16 ms·

Gimp 2.10.12

192 points by Ultramanoid 7y ago

Kaiyou 7y ago
Still can't get over the user hostile changes in 2.8 (save/export) and will stick to 2.6.
- lucideer 7y ago
  2.8 was.... 2012. If you're waiting for them to revert your pet change, you might be waiting some time. Are you referring to the separation of the export functionality into a distinct menu item. Is this really something you can't get used to over a 7 year period (particularly when this is how every other similar application does it)?
  - elliotpage 7y ago
    If you need a bespoke dialog box to chastise you for following an expected workflow, then your user experience is lacking. The Save/Export split still catches me out. I'm not about to burn the barn down, but each time it makes me grunt in frustration.
    - mFixman 7y ago
      https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      > for following an expected workflow Practically every image editor on the planet split saving in the application's native file format and exporting to foreign file formats. Hell, even document editors do this. The expected workflow is, therefore, that exporting is a different dialogue. Not terribly hard.
      - ubercow13 7y ago
        Is this true? As far as I remember you can save to, for example, JPEG in Photoshop and PDF in Word using the normal save dialogs.
        mopsi 7y ago
        PDFs have been under Export since Office 2010 for better clarity.
        baud147258 7y ago
        I just checked, I can still save as a pdf in Word 2016. So it's in two different places
      - Crinus 7y ago
        > Practically every image editor on the planet I do not have many editors installed here, but Paint does have all formats on Save. Paint Shop Pro also has all formats on Save. I do not have it installed, from what i can see in the documentation[0] Paint.Net also has all formats on Save. LazPaint also has all formats on Save. I'm sure i can find many others if look for (i think GraphicsGale for example also does that but i'm not 100% sure). Those are from the top of my head. Maybe with "Practically every image editor" you really meant "Photoshop"? Because Photoshop isn't the be all end all of all image editors nor all image editors are meant to be Photoshop clones. [0] https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8 https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8
        zapzupnz 7y ago
        I don't use Photoshop.
    - unixhero 7y ago
      Native file format interaction with SAVE and export as through a spooler with post processing, what's not to like.
  - laurent123456 7y ago
    To be fair there has not been any significant changes in 7 years (just minor improvements and bug fixes) so it doesn't make a big difference to stick with "old" versions. I've been waiting for about as long for GIMP 3 and the non-destructive editing feature, but not sure it will ever be done.
    - filmor 7y ago
      2.6 was released in 2008, 11 years ago, and since then the gegl backend, single window mode, layer groups, color management, and lots of additional features were introduced. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 on what you are missing out, especially by ignoring 2.10. GIMP 2.99.2 (first prerelease of the GTK3 version) is supposed to come out this year: https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/ https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/
    - lucideer 7y ago
      I'm not a hugely active GIMP user, but even from a distance I've noticed significantly more changes in the past 7 years than previously. If anything it's accelerating.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      What? GIMP has been totally reskinned and a whole lot of under-the-hood and feature changes have taken place. Do you actually read their release notes? Progress has been steady on the non-destructive editing front. It's taken a complete engine rewrite to get the necessary prerequisite features in place. Why don't you dive in and lend a hand instead of lamenting over how long it's taken?
  - Crinus 7y ago
    I also dislike this change and i use GIMP for almost 15 years. The Export As dialog serves no purpose, the Save As dialog can support all the formats like it did before and if someone wants to save the currently edited image in another format they can use the "Save a copy as" command (which again should support all formats) which can be made to provide the exact same functionality as the Export As command and "Export" be made (and perhaps renamed to something more appropriate) to simply repeat whatever "Save a copy as" did. This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). Of course GIMP is free and open source so it isn't like they owe anyone a better UX or anything, they could replace all brushes with bananas and drop all file formats except BMP and nobody would have any right to demand anything from them. But at the same time that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop others from calling stinky something that smells bad.
