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For Men Who Hate Talking on the Phone, Games Keep Friendships Alive

259 points by wallflower 7y ago

outime 7y ago
I made true friends through Ventrilo/TeamSpeak and different games (but mostly Counter-Strike). I’ve never made a phone call to a friend unless truly necessary but I’ve spent several hours talking through these. Nowadays with Discord it’s just so much easier and fun for everyone. I’m happy that it was invented and just wish it was open-source but oh well.
- qznc 7y ago
  What is wrong with Mumble? https://www.mumble.com/ https://www.mumble.com/
  - hi5eyes 7y ago
    discords communities make it more powerful than almost any site/service save maybe for irc at its peak if you’re early 20s or younger everyones on discord, even if you dont game. its a general group messaging platform
  - JimiofEden 7y ago
    Lack of users in my experience. The people on mumble tend to be the 'old guard' or people who have been playing MMOs or online games since 90s/early 00s. But all of my friends or new people I've met are all on Discord only
  - kazagistar 7y ago
    Discord won the bigger marketshare due to being accessible from a browser and featureful. And it's a market where marketshare winner takes all, because of the need to exchange contact information with someone you just met on a platform you share.
  - ohithereyou 7y ago
    My high school/college friends and I (we've been out of school for nearly 15 years at this point) moved to Discord from Mumble. Here were our reasons why: * persistent text chat - we're spread across different time zones, and the ability to talk separated by time without having to resort to a forum is very nice, pinging someone with a question or with a reminder for our next game and anime night is really nice; having a separate space from group SMS (which we don't really use) is nice because when I'm at work I can log out of Discord and not be bothered, and if I get an SMS I know that it's something that I have to deal with now * consistent interface across mobile and desktop - it's nice to have a consistent, universal interface across desktop (Mac, Linux, Windows) and mobile (iOS and Android) versions; it's nice that there are multiple apps for Mumble, but that makes support more difficult * built in screen sharing support - see support note above * channel permissions - we have subgroups based on interest, listed in an announce channel, and people that want to join in on that discussion can, but people who are uninterested in, say, Warhammer, discussion don't even have that channel cluttering up their interface, nor do they have to explicitly mute it * push notifications - see ping above, it's nice * better bot integration - for me, anyway, it's easier to integrate bots into Discord than it is for Mumble - this is subjective Those are just the reasons I could think of off the top of my head. I would love to be able to self-host our Discord server, and if it had existed at the level of maturity that it is at now, I probably would have suggested moving to Matrix or something similar.
gtirloni 7y ago
Interesting, I've never thought about this but it matches my recent experience. Friendship as an adult has been about shared interests, not being assigned to the same class or living nearby, so it makes sense.
- elvecinodeabajo 7y ago
  Totally. I didn't think about that ever but it's true. Aversion to the phone calls doesn't appear when talking to other in VoIP chats when playing online games. Cool thought.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Why is that though? Does someone like Trello have a discord-to-POTS bridge?
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  >Friendship as an adult has been about shared interests, not being assigned to the same class or living nearby, Hits too close to home there.
- criddell 7y ago
  Kids change it too. It's hard not to make friends when you see the same parents a couple times a week at soccer or baseball or swimming, year-after-year. There's a lot of downtime and you around people that you have something in common with.
  - Steve44 7y ago
    With both of our kids we had a great social life with groups of the other parents all through school. There were annual dances, fetes, mums nights out, dads nights out, meeting for a quick beer etc. etc. Now the kids have left school the majority of that has dropped off, we do keep in good social contact with a couple of people but I really miss how busy and varied the social life used to be.
klausjensen 7y ago
I second this... One of my best friends moved to another country, and we regularly talk on VOIP during console games. Hell, sometimes we talk for an hour and never even manage to start the game...
monk_e_boy 7y ago
I’ve seen this with my kids and their school friends when they play online together. They chat and encourage each other, its really sweet and completely different to their off line rough and tumble play. I wake up on the weekends to quiet whispers of “sick play, dude.”
- lifeisstillgood 7y ago
  What ages are your kids / what games do they play (as a father of three i want to encourage the good stuff / discourage the bad)
  - monk_e_boy 7y ago
    10 and 7, although the 7 year old plays with the 10 year olds online. They play minecraft, fortnite, brawlhalla, titanfall 2 ... mostly. They play in the lounge with us watching (I'll youtube while they play) and any game that is a 15, group chat is off. We are on PS4 so you can turn game chat off and turn friend chat on in the PS4 friend settings.
ken 7y ago
