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Can someone explained what happened recently to cause such aggressive action against Huawei with ARM , Google etc refusing to work with them. Is it related to a

by tech6 7y ago

Can someone explained what happened recently to cause such aggressive action against Huawei with ARM , Google etc refusing to work with them. Is it related to arrest of their executive recently ?

dagw 7y ago
It's part of the US/China trade war. Trump believed the existing tariff situation with China was unfair and wanted to negotiate a new trade deal. When negotiations failed he started to implement a bunch of tariffs and trade restrictions on chines goods and companies to try to force their hand. This is just a part of that 'negotiation' strategy. Google, Arm etc. don't want to stop doing business with Huawei (since doing so no doubt costs them a lot of money), they're being banned from doing business with Huawei by the US government.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  But why is everyone silently accepting that? Also google, are they so bowed down to the government, that they just accept this, or do they know more reasons to declare Huawei a enemy?
  - disgruntledphd2 7y ago
    They have no choice except to comply. I worked for a non-Google tech company and there is literally code which prevents users in any sanctioned countries from being able to use the services. Unless Sundar Pichai would like to go to jail, there's very little that they can do about this.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      I believe there is something called the legal system? Which companies or people can use to challenge government decisions, if they don't like them. And they can at least openly express their concerns. But I do not see that hapoening, so something (or quite a lot) is going on behind the scene.
      - joatmon-snoo 7y ago
        The judicial system is for challenging the interpretation of the law. Changing the law is a different process.
        hutzlibu 7y ago
        Yes. But banning Huawei is a interpretation, right?
        gruez 7y ago
        No, it's an executive order.
  - DeonPenny 7y ago
    Cause china is an authoritian government that hasn't been too nice to america business in recent years. Why would anyone stand up for them now that the illusion of market openness goes away? Google not even allowed in china so why fight on china behave very hard.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      Who is talking about standing up for china? I rather talk standing up for free market. In a free market system the government can't just order companys to stop doing buisness with someone unless very good reasons are provided. I don't see that with Huawei. And china is Authorian? Yeah, so is half the world. But it would be news to me, that only "democracies" are acceptable trade partners.
  - noselasd 7y ago
    > Also google, are they so bowed down to the government, What choice do they have ? Comply with law or be heavily fined, shut down, executives jailed for compromising nation security.
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      The same choice company allways have when acing government Intervention: they can fight in court. I believe thats why they have lawyers.
      - addicted 7y ago
        They will fight in court and lose. What the US govt is doing is completely legal, no matter where you stand on the morality or sensibleness of these actions.
        hutzlibu 7y ago
        "What the US govt is doing is completely legal" All based on a presidential order, without providing evidence. Congratulations to US legal system then and feeling superior to authorian china.
        JohnFen 7y ago
        > What the US govt is doing is completely legal Maybe. Trump is doing all this under the authority of national security. That is not a blank check, though, and there is an oversight mechanism that can be employed to determine if the authority is being used appropriately or not. Unfortunately, that oversight mechanism lies with Congress, and given that the majority party currently in the Senate is taking the stance of "anything Trump does is right", we can't reasonably expect that the mechanism will actually be used in the next couple of years, at least.
- dis-sys 7y ago
  > This is just a part of that 'negotiation' strategy. Your explanation doesn't answer the question why Huawei got picked. Huawei products got banned in the US way before the trade war, Huawei's exports to US is pretty small I'd say. It thus has really nothing to do with the existing tariff situation whatsoever. On the other hand, there are many big Chinese companies exporting to the US in huge sheer volume, Lenovo is probably the best example here, interestingly, Lenovo never got treated in the same way. Why there is such huge difference? The answer is plain and simple - Huawei managed to lead the 5G development and growing faster than anyone else. US refuses to accept that. Lenovo's business model is what US wants all Chinese companies to follow - focusing on low end craps, make money by working hard not working smart. Same goes to those crappy Chinese companies like Xiaomim OPPO, OnePlus.
  - gruez 7y ago
    >The answer is plain and simple - Huawei managed to lead the 5G development and growing faster than anyone else Or you know, they were stealing trade secrets.
- mervchan 7y ago
  China has disallowed their citizens from using Google, Netflix, Instagram, but everyone's up in arms over Trump stopping the US from doing business with Huawei. I really don't understand this. https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/the-complete-list-of-blocked-websites-in-china-how-to-access-them/ https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/the-complete-list-of-blocked-...
  - Jyaif 7y ago
    China is not competitive in tech right now, so it needs to block foreign companies in order to have local companies have a chance of emerging, and one day becoming competitive. On the other hand, the US is super competitive. They must do as much business with China as possible in order to discourage any new company from spawning over there, because it would create competition. In other words, Trump is doing exactly the opposite of what is good for the US.
  - majia 7y ago
    China only bans foreign companies in its domestic markets. Trump is dictating whom third parties can do business with. For example, European firms have to cut normal business ties with huawei, otherwise they will be sanctioned by the US. And the US isn't paying for the cost of breaking their contract with Huawei.
- senorjazz 7y ago
  Incompetent and failing administration flailing around in an increasingly desperate way
tiziano88 7y ago
https://zeihan.com/my-way-or-the-huawei/ https://zeihan.com/my-way-or-the-huawei/
- rb808 7y ago
  Nice post, I dont really like Zeihan's cold war mentality, but in this case its probably best explanation I've read recently.
StringyBob 7y ago
It's not the companies choosing - it's the law. An executive order by Trump. Issued on May 15th with immediate effect. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-securing-information-communications-technology-services-supply-chain/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637836/trump-huawei-ban-explanation-trade-deal-national-security-risk https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637836/trump-huawei-ban... Here's a good video explainer from that verge article: https://youtu.be/DZbSHXSxch0 https://youtu.be/DZbSHXSxch0

by tech6 7y ago

Can someone explained what happened recently to cause such aggressive action against Huawei with ARM , Google etc refusing to work with them. Is it related to arrest of their executive recently ?