    - this_was_posted 7y ago
      > This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). I can imagine that they made the change due to many beginners being confused about having lost editing capabilities by storing their work as a png. The developers probably spend quite some time on the fora where users report these kinds of questions, so I don't think it is all that arrogant of them to believe that they know what causes confusion and what doesn't. Thinking that as a single user you are more knowledgeable on what is better for the over all ux than the actual developers, that I do think could be seen a little bit arrogant.
      - Crinus 7y ago
        This can be solved in the same way other applications that can save to multiple formats solve it: if you only use the functionality the target format supports, saving works transparently (so, e.g., you can create an image, draw an arrow and save it as a PNG). If you try to use functionality that the target format doesn't support (e.g. layers on PNG) then GIMP should display a warning dialog about it, perhaps with an option to save as a XCF instead (but not default on it). This has two additional benefits: 1. the beginner will stop be a beginner at some point, will be informed about the target format they are trying to use and will know how to save, save as, etc so this issue will stop be a problem for them and 2. it will get rid of the useless and annoying "do you want to save" warning whenever you want to create a non-XCF image file (because you already saved with "Export", you just didn't save the image as an XCF). The current approach makes the (wrong) assumption that everyone works with XCF files and only exports to other formats. This might be true for some cases, but a lot of people want to work with other formats directly.
  - apexalpha 7y ago
    A bunch of people spend A LOT of their time developing a FOSS alternative to photoshop and the first comment online is someone bitching about a small GUI change 7 years ago. Classic open source community. Sorry to say it. This is the exact reason Libre Office looks like it's from 1996 and it stops normal users from using it.
    - llukas 7y ago
      I was casual user of gimp for simple editing tasks. I stopped using it as gimp not only broke existing behavior but is "special" in that regard - other programs follow standard. No hard feelings :) Libre office added ribbons etc as an option. It is not forced on anybody.
      - scoutt 7y ago
        I also use gimp for simple "cleanup" tasks and brightness/contrast. I wonder, what is the alternative you are using now, and if it's free like gimp?
        llukas 7y ago
        ksnapshot, krita/inkscape, gwenview, darkroom, rawtherapee
        prokoudine 7y ago
        darkroom is called darktable :)
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      I doubt that many people really care that much about how Libre Office looks. They probably care more about things like the damn math being wrong unless you force recalculation, something I encounter frequently in documents created by Libre Office and read in the same version of Libre Office.
      - 7y ago
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    I'm happy using Gimp 2.6 now, I'll be happy using it forever.
  - OrgNet 7y ago
    I'm just starting to get used to it... (I still think about it every time I save/export, not sure why)
- harel 7y ago
  What do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...
  - alpaca128 7y ago
    It's not hostile but it feels completely unnecessary. I don't see any UX improvement by splitting up multiple options of a single feature into two separate menus.
    - NikkiA 7y ago
      It stops people saving a master copy as .xcf, then saving as png to export, then hitting Ctrl-S and thinking they've saved their master copy when they haven't. As such it is most definitely a positive change, even if it does go against my 'muscle' memory of how I used to work it, and cause me to 'doh' more often than I should.
      - cygx 7y ago
        On the flip side, it complicates workflows with non-xcf master copies.
      - Kaiyou 7y ago
        I've been using gimp since at least 2003 and never used .xcf files. Sometimes I accidentally saved as .xcf which was a huge bother, since that file format is useless outside of gimp.
    - uryga 7y ago
      i think of exporting like compiling. the .xcf is the "source" (layers, non-destructive effects, vector paths, etc), and i only want to save when i'm working on that. when i want to "build" it into a flat .png that people can actually use, i export it.
      - Kaiyou 7y ago
        If possible, I'd like to completely get rid of everything xcf inside gimp. It's useless overhead to me.
- Theizestooke 7y ago