How’s the sound quality of these gaming systems? I hate talking on phones more than ever because rectangular “candybar” smartphones aren’t a good fit for a face, and the audio quality is terrible. I have to keep saying “What did you say?” Of course I prefer meeting in person, and ideally in a place that isn’t pumping in music. It’s the only way to hold an actual conversation.
- keypusher 7y ago
  Sound quality and audio codec compression of these services (Discord, Mumble, Teamspeak, Ventrilo) is generally quite good, they are designed to support rapid coordination of large groups in high intensity situations and e-sports tournaments. It was not uncommon to have 40+ people in a single voice channel for MMO raids 10 years ago, and things have only improved since then. However, your experience will be significantly affected by your choice of headset and microphone. I have spent a lot of time in voice channels and it's common to have long conversations among groups of friends or online acquaintances there.
- vwyxp 7y ago
  Sound quality is perfectly fine. When it's not, it's always because the other party has a crappy microphone or a crappy connection.
  - kazagistar 7y ago
    I just had a chat on mumble last night catching up with a collage friend who now lives back home in the middle east. It was totally fine and clear. I also had a chat with my mother over a cell phone, and she lives in another city in the same state, and that quality was way worse and actually dropped audio at one point. It's really kinda embarrassing how bad phones are at this point, relatively speaking.
- bartwe 7y ago
  With proper headphones, mic and a higher bitrate it is superior to phonecalls
yay_cloud2 7y ago
For me, this is fantasy hockey. I don't even like to watch hockey anymore, but I enjoy the daily interaction with my friends who are no longer in the same city and busy with their own lives.
momokoko 7y ago
To maintain relationships as an adult you need regularly scheduled recurring events. Whether its a cookout every other Sunday, a Friday happy hour, Thursday night online gaming, or anything really. But it must be a recurring event that does not need to be planned each time, but not going is still considered something you are cancelling. This was common knowledge until we had a generation will cell phones which greatly reduced the amount of informal regularly scheduled events. In large part because coordination is not nearly as difficult so there is less push to just set something up that occurs once every two weeks as opposed to jus doing it last minute via group chat.
- neilv 7y ago
  Or weekly/frequent religious community gatherings. People who aren't familiar with that might not appreciate the community aspect. For example, for some flavor of American Catholics, much of a normal Sunday can be blown (as far as the kids are concerned) by dressing up in Sunday best clothes, attending the big folk music mass, the chatter as people spill out of the church and maybe also talk with the priest out back after the procession out, followed by hours of "coffee and donuts" socializing in the parish's school cafeteria or meeting hall. I'm not that kind of religious, but that's one way to find and maintain friendships, as well as sense of community and mutual support.
  - throwaway50003 7y ago
    It seems that every time a social topic comes up on HN someone will extol the virtues of church attendance and their sense of community. Like, seriously, if some HNers are that nostalgic towards churches why don't you guys join one of the many congregations out there?
    - bartwe 7y ago
      Would be weird if you dont believe their variant/flavour
      - throwaway50003 7y ago
JeffL 7y ago
I was playing a Moba with my brother almost every day, talking on voice while we played. I had to quit because the Moba was really sucking up all my drive and free time, but after quitting, I really missed talking with my brother. I started playing again for that reason, but had to quit again, because in the year and a half I was playing that game, I really got nothing done other than have lots of fun and piss off my wife. Of course I never call my brother on the phone otherwise, I have no reason to. I have a really hard time finding a middle ground, but the social aspect of gaming is definitely one of the strong positives for me.
- ducttape12 7y ago
  Why not agree to play once or twice a week? For example, every Monday night, you two jump on for a few hours and play and catch up? Also, what do you mean you got nothing done? You bonded with your brother. That seems pretty valuable to me!
  - watwut 7y ago
    I am not him, but for me "nothing done" in similar situation meant that I did not learned new programming related things despite needing to, did not contributed to household chores as much as I should, deteriorated/neglected relationships with people actually around me and nearby, personal projects did not moved and stuff I was supposed to organize was not organized. A lot of these games are designed in a way that makes them less fun when played only a little. Or you become a drag on the team. There are also long term quests and you need to be present to participate. An explocite agreement on playing twice a week breaks "plausible deniality" here. For some reason it is hard to admit that we are doing it for social reasons. It would be like calling brother on the phone directly - the same block preventing you one action prevents the other.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      >A lot of these games are designed in a way that makes them less fun when played only a little. Or you become a drag on the team. There are also long term quests and you need to be present to participate. I think the solution to this is to find games that don’t do that
Funes- 7y ago
