6 ms·

I was desperately scanning down through the article looking for what the cure was. Oh. It's just a diagnosis, it doesn't come with a cure yet. Oh well - mayb

I was desperately scanning down through the article looking for what the cure was. Oh. It's just a diagnosis, it doesn't come with a cure yet. Oh well - maybe if I can get our sprint velocity even higher this year, I can get a bonus and go on a vacation to /really/ recover!

nostrademons 7y ago
I've heard of a couple, and used them successfully: 1) Learn something. 2) Get a small win after a big loss. The ideal project to do when you're feeling burnt out is something that is well inside your comfort zone and can be completed in a couple days, but also teaches you something new. Something like learning a new framework, or building a quick new "toy" that isn't really critical to the business but users would find interesting, or doing a refactoring that you totally know how to do but have been putting off for months because other stuff is more important. I've also had managers put me on projects like this after slaving away for months on a project that gets canceled. In hindsight they knew exactly what they were doing, and the fact that it was kinda fun and not critical to the business was actually a long-term investment.
- sosuke 7y ago
  Small wins can go a long way.
  - turk73 7y ago
    This would explain all my home projects that I do just to stay sane.
- taneq 7y ago
  This reminds me of the "make your bed" advice: https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/make-your-bed-by-admiral-william-h-mcraven https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/make-your-bed-by-admir...
  - amelius 7y ago
    Making your bed is bad advice: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4181629.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4181629.stm
    - TomK32 7y ago
      So really it'd be best to hang up the moist blanket and have a well-ventilated room.
    - taneq 7y ago
      "Brush your teeth" would probably serve a similar purpose, "tidy your room" would be even better if you're the sort of person who wouldn't have it already tidied.
    - EForEndeavour 7y ago
      Not sure if you're jokingly referencing that simulation-based 2005 study, but it's a far cry to extrapolate it to mean that you actually shouldn't make your bed. For example, see https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2017/making-your-bed-dust-mites-fd.html https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2017/making-...
- stepbeek 7y ago
  This might be the most helpful comment I've ever read on Hacker News. Thank you. :+1:
  - avian 7y ago
    YMMV. Sometimes a solution to too much work isn't taking on more work (even if it isn't "business critical").
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- stjohnswarts 7y ago
  I did a project like this recently. Had been using a particularly piece of crap java software for 3 months, got tired of it, and rewrote a much improved version in ruby that using KISS. It does 90% of what the other framework does and is about 10% the size. I haven't needed the 10% I left out at all and other people are adopting it. It definitely falls under your "take a small project, and get some success at the end of the tunnel and learn some new stuff"
- copperx 7y ago
  I'm sure #1 can be generalized to play. Do something fun with your own time. The activity can be creative or not.
Swizec 7y ago
You need stress to grow. Burnout happens when stress isn't followed by rest. When stress feels endless. And when stress feels like it's pointless. The solution therefore is to make sure you always know why you're working so hard, build in reward for your hard work, and take a break after a specific period of stress. Always have the end in sight. Always know your goal. Always make sure you feel progress toward the goal. Crucially, when the specified period of stress comes, take a fucking break. Whether you're done or not. Very important. I myself often fail to follow these lessons. So I write them here to help me remember :) PS: for a more in-depth exploration of these 3 rules, read Peak Performance. It helped me a lot.
- rubicon33 7y ago
  The whole "stress causes burnout" thing is gravely misguided. There's a whole sub-type of burnout which comes about even in relatively low stress environments.
  - Swizec 7y ago
    Perhaps we define stress differently. How can burnout happen if you love every little second of your day and everything you do fills you with joy and energy?
    - King-Aaron 7y ago
      You can hate what you do, yet still not be stressed.
      - hvidgaard 7y ago
        If do continue to do something you hate, you're inducing a stress response in the body every time.
        King-Aaron 7y ago
        Honest question however, is that truly accurate? I'd be interested to know if that's actually the case.
rusk 7y ago
> it doesn't come with a cure yet The cure is rest. Since it was identified by Freudenberger and elaborated by Maslach this has been the accepted treatment. Of course, this isn't much use to you if you can't rest due to your external commitments, but sometimes even just identifying that you have a problem can help.
- FooHentai 7y ago
  Important to recognize that it's an accepted treatment. If we discover and confirm more treatments in future, which I think is likely, they'll sit right alongside rest and perhaps be equally or even more effective than rest. Bonus being they may be compatible with continuation of work. Not that I'm a zealot for work-till-u-die, but it can really help as far as the continuation of non-work life activities is concerned to have some incoming rolling in. Some folks have pretty good in-band home remedies, or at least growth inhibitors, for burnout. Bringing them to bear isn't done by everyone, or may not even be universally applicable, but I'm not sure rest will bear out to be the only cure for this ailment in the long run.
  - rusk 7y ago
    Well what we're talking about is nervous exhaustion. Beyond the point of prevention I find it hard to imagine any other cure that wouldn't make it worse in the long run.
- amelius 7y ago
  I agree with this. If you still have to work, then consider to sleep 10+ hours a day.
coolaliasbro 7y ago
Pretty sure the cure is moving away from the capitalist mode of production.
- pragmatic 7y ago
  No burnout when you are dead? What is a good alternative to capitalist production that doesn't involve slave labor and or millions of deaths?