  I'm still using 2.8 because large pictures don't make the computer chug. Maybe they fixed this.
- amiga-workbench 7y ago
  That caught me out for all of two days before I got ctrl+s/ctrl+e down to muscle memory.
- teekert 7y ago
  If you think you are saving all your hard work in gimp inside a JPG, you are in for a nice surprise. I think the "new" way makes much more sense.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    No, I'm not, since I know what I am doing.
    - yason 7y ago
      I know what I'm doing, too. Thus, I can learn to use another menu item to do what I want. The save vs export change only hits against habits. It took me a while to figure it out at the time but these days I practically only ever use "Export as" because I know what I want and I know what I'm doing, and how to do it in later Gimp versions. While I didn't like the change it does make sense. Loading and saving in Gimp is about native formats. Saving to a bitmap format loses much of the data so calling it an export is quite appropriate. Before, Gimp was always nagging about whether I'm sure I want to save as jpeg because I wouldn't be saving my Gimp state that way. That wasn't pleasant either.
      - Crinus 7y ago
        Even if you use Export to save, GIMP will complain that you didn't save the image you just saved because you wanted to use a format others can open as opposed to the format it wants to push. It is not a major issue, but it still is an annoyance you have to face constantly if you want to work with other file formats directly as opposed to treating them as second class citizens regardless of what sort of editing you are doing.
        pessimizer 7y ago
        If you save a png to a jpg, you'd expect a warning. Saving an image that you're working with to a standard image format is a lossy conversion.
stOneskull 7y ago
gimp is great a great tool and a great example of free software
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Definitely! With gtk as a small "waste product".
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Why do you think Gtk is a waste product?
    - deathtrader666 7y ago
      I think he meant GTk as a "side product"..
    - raxxorrax 7y ago
      Just trying to be snarky. GTK is awesome of course. I just like the story about how GTK was crafted for GIMP and since then spread to many other places. I still often hear about it being referred to as Gnome Tool Kit for example.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > Just trying to be snarky. I think that's explicitly against the site guidelines here.
        Synaesthesia 7y ago
        Can’t tell if sarcastic.
        grzm 7y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > "In Comments" > "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
tokai 7y ago
Nice with tiff layers! Also the offset tool is a nice small addition. Green Is My Pepper.
- cpach 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, in what kinds of situations would one like to use layers in a TIFF file?
  - ktpsns 7y ago
    Oh, there are several programs which generate such files, for instance some flatbed scanners. Also amongst Adobe Photoshop® professionals, for some reason multilayer TIFF is the format to go with (don't know why -- maybe because it is still popular in DTP/printing?)
    - VvR-Ox 7y ago
      Exactly, TIFF is very popular because of the printing process. You don't need layers for that of course and under normal circumstances you'd export your layered file to a one-layer TIFF.
  - johnchristopher 7y ago
    Subtitling industry. 20 years ago. I seem to remember handling TIFF files for oriental scripts.
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      This is correct. Not sure if still true nowadays but even 10 years ago you could find Asian subtitles in TIFF formats on some DVDs.
  - zubspace 7y ago
    I sometimes see them being used as an archive format, where PDF's are converted to tiff beforehand. Each page on a separate layer.
  - 7y ago
snvzz 7y ago
>GIMP 2.10.12 is mostly a bug fix release as some annoying bugs were discovered, which is to be expected after a 2.10.10 with so many changes! Why do we care about a minor bugfix release?
- cpach 7y ago
  Improved Curves tool • Layers support for TIFF exporting • Support for user-installed fonts on Windows • Faster painting • Improved symmetry painting support • Incremental mode in the Dodge/Burn tool • Free Select tool now creates a preliminary selection • New Offset tool
  - snvzz 7y ago
    Aren't those part of an older 2.10.10 release? The changes page is confusing, but this is what I understand from looking at it.
    - Liquid_Fire 7y ago
      It says: > Still, some very cool improvements are also available: ...before listing those changes. So the changes are from this release. It's just easy to miss that sentence because of the large comic.
    - prokoudine 7y ago
      How is it confusing, exactly?
- OrgNet 7y ago
