7 ms·

Candida auris: A fungus hospitals don’t want to talk about

218 points by DVassallo 7y ago

pstuart 7y ago
The lack of transparency here is criminal.
- edejong 7y ago
  By the hospitals or by the government unwilling to regulate disclosure?
  - eeZah7Ux 7y ago
    Both.
  - pstuart 7y ago
    As eeZah7Ux noted, both.
gumby 7y ago
I used to work on antifungal drugs (though not against C Auris) and I don’t remember it being any sort of secret. It’s just not a sexy microbe. Antifungal drugs tend to be very toxic for humans too, though luckily most healthy people’s immune systems are pretty good at rejecting them.
- el_benhameen 7y ago
  I think the point of the article is not that they're trying to find info on an unsexy microbe. It's that hospitals and similar organizations don't want to talk about antifungal-resistant C Auris because they don't want to be pegged as "that hospital where people get candidiasis", and that secrecy is harmful to the public's ability to find out about the problem.
aszantu 7y ago
We live in a world, where almost all skin care products contain anti-fungals. People treat minor skin conditions with essential oils and teatree oil. Fungicides are sprayed on the fields so the crop doesn't get infected and the same is done with factory farmed animals. No wonder these things get resistant...
- neodypsis 7y ago
  It should be illegal to use fungicides or bactericides with medicinal value in non-human applications, especially on crops. I'm feeling hopeless regarding what our future chances are in fighting super-bugs. Could you elaborate more on why using tea tree oil contributes to drug-resistant Candida?
  - masklinn 7y ago
    > It should be illegal to use fungicides or bactericides with medicinal value in non-human applications, especially on crops. Fungi are one of the big crop killers. Potato blight, black pod disease, panama disease, mildews, … are all fungi.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      I can't tell where you're going with this. Are you saying that there aren't enough non-medicinal-value fungicides to use on crops? Did you misread the sentence you replied to?
      - masklinn 7y ago
        > Are you saying that there aren't enough non-medicinal-value fungicides to use on crops? There's going to be a significant overlap between fungicides which don't kill crops and fungicide with medicinal value.
        Dylan16807 7y ago
        Edit: Let me try rewriting this comment. Sure, there's overlap. That doesn't answer the question. Are you making that claim? Or saying that it's likely? Your comment had a stance for a brief moment, but then you backed up to "overlap exists" which isn't really evidence in any particular direction.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bayesian_horse 7y ago
As compared to Kambucha, the fungus everyone wants to talk about.
rob74 7y ago
I'm frankly surprised they should be surprised about this - wanting to talk to a hospital about their issues with resistant germs is like asking a restaurant about the roaches in their kitchen...
- threezero 7y ago
  The surprise is that hospitals are allowed to act this way. Patient privacy is one thing, but this is attempting to suppress information to the public about deadly infections.
  - okasaki 7y ago
    Act in what way? Is there some obligation for hospital staff to talk to journalists?
    - post_below 7y ago
      The answer is in the post you're replying to... Public health is a reasonable priority to expect from a hospital. Without a public conversation about resistant bugs, the causes (drug overuse) will never be addressed.
      - okasaki 7y ago
        There's lots of work and discussion going on regarding drug resistance. Funny, I've been to plenty of conferences and talks about it and I've never seen a journalist. They just want to churn out articles like this one: FIND OUT ABOUT THIS ONE DEADLY BUG THAT NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT. No surprise they get few responses.
        el_benhameen 7y ago
        I don't think that's a fair characterization. The linked article is a "Times Insider" article, so an article about the reporting that went into a much longer article. It focuses on the difficulties the reporter had researching the topic, and I don't think that any of it is fear-mongery like your all-caps title. The article whose reporting this one focuses on [0] is quite long and strikes me as being well-researched, thorough in its explanations, and not over the top in its take on the issue. Sure, there's a little bit of intrigue, but that just makes for interesting reading. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html?module=inline https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-can...
neodypsis 7y ago
The CDC has a web page where it keeps track of the number of cases, as well as the geographical locations where they occurred [0]. Not currently there, but Costa Rica appears to report a new case just recently. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/candida-auris/tracking-c-auris.html https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/candida-auris/tracking-c-auris.ht...
jonathanjaeger 7y ago
Luckily a couple biotech companies like Scynexis and Cidara Therapeutics are working on some novel anti-fungals (currently in stage 3 trials). Hopefully one or both make it through successfully and are approved by the FDA as cases rise.
atian 7y ago
Where the Candida albicans central crew at?
okasaki 7y ago
I think as journalists write more and more articles that are catastrophising, clickbait-laden rubbish, they will find fewer and fewer people willing to talk to them. This is a hole they dug for themselves.
- cryptica 7y ago
  As far as I can see, there are no financial interests behind this article (in fact, all the financial interests are against it because it's criticising the lucrative medical system). Maybe it's slightly over dramatic but at least it seems pure in its intentions and it's good to see that the writer feels strongly about the topic. This is real journalism and we need more of these articles. What we need fewer of are articles which promote financial interests and drive wealth centralization. These are abundant and nobody seems to be pointing those out.
