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Disclaimer: I am German. I absolutely hate driving on the Autobahn in Germany. The pure stress and the amount of assholes you encounter is absolutely astonishi

Disclaimer: I am German. I absolutely hate driving on the Autobahn in Germany. The pure stress and the amount of assholes you encounter is absolutely astonishing. I have driven cars before in other countries, including the “chaotic” Italy and the US, and it was always a more pleasant experience.

Scoundreller 7y ago
Was the US pleasant because of the lower speed limits and their limited enforcement, or because of some quality of the drivers?
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
  From my experience, it’s mostly that all cars drive at about the same speed. In Germany, you typically have to change lanes constantly because the right lane is mostly trucks going 80kph while on the left lane you have people coming at you with 200kph and their lights flashing.
pkulak 7y ago
Yeah, I'm a pure right-laner myself in the states, and this sounds like my version of hell.
mattferderer 7y ago
I'm curious where in the US. I find it varies greatly depending on location. The Autobahn did a bit as well. The bigger the nearby city, the more traffic, the bigger pain is my global finding.
- bunderbunder 7y ago
  Though, driving culture matters a fair bit, too. For example, I find Chicago to be much more pleasant to drive in than Milwaukee. Chicago's driving culture is relatively aggressive, yes, but there are conventions that people follow, so traffic is generally predictable. Once you get to know the rules, it's fairly easy to navigate given the traffic density. Whereas, in Milwaukee, the only convention I could discern during the several years I lived there is that the person who's trying to merge onto the highway going 20mph below the speed limit is also the person who'll fly past you at 20mph above the speed limit a minute or two later.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Once you get to know the rules Only one rule matters in Chicago: potholes have the right of way.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Your post seems odd. The autobahn is generally regarded as some of the best highway experience there is when it comes to other road users. As someone who spends too much time going slower than the rest of traffic in grossly overloaded light trucks I think I have some authority when I say that being a road obstruction to the point where people pull dick moves to pass you is a great way to turn everyone else into an asshole make driving stressful. As long as you're not trying to go a ton slower than everyone else in your lane (forcing them to rapidly merge left or slow down, wait for a gap and move left cutting someone off) driving in your lane shouldn't be too stressful.
- joezydeco 7y ago
  I'm an American that has driven in Germany over the past 20 years and I can sympathize with my German friend up top. It's changed, and I'm sure if OP was less polite he'd mention the influx of beat-to-shit vehicles from the east that can now drive through western Europe and don't follow the rules as well. And the trucks from Poland. So, so many trucks from Poland.
  - Moru 7y ago
    Yes, have noticed this too. Love when trucks try to pass each others, one going 80 kmh and the other 81. Blocking two lanes completely for 10 minutes.
    - teh_klev 7y ago
      In the UK we call that "elephant racing". Deeply annoying.
      - FabHK 7y ago
        "Elefantenrennen" in Germany.
    - scotty79 7y ago
      In Poland our equivalent of autobahns have mostly just 2 lanes so that's fun. You may use that time of forced slowdown to adjust heating/cooling or find something good on the radio.
arendtio 7y ago
To some extent, you can adapt your driving style to avoid getting stressed. It doesn't work in every situation but when I want to avoid stress on an autobahn with 3 lanes I try to establish a common speed (e.g. ~120kph) for the middle lane by following someone who drives with a very constant speed. That way we can pass the trucks (right lane) and the racers on the left lane can do whatever they are up to. Sure, when there are no trucks around, I switch to the right lane too. In my experience, this doesn't make you a whole lot slower (comparing end-to-end travel time), but the stress and gas consumption is quite a bit lower (compared to driving mostly on the highspeed left lane).
maxxxxx 7y ago
I am German and I have no problems with the Autobahn but it always takes me a while to get used to the speed when I am back. I can easily see how it's frightening for people.
inferiorhuman 7y ago
I absolutely hate driving on the Autobahn in Germany. The pure stress and the amount of assholes you encounter is absolutely astonishing. I was surprised by the poor behavior I saw on the Autobahn outside of Frankfurt a few months ago. The Polish trucks were especially bad. I have driven cars before in other countries, including the “chaotic” Italy and the US, and it was always a more pleasant experience. And then I got back home and realized just how undisciplined and generally awful Bay Area drivers are.
- badpun 7y ago
  Re: Polish truck drivers being bad - keep in mind that Poland has the largest trucking industry in EU, so you just see a lot of Polish trucks and naturally some of them will drive badly.
geggam 7y ago
I question anyone's sanity who thinks Italy is a better driving experience than the German Autobahn.
- borumpilot 7y ago
  People who drive on intuition will feel this way. In my experience, typically drivers who are not trained well / lack experience with the culture & finesse that fast & safe driving requires. I have done Amsterdam to Bern (Holland > Germany > Switzerland) and back once every weekend for 5 years: the difference in driving culture is extreme. When the Germans will: 1: Check left mirror for coming traffic 2: Stay on their lane for 5 seconds 3: Check left mirror AGAIN to see if that far away car suddenly is dangerously close The Swiss and Dutch will check once, if the car in the mirror looks "tiny" just yank over the the next lane. Not strange, since both these nations allow for a maximum speed of 120kmh. Everyone is going the same slow. I dreaded the 1 hour in these two countries more then the 5 hours spend in the Autobahn.
  - thirdsun 7y ago
    As a german I'd even add the shoulder check before changing lanes. There situations where the mirror alone isn't enough.
- lazyjones 7y ago
