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For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China rather than their mi

For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China rather than their microcosm. I suspect Guangzhou, Shenzen, Dongguan may have no sympathy for those in Hong Kong who have more rights and a better standard of living than they do.

aaomidi 7y ago
I really, really wish these protests spread to mainland China.
- hkai 7y ago
  That would not be possible.
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    Wishing isn't reserved for stuff that's possible.
toinetoine 7y ago
No sympathy is right. A lot of people I've talked to in Shenzhen feel HKers 看不起大陆人 look down on mainlanders.
- dade_ 7y ago
  Mainlanders don't share etiquette & hygiene standards that HK has from the west. If China would import anything besides human rights...
- baybal2 7y ago
  Well, at least they are interested. Today evening on a metro, I think quite a few people were watching videos on HK events
- theblackcat1002 7y ago
  You have to look at this issue from a Hong Kong resident point of view (I am not a Hong Kong resident). Since the handover to the China government, the average living cost is higher than ever before [1], real estate price skyrocket due to huge amount of investment from China[2]. Some Hong Kongers may blame these issues to "mainlanders" for "disrupting" their live. Also in 2013 "mainlanders" rush to Hong Kong to buy milk powder due to the poisonous milk power scandal in China, causing a shortage of milk power in Hong Kong [3]. I certainly wouldn't be happy if suddenly I can't buy milk power for my child because my neighbour had bought all of them. [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1143157/hong-kong-ranks-14th-world-cost-living https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1143157/hong-kon... [2] https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3002396/hong-kong-home-prices-increase-15-cent-year-says-cushman https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3002396/hong-kong-home... [3] https://www.worldjournal.com/6148953/article-%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E5%BB%B6%E9%95%B7%E3%80%8C%E9%99%90%E5%A5%B6%E4%BB%A4%E3%80%8D-%E9%98%B2%E5%86%8D%E7%88%86%E6%90%B6%E8%B3%BC%E5%A5%B6%E7%B2%89%E6%BD%AE/ https://www.worldjournal.com/6148953/article-%E9%A6%99%E6%B8...
- spacehunt 7y ago
  Interestingly a lot of HK people here feel the rest of China is looking down on / showing no respect to us and everything that makes HK different from the mainland.
- hkai 7y ago
  This relationship between Hong Kong people and mainland people is quite similar to immigrant issues in the West. Mainland immigrants are perceived to not work, receive free apartments in the world's most expensive city, and have poor judgment in things ranging from politics to obeying the call of nature.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China Not necessarily. Beijing is violating an agreement lodged with the UN. The protesters just need to get the population in a G7 country pissed off enough to turn this bill into an international issue, thereby increasing the cost of its introduction to Beijing.
- yhoneycomb 7y ago
  Who says the UN (whose strongholds of power largely lie in Anglo and European countries) should have any say over what China does?
  - nradov 7y ago
    China is literally a permanent member of the Security Council. They are one of the UN strongholds of power in every possible sense.
  - klez 7y ago
    Because China wanted to be part of the UN. If they don't want the UN to have any saying in their matters they should leave and face the consequences. I don't know if this says more about China or the UN, to be honest.
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    Hong Kong
- fasthandle 7y ago
  Beijing also detained the head of Interpol who has not been seen since (a Chinese citizen). Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-chinese-head-of-interpol-has-disappeared--in-china/2018/10/05/4e4878c2-c88f-11e8-9c0f-2ffaf6d422aa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-chinese-head...
kartan 7y ago
> have no sympathy for those in Hong Kong who have more rights and a better standard of living than they do. I always find this paradox as interesting as sad. This Lose/Win mentality evolved as a solution to small community of humans with limited resources. In that situation, how to split the insufficient resources is the main problem. The more others get, the less is left for me. In current modern society, the more education and resources has the people around me the more they produce and I can benefit from it. Or brain did not evolve to our modern world, I guess. Helping people to think Win/Win would be a great paradigm shift moving into the future of our society.
- chongli 7y ago
  I always find this paradox as interesting as sad. It's crab mentality [1] and you're right, it's extremely sad. We see it absolutely everywhere. So many people who (for example) hate the rich rather than loving the poor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
chvid 7y ago
I think you touch on something very relevant. I have been there quite a few times and I like it there but many Chinese see Hong Kong people as spoiled and snobbish. Back when China took over Hong Kong, Hong Kong was something special. Today many mainland Chinese cities are just as wealthy and almost as international as Hong Kong; yet Hong Kong clings on to its special status. Why are these people not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?
- khuey 7y ago
  Many cities on the Chinese mainland are nearly as wealthy as Hong Kong but none of them are remotely as "international". And asking "why are [Hong Kongers] not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?" either betrays a serious lack of understanding of how the Chinese political system works or is a question asked in bad faith.
  - chvid 7y ago
    How do you think your average Chinese in the neighbouring regions perceive these protest? Do you think they are sympathetic to your cause?
    - spacehunt 7y ago
      We have no idea of knowing, but from what I've heard, they are simply not aware. Almost anything with the phrase "Hong Kong" was censored inside mainland China today.
      - yorwba 7y ago
        It's not too hard to find something on Weibo, e.g. this post in support of the police [1] where the highest-upvoted comment at 281 votes condemns the police violence [2]. [1] https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4382509644815287 https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4382509644815287 面对困难，香港警察从不畏惧，坚决捍卫法律尊严！@香港警察 [2] 拿枪射无辜民众及记者，一群警察围殴女孩，拿胡椒喷雾射向老人及外国游客，这样就是维护法治吗
ksec 7y ago
It would have been possible, or at least HK thought that was going to happen 20 years ago. The whole of China will become more HK alike. Instead China's close grip on power meant any of these western Values were not allowed to be exposed. Even the spoken languages Cantonese is silently being killed at an alarming rate.
Haga 7y ago
That's from the same school of thought that brought us the Syrian red line on poisonous gas, the successes of the Arab spring and the democratic reforms after tieanmin square? Demanding a revolution far away from danger at the top of your voice while with your voting feet trampling these futures of choice? If you want to remain free get out of Hong Kong while you still can..
chungleong 7y ago
I don't know how you can export "mainlanders are locusts" to the rest of China.

