8 ms·

So basically I can't use techcrunch unless I consent to letting them use my data for advertising? Doesn't this violate GDPR?

Semaphor 7y ago
> Doesn't this violate GDPR? Like 99% of sites currently, yes.
forgotmyhnacc 7y ago
Some websites offer a different experience if you access them from an IP address from the EU. So playing Devils advocate, maybe they don't violate GDPR. Edit: curious why I was downvoted, did I say anything wrong or offensive?
- ryandrake 7y ago
  I thought geo-targeting with IPs wasn’t good enough because GDPR applies to European citizens/users, not just people who happen to be located in a European country.
  - dangrossman 7y ago
    GDPR applies to location, not citizenship. You do not need to ascertain or assume the citizenship of people on your website, only if they're located in the Union. If a German citizen is browsing a US website from a computer in Kentucky, EU law does not apply. See GDPR Article 3 (1), Article 3 (2), and Recital 14.
  - briandear 7y ago
    GDPR does not apply to “European Citizens.” It applies to people in the EU. > This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ Short answer: this applies to people in the EU, citizenship is irrelevant. The law is geographic, not based on passport.
    - Kalium 7y ago
      More specifically, it applies to companies with a legal presence in the EU dealing with people in the EU. Otherwise, someone might think that being in the EU grants them GDPR rights when dealing with a company in Argentina.
      - r3bl 7y ago
        It does grant them GDPR rights. If you offer service to people in the EU, you have to comply with the GDPR. If you don't, you don't have to. How and will that be enforced is a different discussion, but the regulation clearly protects people in the EU regardless of where the website owner is located.
        Kalium 7y ago
        An unenforceable right is a nonexistant right. GDPR is business regulations, phrased as human rights, and makes the most sense if understood as business regulations. I understand that some might choose to hold different opinions about any or all of this.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    GDPR only applies to geography because there's no possible way to know who a person is online unless they specifically login or tell you, and at that point you already have consent.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Well the thing about jurisdiction is that it is utterly toothless if they aren't in reach - hence the lack of arrest of Wikipedia editors for Tiananmen Square contributions. It is kind of embarrassing really. Even if "advertising to EU citizens" put them in reach it wouldn't give the outcome they want - that would likely turn into a full block if they see no benefit to it and compliance costs.
- swombat 7y ago
  TechCrunch have UK based staff, though... there should be a way to have an impact.
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  And this is why _we are forced_ (speaking for myself and a few more) to use PrivacyBadger (on which I keep adding domains), NoScript, AdblockPlus, ublock, and others. It is a democracy. The many will win if they want to. I understand the unethical part of 'consuming content for free' which costs them $. But there they picked to go to the extreme end of loading a simple piece of news with 10+ trackers. On TC I get 14 hits on my PrivacyBadger, 9 hits on NoScript, and 2 hits on ABP. If one day that '25 violations' go down to 2-3, I will consider letting them go with it.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    There is no "forced" here. For most news sites, you can just not read them, and it's fine, really.
idlewords 7y ago
You can visit from a European IP address and opt out.
- Nursie 7y ago
  Have you ever found the control to do that? I've looked, and followed links from TC to the parent site and back again. Can't find anything other than more links to more policies.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Their EU opt-out is pretty limited, you can't exclude the "Foundational partners" like Amazon, Google, Facebook and dozens of others.
sieabahlpark 7y ago
As I understand you have to Target EU citizens, having a box which states you exempt yourself is allowed. You just have to explain that it is their choice and if they choose to allow you they grant you permission. It just has to be an explicit agree.
- Nursie 7y ago
  IIRC you are explicitly not allowed to deny service if someone doesn't agree to tracking/targetting, so I'm not sure how that would fly.
  - ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
    I believe you are correct, though I have no idea how it came to be. If I can't profit off serving you content without you consenting to the targeting (so that the ads will pay out more money), I should not be legally required to provide you content at a loss. I'm sure it wouldn't fly in the U.S, though I'm not sure what protections businesses have in the EU.
    - craigsmansion 7y ago
      > I should not be legally required to provide you content at a loss You aren't. In fact, you're forbidden to provide this content in the EU.
    - MereInterest 7y ago
      If your business model does not work when behaving ethically, perhaps that is a problem with the business model, rather than a problem with the ethics.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        Ethics are irrelevant here. There's nothing unethical about ads. If you don't want to view ads in exchange for the content then you can pay for it or visit a different site.
manigandham 7y ago
No, and that part of the law is unenforceable anyway. You cant force companies to provide a service at cost to them.
- Isn0gud 7y ago
  But you can make certain ways how services are provided illegal. How is that not enforceable?
  - manigandham 7y ago
    What's illegal about it? It's their service. If they don't want to provide it then they don't have to, including ads if necessary to offset costs. Your choice is to not use it. You can't demand it in whatever way you want if it costs them to serve you.
    - matthewmacleod 7y ago
      That is just blatantly not true. Companies can be, and frequently are, legally required to offer services that they otherwise wouldn't.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        Name an example. You can't force a company to provide something at cost without any subsidy or provision in return.
        matthewmacleod 7y ago
        Who said “at cost”? Universal service obligations worldwide. Anti-discrimination laws. Mandatory customer warranties. Regulatory standards. The whole world is replete with examples where regulation places restrictions on goods and services, and the conditions under which they can be offered. It is absolutely feasible to disallow mandatory data collection for services. I am honestly struggling to see what problem you can possibly be seeing with this.

