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This seems likely to end up being ugly. For example wealthy people could buy or rent addresses in "adverse" neighborhoods, or charter schools might locate offic

This seems likely to end up being ugly. For example wealthy people could buy or rent addresses in "adverse" neighborhoods, or charter schools might locate offices there, in order to attempt to improve scores on this metric. At the same time this won't be able to identify many adverse life circumstances like abusive parents, cancer, etc. What it does do is outsource components of admissions decisions the colleges may want to distance themselves from and wrap it up in an opaque package so that they're not actually considering anything legally risky in their admissions decisions. This is potentially valuable to institutions that want to have affirmative action style admissions without risking the ire of state legislators.

aqme28 7y ago
That doesn't seem so terrible. More schools and property taxes in poor neighborhoods is an okay outcome as far as they go.
- JshWright 7y ago
  I think you're overestimating the taxes paid by a shell office (it's not uncommon for dozens/hundreds of organizations to use the same small office suite, staffed by a single receptionist). Fancy private school in expensive neighborhood registers their official address in a poor neighborhood, and calls the school in the 'nice' neighborhood a "satellite campus".
BooneJS 7y ago
There’s tales of Bay Area families renting and moving their HS juniors and seniors to the Central Valley where UC accepts a higher percentage from.
- neilv 7y ago
  I was talking to someone who's been involved in elite university admissions, and gaming for the city/neighborhood/HS has been a known tactic for a while. There's a related tactic for people in affluent suburbs, for getting their child into urban school districts with an especially well-regarded primary public school: buy a house or condo in the city, and try to make it look on your application like that's your primary residence.
  - chatmasta 7y ago
    At that point why not just send your kids to a private school?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - neilv 7y ago
      Many do, but some public schools are very well-regarded by parents, such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Latin_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Latin_School
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      Depending on where you live, the break-even point of doing this versus a private school can be under 2 kids (and is usually under 3 kids), so you save quite a bit of money.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      Money. Private schools can be $40K or more (after taxes) per child per year. You can get a lot of real estate for that money instead in a lot of markets.
remote_phone 7y ago
I already talked to my wife about this. I would retire, we would divorce, and I would rent a shitty apartment in East Palo Alto all the while living in our house. If they think they can boil my kids into a single number without bothering to find the context of who my kids are then I will game it to as much as possible. I don’t know why my family should be punished because my wife and I worked our asses off to get ahead. It’s an insult to hard working people across the spectrum.
- jachee 7y ago
  How is giving underprivileged people a leg up "punishing" anyone? Privileged people need to start recognizing their inherent pre-rigging of the system. For those in power, equality feels like oppression.
  - GhostVII 7y ago
    Admissions is generally a zero sum game, so whenever you help one group, you hurt everyone else who doesn't have that benefit.
    - jachee 7y ago
      Well, then every privileged person who gets in is "hurting" someone of lesser inherent opportunity. They can use that privilege to spread their applications around to increase their opportunities.
      - GhostVII 7y ago
        Sure, and every non-privileged person who gets in also hurts others who are in the same situation, since they have taken up a spot. The difference is in this case there is an actual policy which is actively punishing people for being in a perceived state of privilege.
        jachee 7y ago
        Punishing those in privilege is how you achieve equality. They can't give up that inequality voluntarily, and wouldn't if they could.
kaitai 7y ago
It always gets ugly. I had a (well-off, white) friend use another friend's address to get into the high school I went to. He ended up at Princeton so I guess it worked well for him. No one did anything about it. The case in 2011 where an Ohio woman (Kelley Williams-Bolar) was sentenced to a short jail sentence and 3 years probation and asked to pay $30000 to the school because she did the same thing has come up in the news again. She's black of course. There's that guy who paid $400,000 to get his kid into Georgetown as a tennis player who is now suing Georgetown 'cause they had the gall to expel his kid. It's all a matter of how much you can pay for a lawyer after your crime/gaming of the system.
- WillPostForFood 7y ago
  Felicity Huffman is going to go to jail for much longer than Kelley Williams-Bolar (9 days), even though she is rich, white, and has great lawyers.
  - kaitai 7y ago
    And there's been media discussion of why her husband hasn't been charged, despite being on the phone calls & verbally approving the crime!
    - mizzack 7y ago
      Talk about moving the goalposts...
waterhouse 7y ago
I guess that means it'll give the truly wealthy, who can afford such shenanigans, an advantage over the decently well off. Fascinating.
siruncledrew 7y ago
People using what they have to get their kids ahead is just called "Life". Why are nice neighborhoods more expensive than bad ones? Why are good school districts more competitive than bad ones? Why do parents go to great lengths to get their kids better opportunity? There will always be motivation to find the best ways to "play the system". Also, what actually shows if someone is a good student or not? A student with lower adversity could still have immense pressure if their family has sunk so much investment into their success. For example, there are Asian parents I knew that had their kids regimentally studying for the SAT since age 12 like they were practicing to become professional athletes. Their parents left their entire lives behind to come to America and work their way up for the sake of their kids getting into a good college then getting a good job.

aqme28 7y ago

That doesn't seem so terrible. More schools and property taxes in poor neighborhoods is an okay outcome as far as they go.

