProto 7y ago
  The whole air system in the Yaris is great. I recently left my car sitting for a while, and a chipmunk made a nest with the cabin air filter material. I looked under the glove box, unscrewed three Phillips head screws to drop the blower, cleaned it all out and screwed it back in. No messing around with body panels or other parts that were in the way, no custom or odd-size connectors. A mechanically simple system, easy to access and maintain.
bdamm 7y ago
Thanks, now I can appreciate my 2013 VW Jetta TDI with its three fisher-price knobs for air control, which work just as you describe.
NegativeK 7y ago
The 2017 Subaru I have has freewheeling software knobs for most functions and all of the info is displayed in the near-windshield display. Even when I have to take over from full auto control, it's pretty quick and close to my sight-line.

joezydeco 7y ago

Mazda is guilty of this, too. Compare the HVAC control on the base model Mazda3: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xqIAAOSwlv9aU8Hh/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xqIAAOSwlv9aU8Hh/s-l1600.jpg With the HVAC control on the higher trim lines: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xdav_EsJ3bQ/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xdav_EsJ3bQ/maxresdefault.jpg The older/cheaper interface is WAY easier to control. Changing vent operation or fan speed on the new interface always takes way more button pushes and time until it's in the state I want.

api 7y ago

I have a 2013 Leaf and would rather swap the battery somehow than upgrade because the newer ones all have less tactile controls and more worthless, brittle, privacy invading fad driven bullshit. Lower end cars are often more reliable too owing in part to simpler designs. Some of the highest end luxury and status symbol cars have frequent issues and high repair costs.

glaurung_ 7y ago

> somewhere between the not-ashtray and the backside of the moon. This makes me crazy. I used to drive a '99 Mazda b2500 (basically a Ford Ranger). I could reach any of the controls without even leaning forward. In a newer f150 that I used to drive for work the reach for the volume knob seems to be about the same distance as the reach to the passenger window crank in my old truck.