  Northern Italy (Milano, Genova etc.) is perfectly fine, Toscana and further south is hell...
  - geggam 7y ago
    My only Italy experience was Rome and the surrounding area. That remains the only place in the EU I refuse to drive.
ktpsns 7y ago
As a German driving a lot on the Autobahn and spending a lot of time in long distance trains (ICE), I can of course absolutely second that. However, Germany is not Germany, it depends very much on the region. For instance, on the large 4-lane sections around Frankfurt, people drive aggressive and fast like mad. On the 3-lane sections in NRW, people have to drive annoyingly slowly because the Autobahn is a single roadworks. Then there are so many 2-lane Autobahnen in more rural areas which are also annoying because the average speed is low but there are aggressive people who think the left lane could bring them an advantage.
KozmoNau7 7y ago
I'm Danish, but my girlfriend is German and we rent a car every time we visit her family down there, in Baden-Württemberg. The area around Stuttgart is absolutely awash with big Mercedes and Porsches, for obvious reasons. (As an aside, if you're ever in the area, go visit Auto & Technik Museum Sinsheim, and prepare to spend a whole day there gawking at awesome old machinery and airplanes) At first, I found driving there a little bit intimidating. I'm used to Danish roads, where we drive 80km/h rather than 100km/h on most roads, and the speed limits are rather strictly enforced at 110/130km/h on motorways. I'm also used to Danish drivers, who generally accelerate and brake more gently, and generally drive slower cars (due to higher prices/taxes). In comparison, Germans are more forceful drivers. I wouldn't say "aggressive", because they're much better at stopping for pedestrians at crossings, and yielding the right of way. But they accelerate and brake harder, drive faster in corners and have much more faith in the quality of their roads, and the skills of other drivers. Once I got used to that difference in behavior, I found it much easier to grok German traffic and fit in. That said, a BMW X5M passing you at 250+km/h while you're chilling at 160km/h in a rental Opel Corsa is always a little unnerving.
ioulian 7y ago
I'm from Belgium, and every time time I can I go to Germany to drive on the Autobahn. If you say there are a lot of assholes in Germany, try and drive in Belgium, nobody can drive here and everybody drives on the left and doesn't have a general idea of driver around you. For example: When I drive in Germany on the left lane, and there are 2 lanes blocked by trucks, and another car wants to pass them on the left lane, they will see me and wait (or even break). They know I can't break that fast and will create an accident. In Belgium, you can drive on the left lane, and somebody merges into the left lane 10 m before you and keep going 90kmh on the left lane creating a traffic jam and unnecessary breaking. This is what I like about german drivers, they see their environment and know their (and other drivers) location in the traffic. Also, move to the right rule, it looks like 90% of the people follow it perfectly, in Belgium everybody drives on the second lane. Spain is the second best country I've driven in. Croatia is also fine.
- jillesvangurp 7y ago
  I can vouch for the ahole thing. The German autobahn brings out the worst in people. Road rage is a thing and you'll see plenty of of people putting themselves and others at risk by basically doing all the things this article points out you shouldn't be doing like passing on the right, driving close behind your bumper (while flashing lights), etc. Idiots are of course a thing in any country but the increased speeds just makes things a lot more noticeable. While most German drivers are very disciplined, not all of them are and there are plenty of irresponsible people treating the autobahn as their personal racing circuit. Also, not all drivers are actually German or necessarily that experienced driving very fast. The combination of idiots and fast cars is kind of predictably bad. Accidents at high speeds tend to be fatal. Despite this, it's not as dangerous as you might think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r.... Germany is doing better than e.g. the US or my home country (Netherlands). The reason is very simply that people on the autobahn tend to pay attention to what's happening. Situational awareness is not optional and paying attention becomes second nature quickly. If you've ever been overtaken by someone in a Porsche flooring the pedal, you'll think twice before moving in the left lane or outstaying your welcome there. Even though I'm Dutch, most of my driving experience is in France, Spain and Portugal. I've never actually owned a car and typically only drive on vacation (rentals). For me, Spain is by far the most relaxed country to drive around in Europe. Roads are good, people seem to mostly behave these days (they've gotten more strict over the past 20 years), and there are lots of interesting places to drive to and beautiful scenery to enjoy. I've driven tens out thousands of km in that country over the years. By comparison, the German autobahns are not in great shape. Like in the US federal funding for maintenance is not great. They're in a state of perpetual maintenance and you can't drive very far without encountering extensive road works. Being overtaken by traffic going twice your speed when you are basically flooring the pedal on your cheap rental is like crossing a highway on foot: very stressful. If you are renting a car in Germany, get an upgrade to something half decent. I once drove a rental Fiat panda that struggled to do 120 km/h on the autobahn and I don't recommend that. It's possible but you are basically going to be hugging the right lane and getting stuck behind slow trucks waiting for gaps in much faster traffic allowing you to overtake them. Merging left without the ability to accelerate quickly is stressful.
Krasnol 7y ago
Disclaimer: been living in Germany for a few decades No, absolutely no. I've been all over Europe for my job and vacation throughout my life and there is no country with more order than Germany. I have no idea how you get the idea about Italy. Besides France it is the worst driving experience in western Europe. People there are even proud of it. Eastern Europe is a topic for itself. Seriously, there are assholes on the road everywhere but there is an overall flow of order in Germany you won't find anywhere.