  they are under stating the value of this release (because it also comes with a few improvements)
Funes- 7y ago
Whenever some piece of free software is discussed, there has to be someone that demands former features to come back or new ones to be added. Nothing wrong with suggesting changes to the software, but demanding them? Go fork it if you want it so bad instead of complaining to people who most probably aren't even being paid.
- Crinus 7y ago
  How do you differentiate between suggesting and demanding?
  - jkoudys 7y ago
    Sentiment analysis.
    - Crinus 7y ago
      No sure what you mean? What sentiment and how would you analyze it?
  - Funes- 7y ago
    Besides the actual words from which you can--most of the time--immediately see or at least infer where the comment falls into: politeness and tone. I don't think it's usually hard to know if someone is being aggressive and demanding about it, as far as I can say.
    - Crinus 7y ago
      So the difference is really how you perceive what someone is writing? What if your perception is wrong?
      - Funes- 7y ago
        Isn't that how all communication works? Aren't you relying on your perception and cognitive abilities to interpret my comments to reply to them accordingly? What exactly are we discussing here? Of course my personal interpretations could be wrong; nonetheless, clear-cut cases of users complaining and demonstrating entitlement towards free software developers is something I cannot possibly endorse.
jmalkin 7y ago
I love gimp, love that it's free, but I really wish they paid a little more attention to the usability There's all these minor issues that get on your nerves If it was just a bit more user friendly, I would not need Photoshop
- Funes- 7y ago
  >There's all these minor issues that get on your nerves Have you tried reaching out to the developers in order to make your issues visible?
- ogrisel 7y ago
  The blog post highlights specifically usability improvements so they do pay attention to the usability. Rather that state vague generic complaints, please be more constructive and be specific by highlighting the most important usability issues you encountered in your own experience and see if other users agree with your analysis by reporting it to the issue tracker.
  - jmalkin 7y ago
    This wasn't the place to list all my specific complaints, so I didn't
    - prokoudine 7y ago
      https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues, however, is exactly the place ;-)
      - jmalkin 7y ago
        I think UX issues, without data backing them up, are just opinions for the most part. I don't feel very comfortable putting them in a bug tracker. I wonder if they have UX trained people doing research and so on.
        7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xvilka 7y ago
Is there any estimated date (year?) of GTK3 port release? I think it is the only major mainstream program that didn't switch from GTK2. Also mandatory donation link: https://www.gimp.org/donating/ https://www.gimp.org/donating/
- prokoudine 7y ago
  Technically, Inkscape is another project, though 1.0 alpha does use GTK3. There is no estimated date, but we hope to release 2.99.2 later this year. There are still some color management related issues to fix before we can do that.
- clhodapp 7y ago
  That's really interesting, given that GIMP was originally the "G" in GTK. I would have naively expected GIMP to be a GTK 3 early adopter.
anonymousX 7y ago
Wow, I am surprised users critisize open source software so much for minor things that work different then what they are used to. Much appreciation for the devs of Gimp from my side. Did anyone notice how hard they are working on color management and how few other software packages do that right? We are about to getting a free-to-use image manipulator with professional featues. If you complain about the UI, mod it or support the devs to improve it. That is the benefit of FLOSS. If you saved a .xcf by accident, you can download/build GIMP and convert the file to any supported format even in 50 years. No data lost.
- memetomancer 7y ago
  With all due respect, what you seem to be saying here is that you can't understand why UX is important to the target audience... A professional artist has to be able to work swiftly and reliably. Gimp's rough interface and stability issues present significant challenges to that kind of workflow. Moreover, this is exactly the kind of feedback needed to drive Gimp to competency, regardless of how well the project's foundation satisfies a person's idealistic impulses. As an aside, holding up that single feature as proof is hardly an argument, especially when a package like imagemagick is available and (arguably) better at the xcf conversion example.
  - kekeke 7y ago
    I suspect a lot of the hate gimp gets is from people that have not used 2.8/2.10 I used to hate on gimp UI/UX but now it has SIGNIFICANTLY improved.