dagw 7y ago

It's part of the US/China trade war. Trump believed the existing tariff situation with China was unfair and wanted to negotiate a new trade deal. When negotiations failed he started to implement a bunch of tariffs and trade restrictions on chines goods and companies to try to force their hand. This is just a part of that 'negotiation' strategy. Google, Arm etc. don't want to stop doing business with Huawei (since doing so no doubt costs them a lot of money), they're being banned from doing business with Huawei by the US government.

hutzlibu 7y ago
But why is everyone silently accepting that? Also google, are they so bowed down to the government, that they just accept this, or do they know more reasons to declare Huawei a enemy?
- disgruntledphd2 7y ago
  They have no choice except to comply. I worked for a non-Google tech company and there is literally code which prevents users in any sanctioned countries from being able to use the services. Unless Sundar Pichai would like to go to jail, there's very little that they can do about this.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    I believe there is something called the legal system? Which companies or people can use to challenge government decisions, if they don't like them. And they can at least openly express their concerns. But I do not see that hapoening, so something (or quite a lot) is going on behind the scene.
    - joatmon-snoo 7y ago
      The judicial system is for challenging the interpretation of the law. Changing the law is a different process.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago
        Yes. But banning Huawei is a interpretation, right?
        gruez 7y ago
        No, it's an executive order.
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  Cause china is an authoritian government that hasn't been too nice to america business in recent years. Why would anyone stand up for them now that the illusion of market openness goes away? Google not even allowed in china so why fight on china behave very hard.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    Who is talking about standing up for china? I rather talk standing up for free market. In a free market system the government can't just order companys to stop doing buisness with someone unless very good reasons are provided. I don't see that with Huawei. And china is Authorian? Yeah, so is half the world. But it would be news to me, that only "democracies" are acceptable trade partners.
- noselasd 7y ago
  > Also google, are they so bowed down to the government, What choice do they have ? Comply with law or be heavily fined, shut down, executives jailed for compromising nation security.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    The same choice company allways have when acing government Intervention: they can fight in court. I believe thats why they have lawyers.
    - addicted 7y ago
      They will fight in court and lose. What the US govt is doing is completely legal, no matter where you stand on the morality or sensibleness of these actions.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago
        "What the US govt is doing is completely legal" All based on a presidential order, without providing evidence. Congratulations to US legal system then and feeling superior to authorian china.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        > What the US govt is doing is completely legal Maybe. Trump is doing all this under the authority of national security. That is not a blank check, though, and there is an oversight mechanism that can be employed to determine if the authority is being used appropriately or not. Unfortunately, that oversight mechanism lies with Congress, and given that the majority party currently in the Senate is taking the stance of "anything Trump does is right", we can't reasonably expect that the mechanism will actually be used in the next couple of years, at least.
dis-sys 7y ago
> This is just a part of that 'negotiation' strategy. Your explanation doesn't answer the question why Huawei got picked. Huawei products got banned in the US way before the trade war, Huawei's exports to US is pretty small I'd say. It thus has really nothing to do with the existing tariff situation whatsoever. On the other hand, there are many big Chinese companies exporting to the US in huge sheer volume, Lenovo is probably the best example here, interestingly, Lenovo never got treated in the same way. Why there is such huge difference? The answer is plain and simple - Huawei managed to lead the 5G development and growing faster than anyone else. US refuses to accept that. Lenovo's business model is what US wants all Chinese companies to follow - focusing on low end craps, make money by working hard not working smart. Same goes to those crappy Chinese companies like Xiaomim OPPO, OnePlus.
- gruez 7y ago
  >The answer is plain and simple - Huawei managed to lead the 5G development and growing faster than anyone else Or you know, they were stealing trade secrets.
mervchan 7y ago
China has disallowed their citizens from using Google, Netflix, Instagram, but everyone's up in arms over Trump stopping the US from doing business with Huawei. I really don't understand this. https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/the-complete-list-of-blocked-websites-in-china-how-to-access-them/ https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/the-complete-list-of-blocked-...
- Jyaif 7y ago
  China is not competitive in tech right now, so it needs to block foreign companies in order to have local companies have a chance of emerging, and one day becoming competitive. On the other hand, the US is super competitive. They must do as much business with China as possible in order to discourage any new company from spawning over there, because it would create competition. In other words, Trump is doing exactly the opposite of what is good for the US.
- majia 7y ago
  China only bans foreign companies in its domestic markets. Trump is dictating whom third parties can do business with. For example, European firms have to cut normal business ties with huawei, otherwise they will be sanctioned by the US. And the US isn't paying for the cost of breaking their contract with Huawei.
senorjazz 7y ago
Incompetent and failing administration flailing around in an increasingly desperate way

tiziano88 7y ago

https://zeihan.com/my-way-or-the-huawei/ https://zeihan.com/my-way-or-the-huawei/

rb808 7y ago
Nice post, I dont really like Zeihan's cold war mentality, but in this case its probably best explanation I've read recently.

StringyBob 7y ago

It's not the companies choosing - it's the law. An executive order by Trump. Issued on May 15th with immediate effect. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-securing-information-communications-technology-services-supply-chain/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637836/trump-huawei-ban-explanation-trade-deal-national-security-risk https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637836/trump-huawei-ban... Here's a good video explainer from that verge article: https://youtu.be/DZbSHXSxch0 https://youtu.be/DZbSHXSxch0