Scoundreller 7y ago

Was the US pleasant because of the lower speed limits and their limited enforcement, or because of some quality of the drivers?

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
From my experience, it’s mostly that all cars drive at about the same speed. In Germany, you typically have to change lanes constantly because the right lane is mostly trucks going 80kph while on the left lane you have people coming at you with 200kph and their lights flashing.

pkulak 7y ago

Yeah, I'm a pure right-laner myself in the states, and this sounds like my version of hell.

mattferderer 7y ago

I'm curious where in the US. I find it varies greatly depending on location. The Autobahn did a bit as well. The bigger the nearby city, the more traffic, the bigger pain is my global finding.

bunderbunder 7y ago
Though, driving culture matters a fair bit, too. For example, I find Chicago to be much more pleasant to drive in than Milwaukee. Chicago's driving culture is relatively aggressive, yes, but there are conventions that people follow, so traffic is generally predictable. Once you get to know the rules, it's fairly easy to navigate given the traffic density. Whereas, in Milwaukee, the only convention I could discern during the several years I lived there is that the person who's trying to merge onto the highway going 20mph below the speed limit is also the person who'll fly past you at 20mph above the speed limit a minute or two later.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Once you get to know the rules Only one rule matters in Chicago: potholes have the right of way.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Your post seems odd. The autobahn is generally regarded as some of the best highway experience there is when it comes to other road users. As someone who spends too much time going slower than the rest of traffic in grossly overloaded light trucks I think I have some authority when I say that being a road obstruction to the point where people pull dick moves to pass you is a great way to turn everyone else into an asshole make driving stressful. As long as you're not trying to go a ton slower than everyone else in your lane (forcing them to rapidly merge left or slow down, wait for a gap and move left cutting someone off) driving in your lane shouldn't be too stressful.