>Like others his age, Gill says that his close friendships from high school and college have atrophied, not only because of the distance but because of their mutual aversion to talking on the phone. I'll take the liberty to illustrate my own experience: my number of friendships and acquaintances has incredibly declined not because of any personal aversion to voicecalls, but to texting and social media. I've noticed how, gradually, people I'm frequently around have grown more and more reluctant not only to pick up a phone call but also--and more importantly--to engage in face-to-face interaction, something I find absolutely essential to fulfill one's social needs to a deeply satisfying extent. Not having an online, public presence makes you irrelevant to a lot of people. In some countries, for example, not using WhatsApp is plain social suicide.
- tluyben2 7y ago
  Maybe I am reading this wrong, but I guess I have the opposite experience. With phonecalls I had issues because I have serious tinnitus and have had that since I was young (played in metal bands and was a real man so no earplugs...). Since chatting became normal I made more solid friendships then I ever did in person and definitely then on the phone. I chat like we are sitting together which people find akward at first but then they seem to like it. It is not very different after a while if it is face to face vs writing 1000s of lines of text in some chat client. And the conversations are usually more profound; no noise, no drinking and time to ponder answers and questions. Face to face I personally still prefer but I notice my younger friends do not and that is fine. I have been making (and losing them as well; especially the ones I made in my teens: we have nothing at all in common anymore mostly) real friends (as in people that click fast and you talk with day and night if the opportunity is there) over 30 and over 40; those were met online via sideprojects, company buys and sells and some of them I have never met.
  - kazagistar 7y ago
    > no noise, no drinking I strongly recommend casual wandering walks for anyone without mobility issues as a bar replacement. I don't even remember where I picked up the habit, but I never was really introduced to bars until later, and they always seemed inferior and have shown a few of my friends the benefits of walking around outside and having a chat (sobriety optional).
ducttape12 7y ago
Chatting can be difficult for men. As a man, we tend to not make points about chatting about our feelings or life. But, when our goal is video games / bowling / watching a football game / whatever else with downtime, well, the feelings or life conversations aren't our focus then. Loophole! (not to mention sometimes serious conversations can cause awkward silences. Everyone has the activity to turn back to.)
- throwaway50003 7y ago
  s/men/stereotype-conforming American men in their late 20s and older/g
- pessimizer 7y ago
  It can also be boring and annoying to talk about politics, the weather, or to gossip about people not present. Video games, like sports, offer a very detailed, completely trivial subject to talk about. Additionally, silence while watching or playing a game isn't dead (like silences at the holiday dinner table), it's a steady stream of new conversational material.
faitswulff 7y ago
Having just watched the "Striking Vipers" Black Mirror episode, it was mildly frustrating watching men do everything but talk...
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  I don't know what you mean by frustrating. For a Black Mirror episode, it had such a happy ending!
  - faitswulff 7y ago
    Yeah, maybe I've spent too much time on r/sex and r/relationships. The answer is always communication! It's just surprising to me that someone could be in a relationship for 10+ years and not communicate everything, no matter how embarrassing or intimate.
- randomvectors 7y ago
  First thing that popped in my head when I read the headline. Really liked the episode.
petra 7y ago
Why hasn't this caught on for watching TV together, online ?
- javagram 7y ago
  A lot of people dislike talking while watching TV together. FWIW, Xbox used to have this feature back in 2009-10. You could synchronize a video with up to 4 friends and watch Netflix or movies/tv from the Zune store with them over party chat in a virtual theater. The screen could be full screen or you could zoom out a bit and make your avatars emote while watching. They discontinued the feature after a couple years saying it wasn’t very used.
- rocky1138 7y ago
  It's socially unacceptable to talk over a movie or TV show, but welcomed when talking over videogames.
  - anon4242 7y ago
    This probably has something to do with a movie/TV show is a ready-made story you mentally dive into while a multiplayer game session is a story that you create together. In the first case talking is disrupting while in the second it's part of the story.
manfredo 7y ago
I used to play WoW with a childhood friend on the other side of the country. Unlike MOBAs, I find that WoW is (or at least was during BC and WotLK) are mindless enough that you can actually hold a real conversation.
knolax 7y ago
That has been my experience. Friendships are best formed and maintained by working towards some mutual goal or at the very least regular interaction. In the absence of physical proximity games are pretty much the only recreational option.
papeda 7y ago