  - RappingBoomer 7y ago
    big pharma wants more laws from congress to prevent americans from using the web to buy the cheap antibiotics they need from overseas...these hype articles manufacture consent for the laws big pharma wants and will get once they pay off congress...it's a 2 stage process...first they lay a propaganda foundation--media articles that hype some crisis...and then they pay off congress to get the laws that force the consumer to do (or not do) things that will make the big corporations richer...I am old and have been seeing this stuff for decades now...i talk about it frequently online too, but I am usually censored by forums that probably get $$ from business lobbies
- kebman 7y ago
  Sad to say, this is not clickbait. Microbes that are becoming resistant due to overuse of antibiotics is a serious problem, especially in countries that repress such information, or where the use of antibiotics is less firmly regulated. I'm sure most people are aware that Eastern Europe, and especially Romania and Bulgaria has a rampant problem with resistent microbæ, but I was surprised to see that for instance Italy is almost equally as bad.
- cm2187 7y ago
RappingBoomer 7y ago
you never know whether to believe these sorts of articles...this article could easily be propaganda generated by the pharma industry so as to more tightly keep american consumers locked down so they cannot break the extortion hold big pharma has on america via bribes to congress...no, extorted american consumers, you may not go on the web to buy cheap antibiotics from overseas...because that may unleash an apocalyptic doom fungus scenario due to drug resistance...hee hee, chuckles Global Capitalism...sorry... ...ok, fine, you may think i am paranoid...i disagree....Global Capitalism is profoundly evil, and they will do anything to be able to keep extorting americans for drugs these "drug resistance" scare-hype stories smell like a propaganda campaign to me...I cannot prove it...but I am old and have been seeing these sorts of media campaigns for many decades...not just for healthcare extortion, but manufacturing consent for so many of Global Capitalism's shenanigans... this is how it works--some business lobby buys scare-hype stories in the media to create a foundation of knowledge in the public about some issue...whatever...drug resistant diseases, students declaring bankruptcy to get out of student loans (you may not recall that one from the early 90s...but Rapping Boomer remembers, oh, yes)...and then once the idea is out there, they pay off congress to get the laws they want passed...
leptoniscool 7y ago
Copper and silver are good for stopping bacterial growth : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407716/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407716/ Are there any materials can slow or stop fungal growth?
- goldenkey 7y ago
  Baby powder works wonders for fungus. It destroyed jock itch when the azole anti fungals couldnt. Just dry out the fungus if its external. Internal fungals are an entirely different beast..
  - Raphmedia 7y ago
    Exactly. Fungus are usually quite straightforward to eradicate on the surface of the body or on non-porous material. The issue with Candida auris is that it gets in the patient's blood and inside the porous ceiling tiles and walls.
dfeojm-zlib 7y ago
To eradicate it after one patient died, a hospital in Brooklyn even “had to rip out some of the ceiling and floor tiles” in his room. - https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/candida-auris-hospitals-superbug-spread-prevention.html https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/candida-auris-hospitals...
- gingabriska 7y ago
  I wonder what if some developed countries release these viruses in developing country with large population but not advance medical techniques. Would they be able to see evolution making people survive against this deadly fungus? Then simply understanding the mechanism might lead to development of new drugs.
  - jbattle 7y ago
    Like polio, malaria, yellow fever, rotavirus, trachoma, hepatitis? Sadly we have plenty of pathogens of all stripes in common circulation already. Maybe I'm misreading what you wrote - but it kind of sounds like you are suggesting we knowingly infect some developing country with additional diseases, just to see what happens, in the hope it helps us make better medicine for ourselves? That would be kinda ... twisted
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      This person's comment from two days ago: > If Norway wants to strive for sustainability they should be installing power plants in India and offering EVs and free charging ports there. In coming days, India is going to surpass all countries when it comes to net pollution. > I don't know why these rich countries never do anything to improve quality of life on whole planet. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
      - gingabriska 7y ago
        I am not here to take any position, I simply asked this because I suspect some country might have this trick in their playbook. I am not suggesting that countries should do this but I am expressing that it might already be in someone's list of strategy to save their country from the deadly virus.
merricksb 7y ago
A related article, published around the same time as this one, was posted and got significant attention on HN about 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19590180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19590180 (Probably doesn't count as a dupe as this article is more about the secrecy than the infection itself).
Fjolsvith 7y ago
A workplace has to have Material Safety Sheets for hazardous chemicals that people can review for safety precautions and dangerous effects (per OSHA). Why wouldn't a hospital have something similar for communicable diseases?
- giarc 7y ago
  They likely do. My hospital has patient handouts that cover common antibiotic resistant organisms such as MRSA, VRE, CPO etc.
tomcam 7y ago
Not trying to be cynical or arch or snarky here. But considering what hospitals charge for things, isn’t it relatively affordable to do drywall work, tile replacement, etc.?