nostrademons 7y ago

I've heard of a couple, and used them successfully: 1) Learn something. 2) Get a small win after a big loss. The ideal project to do when you're feeling burnt out is something that is well inside your comfort zone and can be completed in a couple days, but also teaches you something new. Something like learning a new framework, or building a quick new "toy" that isn't really critical to the business but users would find interesting, or doing a refactoring that you totally know how to do but have been putting off for months because other stuff is more important. I've also had managers put me on projects like this after slaving away for months on a project that gets canceled. In hindsight they knew exactly what they were doing, and the fact that it was kinda fun and not critical to the business was actually a long-term investment.

sosuke 7y ago
Small wins can go a long way.
- turk73 7y ago
  This would explain all my home projects that I do just to stay sane.
taneq 7y ago
This reminds me of the "make your bed" advice: https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/make-your-bed-by-admiral-william-h-mcraven https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/make-your-bed-by-admir...
- amelius 7y ago
  Making your bed is bad advice: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4181629.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4181629.stm
  - TomK32 7y ago
    So really it'd be best to hang up the moist blanket and have a well-ventilated room.
  - taneq 7y ago
    "Brush your teeth" would probably serve a similar purpose, "tidy your room" would be even better if you're the sort of person who wouldn't have it already tidied.
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    Not sure if you're jokingly referencing that simulation-based 2005 study, but it's a far cry to extrapolate it to mean that you actually shouldn't make your bed. For example, see https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2017/making-your-bed-dust-mites-fd.html https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2017/making-...
stepbeek 7y ago
This might be the most helpful comment I've ever read on Hacker News. Thank you. :+1:
- avian 7y ago
  YMMV. Sometimes a solution to too much work isn't taking on more work (even if it isn't "business critical").
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 7y ago
I did a project like this recently. Had been using a particularly piece of crap java software for 3 months, got tired of it, and rewrote a much improved version in ruby that using KISS. It does 90% of what the other framework does and is about 10% the size. I haven't needed the 10% I left out at all and other people are adopting it. It definitely falls under your "take a small project, and get some success at the end of the tunnel and learn some new stuff"
copperx 7y ago
I'm sure #1 can be generalized to play. Do something fun with your own time. The activity can be creative or not.

Swizec 7y ago

You need stress to grow. Burnout happens when stress isn't followed by rest. When stress feels endless. And when stress feels like it's pointless. The solution therefore is to make sure you always know why you're working so hard, build in reward for your hard work, and take a break after a specific period of stress. Always have the end in sight. Always know your goal. Always make sure you feel progress toward the goal. Crucially, when the specified period of stress comes, take a fucking break. Whether you're done or not. Very important. I myself often fail to follow these lessons. So I write them here to help me remember :) PS: for a more in-depth exploration of these 3 rules, read Peak Performance. It helped me a lot.

rubicon33 7y ago
The whole "stress causes burnout" thing is gravely misguided. There's a whole sub-type of burnout which comes about even in relatively low stress environments.
- Swizec 7y ago
  Perhaps we define stress differently. How can burnout happen if you love every little second of your day and everything you do fills you with joy and energy?
  - King-Aaron 7y ago
    You can hate what you do, yet still not be stressed.
    - hvidgaard 7y ago
      If do continue to do something you hate, you're inducing a stress response in the body every time.
      - King-Aaron 7y ago
        Honest question however, is that truly accurate? I'd be interested to know if that's actually the case.

rusk 7y ago

> it doesn't come with a cure yet The cure is rest. Since it was identified by Freudenberger and elaborated by Maslach this has been the accepted treatment. Of course, this isn't much use to you if you can't rest due to your external commitments, but sometimes even just identifying that you have a problem can help.

FooHentai 7y ago
Important to recognize that it's an accepted treatment. If we discover and confirm more treatments in future, which I think is likely, they'll sit right alongside rest and perhaps be equally or even more effective than rest. Bonus being they may be compatible with continuation of work. Not that I'm a zealot for work-till-u-die, but it can really help as far as the continuation of non-work life activities is concerned to have some incoming rolling in. Some folks have pretty good in-band home remedies, or at least growth inhibitors, for burnout. Bringing them to bear isn't done by everyone, or may not even be universally applicable, but I'm not sure rest will bear out to be the only cure for this ailment in the long run.
- rusk 7y ago
  Well what we're talking about is nervous exhaustion. Beyond the point of prevention I find it hard to imagine any other cure that wouldn't make it worse in the long run.
amelius 7y ago
I agree with this. If you still have to work, then consider to sleep 10+ hours a day.

coolaliasbro 7y ago

Pretty sure the cure is moving away from the capitalist mode of production.

pragmatic 7y ago
No burnout when you are dead? What is a good alternative to capitalist production that doesn't involve slave labor and or millions of deaths?