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Is this question a trap? Isn't it rather obvious that Apple, a company that has never really had a business model built on surveillence, is less offensive than

by tobr 7y ago

Is this question a trap? Isn't it rather obvious that Apple, a company that has never really had a business model built on surveillence, is less offensive than Google in this regard?

amelius 7y ago
Yes, but fast forward 5 years, everybody has switched to Apple, and shareholders are getting worried that they might not see any growth this quarter ...
- HillaryBriss 7y ago
  Another risk to Apple would be that the regulatory machine of government more or less brings the Google/FB data vacuum under control in the next 5 years and consumers stop paying super high prices for Apple hardware and ecosystem membership. Because they trust Google/FB again. Ok, on second thought, that's an infinitesimally small risk.
- ahuth 7y ago
  This is always a possibility. At least Apple has a business model based on selling devices and services. Unlike Google (or Facebook, for example), monetizing users / analytics / tracking isn't the only option available to them. So you're right - Apple could always go down a bad path. But because of their respective business models, I'm more confident in Apple than Google.
  - 2T1Qka0rEiPr 7y ago
    I know this reason is often cited as why Apple are the privacy-focused company, but I guess its interesting that Google seem to be focussing more on products lately as well (in comparison to earlier, not in comparison to data-collection). They have their own phone line, tablets, smart speakers (data collection king), headphones etc. So if Google made something out of that market then I guess this distinction could over time diminish?
    - WorldMaker 7y ago
      If Apple has a bad quarter with iPhone sales, every shareholder takes notice and a lot of verbiage is written to shareholders to explain why that may have been the case and what if anything is being done to correct sales projections for the next quarter. Google doesn't have any products that are similar. Google mostly only answers similarly to shareholders if ad revenue is down. It would potentially take a lot to change in the world for any product to rival Google's ad revenue in prominence on shareholder reports.
harry8 7y ago
Apple, a company that hasn't yet had a business model... Or has it? They say not, I don't believe a word they say on the principle of not trusting liars. But maybe they're better than google in some dimension or other today. Wouldn't like to bet on it. Definitely wouldn't bet on what they'll do with their collected data in 5 years time. I want to trust the company that doesn't lie and doesn't collect data. Open Whisper Systems seem to do pretty well in that regard. Compared to apple? Apple will sell you up the river as soon as it makes business sense to do it. The question is when, not if.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  > Apple, a company that hasn't yet had a business model... Is this a joke that I don't get ? Apple had a net income north of 35B$ for 6 years, it sure looks like they found a way to run their business to me
  - harry8 7y ago
    "hasn't yet had a business model... built on surveillance." It's a change in wording of the parent, I thought it was obvious with the ellipses I was doing s/has never really had/hasn't yet/ on that comment. Apple will sell you up the river as soon as it suits them to do it, assuming they haven't already which you can't know. I really think it's terribly naive to come to a different opinion on that but some people just love Apple and strongly believe they can do no wrong. Even around here... Remember how apple were "nicer" than microsoft because they had no market share, then got it and became far, far worse immediately? 30% of your revenues taxed by apple for writing software running on the OS they wrote. Microsoft had wet dreams about being so evil. And so it is with their data collection, if they're nice only because they haven't yet worked out how to monetise it effectively with the opportunity cost of pretending they care about your privacy for marketing purposes, which they OBVIOUSLY don't. I mean seriously does anyone believe Apple give a flying hoot about your privacy? I struggle to see how such an opinion is tenable beyond "oh but they're not as bad as Google or Kim Jong Un yet"
    - tobr 7y ago

by tobr 7y ago

Is this question a trap? Isn't it rather obvious that Apple, a company that has never really had a business model built on surveillence, is less offensive than Google in this regard?

amelius 7y ago

Yes, but fast forward 5 years, everybody has switched to Apple, and shareholders are getting worried that they might not see any growth this quarter ...

HillaryBriss 7y ago
Another risk to Apple would be that the regulatory machine of government more or less brings the Google/FB data vacuum under control in the next 5 years and consumers stop paying super high prices for Apple hardware and ecosystem membership. Because they trust Google/FB again. Ok, on second thought, that's an infinitesimally small risk.
ahuth 7y ago
This is always a possibility. At least Apple has a business model based on selling devices and services. Unlike Google (or Facebook, for example), monetizing users / analytics / tracking isn't the only option available to them. So you're right - Apple could always go down a bad path. But because of their respective business models, I'm more confident in Apple than Google.
- 2T1Qka0rEiPr 7y ago
  I know this reason is often cited as why Apple are the privacy-focused company, but I guess its interesting that Google seem to be focussing more on products lately as well (in comparison to earlier, not in comparison to data-collection). They have their own phone line, tablets, smart speakers (data collection king), headphones etc. So if Google made something out of that market then I guess this distinction could over time diminish?
  - WorldMaker 7y ago
    If Apple has a bad quarter with iPhone sales, every shareholder takes notice and a lot of verbiage is written to shareholders to explain why that may have been the case and what if anything is being done to correct sales projections for the next quarter. Google doesn't have any products that are similar. Google mostly only answers similarly to shareholders if ad revenue is down. It would potentially take a lot to change in the world for any product to rival Google's ad revenue in prominence on shareholder reports.

harry8 7y ago

Apple, a company that hasn't yet had a business model... Or has it? They say not, I don't believe a word they say on the principle of not trusting liars. But maybe they're better than google in some dimension or other today. Wouldn't like to bet on it. Definitely wouldn't bet on what they'll do with their collected data in 5 years time. I want to trust the company that doesn't lie and doesn't collect data. Open Whisper Systems seem to do pretty well in that regard. Compared to apple? Apple will sell you up the river as soon as it makes business sense to do it. The question is when, not if.

Majestic121 7y ago
> Apple, a company that hasn't yet had a business model... Is this a joke that I don't get ? Apple had a net income north of 35B$ for 6 years, it sure looks like they found a way to run their business to me
- harry8 7y ago
  "hasn't yet had a business model... built on surveillance." It's a change in wording of the parent, I thought it was obvious with the ellipses I was doing s/has never really had/hasn't yet/ on that comment. Apple will sell you up the river as soon as it suits them to do it, assuming they haven't already which you can't know. I really think it's terribly naive to come to a different opinion on that but some people just love Apple and strongly believe they can do no wrong. Even around here... Remember how apple were "nicer" than microsoft because they had no market share, then got it and became far, far worse immediately? 30% of your revenues taxed by apple for writing software running on the OS they wrote. Microsoft had wet dreams about being so evil. And so it is with their data collection, if they're nice only because they haven't yet worked out how to monetise it effectively with the opportunity cost of pretending they care about your privacy for marketing purposes, which they OBVIOUSLY don't. I mean seriously does anyone believe Apple give a flying hoot about your privacy? I struggle to see how such an opinion is tenable beyond "oh but they're not as bad as Google or Kim Jong Un yet"
  - tobr 7y ago