218 points by DVassallo 7y ago

pstuart 7y ago

The lack of transparency here is criminal.

edejong 7y ago
By the hospitals or by the government unwilling to regulate disclosure?
- eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  Both.
- pstuart 7y ago
  As eeZah7Ux noted, both.

gumby 7y ago

I used to work on antifungal drugs (though not against C Auris) and I don’t remember it being any sort of secret. It’s just not a sexy microbe. Antifungal drugs tend to be very toxic for humans too, though luckily most healthy people’s immune systems are pretty good at rejecting them.

el_benhameen 7y ago
I think the point of the article is not that they're trying to find info on an unsexy microbe. It's that hospitals and similar organizations don't want to talk about antifungal-resistant C Auris because they don't want to be pegged as "that hospital where people get candidiasis", and that secrecy is harmful to the public's ability to find out about the problem.

aszantu 7y ago

We live in a world, where almost all skin care products contain anti-fungals. People treat minor skin conditions with essential oils and teatree oil. Fungicides are sprayed on the fields so the crop doesn't get infected and the same is done with factory farmed animals. No wonder these things get resistant...

neodypsis 7y ago
It should be illegal to use fungicides or bactericides with medicinal value in non-human applications, especially on crops. I'm feeling hopeless regarding what our future chances are in fighting super-bugs. Could you elaborate more on why using tea tree oil contributes to drug-resistant Candida?
- masklinn 7y ago
  > It should be illegal to use fungicides or bactericides with medicinal value in non-human applications, especially on crops. Fungi are one of the big crop killers. Potato blight, black pod disease, panama disease, mildews, … are all fungi.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    I can't tell where you're going with this. Are you saying that there aren't enough non-medicinal-value fungicides to use on crops? Did you misread the sentence you replied to?
    - masklinn 7y ago
      > Are you saying that there aren't enough non-medicinal-value fungicides to use on crops? There's going to be a significant overlap between fungicides which don't kill crops and fungicide with medicinal value.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        Edit: Let me try rewriting this comment. Sure, there's overlap. That doesn't answer the question. Are you making that claim? Or saying that it's likely? Your comment had a stance for a brief moment, but then you backed up to "overlap exists" which isn't really evidence in any particular direction.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bayesian_horse 7y ago