Gimp 2.10.12

192 points by Ultramanoid 7y ago

Kaiyou 7y ago

Still can't get over the user hostile changes in 2.8 (save/export) and will stick to 2.6.

lucideer 7y ago
2.8 was.... 2012. If you're waiting for them to revert your pet change, you might be waiting some time. Are you referring to the separation of the export functionality into a distinct menu item. Is this really something you can't get used to over a 7 year period (particularly when this is how every other similar application does it)?
- elliotpage 7y ago
  If you need a bespoke dialog box to chastise you for following an expected workflow, then your user experience is lacking. The Save/Export split still catches me out. I'm not about to burn the barn down, but each time it makes me grunt in frustration.
  - mFixman 7y ago
    https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
  - zapzupnz 7y ago
    > for following an expected workflow Practically every image editor on the planet split saving in the application's native file format and exporting to foreign file formats. Hell, even document editors do this. The expected workflow is, therefore, that exporting is a different dialogue. Not terribly hard.
    - ubercow13 7y ago
      Is this true? As far as I remember you can save to, for example, JPEG in Photoshop and PDF in Word using the normal save dialogs.
      - mopsi 7y ago
        PDFs have been under Export since Office 2010 for better clarity.
        baud147258 7y ago
        I just checked, I can still save as a pdf in Word 2016. So it's in two different places
    - Crinus 7y ago
      > Practically every image editor on the planet I do not have many editors installed here, but Paint does have all formats on Save. Paint Shop Pro also has all formats on Save. I do not have it installed, from what i can see in the documentation[0] Paint.Net also has all formats on Save. LazPaint also has all formats on Save. I'm sure i can find many others if look for (i think GraphicsGale for example also does that but i'm not 100% sure). Those are from the top of my head. Maybe with "Practically every image editor" you really meant "Photoshop"? Because Photoshop isn't the be all end all of all image editors nor all image editors are meant to be Photoshop clones. [0] https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8 https://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/FileMenu.html#8
      - zapzupnz 7y ago
        I don't use Photoshop.
  - unixhero 7y ago
    Native file format interaction with SAVE and export as through a spooler with post processing, what's not to like.
- laurent123456 7y ago
  To be fair there has not been any significant changes in 7 years (just minor improvements and bug fixes) so it doesn't make a big difference to stick with "old" versions. I've been waiting for about as long for GIMP 3 and the non-destructive editing feature, but not sure it will ever be done.
  - filmor 7y ago
    2.6 was released in 2008, 11 years ago, and since then the gegl backend, single window mode, layer groups, color management, and lots of additional features were introduced. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP_version_history#GIMP_2.6 on what you are missing out, especially by ignoring 2.10. GIMP 2.99.2 (first prerelease of the GTK3 version) is supposed to come out this year: https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/ https://www.gimp.org/news/2019/01/02/gimp-and-gegl-in-2018/
  - lucideer 7y ago
    I'm not a hugely active GIMP user, but even from a distance I've noticed significantly more changes in the past 7 years than previously. If anything it's accelerating.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    What? GIMP has been totally reskinned and a whole lot of under-the-hood and feature changes have taken place. Do you actually read their release notes? Progress has been steady on the non-destructive editing front. It's taken a complete engine rewrite to get the necessary prerequisite features in place. Why don't you dive in and lend a hand instead of lamenting over how long it's taken?
- Crinus 7y ago
  I also dislike this change and i use GIMP for almost 15 years. The Export As dialog serves no purpose, the Save As dialog can support all the formats like it did before and if someone wants to save the currently edited image in another format they can use the "Save a copy as" command (which again should support all formats) which can be made to provide the exact same functionality as the Export As command and "Export" be made (and perhaps renamed to something more appropriate) to simply repeat whatever "Save a copy as" did. This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). Of course GIMP is free and open source so it isn't like they owe anyone a better UX or anything, they could replace all brushes with bananas and drop all file formats except BMP and nobody would have any right to demand anything from them. But at the same time that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop others from calling stinky something that smells bad.
  - this_was_posted 7y ago
    > This was a stupid change that added absolutely nothing of value, introduced unnecessary UI complexity and the only reason the GIMP developers did not revert despite all the users requesting it is arrogance as they believe to know better than their own users (which is to be expected by anything related GNOME - see the file dialog woes). I can imagine that they made the change due to many beginners being confused about having lost editing capabilities by storing their work as a png. The developers probably spend quite some time on the fora where users report these kinds of questions, so I don't think it is all that arrogant of them to believe that they know what causes confusion and what doesn't. Thinking that as a single user you are more knowledgeable on what is better for the over all ux than the actual developers, that I do think could be seen a little bit arrogant.