joezydeco 7y ago
I'm an American that has driven in Germany over the past 20 years and I can sympathize with my German friend up top. It's changed, and I'm sure if OP was less polite he'd mention the influx of beat-to-shit vehicles from the east that can now drive through western Europe and don't follow the rules as well. And the trucks from Poland. So, so many trucks from Poland.
- Moru 7y ago
  Yes, have noticed this too. Love when trucks try to pass each others, one going 80 kmh and the other 81. Blocking two lanes completely for 10 minutes.
  - teh_klev 7y ago
    In the UK we call that "elephant racing". Deeply annoying.
    - FabHK 7y ago
      "Elefantenrennen" in Germany.
  - scotty79 7y ago
    In Poland our equivalent of autobahns have mostly just 2 lanes so that's fun. You may use that time of forced slowdown to adjust heating/cooling or find something good on the radio.

arendtio 7y ago

To some extent, you can adapt your driving style to avoid getting stressed. It doesn't work in every situation but when I want to avoid stress on an autobahn with 3 lanes I try to establish a common speed (e.g. ~120kph) for the middle lane by following someone who drives with a very constant speed. That way we can pass the trucks (right lane) and the racers on the left lane can do whatever they are up to. Sure, when there are no trucks around, I switch to the right lane too. In my experience, this doesn't make you a whole lot slower (comparing end-to-end travel time), but the stress and gas consumption is quite a bit lower (compared to driving mostly on the highspeed left lane).

maxxxxx 7y ago

I am German and I have no problems with the Autobahn but it always takes me a while to get used to the speed when I am back. I can easily see how it's frightening for people.

inferiorhuman 7y ago

I absolutely hate driving on the Autobahn in Germany. The pure stress and the amount of assholes you encounter is absolutely astonishing. I was surprised by the poor behavior I saw on the Autobahn outside of Frankfurt a few months ago. The Polish trucks were especially bad. I have driven cars before in other countries, including the “chaotic” Italy and the US, and it was always a more pleasant experience. And then I got back home and realized just how undisciplined and generally awful Bay Area drivers are.

badpun 7y ago
Re: Polish truck drivers being bad - keep in mind that Poland has the largest trucking industry in EU, so you just see a lot of Polish trucks and naturally some of them will drive badly.

geggam 7y ago

I question anyone's sanity who thinks Italy is a better driving experience than the German Autobahn.

borumpilot 7y ago
People who drive on intuition will feel this way. In my experience, typically drivers who are not trained well / lack experience with the culture & finesse that fast & safe driving requires. I have done Amsterdam to Bern (Holland > Germany > Switzerland) and back once every weekend for 5 years: the difference in driving culture is extreme. When the Germans will: 1: Check left mirror for coming traffic 2: Stay on their lane for 5 seconds 3: Check left mirror AGAIN to see if that far away car suddenly is dangerously close The Swiss and Dutch will check once, if the car in the mirror looks "tiny" just yank over the the next lane. Not strange, since both these nations allow for a maximum speed of 120kmh. Everyone is going the same slow. I dreaded the 1 hour in these two countries more then the 5 hours spend in the Autobahn.
- thirdsun 7y ago
  As a german I'd even add the shoulder check before changing lanes. There situations where the mirror alone isn't enough.
lazyjones 7y ago
Northern Italy (Milano, Genova etc.) is perfectly fine, Toscana and further south is hell...
- geggam 7y ago
  My only Italy experience was Rome and the surrounding area. That remains the only place in the EU I refuse to drive.

ktpsns 7y ago

As a German driving a lot on the Autobahn and spending a lot of time in long distance trains (ICE), I can of course absolutely second that. However, Germany is not Germany, it depends very much on the region. For instance, on the large 4-lane sections around Frankfurt, people drive aggressive and fast like mad. On the 3-lane sections in NRW, people have to drive annoyingly slowly because the Autobahn is a single roadworks. Then there are so many 2-lane Autobahnen in more rural areas which are also annoying because the average speed is low but there are aggressive people who think the left lane could bring them an advantage.