Semaphor 7y ago

> Doesn't this violate GDPR? Like 99% of sites currently, yes.

forgotmyhnacc 7y ago

Some websites offer a different experience if you access them from an IP address from the EU. So playing Devils advocate, maybe they don't violate GDPR. Edit: curious why I was downvoted, did I say anything wrong or offensive?

ryandrake 7y ago
I thought geo-targeting with IPs wasn’t good enough because GDPR applies to European citizens/users, not just people who happen to be located in a European country.
- dangrossman 7y ago
  GDPR applies to location, not citizenship. You do not need to ascertain or assume the citizenship of people on your website, only if they're located in the Union. If a German citizen is browsing a US website from a computer in Kentucky, EU law does not apply. See GDPR Article 3 (1), Article 3 (2), and Recital 14.
- briandear 7y ago
  GDPR does not apply to “European Citizens.” It applies to people in the EU. > This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ Short answer: this applies to people in the EU, citizenship is irrelevant. The law is geographic, not based on passport.
  - Kalium 7y ago
    More specifically, it applies to companies with a legal presence in the EU dealing with people in the EU. Otherwise, someone might think that being in the EU grants them GDPR rights when dealing with a company in Argentina.
    - r3bl 7y ago
      It does grant them GDPR rights. If you offer service to people in the EU, you have to comply with the GDPR. If you don't, you don't have to. How and will that be enforced is a different discussion, but the regulation clearly protects people in the EU regardless of where the website owner is located.
      - Kalium 7y ago
        An unenforceable right is a nonexistant right. GDPR is business regulations, phrased as human rights, and makes the most sense if understood as business regulations. I understand that some might choose to hold different opinions about any or all of this.
- manigandham 7y ago
  GDPR only applies to geography because there's no possible way to know who a person is online unless they specifically login or tell you, and at that point you already have consent.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Well the thing about jurisdiction is that it is utterly toothless if they aren't in reach - hence the lack of arrest of Wikipedia editors for Tiananmen Square contributions. It is kind of embarrassing really. Even if "advertising to EU citizens" put them in reach it wouldn't give the outcome they want - that would likely turn into a full block if they see no benefit to it and compliance costs.

swombat 7y ago
TechCrunch have UK based staff, though... there should be a way to have an impact.
HenryBemis 7y ago
And this is why _we are forced_ (speaking for myself and a few more) to use PrivacyBadger (on which I keep adding domains), NoScript, AdblockPlus, ublock, and others. It is a democracy. The many will win if they want to. I understand the unethical part of 'consuming content for free' which costs them $. But there they picked to go to the extreme end of loading a simple piece of news with 10+ trackers. On TC I get 14 hits on my PrivacyBadger, 9 hits on NoScript, and 2 hits on ABP. If one day that '25 violations' go down to 2-3, I will consider letting them go with it.
- skybrian 7y ago
  There is no "forced" here. For most news sites, you can just not read them, and it's fine, really.

idlewords 7y ago

You can visit from a European IP address and opt out.

Nursie 7y ago
Have you ever found the control to do that? I've looked, and followed links from TC to the parent site and back again. Can't find anything other than more links to more policies.
icebraining 7y ago
Their EU opt-out is pretty limited, you can't exclude the "Foundational partners" like Amazon, Google, Facebook and dozens of others.

sieabahlpark 7y ago

As I understand you have to Target EU citizens, having a box which states you exempt yourself is allowed. You just have to explain that it is their choice and if they choose to allow you they grant you permission. It just has to be an explicit agree.

Nursie 7y ago
IIRC you are explicitly not allowed to deny service if someone doesn't agree to tracking/targetting, so I'm not sure how that would fly.
- ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
  I believe you are correct, though I have no idea how it came to be. If I can't profit off serving you content without you consenting to the targeting (so that the ads will pay out more money), I should not be legally required to provide you content at a loss. I'm sure it wouldn't fly in the U.S, though I'm not sure what protections businesses have in the EU.
  - craigsmansion 7y ago
    > I should not be legally required to provide you content at a loss You aren't. In fact, you're forbidden to provide this content in the EU.
  - MereInterest 7y ago
    If your business model does not work when behaving ethically, perhaps that is a problem with the business model, rather than a problem with the ethics.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Ethics are irrelevant here. There's nothing unethical about ads. If you don't want to view ads in exchange for the content then you can pay for it or visit a different site.

manigandham 7y ago

No, and that part of the law is unenforceable anyway. You cant force companies to provide a service at cost to them.

Isn0gud 7y ago
But you can make certain ways how services are provided illegal. How is that not enforceable?
- manigandham 7y ago
  What's illegal about it? It's their service. If they don't want to provide it then they don't have to, including ads if necessary to offset costs. Your choice is to not use it. You can't demand it in whatever way you want if it costs them to serve you.
  - matthewmacleod 7y ago
    That is just blatantly not true. Companies can be, and frequently are, legally required to offer services that they otherwise wouldn't.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Name an example. You can't force a company to provide something at cost without any subsidy or provision in return.
      - matthewmacleod 7y ago
        Who said “at cost”? Universal service obligations worldwide. Anti-discrimination laws. Mandatory customer warranties. Regulatory standards. The whole world is replete with examples where regulation places restrictions on goods and services, and the conditions under which they can be offered. It is absolutely feasible to disallow mandatory data collection for services. I am honestly struggling to see what problem you can possibly be seeing with this.