aaomidi 7y ago

I really, really wish these protests spread to mainland China.

hkai 7y ago
That would not be possible.
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Wishing isn't reserved for stuff that's possible.

toinetoine 7y ago

No sympathy is right. A lot of people I've talked to in Shenzhen feel HKers 看不起大陆人 look down on mainlanders.

dade_ 7y ago
Mainlanders don't share etiquette & hygiene standards that HK has from the west. If China would import anything besides human rights...
baybal2 7y ago
Well, at least they are interested. Today evening on a metro, I think quite a few people were watching videos on HK events
theblackcat1002 7y ago
You have to look at this issue from a Hong Kong resident point of view (I am not a Hong Kong resident). Since the handover to the China government, the average living cost is higher than ever before [1], real estate price skyrocket due to huge amount of investment from China[2]. Some Hong Kongers may blame these issues to "mainlanders" for "disrupting" their live. Also in 2013 "mainlanders" rush to Hong Kong to buy milk powder due to the poisonous milk power scandal in China, causing a shortage of milk power in Hong Kong [3]. I certainly wouldn't be happy if suddenly I can't buy milk power for my child because my neighbour had bought all of them. [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1143157/hong-kong-ranks-14th-world-cost-living https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1143157/hong-kon... [2] https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3002396/hong-kong-home-prices-increase-15-cent-year-says-cushman https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3002396/hong-kong-home... [3] https://www.worldjournal.com/6148953/article-%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E5%BB%B6%E9%95%B7%E3%80%8C%E9%99%90%E5%A5%B6%E4%BB%A4%E3%80%8D-%E9%98%B2%E5%86%8D%E7%88%86%E6%90%B6%E8%B3%BC%E5%A5%B6%E7%B2%89%E6%BD%AE/ https://www.worldjournal.com/6148953/article-%E9%A6%99%E6%B8...
spacehunt 7y ago
Interestingly a lot of HK people here feel the rest of China is looking down on / showing no respect to us and everything that makes HK different from the mainland.
hkai 7y ago
This relationship between Hong Kong people and mainland people is quite similar to immigrant issues in the West. Mainland immigrants are perceived to not work, receive free apartments in the world's most expensive city, and have poor judgment in things ranging from politics to obeying the call of nature.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China Not necessarily. Beijing is violating an agreement lodged with the UN. The protesters just need to get the population in a G7 country pissed off enough to turn this bill into an international issue, thereby increasing the cost of its introduction to Beijing.