KozmoNau7 7y ago

I'm Danish, but my girlfriend is German and we rent a car every time we visit her family down there, in Baden-Württemberg. The area around Stuttgart is absolutely awash with big Mercedes and Porsches, for obvious reasons. (As an aside, if you're ever in the area, go visit Auto & Technik Museum Sinsheim, and prepare to spend a whole day there gawking at awesome old machinery and airplanes) At first, I found driving there a little bit intimidating. I'm used to Danish roads, where we drive 80km/h rather than 100km/h on most roads, and the speed limits are rather strictly enforced at 110/130km/h on motorways. I'm also used to Danish drivers, who generally accelerate and brake more gently, and generally drive slower cars (due to higher prices/taxes). In comparison, Germans are more forceful drivers. I wouldn't say "aggressive", because they're much better at stopping for pedestrians at crossings, and yielding the right of way. But they accelerate and brake harder, drive faster in corners and have much more faith in the quality of their roads, and the skills of other drivers. Once I got used to that difference in behavior, I found it much easier to grok German traffic and fit in. That said, a BMW X5M passing you at 250+km/h while you're chilling at 160km/h in a rental Opel Corsa is always a little unnerving.

ioulian 7y ago

I'm from Belgium, and every time time I can I go to Germany to drive on the Autobahn. If you say there are a lot of assholes in Germany, try and drive in Belgium, nobody can drive here and everybody drives on the left and doesn't have a general idea of driver around you. For example: When I drive in Germany on the left lane, and there are 2 lanes blocked by trucks, and another car wants to pass them on the left lane, they will see me and wait (or even break). They know I can't break that fast and will create an accident. In Belgium, you can drive on the left lane, and somebody merges into the left lane 10 m before you and keep going 90kmh on the left lane creating a traffic jam and unnecessary breaking. This is what I like about german drivers, they see their environment and know their (and other drivers) location in the traffic. Also, move to the right rule, it looks like 90% of the people follow it perfectly, in Belgium everybody drives on the second lane. Spain is the second best country I've driven in. Croatia is also fine.

jillesvangurp 7y ago
I can vouch for the ahole thing. The German autobahn brings out the worst in people. Road rage is a thing and you'll see plenty of of people putting themselves and others at risk by basically doing all the things this article points out you shouldn't be doing like passing on the right, driving close behind your bumper (while flashing lights), etc. Idiots are of course a thing in any country but the increased speeds just makes things a lot more noticeable. While most German drivers are very disciplined, not all of them are and there are plenty of irresponsible people treating the autobahn as their personal racing circuit. Also, not all drivers are actually German or necessarily that experienced driving very fast. The combination of idiots and fast cars is kind of predictably bad. Accidents at high speeds tend to be fatal. Despite this, it's not as dangerous as you might think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r.... Germany is doing better than e.g. the US or my home country (Netherlands). The reason is very simply that people on the autobahn tend to pay attention to what's happening. Situational awareness is not optional and paying attention becomes second nature quickly. If you've ever been overtaken by someone in a Porsche flooring the pedal, you'll think twice before moving in the left lane or outstaying your welcome there. Even though I'm Dutch, most of my driving experience is in France, Spain and Portugal. I've never actually owned a car and typically only drive on vacation (rentals). For me, Spain is by far the most relaxed country to drive around in Europe. Roads are good, people seem to mostly behave these days (they've gotten more strict over the past 20 years), and there are lots of interesting places to drive to and beautiful scenery to enjoy. I've driven tens out thousands of km in that country over the years. By comparison, the German autobahns are not in great shape. Like in the US federal funding for maintenance is not great. They're in a state of perpetual maintenance and you can't drive very far without encountering extensive road works. Being overtaken by traffic going twice your speed when you are basically flooring the pedal on your cheap rental is like crossing a highway on foot: very stressful. If you are renting a car in Germany, get an upgrade to something half decent. I once drove a rental Fiat panda that struggled to do 120 km/h on the autobahn and I don't recommend that. It's possible but you are basically going to be hugging the right lane and getting stuck behind slow trucks waiting for gaps in much faster traffic allowing you to overtake them. Merging left without the ability to accelerate quickly is stressful.

Krasnol 7y ago

Disclaimer: been living in Germany for a few decades No, absolutely no. I've been all over Europe for my job and vacation throughout my life and there is no country with more order than Germany. I have no idea how you get the idea about Italy. Besides France it is the worst driving experience in western Europe. People there are even proud of it. Eastern Europe is a topic for itself. Seriously, there are assholes on the road everywhere but there is an overall flow of order in Germany you won't find anywhere.