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U.S. blacklists Huawei
- fspeech 7y agoThis move “bans the company from acquiring components and technology from U.S. firms without government approval.”
- Despegar 7y agoI wonder if they have an alternative to Android.
- hungryhobo 7y agoApparently yes: https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/14/18265646/huawei-operating-systems-android-windows-ban https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/14/18265646/hua...
- ianai 7y agoThat’s really not enough. Doesn’t seem inline with the summary either.
- samfisher83 7y agoThey have their own chips. I don't think they have to be worried like ZTE.
- AFascistWorld 7y agoMobile SoCs are not the only chips in the world.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kabwj 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19923655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19923655
- fspeech 7y agoThat’s a separate action independent from this.
- mylons 7y agobanning them from buying components from the USA is going to encourage them to develop it themselves. stuff like this is how we lose our edge in tech, if we haven't lost it already.
- paulgrahamisfat 7y agoGood. They might learn a thing or two.
- guitarbill 7y agoCanada/Nortel might disagree with that somewhat...
- ZhuanXia 7y agoCanada is nice and all but China has a Japan-level quality of human capital and an enormous population. Anything we can do they will be able to do, and probably better. Absent crazy stuff like AGI or genetic engineering changing the source of innovation, China will become the leader in high technology.
- YUMad 7y agoChina does not have Japan-level human capital. Even if it did, the 'Japanese miracle' lasted for barely two decades.
- luckydata 7y agolol for comparing China to Japan. It's not a thing.
- guitarbill 7y agoI was referring to the infamous Nortel IP theft and other cases.
- downrightmike 7y agoAll countries need to push tech, but how long can they make the surge last? All populations are rapidly aging and they'll have no choice but to innovate and use their scarce human capital to engineer. If China doesn't do the 996 schedule or worse like Japan's, the smart people may go home enough to maybe have kids.
- Leary 7y agoIf this effectively bans Huawei from importing American chips.. Why no reactions after hours in American chipmaker stocks?
- ETHisso2017 7y agoMarket may expect this to be temporary?
- fspeech 7y agoThe implication of being put on the entity list is not yet clear. In 2016 ZTE was placed on the entity list but without an actual export ban. In 2018 the action against ZTE was much more severe.
- axaxs 7y agoGenuinely curious...but what chips? Huawei is pretty well vertically integrated, and has been for some time.
- superkuh 7y agoThe radio frequency IC chips like the tuner front ends and RF baseband. This process technology is not nearly so easy to copy and implement as regular digital elements on regular substrates. It's pretty important for mobile handsets. This is reflected in the way 5G is being rolled out in China. Mostly new sub-6GHz 5G NR modulation basestations are being put in. Millimeter band is not being attempted initially. This gets them 15-20% modulation gain in thoroughput over LTE in the same circumstances at most.
- baybal2 7y agoHuawei had own Rf backends and frontends for around 10 years...
- beatle_sauce 7y agoGallium nitride technology is used for the higher frequencies in 5G chips. Currently only suppliers outside of China produce such chips. From a business perspective, pushing 5G as fast as it is pushed now by China, does not make sense. Chinese network operators would not want to deploy 5G quite as fast as they are being forced to, but China’s government is imposing it. So why impose it? There might be several reasons, e.g. to have a dominant position in setting industry standards, but one reason stands out: The complex 5G standard requires frequent software that make it harder to enforce security software reviews and anti-espionage measures.
- mrkstu 7y agoIt will be interesting how the unintended consequences roll out with this. With Chinese companies already having Google free software/service stacks in China, being able to get adoption of those stacks internationally may allow the full bifurcation of the Android ecosystem, essentially eviscerating Google’s monopoly. Long term it could be a turning point to deflating American dominance of the most important market in the modern world.
- awt 7y agoI think it would be great if China accomplished some major software and hardware innovations.
- hugh4life 7y agoThing is, would you trust an appstore infrastructure based in China? If they had a more trustworthy 3rd party country like South Korea then they'd have a better shot. I kind of wish they'd embrace something like Firefox OS.
- lugg 7y ago> Would you trust appstore infrastructure in China? No less than how much I trust the five eyes we have right now. The only thing preventing me from using Chinese based stuff is the language barrier. And Firefox OS, why would they embrace something nobody else has?
- discordance 7y agoHow about China blocking the sale of Apple products... possible/probable?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- TomMarius 7y agoWasn't that the case up until just a few years ago?
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- thevagrant 7y agoDidn't they do this with ZTE also? As I recall the issue was resolved when ZTE paid a fine and promised to change board members and leadership? Could the same happen with Huawei?
- Smoosh 7y agoThere may have been extenuating circumstances in the ZTE case: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-zte-order-after-china-gave-millions-to-trump-organization-tied-project-2018-5/ https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-zte-order-after-chi...