As for many things, there's a nice Knausgaard quote about this: > That’s what distance does; when the time between conversations gets longer, intimacy diminishes, the little things connected to one’s daily life lose their place, it seems odd to talk about a shirt you just bought or to mention you’re thinking of leaving the dishes until morning when you haven’t spoken to a person for two weeks or a month, that absence would seem instead to call for more important topics, and once they begin to determine the conversation there’s no turning back, because then it’s two diplomats exchanging information about their respective realms in a conversation that needs to be started up from scratch, in a sense, every time, which gradually becomes tedious, and eventually it’s easier not to bother phoning at all, in which case it’s even harder the next time, and then suddenly it’s been half a year of silence. I'm a guy and I like phone calls to friends, but I let them wander organically with little pressure. Of course, my friends and I have lives where it's not a big deal to set aside an hour or two for meandering conversation, and not everybody does. But wandering conversation is such a high-utility activity for me that I'm happy to do so. At any rate, it beats watching Netflix or whatever by a mile -- I remain confused by how many people say they have no time for friends but also consume a bunch of solo entertainment. I guess if your free time comes in unpredictably scheduled half hour blocks it might simultaneously be hard to plan hangouts and easy to watch TV, but I don't think most people have that kind of life, outside of maybe certain sets of parents of young children?
- agumonkey 7y ago
  The quote is very interesting but I'd add something. Most of our dreads started after teenagehood, when social bonding was of high importance. Yet it often becomes a diplomatic effort, often void of real emotion. Real is too strong, but it's not vibrant nor fun most of the time. It's smalltalk. And we keep at it because as an adult it's deemed very important, even though, younger, relationships didn't center around mild chat, it was about having fun, cracking jokes, sharing a childish venture, getting something happy about the interaction. ps: ah well, universe is poking fun at me, a very old friend just sent me a text after many months :)
  - roymurdock 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mmsimanga 7y ago
Not sure if it is something I picked up from my dad but I hardly chat to friends I have made over the years. As I have grown older I have gotten closer to my family including extended family. When I do meet with my friends we kick off as if we last saw each other yesterday yet sometimes it is a good 5,10 or even 15 years since we last met. The older I get the more memories I seem to have that include my family so I just focus on them. Not to say I don't talk to other people but I make way more effort and it seems much easier to talk to family. Maybe it is an African thing most of us are big on extended family. My uncle is a good 15 years older than me. Growing up he was an adult now we both adults so we can converse on the same level. Same with my dad.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Nah you just described me and my father to an extent. There are variables, but what you described really sounded familiar. And my dad’s side is Scottish. My mom is more social and cognizant if social needs (Irish). Though less so now that they’re getting older/retired. I’m not sure how well it mixes with the norms of Canadian society here. Often feels a touch off-centre but not entirely out of place. So maybe more a trait of people who just tend toward family over other social connections, and less a heritage thing?
  - mmsimanga 7y ago
    Thanks for sharing. Within the extended family different people grow into different roles. You have the aunt who everyone confides in she always tells you as it is whether you want to hear it or not. But since you know it is coming from a place of love its all good. In your 20s you do all the running around. Slaughtering whatever animal needs to be slaughtered. In your 30 and 40s you the ones that make sure things move. You help organise weddings, family meetups, funerals and so on. All these occasions tend to be big back home. Then you transition into a senior role where you act as an advisor to the 30 year olds organising everything. Finally when you are grandmother/father age you just an honoured guest who can do whatever they want :-). You become the joker, family historian ... whatever you want really.
blegblarh 7y ago
Man I can relate! I met most of my closest friends in College and we graduated almost a decade ago and have ended up moving to different parts of the states but I keep in contact with most of them via a Discord server and play with some of them on a near daily basis. It's really great since it feels like we are just hanging out in the dorm hall just shooting the shit.
brightball 7y ago
There’s a buddy of mine who I stay in touch with by playing Chess on a mobile app. We’ve had a game going at all times for probably 4 years now with a 3 day time limit on moves. He’s a lot better than me. Overall record is something like 200-50, but it’s a simple way to keep in touch. Other than that, all of my friends of college stay in touch because of college football. We all follow the team, get together at different away games and bowl games. Home games are actually tougher because most people come with a family routine for those.
DigitalTerminal 7y ago
And it really works. I can chat with my friends, talk during the game, but I'll never talk on the phone. Idk why, but it's nice to know that this is just not my way.
RichardHeart 7y ago
It's funny how s05e01 of Black Mirror addressesthis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_Vipers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_Vipers
- krsrhe 7y ago
  That’s probably a why the article was written.