    - Crinus 7y ago
      This can be solved in the same way other applications that can save to multiple formats solve it: if you only use the functionality the target format supports, saving works transparently (so, e.g., you can create an image, draw an arrow and save it as a PNG). If you try to use functionality that the target format doesn't support (e.g. layers on PNG) then GIMP should display a warning dialog about it, perhaps with an option to save as a XCF instead (but not default on it). This has two additional benefits: 1. the beginner will stop be a beginner at some point, will be informed about the target format they are trying to use and will know how to save, save as, etc so this issue will stop be a problem for them and 2. it will get rid of the useless and annoying "do you want to save" warning whenever you want to create a non-XCF image file (because you already saved with "Export", you just didn't save the image as an XCF). The current approach makes the (wrong) assumption that everyone works with XCF files and only exports to other formats. This might be true for some cases, but a lot of people want to work with other formats directly.
- apexalpha 7y ago
  A bunch of people spend A LOT of their time developing a FOSS alternative to photoshop and the first comment online is someone bitching about a small GUI change 7 years ago. Classic open source community. Sorry to say it. This is the exact reason Libre Office looks like it's from 1996 and it stops normal users from using it.
  - llukas 7y ago
    I was casual user of gimp for simple editing tasks. I stopped using it as gimp not only broke existing behavior but is "special" in that regard - other programs follow standard. No hard feelings :) Libre office added ribbons etc as an option. It is not forced on anybody.
    - scoutt 7y ago
      I also use gimp for simple "cleanup" tasks and brightness/contrast. I wonder, what is the alternative you are using now, and if it's free like gimp?
      - llukas 7y ago
        ksnapshot, krita/inkscape, gwenview, darkroom, rawtherapee
        prokoudine 7y ago
        darkroom is called darktable :)
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    I doubt that many people really care that much about how Libre Office looks. They probably care more about things like the damn math being wrong unless you force recalculation, something I encounter frequently in documents created by Libre Office and read in the same version of Libre Office.
    - 7y ago
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  I'm happy using Gimp 2.6 now, I'll be happy using it forever.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  I'm just starting to get used to it... (I still think about it every time I save/export, not sure why)
harel 7y ago
What do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...
- alpaca128 7y ago
  It's not hostile but it feels completely unnecessary. I don't see any UX improvement by splitting up multiple options of a single feature into two separate menus.
  - NikkiA 7y ago
    It stops people saving a master copy as .xcf, then saving as png to export, then hitting Ctrl-S and thinking they've saved their master copy when they haven't. As such it is most definitely a positive change, even if it does go against my 'muscle' memory of how I used to work it, and cause me to 'doh' more often than I should.
    - cygx 7y ago
      On the flip side, it complicates workflows with non-xcf master copies.
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      I've been using gimp since at least 2003 and never used .xcf files. Sometimes I accidentally saved as .xcf which was a huge bother, since that file format is useless outside of gimp.
  - uryga 7y ago
    i think of exporting like compiling. the .xcf is the "source" (layers, non-destructive effects, vector paths, etc), and i only want to save when i'm working on that. when i want to "build" it into a flat .png that people can actually use, i export it.
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      If possible, I'd like to completely get rid of everything xcf inside gimp. It's useless overhead to me.
Theizestooke 7y ago
I'm still using 2.8 because large pictures don't make the computer chug. Maybe they fixed this.
amiga-workbench 7y ago
That caught me out for all of two days before I got ctrl+s/ctrl+e down to muscle memory.
teekert 7y ago
If you think you are saving all your hard work in gimp inside a JPG, you are in for a nice surprise. I think the "new" way makes much more sense.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  No, I'm not, since I know what I am doing.
  - yason 7y ago
    I know what I'm doing, too. Thus, I can learn to use another menu item to do what I want. The save vs export change only hits against habits. It took me a while to figure it out at the time but these days I practically only ever use "Export as" because I know what I want and I know what I'm doing, and how to do it in later Gimp versions. While I didn't like the change it does make sense. Loading and saving in Gimp is about native formats. Saving to a bitmap format loses much of the data so calling it an export is quite appropriate. Before, Gimp was always nagging about whether I'm sure I want to save as jpeg because I wouldn't be saving my Gimp state that way. That wasn't pleasant either.
    - Crinus 7y ago
      Even if you use Export to save, GIMP will complain that you didn't save the image you just saved because you wanted to use a format others can open as opposed to the format it wants to push. It is not a major issue, but it still is an annoyance you have to face constantly if you want to work with other file formats directly as opposed to treating them as second class citizens regardless of what sort of editing you are doing.
      - pessimizer 7y ago
        If you save a png to a jpg, you'd expect a warning. Saving an image that you're working with to a standard image format is a lossy conversion.