- kabdib 7y agoI've got a Huawei laptop that's pretty nice . . . but I'm reluctant to use it for anything even remotely sensitive. Am I being overly paranoid? Or should I treat it as basically trustworthy as any other major brand of computer? The system requires a special app to update drivers and so forth, but frankly this is not additional security exposure, since Huawei bits are all over the machine to begin with. I'm sure y'all got opinions :-)
- omeid2 7y agoIn a post snowden world, why would you trust a 5E product anymore? Not saying that you should trust Chinese companies, but the notion that they're any worst by speculation in the face of evidence for the alternative's being complicate in spying on their users is rather absurd. People can't shake off the good-guy-bad-guy narrative, can they?
- ericd 7y agoDid Snowden reveal any revelations about the 5E engaging in industrial espionage against US companies on behalf of other US companies?
- adinobro 7y agoIt was a different leak BUT ... yes. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show_nsa_vs_france/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show...
- ETHisso2017 7y agoHuawei has a ton of repos on Github. What happens to them?
- a012 7y agoThey would lose access from China
- jorblumesea 7y agoNot really surprised, why would you allow US companies to build a network backbone using a company that has close ties with your strategic rival? Ren Zhengfei was in the PLA and the public private partnership operates very differently in China. As if the IP theft and espionage problems aren't bad enough. It's not a coincidence that many Chinese devices have "bugs" that have them phone home. Do you think China would allow their telecom companies to build out using Cisco gear?
- pishpash 7y agoPretty sure China used a lot of Cisco gear, including to implement the Great Firewall: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/ciscos-latest-attempt-dodge-responsibility-facilitating-human-rights-abuses-export https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/ciscos-latest-attempt-...
- jorblumesea 7y agoSure, after transferring their IP and source code ;) That's the game China is playing.
- Laforet 7y agoCisco did sie Huawei over the alleged violation of EIGRP patents. Other than that I couldn't name any single case of IP theft, can you?
- fencepost 7y agobarring U.S. companies from using telecommunications equipment made by firms posing a national security risk Huh. Did the US government just make my cell phone illegal to use? Replacement is on my list of things to do, but I wasn't really planning on it this month..... Not to mention basically every other option I could look at is also made in China, with the exception(?) of Samsung - which I'm not inclined to cough up the $$ for.
- mises 7y agoJust got a Galaxy J7 V 2 for less than $250. Does what I need it to, snappy, expandable storage, and an actual all-day battery life (probably day-and-a-half). I guess I don't understand why people want super-powered phones: just carry a decent laptop. It's not easy to make use of that much power in that small a form factor any way, particularly now that very few manufacturers allow bootloader unlocks and root. Also, people buy 8-core cpu, 8-gb-ram, 1440p screen phones and expect a long battery life? It's much easier to drive a reasonable processor, reasonable ram, and a 720p screen. I guess the market has different ideas. I get the "it's a slick piece of tech" factor, but can some one who likes flagships talk about what makes them good? For what it's worth, I consider the Samsung Galaxy S3 the pinnacle of smartphone design. It retailed for $250 at launch. I feel like prices are going up because the smartphone industry is trying to innovate faster than chips are improving.
- thrower123 7y agoNever had an S3, but I had an Aviator and an S5. I miss the swappable batteries on those models... On the other hand, I have an S8 now and it labors to render most websites. That's more an indictment of the websites, but such is the world we live in.
- fencepost 7y agoTry Firefox with ublock origin, see if that makes a difference. Since it's an AMOLED screen, "Dark Background and Light Text" may also make a difference for you.