259 points by wallflower 7y ago

I made true friends through Ventrilo/TeamSpeak and different games (but mostly Counter-Strike). I’ve never made a phone call to a friend unless truly necessary but I’ve spent several hours talking through these. Nowadays with Discord it’s just so much easier and fun for everyone. I’m happy that it was invented and just wish it was open-source but oh well.

qznc 7y ago
What is wrong with Mumble? https://www.mumble.com/ https://www.mumble.com/
- hi5eyes 7y ago
  discords communities make it more powerful than almost any site/service save maybe for irc at its peak if you’re early 20s or younger everyones on discord, even if you dont game. its a general group messaging platform
- JimiofEden 7y ago
  Lack of users in my experience. The people on mumble tend to be the 'old guard' or people who have been playing MMOs or online games since 90s/early 00s. But all of my friends or new people I've met are all on Discord only
- kazagistar 7y ago
  Discord won the bigger marketshare due to being accessible from a browser and featureful. And it's a market where marketshare winner takes all, because of the need to exchange contact information with someone you just met on a platform you share.
- ohithereyou 7y ago
  My high school/college friends and I (we've been out of school for nearly 15 years at this point) moved to Discord from Mumble. Here were our reasons why: * persistent text chat - we're spread across different time zones, and the ability to talk separated by time without having to resort to a forum is very nice, pinging someone with a question or with a reminder for our next game and anime night is really nice; having a separate space from group SMS (which we don't really use) is nice because when I'm at work I can log out of Discord and not be bothered, and if I get an SMS I know that it's something that I have to deal with now * consistent interface across mobile and desktop - it's nice to have a consistent, universal interface across desktop (Mac, Linux, Windows) and mobile (iOS and Android) versions; it's nice that there are multiple apps for Mumble, but that makes support more difficult * built in screen sharing support - see support note above * channel permissions - we have subgroups based on interest, listed in an announce channel, and people that want to join in on that discussion can, but people who are uninterested in, say, Warhammer, discussion don't even have that channel cluttering up their interface, nor do they have to explicitly mute it * push notifications - see ping above, it's nice * better bot integration - for me, anyway, it's easier to integrate bots into Discord than it is for Mumble - this is subjective Those are just the reasons I could think of off the top of my head. I would love to be able to self-host our Discord server, and if it had existed at the level of maturity that it is at now, I probably would have suggested moving to Matrix or something similar.

gtirloni 7y ago

Interesting, I've never thought about this but it matches my recent experience. Friendship as an adult has been about shared interests, not being assigned to the same class or living nearby, so it makes sense.

elvecinodeabajo 7y ago
Totally. I didn't think about that ever but it's true. Aversion to the phone calls doesn't appear when talking to other in VoIP chats when playing online games. Cool thought.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Why is that though? Does someone like Trello have a discord-to-POTS bridge?
HNLurker2 7y ago
>Friendship as an adult has been about shared interests, not being assigned to the same class or living nearby, Hits too close to home there.
criddell 7y ago
Kids change it too. It's hard not to make friends when you see the same parents a couple times a week at soccer or baseball or swimming, year-after-year. There's a lot of downtime and you around people that you have something in common with.
- Steve44 7y ago
  With both of our kids we had a great social life with groups of the other parents all through school. There were annual dances, fetes, mums nights out, dads nights out, meeting for a quick beer etc. etc. Now the kids have left school the majority of that has dropped off, we do keep in good social contact with a couple of people but I really miss how busy and varied the social life used to be.

klausjensen 7y ago

I second this... One of my best friends moved to another country, and we regularly talk on VOIP during console games. Hell, sometimes we talk for an hour and never even manage to start the game...

monk_e_boy 7y ago

I’ve seen this with my kids and their school friends when they play online together. They chat and encourage each other, its really sweet and completely different to their off line rough and tumble play. I wake up on the weekends to quiet whispers of “sick play, dude.”

lifeisstillgood 7y ago
What ages are your kids / what games do they play (as a father of three i want to encourage the good stuff / discourage the bad)
- monk_e_boy 7y ago
  10 and 7, although the 7 year old plays with the 10 year olds online. They play minecraft, fortnite, brawlhalla, titanfall 2 ... mostly. They play in the lounge with us watching (I'll youtube while they play) and any game that is a 15, group chat is off. We are on PS4 so you can turn game chat off and turn friend chat on in the PS4 friend settings.