JshWright 7y ago
I think you're overestimating the taxes paid by a shell office (it's not uncommon for dozens/hundreds of organizations to use the same small office suite, staffed by a single receptionist). Fancy private school in expensive neighborhood registers their official address in a poor neighborhood, and calls the school in the 'nice' neighborhood a "satellite campus".

BooneJS 7y ago

There’s tales of Bay Area families renting and moving their HS juniors and seniors to the Central Valley where UC accepts a higher percentage from.

neilv 7y ago
I was talking to someone who's been involved in elite university admissions, and gaming for the city/neighborhood/HS has been a known tactic for a while. There's a related tactic for people in affluent suburbs, for getting their child into urban school districts with an especially well-regarded primary public school: buy a house or condo in the city, and try to make it look on your application like that's your primary residence.
- chatmasta 7y ago
  At that point why not just send your kids to a private school?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - neilv 7y ago
    Many do, but some public schools are very well-regarded by parents, such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Latin_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Latin_School
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    Depending on where you live, the break-even point of doing this versus a private school can be under 2 kids (and is usually under 3 kids), so you save quite a bit of money.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Money. Private schools can be $40K or more (after taxes) per child per year. You can get a lot of real estate for that money instead in a lot of markets.

remote_phone 7y ago

I already talked to my wife about this. I would retire, we would divorce, and I would rent a shitty apartment in East Palo Alto all the while living in our house. If they think they can boil my kids into a single number without bothering to find the context of who my kids are then I will game it to as much as possible. I don’t know why my family should be punished because my wife and I worked our asses off to get ahead. It’s an insult to hard working people across the spectrum.

jachee 7y ago
How is giving underprivileged people a leg up "punishing" anyone? Privileged people need to start recognizing their inherent pre-rigging of the system. For those in power, equality feels like oppression.
- GhostVII 7y ago
  Admissions is generally a zero sum game, so whenever you help one group, you hurt everyone else who doesn't have that benefit.
  - jachee 7y ago
    Well, then every privileged person who gets in is "hurting" someone of lesser inherent opportunity. They can use that privilege to spread their applications around to increase their opportunities.
    - GhostVII 7y ago
      Sure, and every non-privileged person who gets in also hurts others who are in the same situation, since they have taken up a spot. The difference is in this case there is an actual policy which is actively punishing people for being in a perceived state of privilege.
      - jachee 7y ago
        Punishing those in privilege is how you achieve equality. They can't give up that inequality voluntarily, and wouldn't if they could.

kaitai 7y ago

It always gets ugly. I had a (well-off, white) friend use another friend's address to get into the high school I went to. He ended up at Princeton so I guess it worked well for him. No one did anything about it. The case in 2011 where an Ohio woman (Kelley Williams-Bolar) was sentenced to a short jail sentence and 3 years probation and asked to pay $30000 to the school because she did the same thing has come up in the news again. She's black of course. There's that guy who paid $400,000 to get his kid into Georgetown as a tennis player who is now suing Georgetown 'cause they had the gall to expel his kid. It's all a matter of how much you can pay for a lawyer after your crime/gaming of the system.

WillPostForFood 7y ago
Felicity Huffman is going to go to jail for much longer than Kelley Williams-Bolar (9 days), even though she is rich, white, and has great lawyers.
- kaitai 7y ago
  And there's been media discussion of why her husband hasn't been charged, despite being on the phone calls & verbally approving the crime!
  - mizzack 7y ago
    Talk about moving the goalposts...

waterhouse 7y ago

I guess that means it'll give the truly wealthy, who can afford such shenanigans, an advantage over the decently well off. Fascinating.

siruncledrew 7y ago

People using what they have to get their kids ahead is just called "Life". Why are nice neighborhoods more expensive than bad ones? Why are good school districts more competitive than bad ones? Why do parents go to great lengths to get their kids better opportunity? There will always be motivation to find the best ways to "play the system". Also, what actually shows if someone is a good student or not? A student with lower adversity could still have immense pressure if their family has sunk so much investment into their success. For example, there are Asian parents I knew that had their kids regimentally studying for the SAT since age 12 like they were practicing to become professional athletes. Their parents left their entire lives behind to come to America and work their way up for the sake of their kids getting into a good college then getting a good job.