yhoneycomb 7y ago
Who says the UN (whose strongholds of power largely lie in Anglo and European countries) should have any say over what China does?
- nradov 7y ago
  China is literally a permanent member of the Security Council. They are one of the UN strongholds of power in every possible sense.
- klez 7y ago
  Because China wanted to be part of the UN. If they don't want the UN to have any saying in their matters they should leave and face the consequences. I don't know if this says more about China or the UN, to be honest.
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  Hong Kong
fasthandle 7y ago
Beijing also detained the head of Interpol who has not been seen since (a Chinese citizen). Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-chinese-head-of-interpol-has-disappeared--in-china/2018/10/05/4e4878c2-c88f-11e8-9c0f-2ffaf6d422aa_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-chinese-head...

kartan 7y ago

> have no sympathy for those in Hong Kong who have more rights and a better standard of living than they do. I always find this paradox as interesting as sad. This Lose/Win mentality evolved as a solution to small community of humans with limited resources. In that situation, how to split the insufficient resources is the main problem. The more others get, the less is left for me. In current modern society, the more education and resources has the people around me the more they produce and I can benefit from it. Or brain did not evolve to our modern world, I guess. Helping people to think Win/Win would be a great paradigm shift moving into the future of our society.

chongli 7y ago
I always find this paradox as interesting as sad. It's crab mentality [1] and you're right, it's extremely sad. We see it absolutely everywhere. So many people who (for example) hate the rich rather than loving the poor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

chvid 7y ago

I think you touch on something very relevant. I have been there quite a few times and I like it there but many Chinese see Hong Kong people as spoiled and snobbish. Back when China took over Hong Kong, Hong Kong was something special. Today many mainland Chinese cities are just as wealthy and almost as international as Hong Kong; yet Hong Kong clings on to its special status. Why are these people not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?

khuey 7y ago
Many cities on the Chinese mainland are nearly as wealthy as Hong Kong but none of them are remotely as "international". And asking "why are [Hong Kongers] not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?" either betrays a serious lack of understanding of how the Chinese political system works or is a question asked in bad faith.
- chvid 7y ago
  How do you think your average Chinese in the neighbouring regions perceive these protest? Do you think they are sympathetic to your cause?
  - spacehunt 7y ago
    We have no idea of knowing, but from what I've heard, they are simply not aware. Almost anything with the phrase "Hong Kong" was censored inside mainland China today.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      It's not too hard to find something on Weibo, e.g. this post in support of the police [1] where the highest-upvoted comment at 281 votes condemns the police violence [2]. [1] https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4382509644815287 https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4382509644815287 面对困难，香港警察从不畏惧，坚决捍卫法律尊严！@香港警察 [2] 拿枪射无辜民众及记者，一群警察围殴女孩，拿胡椒喷雾射向老人及外国游客，这样就是维护法治吗

ksec 7y ago

It would have been possible, or at least HK thought that was going to happen 20 years ago. The whole of China will become more HK alike. Instead China's close grip on power meant any of these western Values were not allowed to be exposed. Even the spoken languages Cantonese is silently being killed at an alarming rate.

Haga 7y ago

That's from the same school of thought that brought us the Syrian red line on poisonous gas, the successes of the Arab spring and the democratic reforms after tieanmin square? Demanding a revolution far away from danger at the top of your voice while with your voting feet trampling these futures of choice? If you want to remain free get out of Hong Kong while you still can..

chungleong 7y ago

I don't know how you can export "mainlanders are locusts" to the rest of China.