ken 7y ago

How’s the sound quality of these gaming systems? I hate talking on phones more than ever because rectangular “candybar” smartphones aren’t a good fit for a face, and the audio quality is terrible. I have to keep saying “What did you say?” Of course I prefer meeting in person, and ideally in a place that isn’t pumping in music. It’s the only way to hold an actual conversation.

keypusher 7y ago
Sound quality and audio codec compression of these services (Discord, Mumble, Teamspeak, Ventrilo) is generally quite good, they are designed to support rapid coordination of large groups in high intensity situations and e-sports tournaments. It was not uncommon to have 40+ people in a single voice channel for MMO raids 10 years ago, and things have only improved since then. However, your experience will be significantly affected by your choice of headset and microphone. I have spent a lot of time in voice channels and it's common to have long conversations among groups of friends or online acquaintances there.
vwyxp 7y ago
Sound quality is perfectly fine. When it's not, it's always because the other party has a crappy microphone or a crappy connection.
- kazagistar 7y ago
  I just had a chat on mumble last night catching up with a collage friend who now lives back home in the middle east. It was totally fine and clear. I also had a chat with my mother over a cell phone, and she lives in another city in the same state, and that quality was way worse and actually dropped audio at one point. It's really kinda embarrassing how bad phones are at this point, relatively speaking.
bartwe 7y ago
With proper headphones, mic and a higher bitrate it is superior to phonecalls

yay_cloud2 7y ago

For me, this is fantasy hockey. I don't even like to watch hockey anymore, but I enjoy the daily interaction with my friends who are no longer in the same city and busy with their own lives.

momokoko 7y ago

To maintain relationships as an adult you need regularly scheduled recurring events. Whether its a cookout every other Sunday, a Friday happy hour, Thursday night online gaming, or anything really. But it must be a recurring event that does not need to be planned each time, but not going is still considered something you are cancelling. This was common knowledge until we had a generation will cell phones which greatly reduced the amount of informal regularly scheduled events. In large part because coordination is not nearly as difficult so there is less push to just set something up that occurs once every two weeks as opposed to jus doing it last minute via group chat.

neilv 7y ago
Or weekly/frequent religious community gatherings. People who aren't familiar with that might not appreciate the community aspect. For example, for some flavor of American Catholics, much of a normal Sunday can be blown (as far as the kids are concerned) by dressing up in Sunday best clothes, attending the big folk music mass, the chatter as people spill out of the church and maybe also talk with the priest out back after the procession out, followed by hours of "coffee and donuts" socializing in the parish's school cafeteria or meeting hall. I'm not that kind of religious, but that's one way to find and maintain friendships, as well as sense of community and mutual support.
- throwaway50003 7y ago
  It seems that every time a social topic comes up on HN someone will extol the virtues of church attendance and their sense of community. Like, seriously, if some HNers are that nostalgic towards churches why don't you guys join one of the many congregations out there?
  - bartwe 7y ago
    Would be weird if you dont believe their variant/flavour
    - throwaway50003 7y ago

JeffL 7y ago

I was playing a Moba with my brother almost every day, talking on voice while we played. I had to quit because the Moba was really sucking up all my drive and free time, but after quitting, I really missed talking with my brother. I started playing again for that reason, but had to quit again, because in the year and a half I was playing that game, I really got nothing done other than have lots of fun and piss off my wife. Of course I never call my brother on the phone otherwise, I have no reason to. I have a really hard time finding a middle ground, but the social aspect of gaming is definitely one of the strong positives for me.

ducttape12 7y ago
Why not agree to play once or twice a week? For example, every Monday night, you two jump on for a few hours and play and catch up? Also, what do you mean you got nothing done? You bonded with your brother. That seems pretty valuable to me!
- watwut 7y ago
  I am not him, but for me "nothing done" in similar situation meant that I did not learned new programming related things despite needing to, did not contributed to household chores as much as I should, deteriorated/neglected relationships with people actually around me and nearby, personal projects did not moved and stuff I was supposed to organize was not organized. A lot of these games are designed in a way that makes them less fun when played only a little. Or you become a drag on the team. There are also long term quests and you need to be present to participate. An explocite agreement on playing twice a week breaks "plausible deniality" here. For some reason it is hard to admit that we are doing it for social reasons. It would be like calling brother on the phone directly - the same block preventing you one action prevents the other.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    >A lot of these games are designed in a way that makes them less fun when played only a little. Or you become a drag on the team. There are also long term quests and you need to be present to participate. I think the solution to this is to find games that don’t do that