As compared to Kambucha, the fungus everyone wants to talk about.

rob74 7y ago

I'm frankly surprised they should be surprised about this - wanting to talk to a hospital about their issues with resistant germs is like asking a restaurant about the roaches in their kitchen...

threezero 7y ago
The surprise is that hospitals are allowed to act this way. Patient privacy is one thing, but this is attempting to suppress information to the public about deadly infections.
- okasaki 7y ago
  Act in what way? Is there some obligation for hospital staff to talk to journalists?
  - post_below 7y ago
    The answer is in the post you're replying to... Public health is a reasonable priority to expect from a hospital. Without a public conversation about resistant bugs, the causes (drug overuse) will never be addressed.
    - okasaki 7y ago
      There's lots of work and discussion going on regarding drug resistance. Funny, I've been to plenty of conferences and talks about it and I've never seen a journalist. They just want to churn out articles like this one: FIND OUT ABOUT THIS ONE DEADLY BUG THAT NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT. No surprise they get few responses.
      - el_benhameen 7y ago
        I don't think that's a fair characterization. The linked article is a "Times Insider" article, so an article about the reporting that went into a much longer article. It focuses on the difficulties the reporter had researching the topic, and I don't think that any of it is fear-mongery like your all-caps title. The article whose reporting this one focuses on [0] is quite long and strikes me as being well-researched, thorough in its explanations, and not over the top in its take on the issue. Sure, there's a little bit of intrigue, but that just makes for interesting reading. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html?module=inline https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-can...

neodypsis 7y ago

The CDC has a web page where it keeps track of the number of cases, as well as the geographical locations where they occurred [0]. Not currently there, but Costa Rica appears to report a new case just recently. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/candida-auris/tracking-c-auris.html https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/candida-auris/tracking-c-auris.ht...

jonathanjaeger 7y ago

Luckily a couple biotech companies like Scynexis and Cidara Therapeutics are working on some novel anti-fungals (currently in stage 3 trials). Hopefully one or both make it through successfully and are approved by the FDA as cases rise.

atian 7y ago

Where the Candida albicans central crew at?

okasaki 7y ago

I think as journalists write more and more articles that are catastrophising, clickbait-laden rubbish, they will find fewer and fewer people willing to talk to them. This is a hole they dug for themselves.

cryptica 7y ago
As far as I can see, there are no financial interests behind this article (in fact, all the financial interests are against it because it's criticising the lucrative medical system). Maybe it's slightly over dramatic but at least it seems pure in its intentions and it's good to see that the writer feels strongly about the topic. This is real journalism and we need more of these articles. What we need fewer of are articles which promote financial interests and drive wealth centralization. These are abundant and nobody seems to be pointing those out.
- RappingBoomer 7y ago
  big pharma wants more laws from congress to prevent americans from using the web to buy the cheap antibiotics they need from overseas...these hype articles manufacture consent for the laws big pharma wants and will get once they pay off congress...it's a 2 stage process...first they lay a propaganda foundation--media articles that hype some crisis...and then they pay off congress to get the laws that force the consumer to do (or not do) things that will make the big corporations richer...I am old and have been seeing this stuff for decades now...i talk about it frequently online too, but I am usually censored by forums that probably get $$ from business lobbies
kebman 7y ago
Sad to say, this is not clickbait. Microbes that are becoming resistant due to overuse of antibiotics is a serious problem, especially in countries that repress such information, or where the use of antibiotics is less firmly regulated. I'm sure most people are aware that Eastern Europe, and especially Romania and Bulgaria has a rampant problem with resistent microbæ, but I was surprised to see that for instance Italy is almost equally as bad.
cm2187 7y ago