stOneskull 7y ago

gimp is great a great tool and a great example of free software

raxxorrax 7y ago
Definitely! With gtk as a small "waste product".
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Why do you think Gtk is a waste product?
  - deathtrader666 7y ago
    I think he meant GTk as a "side product"..
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    Just trying to be snarky. GTK is awesome of course. I just like the story about how GTK was crafted for GIMP and since then spread to many other places. I still often hear about it being referred to as Gnome Tool Kit for example.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > Just trying to be snarky. I think that's explicitly against the site guidelines here.
      - Synaesthesia 7y ago
        Can’t tell if sarcastic.
        grzm 7y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > "In Comments" > "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

tokai 7y ago

Nice with tiff layers! Also the offset tool is a nice small addition. Green Is My Pepper.

cpach 7y ago
Out of curiosity, in what kinds of situations would one like to use layers in a TIFF file?
- ktpsns 7y ago
  Oh, there are several programs which generate such files, for instance some flatbed scanners. Also amongst Adobe Photoshop® professionals, for some reason multilayer TIFF is the format to go with (don't know why -- maybe because it is still popular in DTP/printing?)
  - VvR-Ox 7y ago
    Exactly, TIFF is very popular because of the printing process. You don't need layers for that of course and under normal circumstances you'd export your layered file to a one-layer TIFF.
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  Subtitling industry. 20 years ago. I seem to remember handling TIFF files for oriental scripts.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    This is correct. Not sure if still true nowadays but even 10 years ago you could find Asian subtitles in TIFF formats on some DVDs.
- zubspace 7y ago
  I sometimes see them being used as an archive format, where PDF's are converted to tiff beforehand. Each page on a separate layer.
- 7y ago

snvzz 7y ago

>GIMP 2.10.12 is mostly a bug fix release as some annoying bugs were discovered, which is to be expected after a 2.10.10 with so many changes! Why do we care about a minor bugfix release?

cpach 7y ago
Improved Curves tool • Layers support for TIFF exporting • Support for user-installed fonts on Windows • Faster painting • Improved symmetry painting support • Incremental mode in the Dodge/Burn tool • Free Select tool now creates a preliminary selection • New Offset tool
- snvzz 7y ago
  Aren't those part of an older 2.10.10 release? The changes page is confusing, but this is what I understand from looking at it.
  - Liquid_Fire 7y ago
    It says: > Still, some very cool improvements are also available: ...before listing those changes. So the changes are from this release. It's just easy to miss that sentence because of the large comic.
  - prokoudine 7y ago
    How is it confusing, exactly?
OrgNet 7y ago
they are under stating the value of this release (because it also comes with a few improvements)

Funes- 7y ago

Whenever some piece of free software is discussed, there has to be someone that demands former features to come back or new ones to be added. Nothing wrong with suggesting changes to the software, but demanding them? Go fork it if you want it so bad instead of complaining to people who most probably aren't even being paid.