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- supernintendo 7y agoThis might be an unpopular opinion but I'll post anyway. I'm skeptical of the motivation for this blacklist. Prohibiting the use of Huawei products by government agencies and contractors is an action one could reasonably justify in respect to national security. Mandating that my private company seek approval from the government before doing business with Huawei is a pretty extreme rule that limits my options on the global marketplace. I am now forced to accept the claim that Huawei devices are "tainted" and significantly more dangerous than other products. I'm having trouble accepting that argument or seeing this as anything more than trade war saber rattling. When I think of American companies that actually care about data privacy only a few come to mind. I do believe Apple makes a good faith effort toward protecting user data, despite the company's many anti-consumer practices. There are a number of smaller companies like Purism and Yubico that go further in making this a part of their core business strategy. But generally my experience has been that American companies give a backseat to these concerns. Remember when Equifax, an American company, leaked the personal data of 143 million U.S. citizens in 2017 [1]? What about the Citrix hack from just a few months ago where 6TB of sensitive information was stolen by Iranian hackers [2]? What makes these companies more trustworthy than Huawei or any other Chinese company? Finally, there's a line you can draw from the decisions of the past to what's happening today. The U.S. is largely responsible for the design of the modern web for both good and bad. The Internet is an amazing thing that has uplifted people around the world, including in developing countries where opportunities are needed [3] [4]. At the same time surveillance and proprietary software has become pedestrian to the point where most people (myself included) just accept it. We used Chinese manufacturing to scale this vision, from cheap Internet-connected devices to the servers that store and deliver our personal information. What kind of example did we set for China or other countries to follow? Where would we be had we followed the advice of people like Richard Stallman who warned us decades in advance? We seem to be moving toward a more isolated world as of late. I hope we can get to a point where we're having productive conversations on a global scale about how tech could make our lives better (and potentially worse). The alternative is to let the chips fall where they may. In a world of IoT, AI and autonomous weapons, that's not a game I'd like to play. [1] https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/07/technology/business/equifax-data-breach/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/07/technology/business/equifax... [2] https://www.techradar.com/news/hackers-steal-6tb-citrix-data-haul https://www.techradar.com/news/hackers-steal-6tb-citrix-data... [3] https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Articles/2015/July/How-Mobile-Phones-Are-Changing-the-Developing-Worl.aspx https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Articles/2015/July/How-Mobile... [4] https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000227436 https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000227436
- nimbius 7y agoSlightly better source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-trump-telecommunications/trump-order-clears-way-for-barring-huawei-from-u-s-telecommunications-networks-idUSKCN1SL2QX https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-trump-telecommu... seeing the reasoning includes violations against ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) its difficult to see how the US isnt creating some sort of whipping boy for its own agenda. Bluecoat, Intel, IBM, and hundreds of other companies have been accused of ITAR violations as well yet were not subjected to a 7 month long PR campaign from Washington to ablate them from the economic playing field. This feels like telco's flexing their close relationship to washington and pushing for a scorched-earth policy rather than be caught completely unprepared for 5G. "if we cant sell it, you cant have it" sounds rather less like a capitalist nation. it also bears remembering that none of their CEO's were detained in foreign airports and led to Jail to await US extradition.
- dreamcompiler 7y ago> 7 month long PR campaign While 5G may be a new front in this battle, US suspicion of Huawei goes back a long time -- at least as far back as the Bush administration. The current administration might be antagonistic toward China, but in no sense did they invent the war against Huawei.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- luckylion 7y agoThe suspicion might go back a long time, but the PR campaign is relatively new, at least at the current level. I do remember the occasional story a few years ago, but not this barrage of articles.
- bertomart 7y agoi don't watch tv anymore due to the excessive 'spin' and sometimes straight out lies. usually they start off by saying "allegedly" and by the time they're done you'd think it's one of Newton's laws of motion
- radmuzom 7y agoI find it interesting that the moderators were quick to remove the word Israel from the headline of the Whatsapp exploit article, but not China in this article.
- mirimir 7y agoThe US blacklisted Huawei because it's closely tied to the Chinese government. So it's arguably relevant. But regarding the Whatsapp exploit, the association with Israel is arguably less relevant. The company is closely tied to Israel, but the US has a far less adversarial relationship with Israel than with China. Edit: I was just stating the obvious, I guess. Doesn't mean that I agree with it, however. Just sayin'.
- Taniwha 7y agoWhich was essentially the point of the gp comment .... Israel gets special treatment in the US ... even when a spinoff from their secret service is caught hacking people's phones worldwide
- mirimir 7y agoNot really. The comment was about HN policy, not US policy. And yes, Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East. And is widely supported in the US. So of course they get lots of slack. There's little doubt that the NSA has some role in this, or is at least OK with it.
- Udik 7y ago> Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East Frankly, it looks like the opposite. The US are the primary Israel's proxy in the West. Israel is causing the US much more trouble than gain in the Middle East.
- mirimir 7y agoThat's implausible. Not impossible, I guess. But it's hard to see a mechanism. I don't pretend to know what US goals really are in the Middle East. Maybe nobody does. So assessing trouble vs gain is iffy at best.
- firstinstinct 7y agoPerhaps the reason is they think they will be left behind?
- ksec 7y agoI will just repost this article here from Tyler Cowen, I don't think I read anyone has said it better. >The U.S.-China Cold War Will Get Worse Before It Gets Better. That’s because the major issue between the two nations is not trade or ideology but a lack of trust. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-23/u-s-china-cold-war-will-get-worse-before-it-gets-better https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-23/u-s-ch...
- cnf 7y agoMeanwhile, it has been shown [1] that the NSA DOES in fact compromise cisco equipment. Huawei hardware has yet to be found to contain backdoors, but we should ban Huawei, but not Cisco? While compromised hardware from _ANY_ player worries me, I worry more about American hardware than I worry about Chinese hardware at this point in time... [1]: https://theintercept.com/2014/12/13/belgacom-hack-gchq-inside-story/ https://theintercept.com/2014/12/13/belgacom-hack-gchq-insid...
- sunstone 7y agoSo finally Canada is getting the support that they sought and deserve.