RappingBoomer 7y ago

you never know whether to believe these sorts of articles...this article could easily be propaganda generated by the pharma industry so as to more tightly keep american consumers locked down so they cannot break the extortion hold big pharma has on america via bribes to congress...no, extorted american consumers, you may not go on the web to buy cheap antibiotics from overseas...because that may unleash an apocalyptic doom fungus scenario due to drug resistance...hee hee, chuckles Global Capitalism...sorry... ...ok, fine, you may think i am paranoid...i disagree....Global Capitalism is profoundly evil, and they will do anything to be able to keep extorting americans for drugs these "drug resistance" scare-hype stories smell like a propaganda campaign to me...I cannot prove it...but I am old and have been seeing these sorts of media campaigns for many decades...not just for healthcare extortion, but manufacturing consent for so many of Global Capitalism's shenanigans... this is how it works--some business lobby buys scare-hype stories in the media to create a foundation of knowledge in the public about some issue...whatever...drug resistant diseases, students declaring bankruptcy to get out of student loans (you may not recall that one from the early 90s...but Rapping Boomer remembers, oh, yes)...and then once the idea is out there, they pay off congress to get the laws they want passed...

leptoniscool 7y ago

Copper and silver are good for stopping bacterial growth : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407716/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28407716/ Are there any materials can slow or stop fungal growth?

goldenkey 7y ago
Baby powder works wonders for fungus. It destroyed jock itch when the azole anti fungals couldnt. Just dry out the fungus if its external. Internal fungals are an entirely different beast..
- Raphmedia 7y ago
  Exactly. Fungus are usually quite straightforward to eradicate on the surface of the body or on non-porous material. The issue with Candida auris is that it gets in the patient's blood and inside the porous ceiling tiles and walls.

dfeojm-zlib 7y ago

To eradicate it after one patient died, a hospital in Brooklyn even “had to rip out some of the ceiling and floor tiles” in his room. - https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/candida-auris-hospitals-superbug-spread-prevention.html https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/candida-auris-hospitals...

gingabriska 7y ago
I wonder what if some developed countries release these viruses in developing country with large population but not advance medical techniques. Would they be able to see evolution making people survive against this deadly fungus? Then simply understanding the mechanism might lead to development of new drugs.
- jbattle 7y ago
  Like polio, malaria, yellow fever, rotavirus, trachoma, hepatitis? Sadly we have plenty of pathogens of all stripes in common circulation already. Maybe I'm misreading what you wrote - but it kind of sounds like you are suggesting we knowingly infect some developing country with additional diseases, just to see what happens, in the hope it helps us make better medicine for ourselves? That would be kinda ... twisted
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    This person's comment from two days ago: > If Norway wants to strive for sustainability they should be installing power plants in India and offering EVs and free charging ports there. In coming days, India is going to surpass all countries when it comes to net pollution. > I don't know why these rich countries never do anything to improve quality of life on whole planet. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
    - gingabriska 7y ago
      I am not here to take any position, I simply asked this because I suspect some country might have this trick in their playbook. I am not suggesting that countries should do this but I am expressing that it might already be in someone's list of strategy to save their country from the deadly virus.

merricksb 7y ago

A related article, published around the same time as this one, was posted and got significant attention on HN about 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19590180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19590180 (Probably doesn't count as a dupe as this article is more about the secrecy than the infection itself).

Fjolsvith 7y ago

A workplace has to have Material Safety Sheets for hazardous chemicals that people can review for safety precautions and dangerous effects (per OSHA). Why wouldn't a hospital have something similar for communicable diseases?

giarc 7y ago
They likely do. My hospital has patient handouts that cover common antibiotic resistant organisms such as MRSA, VRE, CPO etc.

tomcam 7y ago

Not trying to be cynical or arch or snarky here. But considering what hospitals charge for things, isn’t it relatively affordable to do drywall work, tile replacement, etc.?