Crinus 7y ago
How do you differentiate between suggesting and demanding?
- jkoudys 7y ago
  Sentiment analysis.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    No sure what you mean? What sentiment and how would you analyze it?
- Funes- 7y ago
  Besides the actual words from which you can--most of the time--immediately see or at least infer where the comment falls into: politeness and tone. I don't think it's usually hard to know if someone is being aggressive and demanding about it, as far as I can say.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    So the difference is really how you perceive what someone is writing? What if your perception is wrong?
    - Funes- 7y ago
      Isn't that how all communication works? Aren't you relying on your perception and cognitive abilities to interpret my comments to reply to them accordingly? What exactly are we discussing here? Of course my personal interpretations could be wrong; nonetheless, clear-cut cases of users complaining and demonstrating entitlement towards free software developers is something I cannot possibly endorse.

jmalkin 7y ago

I love gimp, love that it's free, but I really wish they paid a little more attention to the usability There's all these minor issues that get on your nerves If it was just a bit more user friendly, I would not need Photoshop

Funes- 7y ago
>There's all these minor issues that get on your nerves Have you tried reaching out to the developers in order to make your issues visible?
ogrisel 7y ago
The blog post highlights specifically usability improvements so they do pay attention to the usability. Rather that state vague generic complaints, please be more constructive and be specific by highlighting the most important usability issues you encountered in your own experience and see if other users agree with your analysis by reporting it to the issue tracker.
- jmalkin 7y ago
  This wasn't the place to list all my specific complaints, so I didn't
  - prokoudine 7y ago
    https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues, however, is exactly the place ;-)
    - jmalkin 7y ago
      I think UX issues, without data backing them up, are just opinions for the most part. I don't feel very comfortable putting them in a bug tracker. I wonder if they have UX trained people doing research and so on.
      - 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

xvilka 7y ago

Is there any estimated date (year?) of GTK3 port release? I think it is the only major mainstream program that didn't switch from GTK2. Also mandatory donation link: https://www.gimp.org/donating/ https://www.gimp.org/donating/

prokoudine 7y ago
Technically, Inkscape is another project, though 1.0 alpha does use GTK3. There is no estimated date, but we hope to release 2.99.2 later this year. There are still some color management related issues to fix before we can do that.
clhodapp 7y ago
That's really interesting, given that GIMP was originally the "G" in GTK. I would have naively expected GIMP to be a GTK 3 early adopter.

anonymousX 7y ago

Wow, I am surprised users critisize open source software so much for minor things that work different then what they are used to. Much appreciation for the devs of Gimp from my side. Did anyone notice how hard they are working on color management and how few other software packages do that right? We are about to getting a free-to-use image manipulator with professional featues. If you complain about the UI, mod it or support the devs to improve it. That is the benefit of FLOSS. If you saved a .xcf by accident, you can download/build GIMP and convert the file to any supported format even in 50 years. No data lost.

memetomancer 7y ago
With all due respect, what you seem to be saying here is that you can't understand why UX is important to the target audience... A professional artist has to be able to work swiftly and reliably. Gimp's rough interface and stability issues present significant challenges to that kind of workflow. Moreover, this is exactly the kind of feedback needed to drive Gimp to competency, regardless of how well the project's foundation satisfies a person's idealistic impulses. As an aside, holding up that single feature as proof is hardly an argument, especially when a package like imagemagick is available and (arguably) better at the xcf conversion example.
- kekeke 7y ago
  I suspect a lot of the hate gimp gets is from people that have not used 2.8/2.10 I used to hate on gimp UI/UX but now it has SIGNIFICANTLY improved.