Funes- 7y ago

>Like others his age, Gill says that his close friendships from high school and college have atrophied, not only because of the distance but because of their mutual aversion to talking on the phone. I'll take the liberty to illustrate my own experience: my number of friendships and acquaintances has incredibly declined not because of any personal aversion to voicecalls, but to texting and social media. I've noticed how, gradually, people I'm frequently around have grown more and more reluctant not only to pick up a phone call but also--and more importantly--to engage in face-to-face interaction, something I find absolutely essential to fulfill one's social needs to a deeply satisfying extent. Not having an online, public presence makes you irrelevant to a lot of people. In some countries, for example, not using WhatsApp is plain social suicide.

tluyben2 7y ago
Maybe I am reading this wrong, but I guess I have the opposite experience. With phonecalls I had issues because I have serious tinnitus and have had that since I was young (played in metal bands and was a real man so no earplugs...). Since chatting became normal I made more solid friendships then I ever did in person and definitely then on the phone. I chat like we are sitting together which people find akward at first but then they seem to like it. It is not very different after a while if it is face to face vs writing 1000s of lines of text in some chat client. And the conversations are usually more profound; no noise, no drinking and time to ponder answers and questions. Face to face I personally still prefer but I notice my younger friends do not and that is fine. I have been making (and losing them as well; especially the ones I made in my teens: we have nothing at all in common anymore mostly) real friends (as in people that click fast and you talk with day and night if the opportunity is there) over 30 and over 40; those were met online via sideprojects, company buys and sells and some of them I have never met.
- kazagistar 7y ago
  > no noise, no drinking I strongly recommend casual wandering walks for anyone without mobility issues as a bar replacement. I don't even remember where I picked up the habit, but I never was really introduced to bars until later, and they always seemed inferior and have shown a few of my friends the benefits of walking around outside and having a chat (sobriety optional).

ducttape12 7y ago

Chatting can be difficult for men. As a man, we tend to not make points about chatting about our feelings or life. But, when our goal is video games / bowling / watching a football game / whatever else with downtime, well, the feelings or life conversations aren't our focus then. Loophole! (not to mention sometimes serious conversations can cause awkward silences. Everyone has the activity to turn back to.)

throwaway50003 7y ago
s/men/stereotype-conforming American men in their late 20s and older/g
pessimizer 7y ago
It can also be boring and annoying to talk about politics, the weather, or to gossip about people not present. Video games, like sports, offer a very detailed, completely trivial subject to talk about. Additionally, silence while watching or playing a game isn't dead (like silences at the holiday dinner table), it's a steady stream of new conversational material.

faitswulff 7y ago

Having just watched the "Striking Vipers" Black Mirror episode, it was mildly frustrating watching men do everything but talk...

DonHopkins 7y ago
I don't know what you mean by frustrating. For a Black Mirror episode, it had such a happy ending!
- faitswulff 7y ago
  Yeah, maybe I've spent too much time on r/sex and r/relationships. The answer is always communication! It's just surprising to me that someone could be in a relationship for 10+ years and not communicate everything, no matter how embarrassing or intimate.
randomvectors 7y ago
First thing that popped in my head when I read the headline. Really liked the episode.

petra 7y ago

Why hasn't this caught on for watching TV together, online ?

javagram 7y ago
A lot of people dislike talking while watching TV together. FWIW, Xbox used to have this feature back in 2009-10. You could synchronize a video with up to 4 friends and watch Netflix or movies/tv from the Zune store with them over party chat in a virtual theater. The screen could be full screen or you could zoom out a bit and make your avatars emote while watching. They discontinued the feature after a couple years saying it wasn’t very used.
rocky1138 7y ago
It's socially unacceptable to talk over a movie or TV show, but welcomed when talking over videogames.
- anon4242 7y ago
  This probably has something to do with a movie/TV show is a ready-made story you mentally dive into while a multiplayer game session is a story that you create together. In the first case talking is disrupting while in the second it's part of the story.

manfredo 7y ago

I used to play WoW with a childhood friend on the other side of the country. Unlike MOBAs, I find that WoW is (or at least was during BC and WotLK) are mindless enough that you can actually hold a real conversation.

knolax 7y ago

That has been my experience. Friendships are best formed and maintained by working towards some mutual goal or at the very least regular interaction. In the absence of physical proximity games are pretty much the only recreational option.

papeda 7y ago

As for many things, there's a nice Knausgaard quote about this: > That’s what distance does; when the time between conversations gets longer, intimacy diminishes, the little things connected to one’s daily life lose their place, it seems odd to talk about a shirt you just bought or to mention you’re thinking of leaving the dishes until morning when you haven’t spoken to a person for two weeks or a month, that absence would seem instead to call for more important topics, and once they begin to determine the conversation there’s no turning back, because then it’s two diplomats exchanging information about their respective realms in a conversation that needs to be started up from scratch, in a sense, every time, which gradually becomes tedious, and eventually it’s easier not to bother phoning at all, in which case it’s even harder the next time, and then suddenly it’s been half a year of silence. I'm a guy and I like phone calls to friends, but I let them wander organically with little pressure. Of course, my friends and I have lives where it's not a big deal to set aside an hour or two for meandering conversation, and not everybody does. But wandering conversation is such a high-utility activity for me that I'm happy to do so. At any rate, it beats watching Netflix or whatever by a mile -- I remain confused by how many people say they have no time for friends but also consume a bunch of solo entertainment. I guess if your free time comes in unpredictably scheduled half hour blocks it might simultaneously be hard to plan hangouts and easy to watch TV, but I don't think most people have that kind of life, outside of maybe certain sets of parents of young children?

agumonkey 7y ago
The quote is very interesting but I'd add something. Most of our dreads started after teenagehood, when social bonding was of high importance. Yet it often becomes a diplomatic effort, often void of real emotion. Real is too strong, but it's not vibrant nor fun most of the time. It's smalltalk. And we keep at it because as an adult it's deemed very important, even though, younger, relationships didn't center around mild chat, it was about having fun, cracking jokes, sharing a childish venture, getting something happy about the interaction. ps: ah well, universe is poking fun at me, a very old friend just sent me a text after many months :)
- roymurdock 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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mmsimanga 7y ago

Not sure if it is something I picked up from my dad but I hardly chat to friends I have made over the years. As I have grown older I have gotten closer to my family including extended family. When I do meet with my friends we kick off as if we last saw each other yesterday yet sometimes it is a good 5,10 or even 15 years since we last met. The older I get the more memories I seem to have that include my family so I just focus on them. Not to say I don't talk to other people but I make way more effort and it seems much easier to talk to family. Maybe it is an African thing most of us are big on extended family. My uncle is a good 15 years older than me. Growing up he was an adult now we both adults so we can converse on the same level. Same with my dad.

52-6F-62 7y ago
Nah you just described me and my father to an extent. There are variables, but what you described really sounded familiar. And my dad’s side is Scottish. My mom is more social and cognizant if social needs (Irish). Though less so now that they’re getting older/retired. I’m not sure how well it mixes with the norms of Canadian society here. Often feels a touch off-centre but not entirely out of place. So maybe more a trait of people who just tend toward family over other social connections, and less a heritage thing?
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Within the extended family different people grow into different roles. You have the aunt who everyone confides in she always tells you as it is whether you want to hear it or not. But since you know it is coming from a place of love its all good. In your 20s you do all the running around. Slaughtering whatever animal needs to be slaughtered. In your 30 and 40s you the ones that make sure things move. You help organise weddings, family meetups, funerals and so on. All these occasions tend to be big back home. Then you transition into a senior role where you act as an advisor to the 30 year olds organising everything. Finally when you are grandmother/father age you just an honoured guest who can do whatever they want :-). You become the joker, family historian ... whatever you want really.

blegblarh 7y ago

Man I can relate! I met most of my closest friends in College and we graduated almost a decade ago and have ended up moving to different parts of the states but I keep in contact with most of them via a Discord server and play with some of them on a near daily basis. It's really great since it feels like we are just hanging out in the dorm hall just shooting the shit.

brightball 7y ago

There’s a buddy of mine who I stay in touch with by playing Chess on a mobile app. We’ve had a game going at all times for probably 4 years now with a 3 day time limit on moves. He’s a lot better than me. Overall record is something like 200-50, but it’s a simple way to keep in touch. Other than that, all of my friends of college stay in touch because of college football. We all follow the team, get together at different away games and bowl games. Home games are actually tougher because most people come with a family routine for those.

DigitalTerminal 7y ago

And it really works. I can chat with my friends, talk during the game, but I'll never talk on the phone. Idk why, but it's nice to know that this is just not my way.

RichardHeart 7y ago

It's funny how s05e01 of Black Mirror addressesthis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_Vipers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_Vipers

krsrhe 7y ago
That’s probably a why the article was written.